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*** Partying with a Bard ***Follow

#1 Oct 26 2004 at 4:26 PM Rating: Decent
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1,851 posts
I'm re-posting my guide, since I've seen a few threads lately about people who are getting frustrated with those who don't know how to party with a Bard, and even in-game, I'm running into people who still don't know what the job entails!

****Illustration****
http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/uf/Kaibelf/Barding.jpg
****Illustration****

Note - this illustration is ONLY to show ranges, NOT to say which songs to play, so calm down to all you bards who FREAKED OUT about it.

This is a little informative thread I'm posting to help those who haven't partied with a BRD before to understand how to make it more helpful for all involved. I have been playing this job for a couple of weeks now, and have run into a slew of people who didn't understand the nature of the songs, or what they do, or how they work, so here goes:

When a bard "sings," they are basically casting a spell on themself, and this spell affects all party members within a certain RADIUS around the bard. With the exception of the etudes, and Hunter's Prelude, you can't target a party member from a distance with a certain song.

The reason that this is important is, certain songs are more beneficial to certain jobs than others. For example, BRDs have a Ballad, which refreshes MP a little at a time, and a Paeon, which regenerates HP. There are other songs that improve Defense, Attack, Accuracy, Dexterity, and just about every other stat. The problem is, there is a limit of TWO at a time. (One is from the instrument, and one is from the "singing." A bard with no instrument equipped only can have one song active at a time.)

That being said, the reason bards like to have melee people stand a distance away from the mages is simple. The bard runs to the mages and sing a song to refresh MP, and maybe another to boost Intellegence or Mind. Then, the bard can run over to the melee people, and sing a song that boosts, say, Accuracy and Attack Speed. Then, in effect, you have four songs going (even though the bard sang a different song on the melees, since the mages were far enough away, they retained THEIR song effects).

If the two groups stand TOO close together, however, you run the risk of having MP regenerating on Monks, and WHMs with hard-hitting wands. Not very effective.

It's absolutely important to also understand that the monster should be kept near the melee people, and if it runs for the mages, DO NOT RUN AFTER IT. Just voke it, and wait for it to come back. Otherwise, little by little, you inch closer and closer to the mages, and then the songs get all wrecked as soon as one group or the other needs the song sang again.

Also, there's the question of stacking. Paeons can stack, yes. Paeon I and Paeon II can be the two songs that are active, and you get their combined powers. Learned/Sage Etude increases INT. Spirited/Logical Etude increases MND. If I sing one, then sing the other, the second one DOES NOT cancel out the first. This is important in case there are TWO bards in the party. In addition (to calm down the bards freaking out) you can cast a low level and high level etude on the same person, but that's really not anything you're likely to encounter. Most players prefer to keep it simple and stick with madrigal/minuet/prelude.

Perfect example:
Melee - BRD1 = Madrigal (Accuracy Bonus) + Minuet (Attack Bonus), and BRD2 = March (Speed Bonus) + Paeon (HP Regen).
Then they run to the mages, and - BRD1 = Minne (DEF Bonus) and Etude (INT/MND/etc. Bonuses), and BRD2 = Ballad (MP Refresh) and Carol (Elemental protection).

See? Melees have 4 buffs on them, and mages also have four, and you basically have a supergroup. In addition to ALL of this, the BRDs also have offensive songs to use against the monster! (Again, 2 active at any one time, for each bard....).

That said, I hope that this clears up confusion over how the BRD stuff works, and the dynamics of it. Yes, it's complicated, and yes, the BRD runs around like a Choco with his head cut off a lot, but the benefits can really be amazing. If I left anything out or there's something incorrect, hey I tried, and I'm sorry.

EDIT: Tweaked a few things to calm down the rude, obnoxious emails sent to me by people who take their game a little too seriously, to the point where they feel the need to attack others for playing differently. FFS, get a life!

Edited, Mon Dec 27 15:14:34 2004 by Kaibelf
#2 Oct 26 2004 at 5:07 PM Rating: Decent
Quote:
However, other song types do not. Learned Etude increases INT. Spirited Etude increases MND. If I sing one, then sing the other, the second one DOES cancel out the first. This is important in case there are TWO bards in the party. They can each cast two songs on each group, as long as they plan it out and do not overlap.


..........

If you're going to post something about Bard, whether you *ARE* a Bard or not (and ARE a 'sage' or not), actually know what the hell you're talking about first. Posts and misinformation like this makes us all look like morons when you come on here with crap.

Any two buffs can be on any person at any time. Period. Any of the Etudes can mix and match with each other one. Don't believe me? Go try it yourself. You can have both INT Etudes, or INT + MND, or INT + CHR, or CHR + VIT, etc.

Secondly, fix your diagram and STOP telling people to put Madrigal on Paladins for crying outloud. Paladins need either double Ballads at level 55+ or (if the situation presents itself) if a RDM is present Ballad II + Vivacious Etude. If you want a tank that holds hate by hitting go get a Ninja.

I *DO* appreciate what you're trying to do, but putting misinformation up is worse than trying to deal with people that don't know how to react when a BRD is in the group. Stop it.
#3 Oct 26 2004 at 5:22 PM Rating: Decent
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237 posts
http://www.boomspeed.com/rainforest4/brd1.gif
http://www.boomspeed.com/rainforest4/brd2.gif
#4 Oct 26 2004 at 5:23 PM Rating: Good
Quote:
You can't target a party member from a distance with a certain song.


Actually, you can. Please update your post.

On September 13th, SE added the following in their update:

*The area of effect for bard "etudes" has been changed to "single party member." Also, the casting time of these songs has been substantially reduced.

*The casting time of the bard song "Goddess's Hymnus" has been reduced.

Also, Hunter's Prelude and Archer's Prelude are one-shot.

Edited, Tue Oct 26 18:25:50 2004 by Chiila
#5 Oct 26 2004 at 8:03 PM Rating: Decent
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1,851 posts
Yeah - etudes are now single target - fixed for clarification.
#6 Oct 26 2004 at 9:06 PM Rating: Decent
Any advice for rangers partying with bards? Ive noticed that most of the time bards alomost ignore rangers in the party. Ocasionally I will party with a bard that gives hunter's prelude, but it us usualy very late in the battle.
#7 Oct 26 2004 at 9:13 PM Rating: Decent
Quote:
Any advice for rangers partying with bards? Ive noticed that most of the time bards alomost ignore rangers in the party. Ocasionally I will party with a bard that gives hunter's prelude, but it us usualy very late in the battle.


If there is a RNG in the party, I make sure I pay special attention to them. I usually run around in this order:

Ballad I and II on the mages before the battle starts
Run into place with the melee and start giving +ATT & +ACC while the puller is on their way back to the camp, making sure that +ACC is played second so that it stays on the RNG once Hunter's is played.
Give Hunter's to the RNG.
Run back to the mages and give ballad ...

And thus, it goes on in a circle like this.
#8 Oct 26 2004 at 9:18 PM Rating: Decent
I try to cast Hunters pre when i can on my rng, but usally the reason it might be late in the battle is b/c we are worried about the melle and mages songs at first, then the foe req. and then the debuffs on the monsters for the blm, rdm dmg spells, after that magic finale, and battle elegy. So as u can see if we can fit that into that song list which some songs take longer than others, I belive in my opinion its' not b/c they don't want to sing your song it is because brds' run thier a$$ off and sing it off as well, and sometimes hard to fight it into the play list :)
#9 Oct 26 2004 at 9:40 PM Rating: Decent
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290 posts
For me, I usually cast Hunter's Prelude after other melees have their songs. Why?

Melees get two songs. If I give prelude first to the RNG, who will most likely stand with the other melees, THEN cast two songs, prelude may be overwritten by the new songs. So please understand, it's not because we hate you!
#10 Oct 27 2004 at 1:17 AM Rating: Decent
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1,851 posts
Emeryl wrote:
For me, I usually cast Hunter's Prelude after other melees have their songs. Why?

Melees get two songs. If I give prelude first to the RNG, who will most likely stand with the other melees, THEN cast two songs, prelude may be overwritten by the new songs. So please understand, it's not because we hate you!


This whole prelude thing has me wondering - does it actually make their attacks STRONGER? I have has many occasions where rangers say they would rather take the group's Minuet song, and then get an Etude instead of Prelude because they have enough accuracy. Thoughts?
#11 Oct 27 2004 at 2:08 AM Rating: Decent
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729 posts
Prelude is a pure accuracy boost as far as I know.
#12 Oct 28 2004 at 12:39 AM Rating: Decent
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155 posts
Quote:
Ballad I and II on the mages before the battle starts
Run into place with the melee and start giving +ATT & +ACC while the puller is on their way back to the camp, making sure that +ACC is played second so that it stays on the RNG once Hunter's is played.
Give Hunter's to the RNG.
Run back to the mages and give ballad ...


Why would a RNG want +ACC as im certain thats melee accuracy only so it would be wiser to increase +ATT instead as i think it affects both Melee attack and Ranged Attack (correct me if im wrong) I have a set up like this assuming a RNG is in party:

1. Ballad I and II on mages while puller announces incoming.
2. Sing Madrigal (+ACC) on melees while RNG is out pulling.
3. Sing Minuet (+ATK) on Everyone.
4. Sing Prelude (+RACC) on RNG overwriteing Madrigal.
5. Debuff Mob with Elegy, Requiem, and applicable Threnody.
NOTE. Timers on Madrigal and Minuet should be low enough to overwite on PLD tank.
6. Sing Vivacious Etude (+VIT) on PLD overwriting Madrigal.
7. Sing Ballad I on mages ONLY refreshing it.
8. Sing Ballad II on mages AND PLD overwriting Minuet on PLD.
9. Group Heals and WHM Stuff and reapplying MOB debuffs if needed.
10. Monster has silver of health left, Start singing after battle group songs weather it be Peaon+Ballad or Double Ballad.
11. Top off Party memebers HP while RNG heads out for next monster.

Thus party will have the songs on them:

RNG: Prelude + Minuet (+RACC and +ATK)
PLD: Ballad II + V. Etude (+MP and +VIT)
MAGES: Ballad II + Ballad I (+MP and +MP)
O. MELEES: Madrigal + Minuet (+ACC and +ATK)
MONSTER: Threnody + Elegy + Requiem (-HP, Slow, Weaker element)



Now yes with out a RNG as puller or PLD as tank the set up is just a bit different (Madrigal as puller comes in, no prelude step, different etude if any on other Tanks) but the idea is similar. Also March (+SPeed) can be used in certain situations.

Quote:
See? Melees have 4 buffs on them, and mages also have four, and you basically have a supergroup. In addition to ALL of this, the BRDs also have offensive songs to use against the monster! (Again, 2 active at any one time, for each bard....).


Even with Multiple BARDS you can only have 1 of each debuff on a mob. Elegy, Requiem, Lullaby, and Threnody.


Hope this clears a few things up and yes our Job is complex at times but we are the ultimate party support characters. It becomes more natural to do as the levels increase.
#13 Oct 28 2004 at 12:41 AM Rating: Default
hahahahha gratz on the pic very creative :D
#14 Oct 28 2004 at 12:49 AM Rating: Decent
Wow this is why i am not bard!
#15 Oct 28 2004 at 1:26 AM Rating: Decent
Quote:
This whole prelude thing has me wondering - does it actually make their attacks STRONGER? I have has many occasions where rangers say they would rather take the group's Minuet song, and then get an Etude instead of Prelude because they have enough accuracy. Thoughts?


Think of Prelude as being Madrigal for your ranger. The way I generally handle it is to hit the ranger with Prelude before he goes out, Madrigal the other melee, then hit the ranger and other melee with Minute when the ranger gets back.

#16 Dec 26 2004 at 7:13 AM Rating: Good
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1,851 posts
Mistress Sanjiyanzze wrote:
hahahahha gratz on the pic very creative :D


It's actually not mine - I borrowed it from someone else's site.

As to the prick who replied earlier whining about my diagram telling the wrong songs, the point of the picture was to illustrate how the song ranges hit certain sections of the group, not to say which songs should be cast, so please untie your goddam panties, because your ridiculous post made you look like a major ***.
#17 Dec 26 2004 at 1:00 PM Rating: Decent
Kaibelf Defender of Justice wrote:
Mistress Sanjiyanzze wrote:
hahahahha gratz on the pic very creative :D


It's actually not mine - I borrowed it from someone else's site.

As to the prick who replied earlier whining about my diagram telling the wrong songs, the point of the picture was to illustrate how the song ranges hit certain sections of the group, not to say which songs should be cast, so please untie your goddam panties, because your ridiculous post made you look like a major ***.


Would you like some cheese to go with that whine? It's not my fault you posted a load of tripe and then get pissed when 90% of it was utter ********* If you won't want to be called on it, actually research your **** and don't be an idiot.
#18 Dec 26 2004 at 2:00 PM Rating: Good
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90 posts
There's a difference between saying, 'Hey man you're wrong about <insert whatever here>, this is the correct answer' and 'OMG STFU you noob! I cant believe anybody can still be so stupid!'

You my friend did the latter.
#19 Dec 26 2004 at 2:05 PM Rating: Decent
49 posts
Would it not be easier in a PLD party to just cast madrigal+minuet on all the melees, and then overwrite minuet with ballad on the bard (assuming you don't want or have two ballads for the PLD)?
#20 Dec 26 2004 at 2:07 PM Rating: Decent
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1,015 posts
Kaibelf Defender of Justice wrote:
Learned Etude increases INT. Spirited Etude increases MND. If I sing one, then sing the other, the second one DOES cancel out the first.


No, that is false. Unless you have another song active with a +2 instument beforhand etudes DO stack if they are different type (Spirited and learned but not learned x2.)

Russellius wrote:
Would you like some cheese to go with that whine? It's not my fault you posted a load of tripe and then get pissed when 90% of it was utter bullsh*t. If you won't want to be called on it, actually research your sh*t and don't be an idiot.


Actually, outside of the information on the etudes he was right on track. Why don't you go flame people who need it.

Oh yeah, you can't flame yourself.
#21 Dec 26 2004 at 2:14 PM Rating: Good
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90 posts
Quote:
Oh yeah, you can't flame yourself.


I cant rate myself down either! What the HECK?!?!?! ;)


#22 Dec 26 2004 at 5:17 PM Rating: Good
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659 posts
O_o How much downtime do your parties have?!?
I would never be able to get all this out and still consistantly get Chain5+... Don't forget, each of our partywide buff songs are a total of 10secs before the next can be cast, so your song list creates almost a full minute of downtime between one battle ending and the next beginning... That would surely cause a loss of EXP gained over time, the premature ending of Chains and defeats the purpose of our job: To keep downtime to a minimum.

For the most part, and most parties, there are only two sets of songs that seem to be required/requested: Minuet/Madrigal for melees, and Ballad/Ballad for mages/pld.
If you are lucky enough to have a ranger in your party, I suggest for the optimal benefit to the party to play songs in this order as soon as mob has been provoked for the first time:

1. Elegy >> short song, does not hurt flow of buff songs... slow mob = less damage to party = good thing

2. Madrigal >> All non-mages (Insures that TP increases at the fastest rate possible.. also increases damage output over time.)

3. Prelude >> Ranger (Odds are that your RNG would like to start spamming arrows by now.. also since it is a short song, increases overall damage output sooner.)

4. Minuet >> All non-mages (which will overwrite Madrigal, leaving Prelude/Minuet on the RNG.)

5/6. Ballad x2 >> Mages/PLD (Um.. our most requested playlist ^_^)

Depending on whether your party is opening with a skillchain, you should either play the appropriate threnody immediately after opening with Elegy, or squeeze it in after melee buffs if Ballads have not worn off from previous casting, as long as it is up before the SC lands ^^;

Following this pattern works quite well for the average pickup party for xp'ing, but you might occasionally need to change things up (ie: Last night my party's melee had enough ACC+ gear to bypass the usual Minuet. We ended up settling on MinuetIII/II on the melees as the combo that helped the party the most.)

Now, I am not an expert on such things, nor am I an employee of SE, so the previous is entirely based on my own experience, thoughts and feelings on this matter, so feel free to experiment yourself to find your own playstyle ^_^ Good luck to everyone, and stay spoony!

#23 Dec 26 2004 at 6:47 PM Rating: Decent
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696 posts
Quote:
Wow this is why i am not bard!


LOL - Now you figure that out?!
#24 Dec 27 2004 at 4:10 AM Rating: Default
DinchtV wrote:
There's a difference between saying, 'Hey man you're wrong about <insert whatever here>, this is the correct answer' and 'OMG STFU you noob! I cant believe anybody can still be so stupid!'

You my friend did the latter.


If you knew how utterly pathetic a person he is, as well as his inability to send a private message saying something else other than "OMG U N00B DUN REPLY ON MY THREAD" you'd change your tune. Every post by him has been nothing more than ****** whiney and any comments he's made about bards are not only false but incredibly stupid.

If you're going to try to post information about a job, research the ****. He obviously didn't, and that's incredibly sad considering he IS a bard.

At any rate your opinions really don't mean jack **** to me. You're all text and graphics.
#25 Dec 27 2004 at 4:31 AM Rating: Decent
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379 posts
My last party was 2 rng, nin tank, rdm, blm and me. Song order went something along the lines of:


(before this the mages had ballad on them)
1. Madrigal when rng announces pull (for the nin)
2. Prelude on 1 rng
3. Minuet on all melees
4. Elegy on mob
5. Prelude on 2nd rng
6. Threnody on mob
7. Ballad on Mages
8. Etudes on mages
9. Recast Prelude on ranger who's pulling

I threw in Finale whenever the mob buffed in between those. These kinds of parties i don't mind, i've had ones where i've done a lot more songs then this per battle. A lot of fun but you really have to focus.

Edited, Mon Dec 27 04:32:18 2004 by TakaharuSan
#26 Dec 27 2004 at 5:19 AM Rating: Decent
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90 posts
Quote:
At any rate your opinions really don't mean jack sh*t to me. You're all text and graphics.


Oh really? Is that why you felt the need to post about my opinion? And to your latter statement, I am more than just text and graphics. I am a human being sitting at a computer.

If you cant see that, then I sincerly feel sorry for you.
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