POL System Scan Privacy Issues? OP Updated 5:39am EST Mar 9Follow

LOL sigged for the sheer stupidity

Where were you when I was repeatedly typing that earlier and then saying "ARGH!" and hitting back on my browser T_T

My poor, poor fingers.

I'd give you a cookie if I could, but I am but a lowly subscriptionless member, so instead I will extend an open ended invitation for dinner (red beans and rice tonight) :P

"Then don't play" LOL

Microsoft did this too.. gee it went to court and they were told to get the hell out of people's computers.. of course we COULD stop using computers right? I don't think so...

Why does a "game company" need to know where I bank, my passwords, my fetishes? thanks but no thanks. Last think I need is some random GM from the hundreds there have been to come diddle my computer/life/finances cuz he's bored or gone postal comp aggro to get back at SE for a bad paycheck.

That's really wierd. I donno. Really everything I know about Vista I either learned by playing with the settings on my own computer or by sitting through an 8-hour abridged class at work.

Ninozz, you and youssarian both seem to want to show off your opinions, but neither of you seem like you have a clue what the real issue is here. You really should do some Google searching for articles and arguments about Warden before you start making stupid comments.
LadyOfHolyDarkness, Eater of Souls


I don't mean to say you are an idiot, but I will considering what you just wrote. Especially because you clearly DID NOT read all what I wrote. I understand completely the issue at hand which is privacy. The questions revolve around how much privacy by law are we given, how much SE is giving us, are they breaking the law and to what degree, AND what is the resolution for said breach (sp?) of privacy.

I will reiterate what I have said in prior posts for Lady who cannot quite read. I have said I am on the side of the players (first post). I have also made it clear that FFXI players are a bunch of whiners (also first post). I don't think anyone will dispute these facts. I also said that just because SE hasn't updated their TOS, does not mean that they won't. I put in two points concerning that (first and second post) that SE legal department may still be writing the language for the updated TOS or that they may simply not have updated it.

These certainly must qualify as Lady has said as stupid comments. In addtion, this whole @#$# site is about people giving their opinions - just FYI in case you weren't aware.

Now onto Warden and SE's new attempt to combat 3rd party hackers. Kudos to them. SE just needs to update their TOS, give players the opt out of it (i.e. quit) and this whole issue is moot. The people who are going to find this most disconcerting are the cheaters. I'm not saying everyone who is against this hacks, but I'm sure lots of those people do. However, I recognize that there are likely a small group (maybe a medium size one) of people against privacy intrusion on general principle. Kudos to you. You're fighting a worthwhile battle. You will NEVER have privacy on the internet. I'm not a techy, but even I know that you are tracked, watched, logged, and just about violated in every way when you use the internet. Big businesses, small businesses, spammers, thieves, etc...they all want to know what you are doing and find out probably more information about us then we EVER want to know. That being said, is SE really going to far?

I turn back to my first post with my lists of ZOMGs! Everyone ******* ENDLESSLY about @#$#@% SE, its practices, game, etc. You all seem to enjoy ******** more than actually playing sometimes. SE is TRYING to fix the game, meet the wants of the player base, but because ONE line in their TOS doesn't state that the new update includes their right to scan processes you all becomone civil right privacy nuts. How many people have even have read the TOS from beginning to end? 5%? In addition, the update isn't even finished. Again, maybe, just maybe SE just hasn't updated the TOS and will do so once everyone gets the update.

Should SE have update the TOS before doing the update? Probably. Have they commited some great heinous crime? Not really. They have all the information they could want from you anyway. Credit card numbers, addresses, social security nubmers, etc all exist in SE databases. Do we REALLY think SE put that there so they can see what **** or illegal movies you are downloading? I'm not saying ANY person or company should have open access to what you are doing on your computer, but when the activities are meant to INSURE honest play for the entire playerbase,I don't find it quite so awful.

Cheaters will certainly complain the loudest. Hackers and RMT will get their ***** on forever. But those people aren't really concerned about their privacy...jsut about how it means they have to play fair like everyone else or risk being punished. All SE does is update one line of TOS and the issue is gone. But you all will complain forever. I HOPE you get caught cheating and that you lose all the time you put into you character. I HOPE you get off your *** then and go fight real privacy violations, not only the ones from you mother's basement.
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Edited, Mar 8th 2007 9:12pm by youssarian

Edited, Mar 8th 2007 9:16pm by youssarian

Enforcement. Square Enix has the right, but not the obligation, to monitor any activity and Content associated with its forums and interactive areas. Square Enix may investigate any reported violation of its policies or complaints and take any appropriate action that it deems appropriate. Such action may include, but is not limited to, issuing warnings, suspension or termination of service, and/or removal of posted Content. Square Enix reserves the right and has absolute discretion, to remove, screen or edit any Content that violates these provisions or is otherwise objectionable. In order to cooperate with legitimate governmental requests, subpoenas or court orders, to protect Square Enix's systems and customers, or to ensure the integrity and operation of Square Enix's business and systems, Square Enix may access and disclose any information it considers necessary or appropriate, including, without limitation, user profile information (i.e. name, e-mail address, etc.), IP addressing and traffic information, usage history, and posted Content. Square Enix's right to disclose any such information shall govern over any terms of Square Enix's Privacy Policy.

In other words, they are covered six ways to Sunday legally. You, by the purchase and installation of their product give them full permission to access whatever data they deem fit to prevent abuse of their services.

You may be a paying customer, but you're on their turf.

U red gud.

Square Enix has the right, but not the obligation, to monitor any activity and Content associated with its forums and interactive areas.

If you have never noticed, POL is an extension of their website, therefore by legal terms it IS the website. Ever notice how if you disconnect the screen is all red? That's cuz it pulls all those images from the website. That's the "interactive content" they are referring to. And it is POL.exe doing the "scanning".

You have legal grounds based in quicksand. Have fun.

Edited, Mar 8th 2007 6:49pm by Pawkeshup

And where in their PRIVACY POLICY does it say they have the right to fish through my computer? Hmm? Anywhere?

That's what I thought.



That would be LINKSHELL COMMUNITY.

Edited, Mar 8th 2007 9:53pm by Erawyn

@youssarian

I don't really care to argue with you, so this will be my only written response to your posts, as others have been picking you apart already.

Yes, I do use the Windower. Without it, when running FFXI, my computer would be of no more use to me than my PlayStation (which I currently use only to watch DVDs). Square used to say that they considered PC users ability to alt-tab unfair to the PS2 users, but if the PS2 user has a computer and an Internet connection, they are the one with the advantage. Now Square states that they are offering a windowed mode because they believe that PCs can finally handle a windowed mode and that they did not think so in the past. This is obviously a lie since Windower has been around and functional since early 2004.

The main reason Square states that they don't want to make upgrades to the PC version of the game is that they think it will be unfair to the PS2 players since their hardware can't handle as much... well, is it the PC user's fault that the PS2 is outdated hardware? Also, both the PC and XBox version of the game are ports of the PS2 version. Why did Square not make individual versions to start with? Because they are lazy (which is the same reason it takes them several years to make any decent changes). Only in the last year has Square ever truly tried to fix ANY of the more serious problems in this game even though people had been complaining since the beginning.

You're entitled to whatever opinion you want to have, but you (now removed) comment on how you know more about civil rights than I ever will lost you any respect I could have built for your posts. First off, there's a good chance that this is true; BUT, you are posting in an online forum, and your background and education mean nothing here. I've seen many people make comments like that here in the few years I've posted here, and it always makes them looks like jackasses even if it is true.

Regarding Square having my information; of course they have my credit card information and my name, address, and phone number. If they did have my SSN, that would definitely be a concern as they have no business holding such information. Also, yes, I have read their TOS all the way through several times, including once today.

In closing, I'd be glad to switch to the new windowed mode when it arrives, but square really should add macros longer than 6 line TO ALL PLATFORMS. (I think 10 lines would suffice.) They should also think about turning up the draw distance options in the game (as well as the background resolution (the only way to truly get rid of jaggies is to registry hack and double what FFXI config settings will allow). The only other thing I'd really miss from Windower would be the option to force ambient lighting... without it, the game looks foggy and dark, no matter what I set my gamma settings to.

There you have it. Now please crawl back under your bridge.

Better yet, pick up your manual. There's about 5-7 pages of legal documentation on the PC version.

This actually covers them fully, from a legal stand point. If you visit their website directly or via interactive content (which includes using Media Player to view the live cam, POL to view their custom flash website that launches their game) you effectively agree to participate.

What *exactly* do you need to hide so badly that you are paniced that they scan active processes for hacks? You **** and whine and moan about hackers, they take action to actively LOOK for them, and now you try to hide behind legalese? Please.

I'm sorry my manual's user agreement doesn't count as a binding legal contract, as per its own definitions, since it's been updated since the manual was printed.


Did you even read the agreement, or are you in the habit of just blindly accepting things?


And re: your entire third paragraph. Why don't you go back to page 1 and read the entire thread?


And is it just me, or if you replace the word "hackers" with "terrorists" is that not a straight up patriotic statement in support of all the Big Brotheresque crap that went into the patriot act? Pawkeshup, I /salute you and your unintentional blind patriotism.

He's quoting http://www.square-enix.com/na/about/

Which quite clearly says at the top "Square-Enix.com Terms of Use"

But he can't "red".

So I forgive him.