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FFXi Server Emulator ReleaseFollow

#102 Aug 31 2006 at 1:00 PM Rating: Decent
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The above poster is correct, but it would not be a scam. It would simply give you an error saying the login information entered is incorrect until you accually go and register an account for the server, unless the server is setup to automatic registration where you simple enter your desired login info and it registers it for you on your 1st login.

Its common sense, dont use your real info regardless. Otherwise, have fun playing if one is every released.
#103 Aug 31 2006 at 1:04 PM Rating: Excellent
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The One and Only Deadgye wrote:
If you were you use an emulated server, why the fuck would you use your normal account and password over some random one?


See, this is the one thing that always seemed so fishy to me.

Anyway, to very clearly delinate the legal problem with ProjectXI, we have to look at the questions individually:

1) Is is illegal (a violation of the US Copyright Act) to produce an FFXI Server Emulator?
No. The developers have no access to the FFXI Server code, therefore they cannot copy it. If there is no copy, there is no infringement of copyright.

2) Is it a violation of the software EULA?
Yes, if the FFXI Server or Client software is used to reverse engineer the FFXI network protocols, then it is a violation of the EULA.

3) Does the EULA have legal standing?
Yes. It is considered a contract and is subject to the contract laws of the State of California.

4) Did the ProjectXI developers enter in to a contractual agreement with Square-Enix containing restrictions against reverse engineering the FFXI software?
Yes, if they have installed the game, they have agreed with the terms of and become a party to the contract.

5) Does the fair use clause (which allows reverse engineering) of the US Copyright Act override the contractual restrictions against reverse engineering contained in the FFXI EULA?
No. According to the US Court of Appeals for the 8th Circuit, the Copyright Act does not hold precedence over state contract law in cases where the contract restricts fair use.

6) Are the members of ProjectXI in danger of legal action by Square-Enix?
Yes. Square-Enix can claim to the court that the members of ProjectXI are in breech of the contract (EULA). The court can order ProjectXI to cease its activities and turn over any materials and code developed through reverse engineering to Square-Enix.

7) Are the members of ProjectXI in danger of criminal prosecutions?
No. Conflicts over contract law are civil matters, and as long as no criminal statutes are violated, no party to a contract can be prosecuted or jailed.
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#104 Aug 31 2006 at 1:30 PM Rating: Good
MIstress' last post is kinda right. Any true emulation would have it's own loging system.



Quote:
So what? theres like 300+ RO private servers too; And hey guess what? They're all emulated using stolen code from the original which = illegal. The ONLY private servers that aren't illegal *****, would be ones that aren't reversed engineered but using their OWN original coding as it's heart, and the graphics as it's shell.


Im sorry this is where you are wrong. Emulators use their own code. Nothing from the official servers.

to prove this point. Prometheus is written in delphi. AEGIS the official software is written in C. 2 totally different languages.

Emulator devs write th ecode by hand themselves, which is why emulators are almost never just like official and why there are always bugs.

Therefore game companies cannot claim ownership of them because they wrote none of the code.

Quote:
Oh is that all they are doing? Good, copyright infringment. SE owns the Valkurm Emperor AND the code that controls him.


They own THERE server coed. If i wrote a emulator that would be MY code, they have no rights to it. The only rights they have are to the executables. if those are modified by the emu creators then they would have legal issue. Most emu devs know thhis so their #1 rule. No client modding and no discusion of hexing said clients.

SE does NOT own code they didn;t write. thats ludicris. thats like Apple wantng to copyright the word "pod"

Quote:
Read the Terms of Service you agreed with when you signed up.


Yes it is against THEIR rules. but EULA's donot make law. it is not against the LAW to do it. so while they can ban you from their servers, thats all they can do.

Quote:
Actually, it is very illegal to do this. You don't own ANY RIGHTs to FFXI, SE owns EVERYTHING even your character. So unless it's your own code (which I highly doubt it is), it's illegal. I know for a fact many MMO companies don't approve "Private Servers, though I know there is one Private RO server that is a complete recode of the original RO engine, which infact, Grvaity can't do anything about, because it's their own code inside, but the RO shell on the outside. So basically, this won't ever happen, till you can somehow get past POL, which you can't. And even if you do, you'll be sued in an instant. But, to each his own I guess..I'll be waiting for the "omg i'm getting sued by SE ; ;" posts :)


to the game.. No we dont ( even though we should.... used to be that you bought a game and you owned it.. there wa snever a 50 page long EULA ) But writing your OWN code to emulate FFXI is fine. Not illegal and you own it.

US law ALSO allows for independant users the right to edit any EXE they own, as long as it is not distributed. This is called "Educational purpose" Again. the EULA may say SE doesnt like it. and they can ban you for it. but a EULA doesn;t trump the law. It is our right to do this. has been for years ( even though that idiot bush is trying to stop us from having those rights with his revised DMCA )




This topic has alot of good points. but also points from people who have no idea what they are talking about.


ProjectFFXI is technically illegal. they use SE's login system still. WHich can inturn open your info to malicous use.

If they were to create their own login code then it wouldnt be "illegal"

Having a FFXI ps would be fun to play around with, I still firmly believe FFXI is good enough to where if you do PS you shoul dkeep your Official account active and pay the monthly fee for the game. they deserve it for giving us years of perfection.


but a pserv would benifit alot of people. Gravitys and NCSOFTS user base jumped since the creation of those emulators. people played they liked and the got the games and pay monthly for them.. free publicity.


On another note. emulation creation is key for some programers. This is how they evolve on their own with this technology, allowing for in the future them to obtain a decent programing job and do real programing. companies like game companies would hire someone ho has realife game server programing under their belt.



then you have my other point. where in many cases pserv technology has allowed regular users to fix ( with no bugs ) things the game company can't, like the EQ Boats. Mainly because emulators are all open source, which provides better bug fixing.
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#105 Aug 31 2006 at 1:35 PM Rating: Good
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Spre, Eater of Souls wrote:
Yes it is against THEIR rules. but EULA's donot make law. it is not against the LAW to do it. so while they can ban you from their servers, thats all they can do.


I just need to respond to this because you are echoing a very common misconception. EULAs are contracts, and they can and are enforced by the courts.
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#106 Aug 31 2006 at 1:47 PM Rating: Decent
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If your foolish enough to think that you could login to an emulated server with your current POL ID and password, you probably deserve to be scammed.Anyone with logic an intellect wouldn't fall for that kind of scam.

I absolutely would love to get my hands on the server code, and be able to run an emulated server. If for no reason other than I would be MORE than glad to play on my PC on an emulated server alone. I would, of course, need to be able to modify some settings and set [GM] status, but I would gladly play XI by myself. I, naturally, would also make logins for my RL friends that play XI and we could all start over together and accomplish all the things in game together that we originally wanted to (as it stands now, we're all close to quitting). It would also give us the leisure to progress the game at our own pace, as opposed to paying a ton of money to progress slowly.

I am an Squaresoft fan, always have been since FF1. What sucks about XI is once they pull the plug, thats it, the entire game is gone never to return. If someone, anyone, IS doing server emulation, I want a copy, not a login to an emulated server, but the code itself, so I can play it at home, and make logins for my friends (I would, of course, require information as to how to get them to login to my machine, but still). I would probably even be willing to buy the server code for a reasonable price.


-Edit- Minor grammar thingies.


Edited, Aug 31st 2006 at 3:09pm EDT by DrkMage
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#107 Aug 31 2006 at 2:05 PM Rating: Default
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I'm not an expert, but here's my opinion based on my limited knowledge.

As long as they write their own server code (and I mean all of the server code), it is legal to have a private server.

Due to the fact that they are running their server code (not the client software) they are not agreeing to the EULA and are therefore not restricted by it.

The server would not be using any of the copyrighted material (images, game engine, storyline etc.) as it is all client side.

The people who MIGHT be breaking some law somewhere are the users who agreed to the EULA when installing the client side software that they purchased, which I beleive is covered under contract law in most developed countries.

They might not have to break SE's or POL's encryption to actually run the game, they could just write their own login software to start FFXI with and point it at a different IP address.
#108 Aug 31 2006 at 2:43 PM Rating: Excellent
I can't believe this thread is still active, but nonetheless ...

The legality issue is much more hairy now in the days of the DMCA. This overly-broad law makes it illegal in the US to unlock encryption for the sake of accessing copyrighted material. It could be asserted that reverse-engineering the packet encryption to allow access to the copyrighted game is in and of itself illegal, even if they didn't use any of Square-Enix's code to do it. I'm not saying that this argument necessarily holds merit, but I don't think a case specificially like this (theoretical) one has been tested in court yet?

That said, the OP is spouting pure BS. The truth is that it would be fairly easy to develop a server that interacts with the FFXI client in the same way that the official servers do; however, there is a LOT more to the equation than simply the code to facilitate the client interaction itself. The amount of research necessary to precisely emulate every monster behavior in the game, not to mention spawn and wandering areas, damage calculations for every monster attack in the game, etc., all of which is calculated pretty much exclusively on the server side, would require a monumental effort on the part of many people to accomplish, and even so, it would only be possible to approximate monster behavior. The fact that the OP said that it was even a possibility to create emulated servers that behave "exactly" like Square-Enix's servers shows that he has no idea what he is talking about.

Not to mention that anyone who has access to an OC-192 connection would never say anything remotely close to "it will be hosted directly on that connection." This is for a number of reasons, but one of the primary ones is that any company that requires the resources of an OC-192 would have a backbone meshed from several different providers and made up of several different connections for redundancy. A server would never be "hosted directly" on an OC-192.

Edited, Aug 31st 2006 at 3:49pm EDT by FFXISykes
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#109 Aug 31 2006 at 2:47 PM Rating: Decent
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Dude, there's a lot more to the code running on SE's servers than just calculating a bunch of combat damage.
#110Spre, Eater of Souls, Posted: Aug 31 2006 at 3:15 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) It's cake for a decentprogramer to do all that happens on the official servers.
#111 Aug 31 2006 at 3:21 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Spare me. Anybody competant enough to create a FFXI server emulator worth a **** isn't stupid enough to NOT make their own game instead. "Made own MMORPG" would look a lot better on a resume than "reverse-engineered Square-Enix's Final Fantasy XI server software".

Or is the Project XI team really that @#%^ing retarded?


No.. Maybe they actually are as frustrated as everyone else when it comes to RMT issues.

I personally am really happy that someone is attempting this. I would never actually go over to that side of the fence, but it is exactly this type of rebellious behavior among gamers that makes change.

Take a look at PSO, the only reason why that still has life in it is because the fan base basically emulated the game after it was shut down. Look what they have now? PSOBB.

Stop jumping on a group of activists until you really do know what their intentions are. They say it because they are furious about the RMT situation, well.... maybe that’s why they are doing it. I never saw an "Our server will only cost you $9.99 a month" offer did you?

Maybe they will have enough Cajones to actually IP ban the entire Chinese mainland, which no MMO provider has done as of yet... Unfortunately.


Edited, Aug 31st 2006 at 4:28pm EDT by patient
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#112 Aug 31 2006 at 3:23 PM Rating: Good
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Spre, Eater of Souls wrote:
It's cake for a decentprogramer to do all that happens on the official servers.
So you're saying what it takes a entire gaming company's payroll a few years to produce, any decent programmer can duplicate for free in a few months?

I haven't played RO and so I can't compare the real game to the emulator, but I really find it hard to believe that any homebrew program could emulate with 99.9% effectiveness, a probably multimillion dollar corporate undertaking.
#113 Aug 31 2006 at 3:41 PM Rating: Good
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I actually think a comprimise could be had.

SE could rent servers for modification for like a quarterly fee while still collecting our $12.95+.

Pros:
1) Game would still be legally kept up to date with bug fixes and add-ons.
2) "Play at your own risk" can be applied more directly to player moderation.
3) Those covering the lease are then free to edit whatever they see fit.
4) Can adapt the World Pass feature with an added registration code from the lease holder for access so people can't just spam create new chars or call in "friends".
5) Players could discover/fix bugs with code access.

Cons:
1) Potential conflicts with updates and prior tweaks.
2) Rogue GMing could be possible, but back-ups and committees can be established to curtail it.
3) Edits may just plain suck.
4) People could find easier ways to hack the real system.
5) The lease holder will need to have money to burn for rent or turn around collecting from those he's invited.

Overall, the cons aren't much different than what we have now. Areas, quests, and monsters can hit the game bugged. GMing is rather laughable despite their supposed investigations. SE loves to add useless gear. And finally, hackers are persistant, anyway. Active moderation wouldn't give them free access to a test playground for long.
#114 Aug 31 2006 at 3:54 PM Rating: Decent
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If you think SE does a bad job of policing RMT, hackers, and botters, just wait til you see how well someone does the job when they aren't getting paid for it.
#115 Aug 31 2006 at 3:58 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
I haven't played RO and so I can't compare the real game to the emulator, but I really find it hard to believe that any homebrew program could emulate with 99.9% effectiveness, a probably multimillion dollar corporate undertaking.


Programming is all about streamlining your code, attempting to recycle that code as much as possible, and simultaneously making it easy enough to understand (while being documented along the way) so someone else can take over for you for whatever reason.

In short, most monsters have a pretty dumb base AI:
1) Melee mobs just chase and hack away aimlessly at the person with hate, using a TP move at various HP intervals.
2) Caster mobs use a spell once every 10-15 seconds if they can, behavior slightly modified if they have Manafront or Chainspell active. Otherwise, they stay glued to the person with hate while also using TP moves.
3) Your novelty mobs that give up at x% HP, flee when near death, warp around, summon buddies, two hour, whatever.

The third category would be the hardest, yeah, but those monsters aren't nearly as numerous as those who would fall under one and two. And even then, the third could borrow code from pre-existing versions creating hybrids.

Overall, things like damage formulae have already been reversed engineered. It's just a matter of the programmers learning what the variables are called by the game and then telling the new code to look there. People would then be free to plug in whatever values along the way to ease or harden the gaming experience.

The hard part, creating the game core and graphical system, has been done for them. This is why a lot of good programmers just don't pick up and make their own game because rendering software costs a metric sh*t-ton while you can pick up a code compiler for much cheaper, if you don't just pirate something outright. Furthermore, unless you do it alone, you need cash to pay others to create these systems from the ground up. From there, there's simply no guarantee people will play your game and return revenue. It ties into my comment about recycling quite nicely, really. Are coders then thieves? In a way. Of course, so are artists, musicians, authors, and whatever other creative profession you can point at. Very little is original/unique anymore.

SE doesn't always make quality games. However, they have the luxury of their successes to cover for their failures. Money and connections make the world go 'round, and it's certainly the sheer lack of it that prevents many would-be programmers from making the leap.

Quote:
If you think SE does a bad job of policing RMT, hackers, and botters, just wait til you see how well someone does the job when they aren't getting paid for it.


This is where a smaller server population and the ability to ammend your code comes to your advantage. People moderating these servers won't have to supervise 500000 subscribers. No, they'd probably be lucky to see 150.

It's rare people give a sh*t about this, but I used to help maintain and run a server for a Diablo II modification. We kept the community small, utilizing a message board to get know each other outside of the game. All of us knew that D2 was plagued by hacks. People who had infinite HP, item dupes, map hacking, etc.. We didn't want to be a part of it AT ALL. In a party environment, these were all actually pretty easy to spot. For example, when you're in some random generated dungeon and a guy just so happens to go to the waypoint/exit without making a wrong turn, you get suspicious. All character data was also viewable by an outside PERL script that let ANYBODY see what you had equipped or even in your inventory. Nevermind the fact an administrator could just download your character outright and look at it in a solo environment.

People don't get paid to do neighborhood watches, but that doesn't stop them from still wanting to keep crime down in their area.

Edited, Aug 31st 2006 at 5:07pm EDT by Seriha
#116 Aug 31 2006 at 4:13 PM Rating: Good
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Spre, lover of Trigun wrote:
Avhmia wrote:

I just need to respond to this because you are echoing a very common misconception. EULAs are contracts, and they can and are enforced by the courts.


But contracts cannot infringe on what we have by rights in law. this is another law that was made for that purpose. no person anila or piece of paper can infringe on our rights by law. and untill reverseengineering for educational purposes is removed from law, we have a right to do it.

This is the type of thing that limit new young minds from achieving goals and geting a career in programing.


Contracts can infringe on what you have in terms of property and finance, not to mention future.

People stretching the idea of reverse engineering for educational purposes to cover piracy is going to get it removed from law, and limit a lot more than young minds achieving goals. It's going to force governments to give companies a stranglehold on who is allowed to learn in order to keep the last of the IT business giants from setting up shops in Bangalore. Abuse of rights to cover things we know are theft is a good way to end up forfeiting rights.

Just try putting something like 'created ffxi emulator' on your resume and see if anybody wants to hire you for anything, ever. If you're already stealing from a company before they let you in the doors, nobody will ever want to give you any more access than you already have.

My Mia is like a 6th dan blackbelt programminatrix, and if she had done this kind of juvenile crap while she was a teenager, she would not have the security clearance to work the job she has now, nor the lower-level job that led to this one. Technophobia runs rampant in well-paying technical fields. Encouraging young minds to explore ******* companies off as a means of learning is not a way to secure their futures.
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#117 Aug 31 2006 at 4:24 PM Rating: Decent
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*cough* With great power comes an even greater responsibility?
#118 Aug 31 2006 at 4:41 PM Rating: Good
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All of this is besides the point. Reverse engineering the server code may well be legal. In fact, if it isn't, it should be. The problem is, *you can't legally replicate the content*. Square-Enix *owns* Vana'diel. Square-Enix owns the Valkurm Emperor the same way Disney owns Mickey Mouse. Bastok, Jeuno, the various NMs and items, you can't legally use *any* of them.

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#119 Aug 31 2006 at 4:44 PM Rating: Decent
Mindel wrote:
The One and Only Deadgye wrote:
If you were you use an emulated server, why the fuck would you use your normal account and password over some random one?


See, this is the one thing that always seemed so fishy to me.

Anyway, to very clearly delinate the legal problem with ProjectXI, we have to look at the questions individually:

1) Is is illegal (a violation of the US Copyright Act) to produce an FFXI Server Emulator?
No. The developers have no access to the FFXI Server code, therefore they cannot copy it. If there is no copy, there is no infringement of copyright.

2) Is it a violation of the software EULA?
Yes, if the FFXI Server or Client software is used to reverse engineer the FFXI network protocols, then it is a violation of the EULA.

3) Does the EULA have legal standing?
Yes. It is considered a contract and is subject to the contract laws of the State of California.

4) Did the ProjectXI developers enter in to a contractual agreement with Square-Enix containing restrictions against reverse engineering the FFXI software?
Yes, if they have installed the game, they have agreed with the terms of and become a party to the contract.

5) Does the fair use clause (which allows reverse engineering) of the US Copyright Act override the contractual restrictions against reverse engineering contained in the FFXI EULA?
No. According to the US Court of Appeals for the 8th Circuit, the Copyright Act does not hold precedence over state contract law in cases where the contract restricts fair use.

6) Are the members of ProjectXI in danger of legal action by Square-Enix?
Yes. Square-Enix can claim to the court that the members of ProjectXI are in breech of the contract (EULA). The court can order ProjectXI to cease its activities and turn over any materials and code developed through reverse engineering to Square-Enix.

7) Are the members of ProjectXI in danger of criminal prosecutions?
No. Conflicts over contract law are civil matters, and as long as no criminal statutes are violated, no party to a contract can be prosecuted or jailed.


Hurrah!

SCAM
Smiley: spam
SCAM

Any way you look at it they are going to scam you and end up in jail for copyright infringement.
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#120 Aug 31 2006 at 4:46 PM Rating: Decent
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lol @ at the people in this thread. Now I remember why I don't visit alla very often.

OMGGGG SCAAAM!!1
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#121 Aug 31 2006 at 5:15 PM Rating: Default
Mindel wrote:
Quinsisdos wrote:
Aren't you a sock?


Why yes, Quinsi, GandalfWizard is in fact our good friend GeorgLeviathan's sock. :) (AKA MexicanBackhoe, AKA BillyBobLovesRMT)

Edited, Aug 31st 2006 at 9:41am EDT by Mindel


Really you call my wife my sock? haha how abotu you two being eachother socks?

So Quin is for SE Private servers and giving up his level 60 job after 2.5 years?

Didnt you quit like a year ago Quin?

No beef with minidel, she doing great on knocking this thread down :)
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