Crow/Raven gear has hidden effect?Follow

Okay, either this stuff is buggy, or has a hidden effect not listed.

I decided to snag two pieces for my Summoner for when I end up Main Healing. I macroed the hat and body into my Cure spells along with my usual Light Staff. I had -15 enmity.

I got an exp party, and we went to party in Cape Terrigan off crabs and pugils. At first I was really into it, swapping my Crow and Austere constantly for summons and cures, and I thought it was working great.

Then I noticed I was getting hate. A lot. Two Cure III's and I had a fish kicking my ***. This should not be, especially not with -15 enmity. And why wasn't I evading even a single hit? I had a lot of +evasion as well!

I swapped the gear out of my macros, and cured in my Austere, and got less hate. I was curing the exact same way.
Now, when my WHM had -17 enmity or so, I could even dump the mega-hate-generating Cure IV on a NIN tank halfway through a mob's health and still not pull hate. I could go nuts curing and the mob never even looked my way. So why is it with -15 enmity at level 57, I'm getting hate for a single Cure spell?

A few other people I've talked to about this have reported similiar things. The suspicion: Either the Crow gear is buggy, or has a hidden/latent effect on it that we are unaware of. I could see SE being sick enough in the head to say, "Hey, let's add a bunch of +evasion -enmity items! Like say, -7 enmity, +8 evasion! But wait! We'll have a hidden effect of +20 enmity, -20 evasion! It'll be great! haha!" XD


If anyone else can report their finding, please post here. I'm hopeful it's just a little buggy, and that it will be fixed tomorrow in the huge update. If not, this stuff is a huge rip-off, and unfortunately not worth the gil. ;___;


*edit: I type gewd. ._.

Edited, Wed Oct 12 23:43:48 2005 by Shotie

I'm going to go with 'random bad luck'.

And I'm going to blame Screwdriver for that ;p
SMN's specialty isn't in hate controlled healing, and that attack is simply nasty in the higher levels.

I've been running around in Crow Hat, Body, and Feet all day.
I think I'd of been dead on my feet at least twelve times already if the gear didn't do as advertised.

But who knows?
Maybe it has an effect reversal on a certain day?
Maybe Enmity - has a point of Diminishing Return?


Edited, Thu Oct 13 00:06:20 2005 by TwilightVigil

My point with the bread was that, even if more GOOD things happen than BAD, people only notice what makes them misrible.


Like kidnappings. Over the past few years, media coverage on kidnappings have gone up quite a bit, people think kidnapping is out of control nowadays. but it's going down.



Just take a break, and try later.

Yeah, but three hours straight of it? Statistically speaking, I should have accidentally evaded a few hits when I got hate, which was a lot. XD With -15 enmity, it should be almost impossible to get hate, let alone from a Cure II or Cure III.

Anyway, the point of this thread was to see if anyone else had had a similar problem with it, since in some of the other communities I'd seen a few people report similar results. I was curious how widespread it was.

Well, yes. The cures themselves aren't any different.
But any WHM cure-spamming past Yhutunga needs a serious five across the face.
Just curious, what's your evasion skill at?



//edit:
Because I like experimenting:

Just went out and antagonized a few Qufim Mobs with Stoneskin on. (meaning, I wasn't losing hate by losing HP)

Bat:
Watersday 17:00
Delt 326 Damage with my Staff, Disengaged, Summoned Carby.
He swung once for 132, didn't get hate. Swung again for 132 and got hate.

326 vs. 246 (or less)


Crab:
Watersday: 21:00
Delt 338 damage with my Staff, Disengaged, Summoned Carby.
He missed once, and Swung again for 122 and got hate.

338 vs. 122 (+ minimal miss hate)


Giant:
Windsday: 3:00
Delt 479 Damage with my Staff, Disengaged, Summoned Carby.
He swung once for 124, didn't get Hate. Swung again for 124, did get Hate.

479 vs. 248 (or less)


Weapon:
Windsday: 8:00
Delt 414 damage with my Staff, Disengaged, Summoned Carby.
He swung once for 113, didn't get hate. Swung again for 114, and did get hate.

414 vs. 227 (or less)

Also noting my other gear just for the sake of science, Silk Cuffs, Apollo's Staff, and Capricornus Subligar Pair of Electrums, Gramary Cape, Onyx Earring, Reraise Earring, Holy Phial, Fortune Egg.
As far as I know, none of that has any hidden enmity effects.



The -Enmity, at least, seems to be working fine.
Even did one in the Daytime just in case.

/edit:
Crow Gaiters, Jupon, and Beret ;p

Edited, Thu Oct 13 09:52:18 2005 by TwilightVigil

While I've not tested it and have no particular interest to, it seems like something that'd be deliciously evil if the stats only kicked in while you actually had hate.

Think about it, as evasion helps you dodge hits (though some people think it's a cure all, when you're a mage, you're not gonna dodge much from an IT mob), and the added -enmity of your subsequent actions can help the tank get hate back.

As far as I understand it
(and I don't claim to be goddess of knowledge or anything, so if the wise Kojiro would pipe up about his cryptic message, all the better.):

Regular gear + Stoneskin would be basically even numbers on both sides.

Because hate is gained by taking away a mob's HP. And Hate is lost by losing your own HP. Keeping stoneskin on yourself should null your Hate loss (much how NIN Tanking used to work before the Utsusemi Hate Loss patch), meaning only hate gain superior to the hate you currently have would take the mob's attention away.

If a large amount of time had passed between me disengaging and summoning, then people can argue that there's a theory floating around that says hate fades with time irreguardless of any other factor.
But these fights were over in less than 20 seconds.
While I'm open to the idea that Time erases Hate and that mobs have a Memory, somehow the thought of Provoke's effects being erased after a few seconds doesn't seem quite right.

Maybe if these numbers were very near eachother, there'd be room for doubt. But the amount of Damage/Hate Carbuncle had to amass was about half of the Damage/Hate I'd built up. To me, that's pretty eyebrow raising.


Edited, Thu Oct 13 01:59:21 2005 by TwilightVigil

Edited, Thu Oct 13 02:38:46 2005 by TwilightVigil

Damn.
You just had to ask nicely, didn't you?
I wanted to go to bed. ;_;


OK. Some Naked Numbers.


Qufim again, using Apollo Staff, and nothing but an Apollo's staff.

Ice day: 17:00
Weapon:
395 with Staff, Dis, Carby.
Carby 128, Carby 116, Carby 125 - got hate.

395 vs. 369 (or less)


Bats:
360 Staff, Dis, Carby.
Carby 124, Carby 126, Carby 132 - got hate.

360 vs. 382 (or less)


ok. bedtime.

Well, you're probably not evading because SMN evasion skill is crap. It's E rank, so it caps at 200 at lv. 75. Even with a full +Evasion setup, you're going to be lagging behind other classes with a higher skill like THF, NIN or MNK. THF and NIN, who have the highest rated evasion still have to load up evasion gear to reliably dodge attacks from EXP mobs.

The other night I bought a full set of Crow gear, mostly because it was shiny and new and I had a bunch of gil from some recent farming (gil burns holes in my pocket >_> ) I planned on wearing it during my next CoP outing.

Later that night, my Thf friend says he wants to go check on Ose. I agree to help, and when we arrive we find him spawned already. We pull it and start to work on him. (we were Pld Thf Drk Rdm(me))

Now due to some crazy link stuff that happened before the pull (would take to long to explain) we weren't exactly in the best of shape. That being said, I was hastily buffing and curing the Pld and trying to keep the party alive. I pull out my joyeuse and start hacking away... and you see this sword is still new to me so I am not used to its hate-pulling powers. Needless to say after spamming cure and double-attacking a few times, Ose had his eyes set on me @.@;

I kinda paniced... I was running out of MP and needed to convert, but doing so would only draw more hate upon myself. I checked my inventory for possible MP items... and noticed the crows gear. I hurriedly slapped it on (by this time I had stopped meleeing), waited for Ose to get tired of smacking me, and hit the convert macro. Converted, Cured myself to full, and Ose didn't even blink and eye at me.

I am confident that, had I not been wearing the crows equip, Ose would have decided it was time to introduce me to his fangs. I think I will be keeping this gear around just in case...

On a side note, Rdm Main Healer + Joyeuse = <mistake>. I'm glad I learned that lesson early XD

Works fine for me, I can still Divine Seal> Curaga without getting hate, and i evade a lot of attacks.

That's just while wearing like... 3 pieces.

Ok what if by removing the item with -enmity it in a way removes it and puts the full hate you would have to it's max as if you never had it? So say your armor has -8 enmity so by taking it off you remove that and the hate you would have its now to it's fullest.

But you put on the armor again and the hate doesn't drop but any new hate the -enmity works on.

Only question I have for you.
Did you ever take it off during fight?