Japanese Players & my observationsFollow

I'm braving the General Forums...people are so harsh here ; ;

Firstly, I am Japanese. I read a lot of Japanese Forums, from ************* BBS" to "2ch". I read not only for tips but also how they are seeing the game. Their feel, their money makers, their struggles. I thought I'd share these with you so that you may have a better understanding of what goes on behind those silly Ascii arts.

Secondly, I consider myself NA, as in "North American Player" I play on the NA version, I live in NYC. Because my FFXI is NA version, I can't input in Japanese. So, I've been treated much the same way NAs do...who cares if I can type in Roma-ji. JPs still think I'm NA.

----------------------My Observations-------------------------

First, there are 2 pretty distinct set of JPs.
1) The "casual player" that eternally levels different jobs, plays an average of few hours (3-5) a day. They are usually high level crafters as well, since they can't get enough time to level once they hit lvl 60+.

2) The second type is what they call "Haijin" ... Basically an addict. Usually have quit their full time jobs, neglected friends, family all of Real Life. Yet they are uber players ingame, multiple lvl 75 jobs, a few KIRIN deaths to their name, and have multiple multimillion gil equipment....from Noble's Tunic to Joyeuse.

They don't like eachother. The Kanji, or the Chinese characters used to for the word "Haijin" is literaly, "Wasted Person".

Most of them are college age or older. Probably in their mid 20s all the way to 40s. Why? Because Final Fantasy I came out about 20 years ago. Most of them have been playing since. (Me included)

On non-JPs:
When FFXI first came out, they were very eager to hang out with the NAs. Meet new people, even a few braved their English. BUT was met with abuse. High Lvls being bombarded with /tells of help and beggers stalked them. When they did join up with NAs to PT, most of them did not have any good gear, nor playing skills...where...? IN THE DUNES OF COURSE!

I'm sure most here are at least in your 40+s, with decent gear and playing skill. Imagine...one day you decide to go level in the Dunes, and all you find are n00bs. Shouting non-sense about {mithra}{fun}{hole}, being checked over and over and over, not understanding weapon skills, mages that would over nuke or over cure, gets links and aggros left and right. We've been there, working on our subjobs and sub-sub jobs. We've all PTed with the incapable n00bs once or twice.

Well...unfortunately, when the JPs finally encountered us, it was in the Dunes. When we were all newbie n00bs. Most NAs struggled with playing skills until Crawler's Nest. Then each job will become more distinct, and each player will finally start to understand skill chains, MBs, link control, hate control. But by then, it was too late. JPs were working on their subjobs or sub-subjobs when we were on our 'first round' at the C'Nest. ><

They've had enough.
So, they've basically decided that we are all "noobs".

Think about it...how many PLDs actually ate fish mithkabobs in your 30s? How many mages actually took the time out from leveling so you can make your own juices during your pre-refresh days? How many DDs actually were able to skillchain? Very few...I bet.

I know, because while working on my subjob, I dreaded being in a PT with Rank 2s and 3s - I was unable to go beyond Chain 1, and faced many deaths due to links and bad pulls. I was very reluctant to accept PT invites from Rank 2s and 3s. If it was a blind invite, I declined! I didn't, but came very close to putting in, "Low Rank PTs, {no thanks}" (Hmmmm...familiar to "NA Party No Thanks") But when I was in a PT with Rank 6s and above, I was able to hit Chain 5, MBing off every Skill Chain. see? and this is just amongst NAs!

On Money Making:
Most of them do BCNMs. Pick Up BCNMs where they would always fight the number of fights as orb holders. So if 6 show up with 1 orb each, they will fight 6 times. No one leaves. Just common courtesy.

Most of them do take considerable time out to make money too. Not just NMs but common things as well. Once they made OK money, they would invest in a craft or two. Usually they will work on one or two crafts at a time. Because they take a lot of time making money, they want to level as fast as possible when they go back to EXPing. ... So that's why when they were faced with the newbie NAs, it left a very sour taste in their mouth.

On PTing:
While they are in a PT, they are a family. They take care of eachother, and if another JP PT steals the pull, they actually do yell at eachother. I had a time where a PT of BSTs were leveling near me in Attowa Chasm. They kept on stealing our mobs for their Pets, and when we finally got a pull, released a thier Pets so it will link to ours. Apparently they thought this was funny and kept on doing it, until finally our NIN tank got very angry (cuz every hit he took from the linking has-been-pet blew off his Utsusemi) and my whole PT and the BST duo PT got into a very nasty shouting match. So their PTs aren't much different from ours. "WTF n00b!! Your AOE is hitting our mages!! Move you idiot!!" ...things like that are VERY much the same.

On {JP ONLY}:
Like I said, most are older people who are a bit shy about their English. Maybe some NA along the ways picked on their English skills. Regardless of how much schooling they got, thier English isn't that much better than...let's see...an average American's understanding of French. An average American's Spanish is even faaaar better than an average Japanese person's English.

So it's hard for them to sit there and read English flow by in the PT chat window. They do try to understand it but will certainly diminish their fun time - it would be like going back to school for them!!

I was in PT once where it was me, another NA DD, and the rest were all JPs. The JPs were all chatting away, joking at eachother, discussing tips, etc. The NA DD sends me a tell..."Geee, I feel like a deaf-mute here...so boring ><" Exactly. That's how they feel when you invite one or two JPs into your PT. Double that with the n00bish behaviour they've encountered from the Dunes...no wonder they dont' want to PT with us.

Then I was in a PT with a JP BLM. He was very silent throught the all NA PT. Then the NA PT disbanded. Both me and the JP BLM got invited into an all JP PT. The JP BLM said, "Finally...a language I don't need to use my brain to understand (followed by ascii smilely face". He has {JP ONLY} in his search comment, but he was in an NA PT... I asked him why. He said, "I'd rather be in an environment I can relax. But I'm an EXP ***** (silly ascii face)".

"Global-kun"
Is a nickname given to those on 2ch Forum who try to promote interaction with NAs. There's a good mix now - those who don't mind NAs (especailly decked out NAs) and those who will NOT at any costs do anything with NAs. There's always a good argument going on which I enjoy.

Some actually went on to say: Decked Out NA > average JP

On RMT:
There seems a general concensus that all of us NAs buy gil ; ; I don't blame them, since there are lots of us running around wearing what they concidered end-game dream gear... Gear that was only available to those who have made it big... Hauberks, Vermillions, etc. Grant it, there are some HNMLS leaders running around in decked out gear...but there are some...who are...questionable. But they don't seem to mind - the RMT bought money is going into their pockets ^^;

Thank you for a greater understanding in a well writen post.

wwdragon

Nice to hear something about the community of Japanese players, and not vast overgeneralizations about Japanese society for a change. Big rate up even though you're at 5 already.

people are harsh here ; ;

An EXCELLENT, well written, informative, non-biased post! You confirmed many things that I always assumed about the Japanese community, and also opened my eyes to a few things I had no clue about.

Not only did I start playing FFXI because I wanted to get seriously invovled in a MMORPG, but because I've played FF's since NA III. ( I'm pushing 30 years old now...). That story is nothing new. Nothing new at all.. But one of the OTHER reasons I started playing FFXI was because of the Japanese. From day one of reading about FFXI, I could not WAIT to befriend some people from around the globe. I've always been fascinated with their culture (though while I know more about it then many NA, in all reality, I know nothing.. heh).

Reality hit pretty quick, that a language barrier is a big barrier. I found my hopes of making friends with some japanese shattered. Not only because of the language though, but because I saw how NA's were doing nothing but making the Japanese.. (and some NA's for that matter..) want to have little to do with us.

Posts like this are refreshing to read. They give me a glimps of the world I was hoping to weasle my way into.

Thanks again!

¥ Drogier ¥

I would Rate you higher if I could. Wonderful and thoughtout POST. I have lived in Japan for over 10 years. I speak and can read a little Kanji so I understand some of what they say at times. I am really glad you posted this. I have been saying the same thing about "JP Only" for a long time. My wife is Japanese, went to HS in the US, talks to me in English everyday and still does not speak english with the fluency that you and I do, I correct here everyday and she hates it (lol). Now think about these JPs on game that have a few classes during thier Jr High and High school years. There is not a snowball chance in hell that they will be able to communicate with us in a manner that we both could understand.

Playing this game in Japan 90% of my PT invites are Japanese. I really dont mind being the only player in a party that is NA. Im there to level anyways and JP parties tend to be more efficent. An interesting comment is about the gil buying. I never thought about that... we all know alot of people buy gil on line but it raises the question why would they stereo type by saying all NA buy gil. I worked very hard on making my gil. Now I do have those exspensive items and it kinda makes me feel bad that when I PT with them they think I just used real money to get em.

Anyways I wish more JPs that have lived in the States or has a better understanding of englsih would post more on these sights. Japan and the Japanese people in real life are great. I enjoy listening to what they have to say and how they go about things in real life or in the game. Its really to bad that JPs get a bad rap sometimes when most can honestly say they have never meet or spoke to a Japanese person in real life.

Thank you very much for coming here and sharing this with us. One thing I do ask is please dont stop here. With you being able to read the "All JP boards (meaning all in Kangi)" let us know whats going on. What issues they are having and see if there is anything we all can do to help resolve them. If they have answers to things we are looking for try to help us out. Same goes for NA to JP.

Have a great day and hope to read more from you in the future.

Peace
Gettling

I have the same problem with antisocial PTs. Sometimes even among people who DO speak your own language they wont talk much. Those are the parties I have to leave after an hour or so just out of sheer boredom. *stretch* "Hmm I think Ill go jog or soemthing"

In all honesty, that's kind of how I expected it to be. Seriously, we're all humans and noone is beyond reproach. And, sadly, there were actually TWO waves of Norht American players that didnt really know what to do. First was the PC people (hey thats me) and then there was the PS2 release. It was shortly after the PS2 release when I noticed the divide between JPs and NAs get really big. Im not trying to point a finger guys, Im just saying that we kind of got hit with a double whammy stereotype due to the release dates over here in the States.

Oh Uchipu, you do know that you can use the JP POL disc to use Japanese in FFXI right? Maybe an old friend of yours could hook you up with a disc or an .iso

just posting to state the rate up.

Hope you keep us informed on what goes on in other those language forums! ^^


Ell

Great post first off. It's hard to say the same thing when saying it in someones thread regarding a similar issue, rather its easiest to send the message as your own topic. No one likes to listen thats why. *generalization, this on doesn't apply to a lot of people, but enough people to merit stating* NA is too concerned about other people that don't think the same as them. So they go on making offensive comments like "JP onry" and so on. See, this is exactly why many foreign countries don't like Americans. We're too stupid and fat (America is the highest in numbers of obese people) to comprehend that others aren't the same. So we in-turn ridicule them for it. We let these idiotic americans out into the world. Way to show the intellegence of the people of America to the world. The future is very grim with these childish antics.

Edited, Wed Jan 26 19:12:12 2005 by Welsper

Awesome post. ^^

Disclaimer: Below is my take on the bad NA players. I do not imply that all or most NA players are bad.

First, let me say I'm not Japanese. I think there are many nice NAs in FFXI but a few rude NAs could ruin everything for us. Being an average person, I do whatever within my abilities to make ppl who interact with me feel comfortable. However, some selfish NA people take their freedom a bit too far, "I have my freedom of speech, I can express my opinions in anyway that I want to." Case in point, someone posted JPNs are offended by the word "***"; we should stop using it. Reading the thread and you will see how those selfish NAs responded :(.
I'm Vietnamese. I'm not offended when someone refers to me as "Viet" but it doesn't mean it's OK for me to call JPNs "***".

All "bad" NA players think they are level 40+ and rank 4-5, they know it all yet don't have the skill to back it up. Take SATA for example, in my recent party, a level 37WAR/NIN rank 4 who got pissed off when I asked him if he knew how SATA worked twice (the first question went unanswerred). When it was time to fight, he sucked. He took near 10-15 sec to target the right mob, another 3 sec to draw his weapon then provoke. He was told by several party members to update the macro or create a macro to target mob faster but he never did it. Finally he provoked a wrong mob and the whole party get killed. Being a NA, I would say "<PlayerName> {Too Weak}." For those JPs, it would probably be "NA {Too Weak}." If you don't know or aren't good at what you are doing, please listen and learn what others have to offer to you.

Another situation with a low level, low rank JP. He came to Kazham with level 10 armors and level 14-15 weapon as a WAR/MNK (fully levelled sub though). I asked him why and he answered, "{No Money!} {/blush}." Even with the gimped armors, this JP performed much better at targetting and provoking than an up-to-date NA WAR/MNK. Since it was too hard to tell him to stand opposite with the thief and next to the other WAR when provoke for the thief to SA, we decided to tell him not to provoke. Immediately, he asked, "no {Provoke}?", we confirmed it and no more provoke coming from him. At level 30s, I was in a party with PLD and WAR/NIN so I told the MNK/WAR not to provoke since he didn't know where to stand and it messed up my SATA. Guess what, provoke happened every 30 second as if he was the main tank. After telling him several times, I got upset and yelled at him. He replied, "Stop telling me how to play. My game, my payment, my character. I do whatever I want to.". If this person was in a JP party, of course, their experience will be "NA {Too Weak}".

If all of us could be less selfish, willing to learn and be nice to everyone around us, we can definately make the JPs to respect us.

"If you want people to respect you, respect yourself."
-Unknown

sadly, i think its higher now. i've noticed many people rushing their job levels (i'm not saying everyone).

Yes..when will the Japanese get this?? ( I know you were trying to slap american's upside the head...but I thought that a little dose of reality might help this thread some)

I know the OP is trying to do a good thing, but I might be more disposed to sympathy for the japanese players if all the good things didn't go to them first..and sometimes NEVER to the NA players. Excuse me if I don't feel sorry for them that they don't want to use the translator. frankly I am tired of our side of the world being expected to do all of that work
Imagine... they were higher level's than the new NA players but they had the gaul to demand that we party to their level.. having food ect at that point. And if we didn't we stunk.
Sorry. I know the thread was to help, but the self-righteous, hate/blame America first crowd will NEVER help the situation. Please get that idea through your head.