Cross-Counters  

Currently going for around 1.2-1.4 million on Ifrit.

Just a quick review for those below questioning CC. Yes, there is a very substantial amount of increase in DMG when using CC's vs. TM hooks+2. However, that only remains untill level 70+. As you get closer to 75 TMhooks and your Martial Arts traits make TM's start to pull ahead in raw DoT. But CC will always net the higher WS dmg. I used CC and moved right into destroyers, I only felt weaker parse-wise from 70->73 when against my WAR/nin static friend. (and 55->63 was difficult too, damn that rampage!)


As far as the new update goes, does anyone know where these drop now? Are they even available in the game anymore? Most likely the CC's moved to a BCNM/KSNM drop and the shadow only drops the Rare/ex version. I spoke with a thief out in fei'yin he's seen 2 pairs of the rare/ex version (retaliators) in 6 claims. So the drop rate isnt too bad, but then again, thats with TH2.

I just bought these little secksies yeseterday, down to 3.5M on Ifrit, they ARE worth the hype

you cant counter if the mob misses you

To the person who said that a Kraken club beats cross counters, I would like to kindly disagree, at least from a ballista point of view. If you tried to use a Kraken club against a monk with Cross Counters + Counterstance on, I think that plenty of your hits would come right back to your face.

I dunno I don't see how thier can be a debate on which set of knuckles is better, IMO Hands down Cross-counters take it. From a mathmatical standpoint atleast, think about it For every damage in cross-counters comes 5.05 delay(roughly) Meaning add 1 more damage to Cross-counters(19+1) and thier delay would still be(101.5) 11 delay shorter with the same damage as spartans, then take ino consideration the 1 more accuracy nad 5 counter. I may be wrong in looking at it that way but that makes me cme to the conclusion in my head Cross-counters are better. Please someone oppose me so Ihave more to think about^^?

Fukk it all get a spharai :D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

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im from caitsith and there is someone named BAstien on this server he is a dickwad @#%^ you i hate u go eat cheese @#%^ eat sh*t and die.

Lvl 30.. Berserk! Ochidos's Kote!
Lvl 40.. Jujistu-Gi!
Lvl 41.. Avenger's Earings x 2!
Lvl 50.. omg I hope these.
Lvl 61.. Carapace Armor & Helm..
Lvl 62.. Muscle Belt+1 Macro..

Oh and the Latent Effect: Counter + 2 ring is nice on swap.

And those cool boots! Kung-fu, Wulong, or Dune XD

Yeah, heh, dreams are nice ;)

P.S. I love every point of -evasion I have. It helps to get more Guard skil ups. I hope to someday cap Guard T-T

some one please settle this once and for all what is the difference, i see that Cross-counters are counterattack +5 and the avenger earrings are counter +1 so what is the difference or is there a difference? SE is confusing the hell out of me and i plan to buy these real soon so i would like to know for sure what both do? please help me out.

Edited, Thu Feb 3 04:26:14 2005

yes, this weapon decreases your Evasion...but the purpose is to increase the probability that your character will counter.

I have these, whenever I use counterstance I equip aikido kosh*ta and avengere earrings.. they work very well but the mob has to be atacking you for you to counter, that's why it's called counter. You counter a direct meele atack from a mob. These are badass for tanking vt crabs and sh*t like that

Not that I don't want them, it's just......../sigh
2million gil on Shiva. I've already pumped, let's see, over a million gil into my monk. All things considered, with what I've got and will get, I won't count myself too gimped without these. Probably just get Tact. Mag Hooks and hold out till Spartans, and keep those till I can get the Relic knuckles and upgrade those bad boys to Sphar-whatevers. Maybe Indra Katars too...

It is -10 evasion, and with good reason if you've read. I have countered multiple stray hits, i don't know if that qualifies the mob facing me or not. Combine these with Ochiudo's Kote (eva-5, attack+20) and say hello to some good times

Ok weve established that for counter to work you must be facing your opponent, these weapons rock if not just for the damage they put out, then for that plus counter rate and increased accuracy. Now something that is not addressed here that Im still interested in knowing how anyone (preferably a monk, would be nice to earn it with the job that would benefit most from it) is able to effectively hunt this monster (i.e. min xp level, in a alliance, party, solo? what jobs are reccomended for party tactics against this nm. what tactics do you use? etc.)

Its obvious some people have hunted this successfully, so there is a way to beat it, but it would be nice to know how and when to face it so you dont end up lying face down or up.

Plenty of posts about how great this weapon is. can we maybe come up with a plan on how to get this from the nm itself? dont know about you but even the best price listed on this (1.4 million recently) is still outrageous considering until then everything else can easily be quested (aka free) to outfit a monk effectively. if it wasnt for this one weapon monk could go through almost all of its levels effectively for less then 600k gil and thats including leveling its subjob (which actually would be the more exspensive of the two to keep equipped). Now I know that sounds insane to say but its true, at least for elvaan monks (who even storyline wise are the most common type of monk out there). RSE is easily quested and gets jeuno fame and will serve faithfully as armor until the forties (right around the time you get counterstance). Some weapons that help counterrate start becoming available than too (avenger earrings (125-145 k at ah, OR dropped by a level 46 nm morbol named anemone that spawns in the part of eldieme necropolis that skull of sloth, puroburos, and gazers spawn in at too), kampfer ring (goes for 2k at ah, though this one is latent effect, so only use in emergency), Since actual armor defense is useless when in countermode you are just working off of stat boosts given from your equip, and rse is still nice here too. Not necessarily the best but still nice (some extra hp, some plus agility, +10 dex, and for anyone who uses a subjob that uses mp (i.e. rdm, pally, drk, or whm) this also adds roughly 60 mp, which you would likely be using these subs more often soloing then in party). You might also start looking at brown belt and life belt around this time which yes are a notable 300k each roughly at the ah. But there is a quest for brown belt (which you need to do anyway if you ever want to have black belt) that requires just doing the purple belt quest in bastok (going rate for purple belt is bout 7k on my server) and 10 k worth of zinc ore to unlock the quest. While going after the nms for this you will easily make back the gil you spent to unlock the quest in the first place. Now for those after life belt, there is a strategy given elsewhere on this website as to getting that for free also. Thus you are easily able to make it into the fifties for the amount of gil it took to get you to the low thirties. Once you get into the fifties your af gear starts becoming available in full, and the ONLY way to get that is to have it quested for in the first place. Once you get full af the possibility of taking a hit normally again reenters the realm of the possible, though by then, if you bothered using counterstance at all since you got it, you will probably be addicted to how it helps you put a target down faster while avoiding a notable amount of damage (even with only one earring you still get a nice counterrate, just be careful with it on iceday and darksday (still checking to see if the moon has any effects on this power)). Since the af also adds to counter and has incredible boosts and enhance effects, you can switch between countermode and non-countermode as the situation dictates, as this gear will help on that either way. Since af gear is quested only, most gil you will have spent by this point is more for your sub job then your main job (maybe 50 k tops on main for stealth items if using a sub that doesnt have it available, and those subs do cost more to maintain, are less durable, and usually dont hit as hard in the first place). Other than that crosscounters remains among or the best weapon a monk can have until they are in the seventies, and the only one that is outrageously priced out of all the equipment that is available thats even mentioned here if you arent willing to quest for the stuff. Until those are actually available most monks buy a set of tactical magician hooks (20 k gil there, or buyable from conquest points if you bother with missions for rank at all and your country is doing well), so still quite cheap but also still effective, just pales to what monks with crosscounters can do. Beyond that there is other gear that are possible upgrades. but they too are mostly quested if you are after them at all.

As is, at the time of this posting I am a level 55 monk and have hunted down the anemone twice (though its not a perfect drop rate, so if you can track it bring a thief friend along too), completed the brownbelt quest, all rse, and all af quests except the leg af armor one, which requires targeting a monster thats on par with the western shadow for strength. If possible I hope to convince those that help with that leg af nm battle to help face western shadow once I can track down the timing of its spawn in. Which brings us back to my original question.

Again, any helpful hints and tips on strategies for western shadow (which drops these crosscounters)? It would be great to know this info before facing it and not lying face up later.

(total price for equipping a monk if going by ah 789k gil if skipping crosscounters, 2,189k if not skipping but buying everything from ah, 1.4 million if you quest your gear except crosscounters, free if you get get the drops and quest done for it all)


Edited, Fri Sep 3 11:28:16 2004

Edited, Wed Aug 18 13:30:39 2004

I dunno, 1 less damage than the Spartan Cesti doesn't seem like something I'd miss.

But sheesh, I'd pair this with Counterstance, and anything else that can increase my Counter and lower my Evasion. If there was more equipment like this, Monks could go back to backup tanks! Just get some really high DEF armor (scarce for us), and you're set...

I like the spartans more for PT's... these would rock solo though.