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Targetable Etudes and You: A GuideFollow

#1 Oct 08 2004 at 7:25 AM Rating: Good
I apologize for any inconvenience, but due to new changes to FFXI this guide has been rendered outdated. Please refer to the Bard stickied topic for more current Etude links. Thank you.

Edited, Fri May 12 15:00:35 2006 by Saboruto
#2 Oct 08 2004 at 7:37 AM Rating: Decent
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2,137 posts
Correction although its an arguable topic... MND effects your resistance to any offensive spells, not just certain debuffs. INT lowers the amount of damage a spell does to you. Say because your MND is low, a spell is 100% unresisted. If your INT is high it may 220 damage, if your INT is low it will do 300. If your MND was higher, the spell could be 50% resisted. With high INT it would do 110 and with low INT it would do 150. MND has a very large impact on all magic cast on you. That's why I love being a WHM... Freeze hitting me for 300 damage without stoneskin and bar ^^;.

Good guide btw. I had to stop reading though, its almost 8AM and I need sleep. Oh, and you wrote it all without editing once. A post that long by me would have been editted 30 times before I finished it lol. Good job.
#3 Oct 08 2004 at 7:42 AM Rating: Good
Well, I based my conclusions on that around my own personal experiences and the experiences of others, as well as a train of logic. CHR *definitely* helps resist CHR-powered abilities (I know this because my bard, 2nd highst CHR-growth, resisted bard songs much more often than my THF with the lowest CHR growth, at the same job levels), so if CHR helps defend against CHR abilities, it stands to reason that MND helps resist MND abilities and INT helps resist INT abilities. I could certainly be wrong about that though, it just seems to make sense that way. And thank you for the compliments. My hope is that people will understand the Etudes a little better and I won't get PLDs asking for Spirited Etude as often as I have. >_<
#4 Oct 08 2004 at 8:27 AM Rating: Decent
This is why I find being a bard is very difficult. There are so many variable things in which you can do to help the party.

It comes down to first, a matter of preferences that a party may request. Of course, I find that Mambo is donkey-doo compared to giving the party Minuet and Madrigal, but I know black mages /cheer when I give them Learned Etude. Here is what I tend to do, note that I am only level 47.

When a puller makes his pull, I try to first determine the length of the average pull. This will give me a rough estimate on how long I can squeeze in Etude's before I need to start giving the melee's their primary songs.

For long pulls, I get Ballad off on the mages immediately, regardless if I did it 20 seconds ago. Then I go to Learned Etude first. Then I will squeeze in Spirited, for a non-Elvaan White Mage that may debuff the mob.

Next I will try to get Dextrous Etude on the THF if he is not pulling. If there is no THF, then I will throw on Vivacious on the PLD.

When the Puller is within reach, then if it is not a THF, then I will just go with Madrigal -> Minuet. If the puller is a ranger, then I will shoot off Madrigal a little earlier to land it on the melees. Then when the ranger is within my singing range, I will give him Hunter's Prelude followed by Minuet.

The reason I give Madrigal early, is because I do not expect a Ranger to worry about their melee attack accuracy compared to their overall attack. Ranged accuracy, Hunter's Prelude is a must.

Then, by that time, I will have to run back to the mages and regive Ballad and Learned Etude to the Black mage, or I will debuff the mob with Elegy and Requiem, before Ballad and Learned Etude.

If the Paladin is taking too much damage, I will throw on Vivacious and cure him.

Now for skillups, and during long pulls, I will give everyone an Etude... why not? There is a slight delay before the melee get their second songs, so I will do this :P

Also, about Etudes, I believe the Maple Harpe +1 adds +1 to the stat. Therefore, if you cast Learned Etude with just a Maple Harpe, you may get +5 INT, with the +1 version, you will get +6 I believe. The difference may change more noticably over time I level.



Edited, Fri Oct 8 09:28:48 2004 by snky
#5 Oct 08 2004 at 9:11 AM Rating: Decent
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4,592 posts
Your guide is very informative, you deserve all the rate-ups people can give you. I saw the note in the patch, but until this morning I never understood what songs were Etudes, or what they did.

One or two nitpicks: I am a Red Mage, and I'd like to add my two cents about MND and INT. MND and INT help resists to some degree, but for Enfeebles and Elemental, I've found it largely tied to the relevant skill in experience. Stat bonuses make the enfeebles last longer (which is awesome), MND makes Stoneskin more effective, INT increases base nuke damage in a predictable fashion, etc.

I still prefer Mage's Ballad, and trust my Bard's judgement, I just wanted to pipe in about the stat issue. :)
#6 Oct 08 2004 at 9:18 AM Rating: Decent
Good guide, It is very helpful for all us non-bards too. It gave me a better understanding of how the bard in a party works. Thanks!
#7 Oct 08 2004 at 9:27 AM Rating: Default
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1,481 posts
Thanks for the info...

BRD just got (more) busy...
#9 Oct 08 2004 at 9:52 AM Rating: Decent
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175 posts
This is great for an up and comming bard like myself.
Thanks ALOT

Ctrl+p and rate up
#10 Oct 08 2004 at 8:42 PM Rating: Good
Bump of /joy.
#11 Oct 08 2004 at 9:41 PM Rating: Decent
Great Post! Couldn't even think of adding anything here.


37BRD btw^^.
#12 Oct 08 2004 at 9:52 PM Rating: Default
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2,638 posts
He forgot the beloved Hunter's Prelude... which although isnt an etude is treated much like one.

One target one person affected and lots of joy for those RNG out there.
#13 Oct 08 2004 at 10:14 PM Rating: Decent
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545 posts
Saboruto, I was surprised to read that the lower level etudes give *less* of a stat boost than the higher etudes.

My understanding is that most Bard songs start out with some minimal effectiveness. In the case of Etudes, I always found them to give a minimum of +4 to a stat. As my instrument and singing skills increased, these Etudes eventually moved up to +5. If these songs are anything like the Paeon series, then they increase once and that's it for them. Well, except for a RoseHarp/RoseHarp+1, which add 1 or 2 to any etude stat boost. On the other hand, if these songs are like the Minuet/Minne series, then they will continue to grow as my skills increase.

A great example is the Paeon line, where Paeon 1 starts at 1 hp/tick and eventually becomes 2. Paeon 2 starts at 2 and later becomes 3.


Unless the etude songs work differently than paeon/minuet/minne, the higher etudes should only be marginally better at first, or perhaps even the same. Heck, as a 51 BRD with max skills, my Paeon 2 and Paeon 3 both do the exact same healing per tick. But I know that as I level my skills, ultimately Paeon 3 will increase to 4 a tick and Paeon 2 is capped at 3.

I would expect high etude songs to start out with at least +5 without the help of a Rose Harp, and increase further with time.


edit: minor clarification

Edited, Fri Oct 8 23:15:45 2004 by Gergall
#14REDACTED, Posted: Oct 09 2004 at 2:56 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Why is this is even a guide...? The description of songs is given in the game lol... If you don't know how to use Etudes as a BRD, please change your job.
#15 Oct 09 2004 at 3:06 AM Rating: Default
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2,981 posts
Quote:
Why is this is even a guide...? The description of songs is given in the game lol... If you don't know how to use Etudes as a BRD, please change your job.


He never said that, any half wit can infer from the first two paragraphs that this is mostly for non-bards. Though someone who doesn't read ALL of it before he posts wouldn't get that.

This will also be helpful to those who hope to become Bards, or JUST started the job.


Once again Saboruto an excellent post. Would make a perfect sticky for the Bard forum.

Edited, Sat Oct 9 04:11:20 2004 by BobHopeKilledMe
#16 Oct 09 2004 at 7:05 AM Rating: Good
The Great Dynastey wrote:
Why is this is even a guide...? The description of songs is given in the game lol... If you don't know how to use Etudes as a BRD, please change your job.


It's a guide because I'm getting a touch sick of the dark knights demanding Dextrous Etude... "/p <annoyingnoise14> HEY BARD! give me dex+ now!!!" is a little annoying when it reaches the point you're just SURE they've made a macro for it.

The point is not to explain what the etudes do. I only did that to inform anyone who wasn't sure so that they could understand my REAL point, which is to hopefully help non-bards understand why sometimes Etudes are a waste of time and/or one of the two song slots we have open on you. It's also here for bards and potential bards to grasp what each etude does and why it may be worth considering for their song line-ups. It sounds like you already know everything you could possibly know about Etudes (from your post), so you're welcome to leave by all means. I don't want to bore you by repeating things you undoubtedly already know. ^^

Edited, Sat Oct 9 08:07:09 2004 by Saboruto
#17 Oct 09 2004 at 9:53 AM Rating: Default
Pertaining to magic defense...

MND does absolutely nothing for your defense against black magic. It only gives you defense against white magic debuffs and offensive spells such as paralyze, holy, etc.

INT is your defense against black magic debuffs and nukes.

By higher defense I mean less damage and more resists, there is no separate stat for those.

This is pretty common knowledge and is widely accepted.

Not that you should ever choose stat boosts for magic defense, just trying to clear up a misconception that many have.
#18 Oct 09 2004 at 1:49 PM Rating: Default
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773 posts
Thank you for the Info. Being a Blm Virgin, I was not aware they are more Parcial to +Int vs +Mnd, til the Blm specifically Asked :p

Also, I can Save Time on the +Chr, since it is primarly used for Debuffing and not Buffing.

Thanks again ;-)

Edited, Sat Oct 9 14:51:13 2004 by PicOo
#19 Aug 31 2005 at 7:48 PM Rating: Default
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95 posts
Hmmm, good post. I just turned 35 today and still try to understand the concept but i am doing fine. What i dont see is how are u supposed to give a pld knights Minne and dextrous etude for example if the other melees get Valor Minuet and Sword Madrigal. Each of the characters would have o stand seperately or do i really have to find a position for the party songs where i actually only hit the one person? This would be a close to not manageable task i guess.

Please correct me if i am wrong. I love playing it again after i stopped for a while and if so i want to be one of the best.
#20 Sep 15 2005 at 9:56 AM Rating: Default
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1,006 posts
Its worth mentioning that Mnd etude is superb for Mnks vs Hnm's. Chi Blast is based on Times boosted up to roughly 10x mnd stat. So a adding Spirited tends to increase dmg by about 250 or so.

<3 Bard
#21 Sep 15 2005 at 11:00 AM Rating: Default
I personally find that Sinewy Etude has a much more profound effect than Dextrous, but generally I don't even really bother with the Etudes anyway, save for +INT. I've got too much going on to worry about giving a single person one etude, unless it's potentially critical like +DEX & +AGI for SATA.

Other than that, I find Madrigal > +DEX and Minuet +STR. And as for the higher level etudes, they should have a much stronger effect once you reach the higher levels, because all songs cap on their effectiveness at some point.
#22 Sep 15 2005 at 11:17 AM Rating: Decent
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1,366 posts
Quote:
What i dont see is how are u supposed to give a pld knights Minne and dextrous etude for example if the other melees get Valor Minuet and Sword Madrigal. Each of the characters would have o stand seperately or do i really have to find a position for the party songs where i actually only hit the one person? This would be a close to not manageable task i guess.


This has always been my dilemma/problem, especially in dungeon settings where party members, of necessity, stand close to each other, or when, no matter how nicely and firmly you describe to a party the best positioning so you can do your job, they dispute your analysis, or ignore it, or during the mayhem of battle, forget it and move.

So far, I either fake it a lot (cast the right songs but know that they will have little effect because they are immediately being overwritten by something else) or I don't cast the specific etudes at all on a regular basis. I always ask at the beginning of a party whether anyone wants more than Madrigal and Minuet (and Ballad, of course) and try to address any specific requests as best I can. I think I have the theory down pat, but, in practice, in most parties, much is difficult, if not impossible, to implement perfectly. Just keep trying.

Thanks to the OP for all your work and the information you provided. Rate up.

Edit: Wow. I got rated down for this post in which I said I was rating up someone who started a wonderful and informative thread? Someone needs their butt smacked and to be sent to their room. You can't really hurt my karma, but, even if you could, I don't care. On the other hand, I can't help but be surprised that this particular post got me rated either way. Is kindergarten out today?

Edited, Thu Sep 15 18:12:09 2005 by Alumni
#23 Sep 15 2005 at 11:21 AM Rating: Good
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676 posts
I'm not sure if the lower etudes are stronger than the higher etudes at 75, but at 66 with ebony harp +1 for the boost in etudes (I think, that might be paeon +1 instrument) the lower ones give the stat +10. The higher etudes give the stat +14, but they diminish by 1 point every 3 seconds.

I used vivacious over minne on pld's, simply because it's easier to hit them with that than trying to position yourself so the mele's don't get hit with it. Once balad 2 is avaliable, double balad for them.

Dextrious etude is sung of thf's only. Dex doen't help SATA if you're subbing thf.

Sinuey etude is great if you have a SAM since all thier WS hve a str modifier. So long as you have some warning before the SC you should be able to use it. I start this song when the SAM is at around 80% tp.
#24 Sep 15 2005 at 12:08 PM Rating: Good
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2,243 posts
I have allways been surprised that Quick Etude seems to be so
unpopular. I tend to find that the benefits from +Agi actually
seem to be greater for my 51 Pld then more Vit or Def. Perhaps
this is because the effects are dispersed among Evasion, Parry,
Shield Block and Critical Hit Reduction but for reducing DOT I
find that the additional Agi is more effective then +Vit. Maybe
this is because my char already has sufficient Def and Vit but
is deficient in Agi due to race?

As a side note, pre-60 and the availability of the Assasin job
trait, Quick Etude and Dextrous Etude should have the same
effect on SATA damage. I agree though that Dextrous has better
effects for a Thf after the SATA and would stick with that one.
#25 Sep 15 2005 at 12:09 PM Rating: Good
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2,243 posts
Double Post /sigh

Edited, Thu Sep 15 13:24:04 2005 by Bladestriker
#26 Sep 16 2005 at 6:11 PM Rating: Decent
god damned retards and your no-explanation rate downs...
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