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Passive Ability details for Dual Wield IV  

Jobs/Level:Dancer, lvl 80
Ninja, lvl 65
MP cost:0
Element:None
Duration:N/A
Reuse:Instant
Cast time:Instant
Target Type:Single
Description:Allows you to equip two weapons. Delay of both weapons reduced by 30%

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sarashi
# Aug 07 2006 at 9:33 AM Rating: Decent
yea the sarashi thing only works with /nin sorry know its kinda really late and already been posted
Delay Calculation
# Aug 01 2006 at 2:48 PM Rating: Decent
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308 posts
Quote:
198 would = "ALMOST" every 2 seconds you attack. now we did add in haste. lol it gets better i have already proven 2 things wrong (dual weild 7 NOT being 60%) and (after dual weild 7 NOT attacking NON-STOP) now. some people might say oh yeah add haste. well hmm lets do some math WHM haste is estimated at 5% haste. 198 x .5 = 99 WOW all of the sudden all the ninja needs is a WHM haste and the rest attack gear you now have a (HUNDRED FISTING) NIN that hits PRETTY DAMN HARD. but lets say you dont have a WHM to rely on EASILY add panther helm, and quick belt = 4% haste, most ninja's have Fuma Sune-Ate = 7% TOTAL with the 3 of those items, at the minumum cost you now have a 100 fisting NIN but by a CLOSE CALL.


Even though it's a few months later I'd like to point out that if WHM haste is 5% (and personally I've seen the spell haste to be about 12% using hand timing so +-2%) then you'd not use:

198 X .5 = 99 <--- Would be 50% haste (aka the max for haste from gear and spells)

198 X .05 = 188 <--- 5% so a reduction of only 10 delay (maybe 9 depending on base and rounding)

The 50% haste cap can be reached through 25% haste from spells (march X2 and any cast of haste from whm, rdm, or -ga haste from smn) and 25% from gear (pieces that I know are Turban, Dusk pieces, speed or quick belts, fuma, and latent earrings).
Dual Weild 7 Hundred Fists?
# Apr 20 2006 at 6:23 AM Rating: Decent
Dual Weild 1 = 0% taken away
Dual Weild 2 = -15% taken away
Dual Weild 3 = -25% taken away
Dual Weild 4 = -30% taken awayDual

from above i have taken note that -1/2 off each dual weild. after that being said i did some math

Dual Weild 1 = 0% taken away
Dual Weild 2 = -15% taken away
Dual Weild 3 = -25% taken away
Dual Weild 4 = -30% taken away
Dual Weild 5 = -32.5% taken away
Dual Weild 6 = -33.75% taken away
Dual Weild 7 = -34.475% taken away

:: TAKE NOTE ::
SE ROUNDS OFF EVERY SINGLE THING SO I AM DOING THE SAME, .5 being rounded high .4 and under being rounded low. that would make the new list as followed.

Dual Weild 1 = 0% taken away
Dual Weild 2 = -15% taken away
Dual Weild 3 = -25% taken away
Dual Weild 4 = -30% taken away
Dual Weild 5 = -33% taken away
Dual Weild 6 = -34% taken away
Dual Weild 7 = -34% taken away

right there would make dual weild 7 USELESS seeing as 6 >> 7 you get same % taken away and even dual weild 6 being not needed gaining 1% off 5 (human eye can see 1%.

that being said dual weild 6 would only benefit on a ninja using an Elemental Staff,

now back to the point using 2x 150 delay daggers = 300 delay - 34% (dual weild 6 or 7) = 198 delay, after that being said! lol this gets goooood
(HUNDRED FISTS WOULD = ANYTHING UNDER 100 DELAY) aka. attack every 1 second. 198 would = "ALMOST" every 2 seconds you attack. now we did add in haste. lol it gets better i have already proven 2 things wrong (dual weild 7 NOT being 60%) and (after dual weild 7 NOT attacking NON-STOP) now. some people might say oh yeah add haste. well hmm lets do some math WHM haste is estimated at 5% haste. 198 x .5 = 99 WOW all of the sudden all the ninja needs is a WHM haste and the rest attack gear you now have a (HUNDRED FISTING) NIN that hits PRETTY DAMN HARD. but lets say you dont have a WHM to rely on EASILY add panther helm, and quick belt = 4% haste, most ninja's have Fuma Sune-Ate = 7% TOTAL with the 3 of those items, at the minumum cost you now have a 100 fisting NIN but by a CLOSE CALL.



AFTER ALL THAT SAID, me and a buddy went out and decided to test dual weild 7. our conclusion comes to this. the NIN in fact "DID NOT" attack every 1 second. he was stuck it seemed at 2 second attacks?? we had no explanation for this. could there possibly be a cap on delay? i have no idea but from the looks of what we did, THERE IS. We think that Animations make Delay timer stop totaly meaning when you attack the delay timer doesnt start until animation is over making cap approx. 2.0 - 2.2 delay = 200 - 220 delay, in exeption for (Hundred Fist) (MNK 2 hour).

we then tested all sorts of haste

WHM Haste = 5% ESTIMATE
Fuma Sune-Ate = 3%
Panther Mask = 2%
Quick Belt = 6%

but we came to a conclusion after what we saw that all that extra haste is a goody for -recast timer and nothing more because you cannot attack every .5 seconds.



Dual Weild 7 Hundred Fists?
# Oct 06 2007 at 2:28 PM Rating: Decent
Danieruu wrote:
Dual Weild 1 = 0% taken away
WHM haste is estimated at 5% haste. 198 x .5 = 99

5% haste would be .05, NOT .5. .5 would be 50% haste.
RE: Dual Weild 7 Hundred Fists?
# May 29 2006 at 12:18 PM Rating: Decent
Err whm is about 10% haste, with a quick belt on my thf ichi is a 29 second recast instead of the original 30 when a whm friend cast haste on me ichi went to 24 seconds, and i tested over and over and over, now this is all with recast timers on nin main or /nin havent tested duel wield yet not till 25, but i can assure you whm haste is indeed 10% every 2% haste takes 1 sec of the recast timer(s). Anyways hope its helpful.

Edited, Mon May 29 12:10:29 2006
hmmm
# Jul 03 2005 at 6:20 AM Rating: Decent
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371 posts
Its 30% decrease in delay. It does not stack with past Dual Wields. It is how it comes.

is it possiable to get past 4
# Apr 03 2005 at 9:05 PM Rating: Decent
Is it possable to get it past dual wield 4 with ur af armor, sharashi, shaporomi. would that make it dual wield 7.
RE: is it possiable to get past 4
# Jan 11 2006 at 11:19 PM Rating: Good
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570 posts
Close. AF Body, AFv2 Legs (I believe that's it) and Suppanomimi will get you about Dual Wield VII. Sarashi only activates when your subjob is Nin.
Delay
# Feb 25 2005 at 7:33 PM Rating: Default
"Delay of both weapons reduced by 30%"

So basically your total delay is reduced by 60%, and since Katanas delay is so low in the first place it puts it down probably to around 100 or so, meaning you alot, which makes up for the fact Katanas have such low Dmg.
RE: Delay
# Mar 29 2005 at 7:45 PM Rating: Default
No they are saying delat of both weapns added up.
So if you have like two 200 delay weapons. Then you would have 400 delay total. Multiply that by .3. You get like 120. You subtract 400 by 120 and get 280. 280 is your new delay. :)
Duel wield
# Jun 20 2004 at 4:34 AM Rating: Decent
Isn't it just duel wield one = no percent increase faster, duel wield two = 15% faster, duel wield 3 = 25% faster, duel wield 4 = 30% faster
LMAO
# Mar 02 2004 at 5:10 PM Rating: Decent
Nice Math man!!!! though i was able to understand what you meant it seemsd more complicated than it really is =P


Lvl 37 Ninja
Jessy Ifrit Server
Credible: yes? No?
# Feb 29 2004 at 2:48 AM Rating: Default
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205 posts
Just wanting to know the credibility of the "reduced by 70%" cuz I have seen many other "theories" on the delay reduction.

thnx
RE: Credible: yes? No?
# Mar 01 2004 at 11:40 PM Rating: Decent
Sorry. It appears i posted twice :/
Steven
RE: Credible: yes? No?
# Mar 01 2004 at 11:39 PM Rating: Decent
There is no possibility that it's 70%, because think about that for a second, that nearly doubles your attack speed. The speed its reduced by is 30%, however because your original speed was firtly reduced by 15%, then that percentage is reduced by 25%, that is equivalent to 85%, or .85 * .75(or 75 percent), which is equivalent to 100%-63.75%=36.25% of the original delay is removed. However, after this, your current delay is lowered by 30%, or 1-.30=.7 *(1-.2125)=0.55125 which equals 100%-55.125% = 44.875% off of the Dual Wielding weapons delay at lvl four. In essence 15+25+30=60, however the percentage by which the delay is reduced is the already reduced speed. Hope this helps.
Steven
RE: Credible: yes? No?
# Jul 08 2004 at 9:33 AM Rating: Decent
15+25+30=70, and not 60..
RE: Credible: yes? No?
# Mar 01 2004 at 11:39 PM Rating: Decent
There is no possibility that it's 70%, because think about that for a second, that nearly doubles your attack speed. The speed its reduced by is 30%, however because your original speed was firtly reduced by 15%, then that percentage is reduced by 25%, that is equivalent to 85%, or .85 * .75(or 75 percent), which is equivalent to 100%-63.75%=36.25% of the original delay is removed. However, after this, your current delay is lowered by 30%, or 1-.30=.7 *(1-.2125)=0.55125 which equals 100%-55.125% = 44.875% off of the Dual Wielding weapons delay at lvl four. In essence 15+25+30=60, however the percentage by which the delay is reduced is the already reduced speed. Hope this helps.
Steven
RE: Credible: yes? No?
# Mar 02 2004 at 12:09 AM Rating: Default
This ability is an "upgrade" to "Duel Wield III" and replaces it's effect. Similar to Clear Mind 1-5, Clear Mind 2 replaces Clear Mind 1, Clear Mind 3 replaces Clear Mind 2, etc. Duel Wield 4 replaces Duel Wield 3, so saying that it's the sum of all effects would be incorrect. 70% seems a bit too optimistic, and 30% seems a bit too low. We won't know for sure until someone levels a ninja 1-75 and calculates their delay at each "upgrade level".
RE: Credible: yes? No?
# Mar 02 2004 at 12:33 AM Rating: Excellent
If you look in the post above i did calculate it, its 44.875% delay off of the original dual wield delay.
Steven
Eragon
36 DRG/18 WAR
Lakshmi
RE: Credible: yes? No?
# Mar 31 2006 at 7:42 PM Rating: Decent
the math is--- 30%
it might not even be exactly 30% but its not 70%--

PLD 75/nin Dual wield 2x company swords-- that is what yunnie used when she PT'd with a nin for moon- and then later sky

Nin 75/war typical scorp harness ohat nin...

he attacked at a simillar attack speed (keep in mind his weapons already have a fast delay...)

its hard to notice until after the 6th attack set

--also off-topic:
smallerdmg/faster weapons benifit less from haste than heavydmg/slower weapons--
--why?
1) every time you hit a monster, dmg is reduced by the monsters corrisponding VIT/def and dmg midigation... hits reduced to 0 dmg = 0 TP.
2) fast weapons generate TP fast if they hit for dmg- this is true! but it also gives the monster TP fast, and monster TP attacks- especially AoE hits- or aoe stun hits
3) WS attacks (usually) use the Base weapon DMG + mods to determine DMG. (this is not the case with some WS- spirits within for instance)

not saying fast weapons arent good- because getting lots of crits is nice!-- and getting TP is nice for making SC and MB-- just saying that the weapons themselves get less benifit from the haste
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