Paladin/ Red Mage, why do you say nigh?Follow

I have to say your post is well thought out and just for that I will rate you up. The only problem I see is the case for using Stoneskin and Phalanx. These spells for red mage are lvl 33 and lvl 34. Because of this the pld/rdm could not utilize these most wonderful spells until lvl 66 and 68. I would say that pld/ war is still a good combination, but post-68, when the pld can use these spells, this could be a very good combo.

my immediate thought is this

Paladin does not have any natural enfeebling magic that I know of. Therefore the casting or enfeebling magic will yeild little to no results. However, the enhancing magic idea is pretty intresting since PLD does have enhancing skill.However, since it is lower than RDM, we must expect the spells will be weakened.

The second issue is hate control. I leveled PLD to the 40's... and hate control was always an issue, even with Flash and provoke... I had major issues with hate control sometimes, and thats an unavoidable fact of being a PLD. if you sub RDM.... with all that protection, you cannot use self healing as a method to gain hate, Flash is still a fairly long recast spell, and PLD cannt use damage to get hate.

As far as I know, with capped Enhancing, the most they will ever give is 3 shadows, correct me if I'm wrong please.

Sounds pretty interesting...Although I do not believe it would work for tanking.
Any good DD would take hate from you pretty easily.

I'll always sub warrior because its so damn fun >_>

Good thing you're only level 41, you have absolutely no idea how horrible that party would be - or how stupid it is to use Kraken on skeleton-type mobs. Do you even have any idea how gimped MNK/SAM is?

Good thing is, that profile is way outta date coz i'm fekkin' lazy.

Yes, I know the constant TP gain from skelles would be a problem, but they're things other than skelles. Even against skells, they die fairly quick to normal bone PTs, toss in a kraken club and plenty of WS, and it would be a fairly cool thing to watch.

Also, bias against ANY job combination is pretty stupid. PLAYER > JOB. RDM/WAR might look nooby to some. But to others, it's an excellent tank(I've seen this at work, it's quite a marvel). So MNK/SAM Doesn't do as much damage. Third eye if they steal hate, Meditate to get TP Between battles to speed up kills.


I've been in a DRG DRG DRG THF WAR RDM PT. True, it was only dunes, but it worked quite well. I tanked in kazham as a DRG. Again, purely situational, but THAT'S THE STRENGTH OF A PARTY.

Mixing and matching for what you need. Want to kill skelles? Get MNKs. Want to hunt flies? Find a DRG. No WHMs seeking? Get a SMN or two.



We'll never know until we try.


NIN/BLM worked.

This is based on your enhancing skill. I don't know what a Paladin's base enhancing magic skill is, but I'm guessing it's not nearly as good as a Red Mage's.


This is also based on enhancing skill. You'll get exactly one freebie hit on exp mobs.


Again...based on enhancing magic. The better your enhancing, the more damage the en-spell will do. Usually it's around 6-19. For me, it's an additional +19 matching the correct elemental weakness to the enemy, because I have maxed out enhancing and a mixture of AF1 and AF2 gives me +30 enhancing skill. A Paladin subbing Red Mage isn't going to get that kind of damage. They'll probably get 5-8.


Self only. This doesn't benefit the party in any way. And it's not anything someone subbing whm can't do for the whole group.


I'll concede this point.


Holy costs 100mp. I've never seen a Paladin use Holy.


All I can think here is, if you want to Blink tank, be a Ninja. The spell Blink has a really slow recast, and isn't as reliable as the Ninjitsu spell. (i.e. mobs can still hit you through the spell, while the spell stays up)


Another point in your favor, but nothing refresh or ballad won't fix.


Only a tiny bit more. RDM has the most pathetic pool of all the mages. I don't know the math on this, but I'd guess we're talking like 20mp or somewhere in that range. (Maybe a level 75PLD with RDM unlocked can tell us precisely what the mp difference is?)


Let's finish flushing this example you gave out. The Paladin casts Blink for 20mp, Stoneskin for 29, and Phalanx for 21. Barspell is 6, enspell is 12.

We have a total of 88mp spent just to buff for the initial pull. If we start throwing stuff like 100mp Holy's on there, weak *** Dia/Bio AND the usual Paladin curing, you have a seriously MP drained Paladin.

This is the secret of why Red Mages work at soloing with SS/Blink/Phalanx and other jobs do not:

Convert and Higher Fast Cast. A Paladin will never have access to the Fast Casts that a Red Mage main will. I can solo Very Toughs on my RDM by cycling through Stoneskin/Blink/Phalanx and the occasional sleep when a buff goes bad. When I'm finally drained of mp, I can Convert.

What happens when the Paladin in our scenario runs out of mp and can't voke to get hate back? You've got a dead WHM or RDM or SMN from trying to desperately cure him, since he can't cure himself.

Overall, I'd say it's not worth it. This game has support jobs for a reason and tanks for a reason. Let each job do their thing, and not try to undertake everyone else's job all at once. A good Paladin will rely on a good WHM, a good RDM, instead of trying to do their job too.

Just my two gil.

I imagine that this could work,but I dont think it will be better than warrior. (but ive given you a rate up.becuase I like thinking outside of the box,and it certainly would be usefull for specific situations and party setups) First,you would want to keep enspell up every single second of every fight. More hate,and you need it becuase you dont have voke. Second,a thf in your party is a must. A GOOD pld holds hate well. Thats with provoke,without you will have more difficulty in some situations. (a bad pld loses hate,but a bad party pulls it,so if what this really means is that a good party puts out less damage with a bad tank) Stoneskin and phalanx are good. You can recast stoneskin in the middle of a fight as well.Since you dont get it till later,I assume that a stoneskin gorget is a must.You dont get refresh or convert,this is huge. Also,you wont get as much use out of stoneskin and phalanx.THey go off enhancing magic,pld has enhancing,but RDM B+ rater enhancing is the best in the game.
One has to ask how this would be better than rdm/war (lets not get into whether red mage war is a better tank than PLD/WAR,just whether RDM/WAR is perhaps a better tank than PLD/RDM. PLD/RDMis tougher than rdm/war,or is it ,rdm/war gets defender. Seems like a wash.Defender brings down attack,and pld is naturally a rated with a sword. Your enspells wont do as much,but rdm wont hit for as much. Again,hard to say which way it comes out.A question that a pld could answer for us is,how much less damage do you take when you put up defender? Is it more than phalanx knocks off per hit?
One way a rdm "tanks", usually when soloing is to keep phalanx and stoneskin up. (I dont find blink to be of much use,its expensive mp wise,and only takes three hits) I load up on vit gear,I get over 30 vit from all my gear. Subbing war is great for solo,with defender I easily can get over 500 def. ( I wear beak +1 for vit)The idea is,if I can get the damage down close to aroudn 20-30 a hit,then phalanx will take up most of the rest,and stoneskin will last for a very long time. This is why stoneskin doenst rapidly eat up most of my magic.Pld has an advantage however,you can also use an earth staff.RDM has not native staff skill,but pld is A rated. This is a big deal. Although earth staff damage isnt huge,en-spells will help. (enstone I assume becuase the earth staff will enhance it) All in all,you just migh t be able,if you load up on some really good gear and use an earth staff,get your damage below down to the phalanx thershold.
If thats the case,then I agree,pld/rdm is actually very good. Can some paladins out there give me some advice on what kind of damage levels a really well equiped pld without defender can expect to take? The only real problem is how to hold hate. Spamming enfeebles like gravity will help. Sleep generates hate,but the biggest hate grabber is healing. You will need a thf,if you have one,you should be ok. A good theif can make the bard hold hate. (ive seen it happen,its funny,yet tragic)
The hardest part will be getting a party to accept it. Most people think most of a paladins hate holding ability comes from provoke. They dont understand how little voke really does.(THis is why you get bad pld that ONLY voke,and dont know why they are not holding hate)

Dont mind him,hes just stupid like that,said the same thing to me.I think he either got to 70 or something and thinks hes all teh ****,or is pretending hes 70 and trying to act cool.

61rdm here, i'm not 75, i've never fought a god, but i have spent a whole lot of time solo. The above is correct.

Secondly, mage blink gives 2 blinks, always, you may evade, you may parry you may paralyze but even with my capped 224 enhancing skill, I have never gotten more or less than 2 blinks.

^^/ cheers

Yes it does, the best spell to do it with is escape, that spell takes so damn long to cast, cast it, check the recast. haste yourself, recast, and check it, you'll find it is several seconds closer to recast than the first test.

Ninjas and war/nins live by the fact that haste decreaces their utsusemi timer.

True nuff.

Claims to have three lv75 Jobs...which either means he bought his account, started early and spends a little too much time playing, or possibly started after I did and spends way too much time playing. But either way, he's the kind of person who thinks that once you get to 75 you're automaticly 'omgwtfimuber LISTEN TO ME I KNOW ALL NOOBS DUNT USE BST THEY TAKE TEH EXPZ LOL!!!!'. I've met R10 idiots, and i've met Rank 3 players who you'd think started over.

/derail off

Um.....yeah......./RDM...go! >_>

*blush* yeah them too ^^/