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Lv 3 SkillchainsFollow

#1 Aug 31 2004 at 4:49 PM Rating: Decent
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Can any tell me how to link a level 2 skillchain to a level 3? I tried reading over Aden's Renkei Chart, but I just don't understand it.

I am not a premium member or I would have tried the search function. As it is I went through the last 50-60 pages trying to find info on it but I didn't see anything.

Any help would be appreciated,

Thank you

Ps: What are some good skillchains that end in a Lv: 3? Yet again thanks in advance for any help that you may offer.

Edited, Tue Aug 31 17:56:26 2004 by Keseneth
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#2 Aug 31 2004 at 4:56 PM Rating: Good
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You need someone who have a 225+ weaponskill that can do a Darkness or Light skillchain. When it use the appropiate WS after a level 2 weaponskill, it'll become darkness or light (lvl 3).


Alternatively, if you have two people who have a 225+ weapson, you can creat level 3 SC with the correct order of those two.
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#3 Aug 31 2004 at 5:02 PM Rating: Excellent
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Well that depends just what you mean by chaining L2 to L3 Renkei. If you are trying to cause an L2 Renkei followed by an L3 Renkei, well, you have to first generate the L2 Renkei in question. This can be done by using a pair of low level (below 225) Weaponskills, or by using a pair of 225+ Weaponskills.

For example, Red Lotus Blade > Combo creates the L2 Renkei of Fusion. If someone then used, for example, Dragon Kick (which has the attribute of Fragmentation), the sequence of Fusion, Fragmentation would cause L3 Light.

If you want to keep 'em high, however, you can do it with all 225+ Weaponskills. Tachi: Gekko > Wheeling Thrust, for example, also makes L2 Fusion. From there, again, you can chain Dragon Kick to it to create L3 Light by causing Fusion, Fragmentation.

But it is not necessary to first CAUSE the L2 Renkei in order to generate the L3 Renkei. Simply using Wheeling Thrust > Dragon Kick would produce the L3 Light Renkei, for example.

I am trying to answer your question as best I can without being certain what the question is. Simply put, you perform a second L2 Renkei after the first L2 Renkei, and it generates an L3 Renkei instead.

Fusion > Fragmentation = L3 Light
Fragmentation > Fusion = L3 Light

Distortion > Gravitation = L3 Darkness
Gravitation > Distortion = L3 Darkness

The trick is knowing that some L2 Weaponskills Renkei to OTHER L2 Weaponskills without creating an L3 Renkei. My first attempt to illustrate this was poor, by my own admittance. But as I have just updated the chart to make L2/L3 clearer, that might help. If I didn't answer your question, please clarify it and I will take another crack at it.
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#4 Aug 31 2004 at 5:03 PM Rating: Good
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I'm interested too, (just getting to the levels where L3s are happening, but as I don't hit stuff, I haven't seen a good explanation..)

So the two ways are
1) Perform the appropriate 225 WS after a level 2 WS (as per Aden's Chart)
2) Perform two 225 WS (that join?)

I have heard of the second...but I hadn't seen a chart of them...

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#5 Aug 31 2004 at 5:07 PM Rating: Excellent
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Blowy wrote:
Perform two 225 WS (that join?)


Exactly. Look at the L3 Renkei area in the top right hand corner. See how it is divided up into 4 groups? The top two groups combine to form L3 Light, the bottom two combine to form L3 Darkness. If you Renkei one from each of the top groups, or one from each of the bottom groups, you will get the L3 Renkei. That's what the bi-directional arrows with Light and Darkness are there to indicate.

Also, it sounds to me as if you might be using a very old version of my chart, from how you described it. Click the link in my signature and check out the new one. It's got TONS of corrections. ^^

Edited, Tue Aug 31 18:08:25 2004 by adennak
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#6 Aug 31 2004 at 5:20 PM Rating: Good
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Yep, I was using an old version...the new one is much clearer on the L3s

I still can't see any way to perform two L2s in a row though, and am still a bit confused about the elements. After a L2, do the top two boxes (starting with Black Halo and Mistral Axe) cause light chains, and the bottom 2 boxes (starting with Asuran Fists and Full Break) cause Dark Chains?
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#7 Aug 31 2004 at 5:24 PM Rating: Excellent
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In the L3 section, if you perform a Renkei on one of the horizontal arrows, you will get an L3, as noted along the arrow. However, the verticle and diagonal arrows indicate L2 > L2 Renkeis.

Tachi: Gekko > Wheeling Thrust, for example, makes Fusion. You could in theory bounce around the L2 Renkeis and never hit an L3 Renkei at all. Those arrows, however, are one-way. However, if you go from an L2 Renkei into an L3 Renkei, the chain ends:

Tachi: Gekko > Wheeling Thurst = Fusion > Dragon Kick = L3 Light
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#8 Aug 31 2004 at 5:28 PM Rating: Good
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a good pdf where all the combinations between the ws's is listed is this one:

http://web.green.ch/psychonator/wse.pdf
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#9 Aug 31 2004 at 5:30 PM Rating: Good
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OK, I see that now...

One more quick question, Magic Bursts for the Light and Dark L3s. Which elements are associated with Light (Thunder, Wind, Fire?) and which with Dark (Earth, Ice, Water?)


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"I keep getting annoyed that I damage slowly for small damage, and my WS feely sucky." RDM mellee in a nutshell!
#10 Aug 31 2004 at 6:26 PM Rating: Excellent
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Blowy wrote:
OK, I see that now...

One more quick question, Magic Bursts for the Light and Dark L3s. Which elements are associated with Light (Thunder, Wind, Fire?) and which with Dark (Earth, Ice, Water?)


L3 Light is Fusion (Fire & Light) plus Fragmentation (Thunder & Wind).

L3 Darkness is Distortion (Ice & Water) plus Gravitation (Earth & Dark).

So the combining elements are what make up L3 Light and L3 Darkness.
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#11 Aug 31 2004 at 6:39 PM Rating: Decent
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Ummm... it's possible to do a level 4 skillchain!! Here's what my party was doing last night (and it worked, too!).

Combo --> Burning blade/Red lotus blade --> Blade: retsu --> Raging Axe --> Aero (off the blm or rdm) for the burst

We were a lvl 18 party killing IT Pugils in Valkurm in one chain!! ^^ If you have a relatively compotent black mage, it might even be able to burst fire off the burning/red lotus, then burst aero after the raging axe!! :)
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#12 Aug 31 2004 at 7:10 PM Rating: Decent
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#13 Aug 31 2004 at 8:59 PM Rating: Excellent
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zanzibari wrote:
Ummm... it's possible to do a level 4 skillchain!! Here's what my party was doing last night (and it worked, too!).

Combo --> Burning blade/Red lotus blade --> Blade: retsu --> Raging Axe --> Aero (off the blm or rdm) for the burst

We were a lvl 18 party killing IT Pugils in Valkurm in one chain!! ^^ If you have a relatively compotent black mage, it might even be able to burst fire off the burning/red lotus, then burst aero after the raging axe!! :)

Ok, I'll bite. It's an understandable mistake but still funny.

What you are describing is simply 4 Lv.1 Skillchains. Lv.2 and Lv.3 skillchains are significantly different. Fusion (Liquefaction > Impaction skills) is a Lv.2 skillchain and has the properties of both Fire and Light. The other 3 Lv.2s are: Fragmentation, Gravitation, and Distortion, each having 2 elemental properties.

There are only 2 Lv.3 chains (Light and Dark), and can only be accomplished by Lv.65+ Weapon Skills. These are impressively large explosions which have 4 elemental properties each and have the cability of dealing 200% damage of the last WS (Lv.2s have a 100% damage cap and Lv.1s have a 75% damage cap)
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#14 Aug 31 2004 at 9:20 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Ummm... it's possible to do a level 4 skillchain!! Here's what my party was doing last night (and it worked, too!).

Combo --> Burning blade/Red lotus blade --> Blade: retsu --> Raging Axe --> Aero (off the blm or rdm) for the burst

We were a lvl 18 party killing IT Pugils in Valkurm in one chain!! ^^ If you have a relatively compotent black mage, it might even be able to burst fire off the burning/red lotus, then burst aero after the raging axe!! :)



its ok, i know you are just a newbie, you'll learn from your mistakes from those contaminated stupid nOOb infos.


i don't see whats the point of SC, everytime i bring it up, the blm doesn't wanna MB and some ppl don't wanna bother and say, "the dmg stinks".

Edited, Tue Aug 31 22:21:20 2004 by agoodguy
#15 Aug 31 2004 at 10:15 PM Rating: Decent
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The Renkei chart I use. I find it easier to read than the others

http://www.destinyseekers.net/images/renki4.jpg
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#16 Aug 31 2004 at 10:31 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
its ok, i know you are just a newbie, you'll learn from your mistakes from those contaminated stupid nOOb infos.

i don't see whats the point of SC, everytime i bring it up, the blm doesn't wanna MB and some ppl don't wanna bother and say, "the dmg stinks".

Intended Irony?
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"I keep getting annoyed that I damage slowly for small damage, and my WS feely sucky." RDM mellee in a nutshell!
#17 Sep 01 2004 at 12:21 AM Rating: Decent
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Can anyone confirm one way or the other that a four-WS chain that goes lv2-(nothing or lv1)-lv2 makes for a lv3 SC?

If it does, it'd definitely be useful to train low-level people how to do this; if it doesn't, oh well :-)

(Likewise, is it possible to chain lv225+ WSes in an order that goes Light, nothing, Dark quickly enough to get a lv4 SC that anything will successfully burst off of?)
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#18 Sep 01 2004 at 12:57 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Can anyone confirm one way or the other that a four-WS chain that goes lv2-(nothing or lv1)-lv2 makes for a lv3 SC?
I'm not sure I'm understanding what your asking, but I don't think you can go back to a L1 after doing a L2. Four WSs in a row doesn't make a Lv3 renkei...

I'm not sure what you're asking though...and I'm not sure what you mean by a "nothing" WS...
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"For future reference, anything as big as a house tends to aggro." Caia.
"I keep getting annoyed that I damage slowly for small damage, and my WS feely sucky." RDM mellee in a nutshell!
#19 Sep 01 2004 at 1:06 AM Rating: Decent
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Blowy wrote:
Quote:
Can anyone confirm one way or the other that a four-WS chain that goes lv2-(nothing or lv1)-lv2 makes for a lv3 SC?
I'm not sure I'm understanding what your asking, but I don't think you can go back to a L1 after doing a L2. Four WSs in a row doesn't make a Lv3 renkei...

I'm not sure what you're asking though...and I'm not sure what you mean by a "nothing" WS...


Okay, lemme give the situation I tried (in Qufim, twice):

SC was Gust Slash -> One Inch Punch -> Blade: Rin -> Blade: Retsu (IIRC).

First time we get Gravitation, Transfixion, nothing. (Therefore, you can go L2, L1.) Blade: Retsu was somewhat late, and so didn't chain.

Second time I jumped the gun with One Inch Punch and I think all we got was the Distortion at the end.

My question is, is it possible to time this series of four WSes so it goes Gravitation, Transfixion, Dark?

(The other low-level series would be, for example:

Burning Blade -> Shining Strike (Fusion) -> Smash Axe (nothing) -> Shoulder Tackle (normally, Fragmentation; theoretically, Light)

and this could be done at somewhat lower levels. The low-level Dark chain requires lv24+, while the low-level Light chain only requires lv13+.)
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#20 Sep 01 2004 at 3:30 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Blowy wrote:


Quote:

Can anyone confirm one way or the other that a four-WS chain that goes lv2-(nothing or lv1)-lv2 makes for a lv3 SC?


I'm not sure I'm understanding what your asking, but I don't think you can go back to a L1 after doing a L2. Four WSs in a row doesn't make a Lv3 renkei...

I'm not sure what you're asking though...and I'm not sure what you mean by a "nothing" WS...




Okay, lemme give the situation I tried (in Qufim, twice):

SC was Gust Slash -> One Inch Punch -> Blade: Rin -> Blade: Retsu (IIRC).

First time we get Gravitation, Transfixion, nothing. (Therefore, you can go L2, L1.) Blade: Retsu was somewhat late, and so didn't chain.

Second time I jumped the gun with One Inch Punch and I think all we got was the Distortion at the end.

My question is, is it possible to time this series of four WSes so it goes Gravitation, Transfixion, Dark?

(The other low-level series would be, for example:

Burning Blade -> Shining Strike (Fusion) -> Smash Axe (nothing) -> Shoulder Tackle (normally, Fragmentation; theoretically, Light)

and this could be done at somewhat lower levels. The low-level Dark chain requires lv24+, while the low-level Light chain only requires lv13+.)



Let me clear this up by repeating what I said within a few minutes of the initial post... You need someone with a level 225 weapon skill to perform a darkness or light renkei. You CANNOT perform a Lvl 3 skillchain unless you have a level 66+ melee job with the appropiate high level weapon skill.

The reason I didn't say more, trying to explain the logic is because... people will be confused. Just like they are now >.<

Edited, Wed Sep 1 04:31:43 2004 by uclapaul
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#21 Sep 01 2004 at 4:21 AM Rating: Good
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Just incase people are still confused...

A Lv 1 Skillchain is a SC resulting in an effect with 1 element.

The Lv 1 Skillchain effects are: Transfixion (light), Impaction (lightning), Compression (dark), Reverbation (water), Liquefaction (fire), Detonation (wind), Scission (earth), and Induration (ice). There are 8 in all.


A Lv 2 SC is a SC resulting in an effect with 2 elements.

The Lv 2 Skillchain effects are Fusion (light and fire), Fragmentation (lightning and wind), Gravitation (dark and earth), and Distortion (water and ice).


There are two Lv 3 SC that can only be done with a 225+ WS.

The Lv 3 effects are Light and Dark. Light is the elemental combination of Fusion and Fragmentation (Fire & Light + Thunder & Wind). Dark is the combination of Gravitation and Distortion (Dark & Earth + Water & Ice). You can MB with any of the 4 elements.

Doing 4 WS in a Row DOES NOT make a Lv 4 Skillchain. There is no such thing as a Lv 4.



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#22 Sep 01 2004 at 4:21 AM Rating: Excellent
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*Long overly thought-out post. I'm going to attempt to explain what Uclapaul started on. Only read if you have a lot of patience. ^^

MDenhan wrote:
First time we get Gravitation, Transfixion, nothing. (Therefore, you can go L2, L1.)


Sorry, that didn't happen. Double check the log to make sure another WS wasn't added or missed somewhere in there. You cannot go to a "lower" level chain from a "higher" one. I see the mistake you're making though, and that is the reason I always promote the Skillchain chart Psymia posted a little earlier.

Everyone knows that the skillchain you make depends on the second (or third, fourth, etc.) WS you use. Right? However, figuring out the property of a specific WS by looking at what skillchain it makes only works for Lv.1s.

For instance:
Fast Blade (Scission) > Red Lotus Blade (Liquefaction/Detonation) = Liquefaction
Penta Thrust (Compression) > Tachi:Enpi (Transfixion/Scission) = Transfixion

With Lv.2s it becomes a bit more complicated (or simpler depending on how you look at it). Take the following simple Lv.2 chain for example:
Burning Blade > Combo = Fusion
Just by looking at that, you'd assume that since Combo ends the chain, it must be a Fusion skill. In reality, it's actually an Impaction skill.

Liquefaction > Impaction = Fusion
Transfixion > Scission = Distortion
Detonation > Compression = Gravitation
Induration > Reverberation = Fragmentation

So to be truly versatile and understand how skillchains work, you need to know more than just WS1 + WS2 = Skillchain. You need to know the underlying property associated with each WS.

Combo = Impaction
Fast Blade = Scission
Double Thrust = Transfixion
etc, etc.

Lv.3s are only possible with the 225 WSs (220 for Hexa Strike) because those skills already inherently start off with a Lv.2 property, and to make a Lv.3 you need to chain 2 Lv.2s together. Here are a few examples of the 225WSs and their properties.

Swift Blade = Gravitation
Hexa Strike = Fusion
Full Break = Distortion
Shark Bite = Fragmentation

One Lv.3 chain is Fusion > Fragmentation = Light. So to make this, you first need to start with a Fusion SC. This can be acomplished two ways.

1. Burning Blade (Liquefaction) > Combo (Impaction) = Fusion
or
2. Just start with Hexa Strike (has the Fusion property naturally)

You then, according to the formula above, need to follow with a Fragmentation WS. So following that Fusion with either Dragon Kick, Shark Bite, or Spin Slash will result in the Lv.3 Light chain.

Lv.3s are the best you can do. You cannot chain multiple Lv.3 together. You cannot do a Lv.2 after a Lv.3. Lv.3s have the potential to up to 200% of the damage dealt by the last WS used. (All skillchain damage is based on the damage of the WS used to create it). I've seen a Lv.3 do 60 dmg, and I've seen it do 1,500+. It all depends on the damage of the last WS.

I know this might confuse some people more, but hopefully it will help a few others out there. If you can look at the SC chart I was referring to earlier (Oh hell, I'll just repaste the link. Credit to Psymia. http://web.green.ch/psychonator/wse.pdf ) I think things will make a little more sense. If you are still confused just let me know and I'll try to explain any part piece by piece. It will help to know exactly what part people are confused on.
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#23 Sep 01 2004 at 4:28 AM Rating: Good
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I will try to simplify some WS information since me and my friend do level 3 renkei all the time as mnk and whm.

The 225 WS alone has already got a Level 2 skill chain effect. For instance. Lets take the Hexa strike of whm. That weapon skill alone has the effect of Fusion, which is normaly formed using 2 level 1 renkei which are Liquification and Impaction. Light skill chain can be made with Fusion > Fragmentation or vice versa, Fragmentation > Fusion.

To clarify, you have to chain a level 2 element with a level 2 element. So you will NEED at LEAST one person who can perform a WS which is 225+. All ws 225+ has at least one lvl2 element alone. Here is the list of 225+ ws and its elemet.

Hand to hand
Dragon kick - Fragmentation
Asuran Fists - Gravitation

Dagger
Shark Bite - Fragmentation
Evisaration - Fragmentation (planned to change in september update)
1 handed sword
Swift Blade - Gravitation
Savage Blade - Fragmentation

2 handed sword
Spin Slash - Fragmentation
Ground Strike - Fragmentation / Distortion

1 handed axe
Mistral Axe - Fusion
Decimation - Fusion

2 handed axe
Full break - Distortion
Steel Cyclone - Distortion

Scythe
Cross Reaper - Distortion
Spiral Hell - Distortion

Spear
Wheeling Thrust - Fusion
Impulse Drive - Gravitation

1 handed katana
Blade: Ten - Gravitation
Blade: Ku - Gravitation

2 handed katana
Tachi: Gekko - Distortion
Tachi: Kasya - Fusion

1 handed club
Hexa Strike - Fusion
Black Halo - Fragmentation

2 handed club
Retribution - Gravitation

Bow
Arching Arrow - Fusion
Imperial Arrow - Fusion

Cross bow / Guns
Heavy Shot - Fusion
Detonation - Fusion

P.S. Bleh... guess someone beated me in posting lol...

Edited, Wed Sep 1 05:30:01 2004 by Shiia
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#24 Sep 01 2004 at 5:10 AM Rating: Decent
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Okay I'll study up more on this...seems its more complex than just WS used. A question...can you do a lvl 1 SC to lvl 2 SC to lvl 3 SC?

We were in Garliage Citadel and were doing this...

Pentra Thrust-->Piercing Arrow=Transfixion
then I would follow with Vorpal Scythe=Distortion

Here's the question-->
...so now another PC with 225 WS <skill here> can do his/hers and we can perform a lvl 3 SC?

Is this possible...I believe so but want to confirm.
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#25 Sep 01 2004 at 5:34 AM Rating: Excellent
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Oranul wrote:
We were in Garliage Citadel and were doing this...

Pentra Thrust-->Piercing Arrow=Transfixion
then I would follow with Vorpal Scythe=Distortion

Here's the question-->
...so now another PC with 225 WS <skill here> can do his/hers and we can perform a lvl 3 SC?


Yes, exactly. However the only Lv.3 you can make from Distortion is Dark, and requires a Gravitation WS. So if Swift Blade or Retribution were to follow your Vorpal Scythe, then it would indeed make a Lv.3 Dark chain.

Also (to confuse you more), you can chain multiple Lv.2s together with the use of 225+ WSs. From Distortion, you can use a Fusion WS (Ex. Hexa Strike) to form a Fusion chain. From Fusion you can use a Gravitation WS (Ex. Swift Blade) to form a Gravitation chain.

Edit: If you do this in Garliage be prepared for a bunch of "O_O" and jaws hitting the floor. Most people leveling there have barely heard of, let alone seen a Lv.3 SC.

Edited, Wed Sep 1 06:36:58 2004 by Prim
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#26 Sep 01 2004 at 9:14 AM Rating: Decent
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Thank you all for your help, my question has been answered, and I really appreciate your help on this.
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