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FFXi Server Emulator ReleaseFollow

#77 Aug 31 2006 at 9:33 AM Rating: Default
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You're not getting the point :P

If they distrabute the Client software (akin to ripping carts) then YES, this is illegal.

All they are doing is replacing SEs 1's and 0's that make the Valkurm Emperor spawn, with their own. There is no law that states the FFXI client HAS TO interact SOLELY with the SE server. All these people do is create a means to access the game via a different method.

Back to your Console Emulator analogy, basically they are writing the emu, and you already have the ROMs/ISOs yourself to play on it.
#79 Aug 31 2006 at 9:41 AM Rating: Decent
Kordain wrote:
You're not getting the point :P

If they distrabute the Client software (akin to ripping carts) then YES, this is illegal.

All they are doing is replacing SEs 1's and 0's that make the Valkurm Emperor spawn, with their own. There is no law that states the FFXI client HAS TO interact SOLELY with the SE server. All these people do is create a means to access the game via a different method.

Back to your Console Emulator analogy, basically they are writing the emu, and you already have the ROMs/ISOs yourself to play on it.


Read the Terms of Service you agreed with when you signed up.

Jail you can have this is you do this.
#80 Aug 31 2006 at 10:01 AM Rating: Good
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It is illegal, but not in the way you think. In the US you have the DCMA, Digital Copyright Millenia Act or some such rubbish, basically to get the FFXI server emulator to run, you have to crack its encryption, right? The DCMA makes it an offence to circumnavigate protection mechanisms, so by cracking the encryption, you are breaking the DCMA.

The same sort of laws exist all over, its why its illegal to sell chips for the PS2/Xbox, as they can bypass security measures that prevent copied discs from being played.

Copyright and Patents? In the EU you are not allowed to patent software (in theory).
#81 Aug 31 2006 at 10:03 AM Rating: Decent
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Meh, as fun as it is arguing about grey laws that even lawyers have trouble pinning down, I think Ill just stop there.

What I will say though is whether it is legal or illegal, if SE find you have broken their TOS for FFXI they can in the very least cancel your account and stop you playing. Something to heed for people who are interested in this sort of thing.
#82 Aug 31 2006 at 10:05 AM Rating: Decent
Quote:
ou're not getting the point :P

No you're not getting the point.

Quote:
If they distrabute the Client software (akin to ripping carts) then YES, this is illegal.


Very good, but you also forget the software on thr servers is also SE's.

Quote:
All they are doing is replacing SEs 1's and 0's that make the Valkurm Emperor spawn, with their own.


Oh is that all they are doing? Good, copyright infringment. SE owns the Valkurm Emperor AND the code that controls him.

Quote:
There is no law that states the FFXI client HAS TO interact SOLELY with the SE server. All these people do is create a means to access the game via a different method.


A game that SE owns.

Quote:
Back to your Console Emulator analogy, basically they are writing the emu, and you already have the ROMs/ISOs yourself to play on it.


Wow, this is so wrong. The Client is the means through which you play the game, it is the console. The ROM is the server code itself. Get the picture? If they wrote their own client, that would be ok, except that it violated the TOS 3rd party software clause.

No matter what justifications you attempt to make, this is 100% totally illegal.


#83 Aug 31 2006 at 10:06 AM Rating: Good
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I'd love to play around with server software in private network, but as long as the developers just put up a server somewhere in the world, it's pretty much pointless for me.

It's not like I hate the the situation on Fairy that much that I want to start over on some alpha staged software. Release some binaries or source code, then we'll talk :P

By the way, has anyone verified that the OP is indeed one of the developers? Could just be some kid that registered with the same name on Allakhazam...
#84 Aug 31 2006 at 10:10 AM Rating: Default

Read the Terms of Service you agreed with when you signed up.

Jail you can have this is you do this.




I thought I told you to go take a shower, hippie!
#85 Aug 31 2006 at 10:16 AM Rating: Good
NeoChikara wrote:
Blah Blah Blah


Fire, you can go die in it now, thanks.
#87 Aug 31 2006 at 10:45 AM Rating: Decent
Soracloud, King of Bards wrote:
NeoChikara wrote:
Blah Blah Blah


Fire, you can go die in it now, thanks.


Ya, you guys can do your best to trick maybe a couple noobs on here but the people you want to trick wont be that dumb i bet you! The only way you will succeed is if you make a server where you start from scratch, from level 1. If that is your plan then try all you want but why waste all your time and money on these servers, doing this outta your momma's basement, to make nothing? I'd gladly pay the monthly fee to have my character and no worry of it being stolen or corrupt or erased. Starting from scratch after 3 years of work? No way.

edit: write me a postcard from jail?

Serious Question: How do you plan on getting everyone to give up all their work into their characters and joining your "free" servers? This may have worked within the first year of release but not after 3 years.


~If you plan on getting them their characters, how are you going to break the codes and get all the on server information for each character?

~If you can get that information then why dont you just dupe and sell gil?

~Reason is you can't and you just want to steal ID's, correct ?



Edited, Aug 31st 2006 at 11:55am EDT by GanondolfWizard
#88 Aug 31 2006 at 11:04 AM Rating: Good
darkffxi wrote:
IT IS NOT illegal to do this there IS a loophole


You're right in one respect. Creating an emulator is not an illegal act in itself. However, in Vivendi v. Jung, the 8th appellate court upheld the legality of provisions in Vivendi's EULA that disallowed any reverse engineering of the software. Square-Enix's EULA contains the same provisions. Essentially, you are perfectly free to create an FFXI server emulator as long as you do not reverse engineer any Square-Enix software to do so.

When you install or run your FFXI client, you agree to the EULA and the TOS. These contracts are entered voluntarily, and they prohibit you from performing any reverse engineering of the software. This leaves the ProjectXI people in an actionable position.
#89 Aug 31 2006 at 11:09 AM Rating: Good
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Kordain wrote:
You're not getting the point :P

If they distrabute the Client software (akin to ripping carts) then YES, this is illegal.

All they are doing is replacing SEs 1's and 0's that make the Valkurm Emperor spawn, with their own. There is no law that states the FFXI client HAS TO interact SOLELY with the SE server. All these people do is create a means to access the game via a different method.

Back to your Console Emulator analogy, basically they are writing the emu, and you already have the ROMs/ISOs yourself to play on it.


A client server application is protected as a whole. You cannot change modify its intended use, or change its function in any way and expect to be within your license agreement.

#90 Aug 31 2006 at 11:25 AM Rating: Decent
Mindel wrote:
darkffxi wrote:
IT IS NOT illegal to do this there IS a loophole


You're right in one respect. Creating an emulator is not an illegal act in itself. However, in Vivendi v. Jung, the 8th appellate court upheld the legality of provisions in Vivendi's EULA that disallowed any reverse engineering of the software. Square-Enix's EULA contains the same provisions. Essentially, you are perfectly free to create an FFXI server emulator as long as you do not reverse engineer any Square-Enix software to do so.

When you install or run your FFXI client, you agree to the EULA and the TOS. These contracts are entered voluntarily, and they prohibit you from performing any reverse engineering of the software. This leaves the ProjectXI people in an actionable position.


Good job minidel Smiley: smile

And since they said they were trying to reverse enfineer the software, BOOM!
#91 Aug 31 2006 at 11:51 AM Rating: Default
There are easily 300+ Lineage 2 private servers being advertised daily, and its possible to continue playing the official L2 servers hosted by NCsoft AND play on a Private Server AT THE SAME TIME! Its not that hard to run multiple clients of the game at once, and just have 1 connected to the official server and 1 connected to a private server. The same concept can be applied to FFXI, and given the right amount of time a team could easily create a legal FFXI private server, that could be played during times when the official ffxi server might be down, or where you want to test something or get bored. The law is like a block of swiss cheese; sure its fairly solid but their are holes everywhere. Even the TOS and EULA has holes that can be exploited if you know enough about how agreements like this work, and you can basically have a company like SE or NCsoft bend just because their own agreements got twisted against them. Why do you think they periodically amend or change these things? Its because people find loopholes and use them against the company. If a FFXI private server became avaliable, I am sure there are a lot of people that would be willing to play on it.
#92 Aug 31 2006 at 12:06 PM Rating: Good
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Ghaji wrote:
There are easily 300+ Lineage 2 private servers being advertised daily, and its possible to continue playing the official L2 servers hosted by NCsoft AND play on a Private Server AT THE SAME TIME! Its not that hard to run multiple clients of the game at once, and just have 1 connected to the official server and 1 connected to a private server. The same concept can be applied to FFXI, and given the right amount of time a team could easily create a legal FFXI private server, that could be played during times when the official ffxi server might be down, or where you want to test something or get bored. The law is like a block of swiss cheese; sure its fairly solid but their are holes everywhere. Even the TOS and EULA has holes that can be exploited if you know enough about how agreements like this work, and you can basically have a company like SE or NCsoft bend just because their own agreements got twisted against them. Why do you think they periodically amend or change these things? Its because people find loopholes and use them against the company. If a FFXI private server became avaliable, I am sure there are a lot of people that would be willing to play on it.


So what? theres like 300+ RO private servers too; And hey guess what? They're all emulated using stolen code from the original which = illegal. The ONLY private servers that aren't illegal perse, would be ones that aren't reversed engineered but using their OWN original coding as it's heart, and the graphics as it's shell.

And no doubt there would be people who would be willingly to play on a FFXI private server, but on the logical, and well..in the terms of.."No ****" I'd rather play on SE owned servers, why play on a server where people who had less then say 10 years game design experience (let alone MMO experience) created the new quests and storylines, then a company and people who been doing gaming for a good 17+ years, great track record, and produced excellent products? I'm going with SE on that one. Because the major downfall of a Private server, besides the legal stuff, would be the fact it would suck, plain and simple. High rate exp and drops? What's the point. Half of the game no longer active? I.e CoP, ToAU areas never being open again because face it, most "Emulated Servers" usually leave out a good chunk of the original game to try to stay "Legal" which is a doubled edged sword, sure it won't seem like a straight copy, but on the other hand it would be a horrible game because it isn't a straight copy.

Therefore, why play in the Pre-Zilart days on a emulated server, when I can progress with my $14.00 a month charge fee I've been paying for 4 years for excellent up time, excellent quests, decent challenges and non-corrupt GMs (as in, purposely deleting your account, teleporting you to places when they say they will help you) and above all, far superior development team for new areas/monsters/gear/story? Answer is, I wouldn't, because they are making FFXI and supporting it because people will pay to play it, and will always play it.

I don't care about emulated servers, I won't technically bash them, but I can see them failing because of so many of the obvious outcomes as I listed. Sure faster exp would be cool, but some Private Server owners are going to the "OMGWTFHIGHEXP1000xRATES" and instead of 10-360exp a kill, you'll get over 12,000 exp+ a kill...tempting, but stupid.
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#93 Aug 31 2006 at 12:13 PM Rating: Decent
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NeoChikara wrote:
If you want to flame this thread, please do it somewhere else, some people are actually interested in these things, and wouldn't like to read through someones crybaby remarks on the subject.


Sorry, I'll flame you and your account-hacking scam all I want. You're scum.

#94 Aug 31 2006 at 12:17 PM Rating: Default
This thread really shows how incredibly dumb most of you are. We have the pseudo-lawyers, pseudo-developers, the "OMG NO YOU CANT DO SOMETHING ANTI-SE AT ALL THEY ARE ALWAYS RIGHT" crowd... and then we have a few intelligent people actually trying to share information.

If you just came here to "inform" people that this is "illegal" or "wont work" (because of course youre an expert), or better yet to claim that a sourceforge project is a giant scam... If you find it impossible to admit that unhappy customers could possibly "do something about" the problems you wont acknowledge as existing in FFXI or with SE... this thread is not for you. Go away.

Edit/note: Gandolf this means you. Moron.

Edited, Aug 31st 2006 at 1:26pm EDT by TheRielist
#95 Aug 31 2006 at 12:18 PM Rating: Default
You can play on both the private server and the real servers, its not like you have to give one up to play on the other. I agree that the majority of private servers have very bad gameplay and quality. For every 1 decent L2 private server there is probably 25 horrible ones you would never play on. And for every 1 great L2 private server there is probably 25 decent ones. This would stay the same for FFXI private servers as/if they become more widespread. There is going to be A LOT of horrible servers nobody would ever take the time to play on, but in the midst of those worthless servers you will find from time to time a fairly decent server worth investing a little time in. Server rates vary from creator to creator, and just like L2, some servers use the standard 1x rate the official server uses, and others might take the rates up to like 6500x. Its not something to completely blow off, but rather something to watch and see how it progresses. Its just like shopping for a new car; you keep test driving them until you find the one that suits you best.
#96 Aug 31 2006 at 12:24 PM Rating: Decent
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TheRielist wrote:
This thread really shows how incredibly dumb most of you are. We have the pseudo-lawyers, pseudo-developers, the "OMG NO YOU CANT DO SOMETHING ANTI-SE AT ALL THEY ARE ALWAYS RIGHT" crowd... and then we have a few intelligent people actually trying to share information.

If you just came here to "inform" people that this is "illegal" or "wont work" (because of course youre an expert), or better yet to claim that a sourceforge project is a giant scam... If you find it impossible to admit that unhappy customers could possibly "do something about" the problems you wont acknowledge as existing in FFXI or with SE... this thread is not for you. Go away.

Edit/note: Gandolf this means you. Moron.

Edited, Aug 31st 2006 at 1:26pm EDT by TheRielist


This thread is for anybody who wants to post to it. Since it's apparently confirmed that this is the sourceforge project, I will be reporting it to SE.

#97 Aug 31 2006 at 12:27 PM Rating: Default
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ChrisMattern wrote:
NeoChikara wrote:
If you want to flame this thread, please do it somewhere else, some people are actually interested in these things, and wouldn't like to read through someones crybaby remarks on the subject.


Sorry, I'll flame you and your account-hacking scam all I want. You're scum.


Can I flame you for being an idiot in this thread? Or would that be too harsh <.<
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#98 Aug 31 2006 at 12:28 PM Rating: Decent
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The One and Only Deadgye wrote:
ChrisMattern wrote:
NeoChikara wrote:
If you want to flame this thread, please do it somewhere else, some people are actually interested in these things, and wouldn't like to read through someones crybaby remarks on the subject.


Sorry, I'll flame you and your account-hacking scam all I want. You're scum.


Can I flame you for being an idiot in this thread? Or would that be too harsh <.<


Do what you gotta do; I'll do what I gotta do.

#99 Aug 31 2006 at 12:51 PM Rating: Default
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If you were you use an emulated server, why the fuck would you use your normal account and password over some random one?
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#100 Aug 31 2006 at 12:56 PM Rating: Default
Anybody with 1/2 a brain would not use their real account information because there is absolutely no need to. There is no connection between login information for a private server, and login information for the official server. I guess the only reason someone might do so would be because they have a bad memory and would otherwise forget the login information to one of the 2 game services? I dunno, its not something experianced private server users would do. Its pretty much common sense.
#101 Aug 31 2006 at 12:57 PM Rating: Good
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The One and Only Deadgye wrote:
If you were you use an emulated server, why the fuck would you use your normal account and password over some random one?


Because it's a masked scam :P

Any true emulated server, would require you to MAKE a new account, not use a previous one on a legal server. xD


OH and also, there wouldn't be an option to use an already made account at all, that's just basically screaming "I want to steal your account man..:D"

But yeah, things like this, could succeed, but against companies as big as Blizzard, Square or Nintendo, it's destined to fail. I mean, Square and Nintendo shuts down FAN-GAMES using RPG MAKER or other tools..why would'nt they target emulation?

Edited, Aug 31st 2006 at 1:59pm EDT by Theonehio
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