Why is BLM required to get into groups?Follow

My suggestion would be to start your own shout group for seal runs. You can tank thf/nin, then shout for a blm/brd, blu, and whm (have blu or whm /rdm). This would solve your problems and your TH is highly desired to increase the drops on staggered mobs.

I definitely understand the rant, since my brother~in~law plays drk, war, sam, drg and can never get into shout, EVER! So we run him around when we can to get his seals. Unfortunately our play times are totally opposite (he gets off work when we go to bed).

Well this is also true but if you have a job that you really enjoy playing and want to make the best of it, then I can understand why some people don't want to change and play a job that may not be as good or interested in playing.

Edit:

Also the seal rewards are still random even with yellow procs, you are never 100% guarunteed that you will get the seals you want.

Edited, Apr 5th 2012 1:25pm by Janeash

Yeah I try to think that way when I am asked to break out my whm for events :)
(I am sure a lot of other people tend to to the same thing.) ><

one thing to bear in mind, many of those quests will only grant a seal on average once per game day, so once you get your seal--stop spamming them amnd wait for the day to change. The same goes for resistance/dominion ops--reward is once per game day.

Running the ops/quests can get tedious if you are just spamming them... been there, done that. The trick is to try to integrate some of it in with other activities. Hit a quickie quest/op while your group is still gathering. Log a Dominion Op before you go farm pop items from mobs on the list, then go back afterwords and redeem the Op. Working them in here and there like that can make them feel more like a bonus earned while doing normal content (or just plain skilling up solo), versus feeling like a chore you are just grinding through. The more your group sees you struggling with trying to manage it solo, they may be more inclined to help you--possibly even teaming up and letting you actually lock a job's drops until you finish. Never hurts to ask.....

Edited, Apr 5th 2012 1:50pm by BDHERTZER

It's a flaw of the system though. FFXI is the only MMO I have ever seen where you are forced to play something you absolutely abhor in order to get anywhere.

Some people just want to enjoy using their mains, but they end up playing something they don't like in order to get gear for the job they like. What's the point of getting gear for a job you're never going to get to play? Stand around and look good?

This thread makes me very tempted to rejoin just to make an LS that specifically caters to the "odd-jobs"... as a sort of "anti" cookie-cutter LS. I went through the "anti BST" stigma for years before abyssea, and despite my years of optimism and complete passion for the job, I had left swearing off the job should I ever return. So when I came back last time to it's wide acceptance in Abyssea, i was thrilled for the job, but had lost my "mojo" since the community as a whole had wore me down on it. I had been told many times by people over the years I was one of the best geared BST they had encountered - and almost all of it came from incredibly difficult & lucky solos, duos, or a handful of friends repaying favors in small groups for helping them out on BLM for them over the years. Even still, it was a job that didn't "fit" in most peoples eyes, for many reasons (mostly lack of understanding and a general "bad rap" from early developer mistakes).

It's important to understand (for everyone who plays!) that there are very few times where you "need" a bunch of black mages in an LS to succeed. Usually a couple BLM friends are useful to have around for Abyssea Time Extensions, or fights where physical immunity is a problem, but they are rarely required for more than that. There are other casters to fill that role today: RDM, SCH, BLU, and even PUP can get in the mix to achieve most of the same things you would have 'needed' a BLM for in the past.

I am all to familiar with your scenario though. For example, I played a BLM for many years... and got really burnt out. So just to allow myself to break away from the BLM ONRY stigma, I purposefully leveled RDM, BST, BLU, WAR, DNC, DRG, MNK, WHM, THF, DRK, SAM, and NIN to level cap at the time (I think it was 85 when I last played). I deleveled blm to 74. I STILL had people requesting that I level BLM to 85 and come as that if I wanted to join an LS. It's freaking unbelievable! A couple jobs worth of AF3+2 sets, wyrm god brew solo'd items, and a handful of the better atma's later, my friend and I were duoing as caster + melee of random combinations, and even doing things like war/whm + nin/war for some specific fights where we needed erase and haste but wanted ws procs... we were succeeding without much trouble at all and getting the atma and gear that we wanted, while being able to actually help out friends without hating every moment of it because of being forced into jobs we hated playing.

So yeah... it's very sad Today when we see VNM becoming the "go to" event and forcing old ideals back into the game - with posts like the original poster of this thread popping up after not seeing them for so long. The game had a good thing going and they basically threw it out the window in favor of something "new", that really isn't new... it's just old and re-branded.

Interestingly, when my best friend and I would go out as a couple of melee to screw around with NMs, Missions, Abyssea, or Campaign, or just to hang out and duo random stuff, other people in our linkshell would be bored and want to join and ask "what job they should come on". We'd repeatedly say things along the lines of "come as whatever you like, we're just having fun", and repeatedly they would come as whatever they thought the most convenient job was for the group's "maximum benefit", even though they would say they would like to come as something else. It was really like pulling teeth to get them to come as the job they "wanted" to play, simply because people in FFXI have been scarred and brainwashed by the cookie cutter nature of the game. Abyssea did a fantastic job of breaking away from the "old mold" (though admittedly, I believed they needed to beef some of the non-crit-ws weapon categories like GK to give them a slight leg-up and really make the playing field even across the board).

I acknowledge that there is a time you 'need' certain jobs, and there is no doubt that if you bring the right three job combinations (a common setup at the time I left I believe was blm/brd, war/nin, whm/rdm, for example) - you can really very thoroughly trigger procs and, in general "get things done". When it comes to higher level pops and top tier NM battles, the combos you bring are important and play a major role in your success. However, when there is a large scale fight with lots of people, or just some common pops to battle, it's really stupid and irritating to think even for a moment that the group requires a specific makeup to succeed. This game's strongest point over other MMOs is it's insane amount of variation and flexibility the job system allows... so to force half your team to go one job, and half to go another job, just for the sake of "ease" or "efficiency"... you've sort of defeated the purpose of the job system. That flexibility instead serves exactly the opposite purpose of it's design... it confines people to set paths and forces them into roles they wouldn't normally choose on their own. Its the age old adage of "Just because you can, doesn't mean you should".


Edited, Apr 5th 2012 3:49pm by FUJILIVES

To everyone saying just level BLM. The point is we shouldn't have to level one specific job in order to gear jobs we would rather play. I totally sympathize with the OP, and suggest making groups that work with the jobs you have. As previously mentioned you can tank most seal NM's as THF (or even DNC if it happens to be more enjoyable for you). You can even opt to be a WAR and turn a seal farm into a KI farm group as well focusing on NM's that help create pop sets for +2 items.

(Im not trying to harsh on those who mentioned level BLM, but imo it is just poor design choice by SE limiting usefulness to a handful of jobs.)

While I agree, "we shouldnt have to to level one specific job in order to gear jobs we would rather play", its the way things are. The way things Have been.

Blm is my baby. Has been since '04. When everyone was melee burning for merits, I felt compelled to level Brd. I hate brd. Always have. But, as soon as my brd hit 70, I had to go /anon to avoid getting blind invites. My merits were BOOMING.

Looking for a solution to get the seals u need? Level blm. Takes a weekend. Taking my brd to 70+ took me months.

Sometimes have to bite the bullet to get what you need.

On the plus side, blm rocks.. Tons of fun to play. You will see :)

This sounds about right to me.

i just spam the hell out of the NM as my main job pup, most time i end up getting some good drops without blm or proc. or sometime i duo etc with people some cant or dont wanna come blm they just wanna come they main job and have fun while farming seal/coin.

but ya most time you would have to be the one to start up the pts, last time when i was soloing Gnawtooth Gary for pup seals, i had some jerk telling me to leave the NM alone, but if i want to join i need change to blm><, was only 2 people and they didn need the pup seal guess they didn want my pup in that pt with them.

I'm with Fumikuu and Glitterhands on this. I've considered myself a career BLM since NA release. Back then, a lot of NA players thought I was crazy. But a JP player said to me "BLM is very good, but there are not enough players dedicated to that job." I've witnessed the rise and fall of various jobs since then, and if anything, I'd say that SE over-compensated - as usual.

But I enjoy BLM, even when my primary purpose is to be a proc-whore, so that's not a complaint. The diversity and uniqueness of jobs in this game is part of what makes it great, even if the implementation isn't perfect.

I know what you are saying ruisu, however no matter what you do someone is going to be left out. Be it melee during mana burn, everyone out but rngs during the arrow burns, everyone but smns during the smn burn, or mages during the bird parties.

Though out the years there has always been someone out. There is no way to make it "right" people by nature find the fastest way to complete task and leave middle men out.

This time it happend to be drg, rng, drk pld.

I found that me and a ninja/dnc friend could farm pretty much w/e we needed on nin + blm duo. This way I didnt have to help people farm seals and feel obligated to help them. If we didnt need (and I still do this) any seals I would shout before I left and see if anyone wanted them.

I know it sucks but I am not a fan of a couple of jobs I leveled. Brd and Blu. However I find them useful in certain situations and and quantify my pain by knowing I am getting what I need out of them. It's better than sitting in Jeuno. On top of that I like blue and brd now. It gives a change of pace and makes me a better player by understanding their needs cause I know what it's like to be in their shoes. That's neither here not there though.

In the end the sad truth is, FFXI and any mmo is going to be a kindergarden class. Someone is going to be left out on the playground. The question is do you want to be that guy sitting in Jeuno waiting for the perfect situation to suit your wants or are you going to level other jobs and expand you assets to get the job done?

Yeah wow is so balanced. Like when Paragon got the World First Nefarian 25HC using 11 druids in their setup.

Or wait like in ToR when BH/Tropper are the worst healers in the game. Good luck getting into an ops group unless you play a Sage/Sorc

Edited, Apr 7th 2012 2:34am by Telaki

Yet when I actually leveled PUP and needed the seals, they freaking disappeared from the face of Vana'diel.

I love XI.

Abyssea is littered with all the drk, sam, pld and mnk seals I've immediately discarded upon receiving them.

~.~ double post

Edited, Apr 8th 2012 6:33am by Telaki

I'm sure at least one of the devs also follows the whole "well, the can switch to another job!" bit. Thus missing the entire point of liking one job in particular.
Not really. That's be more like telling Mr. Paladin that wants to come Ret and smash faces that he can't and has to come Holy to be the healbitch instead. Or sitting Mr. Mage regardless of spec because the raid would be better-served by having a Warlock or Shadow Priest in that spot.

What I was aluding to is that no one turns down anyone outright. Considering that even BM hunters can raid, despite having been the red-headed stepchild of WoW since the Great BM Nerf two years ago, is testimony to this. By the way, Frost mages can and do raid. Their DPS is not lolworthy as it used to be. I can agree that there's DPS discrepancies, but having a Frost Mage in a raid is not instantly a massive loss of raid DPS like it used to be.

Your point might have a base in reality when the tell-tale sign of exclusion (pigeonholing the hybrids into tanking or healing) shows itself. Since no raids are turning down moonkins, ret paladins or shadow priests, we're nowhere near that point.

I think they needlessly worry about dumb things like job uniqueness, which then end up having negative effects.
Abyssea triggers were conceived around making the group bring as many jobs as you could to cover triggers, allowing everyone to participate. Their mistake was not revising weapon skill and spell spread between the jobs when it was implemented. The fact that a WAR and a NIN can cover all WS procs in itself shows why this is a problem. The fact a BLM/BRD, BLU and a WHM could cover all magic procs also shows why this is a problem.

Edited, Apr 8th 2012 5:22pm by Ruisu

Totally agree with your suggestion. People who complain about not being accepted to pick up groups that they aren't taking the time to put together, but merely joining, should start their own. The advice to come thief is the best we can give the OP.



This however, I do not understand. If you are going to pigeonhole yourself into a DD role only (which likely means you're an average DD at best since you only have played DDs and don't understand other job mechanics), I'm not really sure why you would expect a high rate of invitations to shout groups that are often heavily laden with above average DDs these days.

The problem is generally speaking people are more likely to want to DD than to heal or tank... so unless you make the whole game able to be zerged with no tank or heals, there is always going to be more competition for the DD slots... and given that pretty much everyone in this thread (myself included) has probably leveled/played as a job they like less (at least a bit) to play the job they like more, you won't see a lot of sympathy for those who refuse to step out of their box a little.

You're not being punished because you're sticking with a role/job you're good with or like. You're being "punished" because the role/job you're good with or like just happens to be the one 80%+ of the population is also good with or like.

It's just like the real life job market. Most of the work force in your area of expertise is also unemployed and looking for work? As long as you stick to that area of work, you're stuck competing with a very large group for a limited number of positions. You can keep complaining that the deck is stacked against you and that the government/society needs to "balance" things by creating more positions for the kind of work you do. Or you can take matters into your own hands. Retraining (i.e. leveling a new job) is just one of the ways for taking matters into your own hands.

Even back in pre-abyssea days, the best players I knew usually had at least two jobs leveled. Why? Versatility. They were usually complementary back then, though. Like a tank loving person would have both PLD and NIN at 75, and a back line job person would tackle WHM and BLM, and a DD would have WAR and SAM. Or some combo like that.

People would of course claim one or two of those jobs as their preferred job (man you ever see the fights over who got to come THF in Dynamis back in the day? wheee), but they'd always have a fallback one in case the situation warranted it.

That's not really the case though, is it.

It's the dime a dozen DD's that want to come auto-target only jobs and then complain when they aren't insta-handed an invitation to PUGs that are put together by others.

When in the history of the intrewebz, have you ever heard a top in demand video game MMO job complain they couldn't get invites?

"Man, I've been seeking for HOURS on Bard/Ninja and I can't get an invite to merit parties to pull!"

"Man, I really wish someone would invite my Dark to the Stun rotation of King V instead of asking me to come as the 3rd Thief!"

When? Never. Let's at least compare apples to apples here, or if you're uncreative, the OPs own example of 4 DD jobs, 3 if you consider Thief a utility job which is really the only thing he should be coming to a SEAL FARMING ALLIANCE that is designed to do as little melee damage as possible until the procs happen.

I guarantee we would see the same complaint if he were invited and asked to sit on the sidelines. "Abyssea is so unfair. Only certain jobs are allowed to hit the mob." (Soooo diifferent from HNMS pre-Abyssea, amirite?)

Agreed.

Plus this is the good and bad side when you make a game dedicated to jobs and doing certain things require certain jobs. The Proc system although brilliant does have its flaws, I would suggest level other jobs as I did...