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Double & Tripple Attack and the new update.Follow

#52 May 20 2005 at 1:55 PM Rating: Decent
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1,352 posts
That is exactly right Poochy, however for those people who have reached the point where xp'ing on VT mobs is the only option. They have a choice in gear that will add haste or att or acc as well as the ability to send merit points to certain passive traits covered in the OP.

I am a war by profession, killing is my specialty, so I provided this guide as a way to add weight behind investing in DA merit points, and lotting on byako's hadate. As opposed to reducing timers and putting ATT-STR on the legs.

This gives consumers a guide as to what they are buying by using a piece of equipment and/or investing in merit point upgrades when combined with the traits of their main and sub jobs.

This is not a critique on the effectiveness of the whm haste spell alone. However I did do extensive example calculations on how to put a Damage/MP ratio on the haste spell in another post (It turns out to a surprisingly high ratio - on par with drain but constrained by the effectivenss of the DD recipient).


Edited, Fri May 20 14:56:10 2005 by tarekthedestroyer
#53 Aug 24 2005 at 9:12 AM Rating: Decent
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86 posts
Hey Tarek,
How would the effects of a kraken club or a joyuse (or any of the new faith weapons) come into play for the equations?
#54 Aug 24 2005 at 9:32 AM Rating: Decent
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1,352 posts
That's a very interesting question, since double attack doesn't stack with multi hit weapons (when the effect goes off) but haste would still generate more swings/time.

I suppose that they would behave like triple attack/double attack but as far as a value is concerned that would be very difficult to calculate. We'd need to know a valid % activation on each of attack modes (i.e. %of time for 1 hit, %of time for 2 hits,..., %of time for 8 hits).

The (%of time for 1 hit) term actually would stack with double/triple attack but for the rest the cross terms drop.

(1+a+2b+3c+4d+5e+6f+7g)(Wd)(t) Would be the core formula where A-G are the %activation (in fractional form) that the weapon is likely to attack 2 times - 8 times. Again every term besides the 1 would drop when multiply with double/triple attack.


Edited, Wed Aug 24 10:50:34 2005 by tarekthedestroyer

To simplify for non kraken club multi hit weapons.
Joyhuse & faith weapons (occasionally attack twice)
(1+a)

Ridill (occasionally attacks 2-3 times)
(1+a+2b)

Kraken Club (up to 8 times)
(1+a+2b+3c+4d+5e+6f+7g)

Remember that all the terms stack with X- haste but will not stack with y- double attack or z-triple attack. Simply cross out the terms where both exist and you have the formula. Also remember that each of the probabilities a - g vary from weapon to weapon and are unkowns at this time.

Edited, Wed Aug 24 10:53:09 2005 by tarekthedestroyer

Short answer:
Haste (spell/gear) for a person with a multi hit weapon is a VERY good thing.


Edited, Wed Aug 24 11:12:38 2005 by tarekthedestroyer
#55 Aug 24 2005 at 11:15 AM Rating: Good
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3,038 posts
Why does this thread keep getting resurrected? No offense tarek, but this basically is just saying that haste is better on jobs with double/triple attack which is kind of a no-brainer. Kick attacks do stack with double attack btw, I have attacked 5 times in a round before with a DA on each fist and a kick to finish.

As for multi-hit weapons, I highly doubt DA or TA could proc on any hits except possibly the first. Anything after that is an 'additional hit,' like double attack itself, and would not proc DA or TA.
#56 Aug 24 2005 at 11:32 AM Rating: Decent
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The meaning was that you can't kick twice in a row, as for why it gets necroposted.. THIS TIME it was a valid question.

What I've done is break down how haste and certain JT work and how they interact. You are right this is pretty much common sense. But prior to this there was no real way to determine the effectiveness.

As for multi hit weapons, double attack does not stack when they attack more than once. If the mode the weapons fires is 1 hit, then there is a chance for natural double/triple attack to activate, otherwise no-You won't get a Joyhuse to hit 3 times, or a kraken club to hit 9 times.

I would also like to mention that using the formula's provided it is now possible to work out unknowns (like the modality of the multi hit weapons.).
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