Databases and Wikis - Why Not ZAM?Follow

FFXIwiki also had an incentive system in place to encourage people to update. A friend of mine spent months painstakingly transcribing cutscenes for site credit. Every edit you make that isn't reverted gives you points toward new titles and goals.

That could possibly be tied into the ZAM karma system - every page you update with a certain number of words boosts your karma. So if you provide a lot of content updates, even if you don't make a lot of forum posts, you can still earn the guru title.

Haveing items indexed so when we searcha nd they pop up like wiki would be a start, beyond that its just to difficult to edit a page. Ive edited a few pages here and its just so hard to udnerstand and the formatting options are so minimalist it just takes all the fun out of it.

I think editing is the major problem stopping people.

I think this is a great idea if ZAM management is interested in motivating users to edit their pages.

edit: you know, after you make it easier to use and not so ugly XD

Edit2: I would also say from a user standpoint, your premium features are kind of bleh. And are things that a forum should already give you acess too.

In a perfect world, If I was going to offer PREMIUM ZAM membership perks, they would be along the lines of insider, you get access to them first as a premium member kinds of things.

You are a premier site, so partner with SE (and others) a bit on this as to what that might be. But things like, in game items, excluse first peaks into Dev interviews, contests and giveaways JUST for premium members (like the opportunity to have 4 of YOUR questions asked at the next Dev Q and A), discounts or first access to fanfest tickets etc etc.

I'm not saying those are it, I'm just saying find a way to connect with your users and offer relevant incentives. I always thought the premium features on ZAM were lol. But thats just me...basic forum functions labeled as premium...eh

Edited, Nov 30th 2010 4:55pm by ThiefKiller

Edited, Nov 30th 2010 4:56pm by ThiefKiller

For FFXI information, I use ZAM for item searches (to see stats) but that's about it. That's just because I can type a couple letters into ZAM and search and it brings back good results. Wiki's search is garbage. Actually, I sometimes use ZAM's search to find out the correct spelling of a mob's name, and then go Wiki it.

I think that for FFXIV and for new/future MMOs, ZAM could definitely have good Wiki traffic. You will just need to have it spotlighted, and have it being updated. The staff who are playing the game will need to be on top of it, and you'll have to spread the word in-game that this is where you are getting your info. You are going to want to have peopel explaining the newest information to others, and when they ask where they found it out, have the response be "over on ZAM." Editing/updating has to be easily accessible.

I agree with others who have mentioned the Karma system. There's a vBulliten-based board that I frequent that uses a reputations system. You can only dole out so much rep per 24 hours. You have to spread it around before you can give rep to the same poster again, and negative rep is reserved basically for flagrant abuse of board rules. Basically, those who make the most knowledgeable posts or what have you end up with a lot of positive rep, but those who aren't popular or whatever aren't penalized by having people bomb them with negative rep. They just don't get rated very often.

ETA: The other thing about the vBulliten rep system the other board uses is that you see who gave you rep in your User CP. When you take the anonymity out of the equation, people are generally less downrate happy. Also, while positive rep does not require a comment to be given out, negative rep does require you to put a comment in there or it won't go through. Basically, you have to justify your reasoning.

Edited, Nov 30th 2010 6:27pm by Spoonless

And the latter would be different from the forum.. how?

Foolish nonsense doesn't (usually) get you guru.

Ironically, databases are what made ZAM (as a whole) popular in the first place.

The problem with that is, FFXIAH isnt sanctioned by SE and technically voids their terms or service. (If im wrong please correct.) The other issues is that guildworks may or may not blow up. Its still in its baby form and while it is an awesome site for 11, im not sure how it will fair under other games.



Translation: You guys whine and cry about things instead of not saying stuff, so we came to you.

I don't think it's a bad thing that each website has found its own niche within the FFXI community. I see Allakhazam's strong point in its forums, like others have pointed out. You come to Alla to make a post and expect an exchange of ideas, different points of view, but all, in a controlled environment. To sum it up, you can post a thread to Alla, and expect it to flourish nicely... a troll here and there, but they simply add to the comic relief. Overall, good conversations come out of Alla's thread.

Try that on BG, for instance, and you end up with a never-ending thread, going on 50-pages long, with 49 of those pages being of people discussing something that has nothing to do with the OP, usually people bashing on each other. BG's strong point is that a lot of players see it as a source for more hardcore research, and you do see a lot of good threads like that on there. But, again, because of the spam fest, you're better off waiting for results to come out, and have someone link to them or post them in a new thread (which will end up with 50+ pages as well).

FFXIAH is where you look up pricing information, that's a given. I do like the integration with FFXIWiki that was added sometime ago.

When I first started playing, I actually did use the Alla database. But not for its information, because that was close to non-existent, but because of the user commentaries. That was useful back then, some 3-4 years ago. These days, though, FF Wiki has taken over that role as well, so I can't remember the last time I accessed the Alla database. I actually remember I posted once on the FFXIAH forums that they should consider linking to the Alla database as well for that reason, but it was shot-down by an administrator there as a bad idea.

I think at this point in the life of the game, talking specifically about FFXI, you're better off spending your resources improving what you already do best for the community: the forums. You already received some suggestions regarding that, so I won't add much, as I've seen some good ideas. For all intents and purposes, you guys can bury the Alla FFXI wiki, and give it an honorable funeral. Whatever time members of your team were going to spend on your wiki, have them dedicate that time to improving the forums, always working to make it a better experience for your users.

What drew people to FFXIclopedia, I believe, is the widely known wiki format that we have gotten comfortable over the years. On Alla, the wiki is all sorts of different colors, and... well, different; people had no reason to change, there was nothing new, and no incentives... it was the whole opposite, as others have already explained.

FFXIclopedia has forums too... but who goes to them? No one. I come to Alla for the forums; I go to FFXIclopedia for the information. Keep it that way.

We're past the era of the internet in which you were big solely for having content online. Everything is so saturated now, that unless it's good and your users can see that right away, the person has already moved to the next site after 10 seconds.

I also recall that right after the scandal about FFXIclopedia having been sold to Wikia, the BG community tried to build a wiki of their own, trying to sabotage FFXIclopedia. From what I remember, they kept that going for a while, almost having a rule that you couldn't mention FFXIclopedia, with its members referring to it as "that other wiki". I, for one, have never been to the BG wiki, and I'm not quite sure if they have given up on it. But, recently, the BG threads I've seen link freely to FFXIclopedia. But pretty much... they too attempted to go into the wiki business, and pretty much failed. FFXIclopedia has the stronghold and is keeping it.

For those complaining about the new interface that Wikia enabled, all you have to do is register on the site... you choose the old template, and voilà. It's not hard to change it to the old one.

What I would like to see from you guys, regarding improvement of the forums, is perhaps a karma system revamp, and better moderation. You always see the administrators reminding people of the rules, but there are certain regular posters who violate these rules all the time, and, because they're "regulars", the administrators do nothing to them. Taking care of this would certainly improve what Alla is already good at.

Edited, Nov 30th 2010 7:42pm by FiliusLunae

The only reason FFXIclopedia is more popular than the Allakazham wiki is because it was first and people went there. Now people just keep going there and therefore things get editted. I'm not about to edit three or four different wikis with the same information, nor am I about to search three or four when one will do.

BG is far from newbie friendly. I've never posted there, and don't hang out on there either; I'm only on the forums when someone links to information on them; I did say that useful game research has come out of those forums. I'll trust your word on the rest about the BG forums; however, at least for me, if I want a conversation about the game, if I want to know what players think about XYZ, if I want to read about speculation about a new update, etc, Alla is the place to come. I honestly get chills anytime I do read something on BG, the threads just seem to go and on and on forever with no point. Even those research threads... they start off nicely, then 50 pages later something new is found, and you better hope the OP linked to it on the original post. In any case, that's why I prefer to read only the information that is linked to from BG, right here on Alla for instance.


When I see certain users do the same thing over and over, I have to assume that any warnings given to this person aren't effective. Effective would mean "You do this once, you get a warning; do it twice, get a two-day suspension; after X warning, you get banned".


Didn't mean that was an official rule, it was just the attitude of the posters there.

EDIT: I just want to add that I'm not dismissing BG as a legitimate community site. On the contrary, I think they're an important part of the FFXI community, along with Alla, FFXIclopedia and FFXIAH. But that's why I've said that each site has found its place, and that's why we, as FFXI players, visit all four, just for different purposes like I said on my first post here.



Edited, Dec 1st 2010 1:53am by FiliusLunae

I used to love posting on here but over the years this forum went downhill. People stopped posting cause people was rude and just pretty much shut down any question or idea. The job forums are so outdated, I mostly come here for ***** and giggles now days. And if ya noticed only the same people post each and everyday. The karma system is a joke and always will be on here. People spam things and words just to get rated up. This used to be a great site for Info but now days I go to WIKI and BG. I let my premium account go cause any new ideas would be bashed to a pulp if it don't go along with the long time posters views of how to play. You asked for an honest answer that's it in a nutshell.