Databases and Wikis - Why Not ZAM?Follow

lolkarma

That makes sense, but honestly, how many people really only pay for premium for advanced search on the FFXI site?

Due to the new wikia interface, ffxiclopedia has gone downhill drastically in quality, but the information is still there - a lot more than zam offers. Zam still has the best forums though, particularly the job forums.

Initially, I came to ZAM because of the database and guides. Then I found the forum, and found the forum to be a lot better source of information than the rest of the site. Meanwhile, I found sites like somepage to be far better resource. To this day, I have yet to find a site that offered a bestiary search as robust as the one somepage had.

By the time somepage had become virus riddled and out of date, wiki had already risen to prominence. By the time ZAM tried to compete, wiki was already established. If I'm going contribute and update information on a site, I would rather stick to one site than trying to update the same information on multiple sites.

That is so horrible ; ; Especially because Somepage had the best mechanics for search ever. You could select individual aspects (Rare, but not Ex, equippable by Blu, but not Blu only)

I ignored your initial post because, honestly, it was so off the topic of this thread that you should have made your own pity party thread. But since you insist on shoving your agenda again...



You have got to be ******* kidding me. YOUR comics could have saved Alla's DATABASE? And why would they pay YOU? I mean, are you a major comic name? Are you employed by some major comics company so that your fans would frequent here just to see your work? Do you honestly think that people came to Alla just to read a comic once a week where there are hundred of thousands of webcomics out there catering to every individual taste you could imagine and many you could not?

And how would that help the DATABASE exactly? Would you make comics showing how to edit articles? Oooo thrilling content there...

They did not neglect it, it became a monstrous task that was beyond one or two people to do. So they tried to crowd source, but the tools they offered were not user-friendly enough. Wikis are everywhere, so the knowledge of editing them are common place. Mix in the lack of pre-made templates, comprehensive help files, and some form of odd indexing lag and you wind up with a less-than-desirable interface to add updates.

Let's focus on the situation here, not whining about what ZAM did or did not do.

They haven't lost anything. Many people really dislike how Wikia just upends their design on a whim. There's also some that dislike the Wikia site because those behind it used it as a cash cow at one point (Hence why the BG Wiki even exists). ZAM could very easily position itself for success with one of two moves: Direct info from SE or a ground-up rewrite of the wikibase.

Gee, they said that it was the user's fault? Need a ******* mirror there sport? Your attitude is **** poor, and I honestly have no ******* clue why you're still here if you're so miserable with the lack of information, issues with forum problems, and your own poor attitude of SE. Seriously, nothing's holding your negative *** here. Please, hit Log Out and never return. You won't be missed, I assure you. Meanwhile, bugger out of this thread, and let those of us who want to FIX the problem discuss like adults, rather than **** and moan about Karma and being made a "Guru" on a ******* web forum.
The only truth here is that you're a small, petty little man who thinks that becoming big on a forum will somehow justify your life.

It won't. Go outside. Get a life.

Such a system actually already exists, it's just not active for nonadmins.

What do I think about this site and what do I use?

Well I use it, but only for the forums now, and I don't post that often on them as it is. I'll usually only post something when I think its worthwhile.

As for the database, when I first started playing I used the database daily to get info from, but once I found FFXIcyclopedia and realised how much more information it had, how it seemed substantially more accurate, and how many times better the structure was I never looked back. I always felt I had to check with other LS members to see if the info on Alla was correct as it often felt part-finished. On FFXIcyclopedia it's rare I come across anything that's incorrect or unfinished and that's how it should be.

Edited, Dec 2nd 2010 10:59am by Gra

Can we drop the pointless karma discussion? Sythe system is working as intended and really who careing about karma is pointless.

I didn't say that, but then again you never seem to READ on-topic. I used it as an example of how alla has no interest in competing, and thats how they let their database prowess slide into failure. It's also a superb example of how you make massive assumptions, putting words in my mouth I never even almost said.

Yes, I worked in comics for 7 years, for Marvel, Capcom, DC, Image, Top Cow and was part of 2 blockbuster titles (meaning record breaking sales). FYI.
That alone is a validation to pay someone. Just because you're trying to talk like 'who do you think you are?' doesn't mean my work isn't worth paying for. In fact I made a career of it cupcake. Plus the rate I was offering them was about 1/4 standard price, before you start acting like I was trying to rip anyone off. I was asking for the minimum that would have validated the time spent on providing the site users with quality content. Sorry for asking to have food money, in exchange for providing a valuable service. Sorry for not being a sucker by providing this site with increased visibility/profits for free while I starve. After all, who am I to ask for pay for skills I've invested a lifetime in developing??

You're so classy for being outraged that I would think such a thing. Good job, hero.

It's been proven by other kinds of sites that quality weekly content that entertains users, increases a site's success significantly. But I won't try to discuss marketing with someone that can't even read straight.

FYI there are no high quality colour web comics that cater to FFXI or FFXIV. If alla had them, yes, people would come here to read them. They would also send the links to friends that may not use Alla. More word-of-mouth, more ad-views, more user sign-up, more premium members, these would all have been benefits of investing in something like this.

BTW the selection of QUALITY web comics out there is ****-poor in general.

They want to know how this happened, everyone told them they let it happen. Pretty much everyone else said what I said. If you took your eyes off dissagreeing with me for a minute you might see that everyone else is saying the same thing. Hmmm maybe your little hate fest is what's off topic. hmmmm?


As I said, clearly your 'agenda' is to get rid of me. Sorry buddy, as long as there's improvement to be made and nobody else is speaking the truth with pride, I'm not going anywhere. Calling my attitude **** poor is your view.

My posts are always in the interest of improvement for all users. People like you keep being aggressive towards me, but the thing is they never have any real point besides "I don't like your opinion", and they rarely add any meaningful input themselves. You're contributing nothing to this thread except playing the 'outrage card' like a politician that says any line he thinks will get him applause.


Really. Everyone still comes here for info?


LMAO I'm quoting this just because... Wow hahah, pot calling the kettle black much? I never try to intimidate anyone, and here you come out spitting fire and venom and you think I'm someone trying to be a 'big man'?

In short, your post is so all over the place it's hard to even address correctly. You quote me and then go off on a tangent that has nothing to do with what I said. You insert huge assumptions that will support your outrage but forget to double check that you're not even addressing the quote's real point. I'd get that anger looked at. Don't bother trying to dump it on me, you're just pissing in the wind pal. While you're at it, work on reading what someone is actually saying, rather than see what you think they're saying.

Feel free to reply with whatever other off topic, half-made-up, agressive crap you want. This is all the time I'll spend addressing your flim-flam.

Love, RattyBatty.


You're wrong. I wasn't shocked because they didn't hire ME specifically. I was shocked because they weren't interested in investing in this simple thing that's proven to be gold for other sites. Even more-so at my bare-bones fee, which means minimal investment, maxium gain. And I didn't state this out of not-letting-go, I was stating it just to demonstrate the point that Alla doesn't have a nose for competing.
I understand how sensitive people are to others saying anything good about themselves. But seriously this wasn't me tooting my own horn, it was a perfect example of how Zam has let itself be beaten by other sites by not embracing innovation. This making it very on-topic.

What had happened exactly, is that happy fridays weren't making the impact I knew it could. So I provided a free comic one week as a proof of concept. Everyone loved it, they demanded more like this.

TO QUOTE PAWKESHUP'S COMMENT THAT DAY:(osnap, pwnt)


So I approached Zam about paying a discounted fee to continue doing this for you guys. I was unemployed, time spent on these comics was time not spent getting a job, so it was only reasonable to ask for money. Especially considering the huge visibility spike it would have provided them.

But whatever, I've decided to stop trying to convince other companies about how to compete. I've decided to put all my ideals and forward thinking to use for myself, and become the competition. We'll see who doesn't know his sh*t then.

Edited, Dec 2nd 2010 10:07am by RattyBatty

In 2004 and 2005 FFXI ZAM was a good source of relevant info, but that's because we did not understand the game and general knowledge was weak. Unfortunately ZAM incorporated both database AND form posting into one page and that was a mistake. The wiki separates the forum posting from the raw data, so if I want to look up information on the Blau Dolch for example the wiki entry is here and the discussion is here. Furthermore, everything about this is informative. If you went to allakhazam's page here the forum discussion includes discussion on irrelevant stuff like X's knife and why you should use that instead of blau. If I want to reasearch INFO on BLAU DOLCH then I am not interested in X's knife. This is worse on the Mandau page where a lot of the forum posts are about Excalibur and Knights of the Round.... a weapon of an entirely different CLASS. There's also a lot of discussion on the matter of Gjallahorn, a post about ninurta's sash, and one person asks "how am I supposed to get this when my shell won't let me lot coins". There's some bickering and even MISINFORMATION on that form post (one poster said for every 100% tp used KOTR grants 5 second invincible which is just wrong), and there's also personal boasting (<3 my mandau damage 39), and sibling rivalry (oh yes, she will be mine, one day i will have this weapon).

As you can see by the ZAM Mandau database link almost NONE of the posts are on topic or add useful information. The page is a cluttered mess and most of the info is wrong (including the most recent stating poison is 100% proc and 100 damage/tic. It's far from 100% and 10 damage/tic). The wiki's data entry however is clean and organized, with full information organized in a neat heirarchy, and the wiki's Discussion page is on topic and to the point.

The wiki will always be a better database than ZAM. There's no unnecessary garbage to sort through at the wiki; I just go to the page I want and all the data is right there, most of the time it's accurate and the discussion doesn't go off on a tangent. New data is slow to update and has a higher chance of being wrong, but it's leagues ahead of ZAM. FFXI ZAM is a discussion forum and little more. But that's not a bad thing and I don't understand why the admins think it is. We have a lot of intelligent posters here with insightful thoughts. There are GOOD posts on all 20 job forms, and the general discussion has important info now and again as well as being ==10. We have a thriving forum community where people can share their thoughts and opinions in a real time manner, and that's something a wiki can never do. I use wiki for my info, and ZAM for my discussion. I'm happy with that, and that will never change.

Edited, Dec 2nd 2010 9:11pm by Melphina

Okay, actually read some of the thread, and I had to lol at this one.



They're not rating you down because they disagree. They're rating you down because you're being a douche. You make a good point about some of ZAM's buisness decisions being detrimental to their own long-term health (I mean, requring premium to search the forums and have an AVATAR image, really?!) but you've managed to mix it up with your own sob story about not getting paid to draw comics and how that would have been the best thing ever and wove a rather pathetic doomsday tale about this fact heralding the end of ZAM as a we know it. And then you wrote some other posts probably about how awesome you think you are that I had to skim. Christ. You made ZAM an offer and they turned you down. It happens. A professional would, at most, remark that they find it a bit sad that you could not come to terms before moving on to greener pastures. With how you reacted to this, you've shown how smart ZAM was in not associating with you at all.

edit: no really, you called someone cupcake, and said you didn't want to read their flim-flam?! You intentionally typed things like that, thinking it was witty or cutting or something. Whaaaaat! Is there, like, a 'tard school out there or something, or does this talent just come naturally?

Edited, Dec 2nd 2010 11:04am by Erecia