The unfairness of mog bonanza towards PS2 playersFollow

hopefuly you were being sracastic lol

Hell executives get paid when they are taking a nap. It's called salary, an executive who gets paid by the hour is called a consultant

Edited, Jul 1st 2008 2:53pm by Lienna

Yeah, it couldn't possibly be that they simply wanted to cheat us, and then have people like you try to defend them with lame excuses like "well, the moogle never actually SAID that his picks were truly random, blah blah blah!"

Couldn't be that, nuh-uh.




I supposedly don't know what SE's intent was, but you do, then? You must, if you even know that I'm "wrong" to begin with. So enlighten us, oh wise one. Try not to sound as lame as Lienna does in the process.




Why not? It's their largest playerbase, is it not? Thus it stands within reason to say that singling them out would produce the greatest possible results without having to do the same thing for ALL of their players, which would have made it a lot easier for people to cry foul if they had.




News flash:

The longer it takes for players to get things accomplished in this game (whether it's racking up gil, or scoring some uber equipment, or whatever), the more money SE makes in subscription fees.

What do they have to gain by charging us craploads of gil for nearly every event they do anyway, even when there's no chance of winning anything particularly useful? Hell, for that matter, why do they care about our economy at all? It's simple: they want to keep you farming, and therefore playing their game, longer.

Therefore, your logic is somewhat backwards. Give everyone 100m gil and uber gear, and if anything it will make players quit the game sooner overall, because it only means they will have accomplished their in-game goals that much sooner.




You know, this wouldn't really be the first time that SE has underestimated the creativity/knowledge of their playerbase.




Less work to just take a bunch of numbers and rule them out from ever possibly winning, entirely.




Nah. I enjoy myself more when I don't really care about having the popular opinion solely because it's popular. Likewise, I enjoy this site more when I don't really care about karma.

Some of those execs (used to be one myself) get a salary and "Special Project" income, thats tied directly to finishing projects/goals. Often times the bonus would include a bonus itself for meeting or beating timelines.

There is also the matter of things that are "expensed" such as taxis, dinner, hotels that are paid for during the project depending on weather or not you will have to travel. If you have to travel the travel is paid for as well.

This also trickles down to lower level employess who have to work overtime to facilitate the execs, especially when the exec is traveling to a different time zone and needs staff available later in the day.

It always costs ...

In game, I've actually had to spell out "ranger" or "random number generator" on a few occasions, simply to prevent people from asking "RNG?" later on, due to not knowing what one I was talking about >_>

I'll never sing "War~ What is it good for? Absolutely nothing!" in my LS again, either. I nearly got the boot.

How is that unfair? Just because you had the last three digits of the Rank 1 number on one of your marbles? What's the difference?

I expceted this really.

If there was 1 winning number i.e. 12345

Then the person who picked 12345 would win a prize from all 5 rank groups.

Edited, Jul 1st 2008 2:31pm by spcwill

It's about how I bought the marbels, nothing to do with the actual numbers.
I bought them anticipating 1 number being called. so I had identical marbles, except the first digit. If I knew a single number was being called for rank 5, I'd have gotten 0-9 in the last digit. Thus increasing my odds for getting rank 4.
I basically played for rank 1 only, cause I thought 1 number would be called and all prizes would be based off that number.

It's like buying a lotto ticket in real life, you don't buy different numbers every week, you stick with the same ones.

Again, I'll know for next year

uhh no it really didnt because if you had all 5 numbers you couldnt get a rank 1,2,3,4,5 prize you only got the max and someone who got 4 numbers only got a rank 2 and so on. It actually allowed for more prizes this way I think (might be 1=1 though I will have to think a bit more) because this way there are no 'wasted' numbers, since each one is unique which makes it seem less random but doesnt change the odds any.

Lets say for simplicity reasons the winning number was 12345.

Now to get rank two you would nee #2345, rank 3 would be ##345 and so on.
It doesnt matter what the other numbers are because if you won a rank 3 prize then you didn't get the right ones (remember you can only get the highest rank prize you win and the rest are not counted).

Ok so now lets say the rank 1 number is 12345 and the rank 3 number is X0987

It wouldnt matter if you got X6829 or X2345 you still didnt win, it is the same range of numbers(4 digits). and the same chance at getting all of them (barring the issue with PS2 RNG at this point) it is still a string of 4 numbers generated at random.

The people that are saying otherwise are just QQing because they were 1 gigit off winning or something like that. which honesly I have a marble like that and it means nothing. As someone mentioned in one of the se threads, there are 45 possible numbers that would be '1 digit' off the winning number, and with a ratio of 45:1 you are far more likely to be 1digit off than to have the winning number so the statement is completely false.

Edited, Jul 1st 2008 3:36pm by Lienna

Now now kiddies, let's all play nice, shall we?

First of all, let me introduce you to the wonderful world of Java~
In the following method you will find a simple algorithm that makes a ##### random number without following any pattern. You are free to test it if you want.



This method does the following:
RN1 x 1 + RN2 x 10 + RN3 x 100 + RN4 x 1000 + RN5 x 10000
This, in turn, generates all the possible numbers between 0 & 99999.

Nevertheless, while some may say that the EOEOE & the OEOEO pattern can be present in such a random number algorithm, it is still possible to attain different patterns.
Personally, I am surprised that the DEVs screwed up with something this simple.

I mean, it only takes a fraction of a second to calculate 1 random number between 0 and 9 and save it up to make up a 5-digit number.

I believe that there was a mistake. For those of you that refuse to think that the PS2 random numbers weren't totally random and, forgive me for the heresy, that SE's DEVs had made an error, I pity you. Logic dictates that, in order to see this amount of numbers following the EOEOE & OEOEO pattern without seeing any other possible outcome, the algorithm was written to generate only those two patterns. Is that clear?

Was it fair for those who decided to use the random numbers in a PS2/PS3? Not really, for as they did not have an equal chance with those numbers like the other players who decided to pick random numbers with a different console. Even more importantly, while some of you may say that all the calculations were server side, that idea is based of the answer of an interview about a different matter. Is it so hard to imagine that they used another process to calculate the random numbers rather than to force an adaptation of an existing one?

Also, while the news archive did prove that the moogles never mentioned "random" in their text, the Bonanza moogles (ingame) did use said word, if I recall correctly. Even if it wasn't the case though, it is common sense to suppose so. Furthermore, this argument is based on the translated news archive rather than the original text in Japanese. Why is this important? Well, there have been mistranslations in the past. You can figure out the rest.

EDIT

I fixed up some grammar mistakes.


Edited, Jul 1st 2008 5:53pm by AmrikValefor

Precisely; it wasn't a ***** up. They knew what they doing. (Take off every 'zig', etc etc)




Seriously, all the arguments saying "the moogles never said they would pick truly random numbers" are full of crap and are just digging for excuses for SE. It was obviously intended (or at least, we were supposed to interpret it as such) as a way to get randomly picked numbers. As I've said, various real life lotteries have a similar feature, most likely as a means for the indecisive ones among us to go ahead and buy a ticket anyway without having to take time to choose our numbers.




Like I said, I didn't do this, but I still think it was still a dirtyhanded trick for SE to pull, regardless.

Edited, Jul 1st 2008 6:02pm by Fynlar

EOEOE or OEOEO is not something that just accidentally ends up in a 5-digit RNG.

Then the payouts most likely would have been stacked against the player, so only people who didn't know how to spend their money, wanted a prize other than the gil, or people with too much time/money on their hands to care would have bothered with it anyway.




If the fee for a marble was the same, then yeah, it would have discouraged me. I'm sure not everyone else would say the same thing, but personally, I don't really care to lose 10 of my inventory slots in order to play a game where the payouts are stacked against me from the beginning.




They ninja edit/fix stuff all the time... there's a LOT they don't tell us about their game, lol.




Wrong. The whole point of the event was for SE to collect a bunch extra in subscription fees. It didn't have to be that way, of course, but almost everyone I know made extra mules just for this event. And due to the way they released the winning numbers (waited over a month, when it should have taken maybe 2 minutes to generate the 5 necessary random numbers, and of course, they waited until the end of the month to release the numbers so that all the people who bought extra mules would be forced to pay for them for another month in order to get any rewards they might have won), it's obvious they did this purely for money. Not a big surprise, they are a business after all, but the way they handled the numbers just made it... incredibly obvious. To me it's kinda like restaurants that consider the tip to be counted in the cost of your meal (as in, you're forced to pay the tip they specify). That's just a sneaky way of raising the cost of your food while still advertising it to be a cheaper price. It's not so sneaky from my point of view, but whatever.

Yes, they can create more gil whenever they like, but how do they give it to any one person without making it appear like GM bias or anything like that? They don't, and that's where events like these come in.

I am curious to see, however, just how much gil actually was produced as a result of this event. I doubt we'll get any all-encompassing statistics of how many marbles were purchased and what prizes the winners chose, but if we had an idea of how many marbles were bought on a server and how many prizes were won on each server, we could at least guess how much maximum "potential" gil was generated.