Hiromichi Tanaka Leaving Square Enix for Health Reasons :: Final Fantasy XI

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#52 Jun 25 2012 at 1:14 PM Rating: Excellent

Viertel

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Xilk wrote:

Except your are dead wrong. ~~Its just as true in a Japanese company as a western one.~~

My what is dead wrong?

UltKnightGrover wrote:

To the people talking about the high-ups possibly overturning Tanaka's decisions, Tanaka wasn't just an ordinary producer. He was head of the whole Product Development Division, the whole sector of Square Enix that made part of the FF franchise. He was the successor of Sakaguchi to carry on the FF-name, as Yoshinori Kitase and Hiroyuki Ito were selected as well.

He was also Senior Vice President of Software Development.

Now if you're saying all of those positions he had had no say in the company or the products it was releasing, then that says something strong about Square-Enix as a whole.

This is what people fail to take into account. He wasn't just "some producer" that's had a position of tenure. He helped to start the damned franchise and was part of their original planning team. The man was part of the crew that helped to build the company! So yes, despite how many of you want to say his hands were tied really don't look at how Japanese businesses are run. Wada joined the company over a decade later and despite being CEO did not want to step on his toes.

You people also forget that Tanaka allowed FFXI to launched as bug ridden, little content, and coasted on the fact that it was Final Fantasy. He did this with RoZ, CoP, ToAU, WotG (many seem to want to forget how long it actually took for an expansion to actually be more than job unlocking, two or three missions, and a handful of quests), and it finally came back to bite him in the ass when he tried it with FFXIV. He depended on the mentality that gamers would accept "It's just an MMO, it can be patched later, it's Final Fantasy after all!" and it was a very, very poor judgement call.

As far as his health is concerned, many foot massages and back rubs off to the man. He was part of the crew that gave me Final Fantasy I/IV and Secret of Mana and I'll always thank the wanker for those timeless classics. If his health does end up doing a turnaround and he goes to work with Sakaguchi then I'll gladly try a game provided that he has absolutely zero input in the battle system planning.

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#53 Jun 25 2012 at 1:31 PM Rating: Excellent

Xilk

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I wonder if he goes over to mistwalker studios...

(Last Story is a wonderful game btw)

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#54 Jun 25 2012 at 3:33 PM Rating: Decent

Airget

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Viertel wrote:

Xilk wrote:

Except your are dead wrong. ~~Its just as true in a Japanese company as a western one.~~

My what is dead wrong?

UltKnightGrover wrote:

To the people talking about the high-ups possibly overturning Tanaka's decisions, Tanaka wasn't just an ordinary producer. He was head of the whole Product Development Division, the whole sector of Square Enix that made part of the FF franchise. He was the successor of Sakaguchi to carry on the FF-name, as Yoshinori Kitase and Hiroyuki Ito were selected as well.

He was also Senior Vice President of Software Development.

Now if you're saying all of those positions he had had no say in the company or the products it was releasing, then that says something strong about Square-Enix as a whole.

This is what people fail to take into account. He wasn't just "some producer" that's had a position of tenure. He helped to start the damned franchise and was part of their original planning team. The man was part of the crew that helped to build the company! So yes, despite how many of you want to say his hands were tied really don't look at how Japanese businesses are run. Wada joined the company over a decade later and despite being CEO did not want to step on his toes.

You people also forget that Tanaka allowed FFXI to launched as bug ridden, little content, and coasted on the fact that it was Final Fantasy. He did this with RoZ, CoP, ToAU, WotG (many seem to want to forget how long it actually took for an expansion to actually be more than job unlocking, two or three missions, and a handful of quests), and it finally came back to bite him in the ass when he tried it with FFXIV. He depended on the mentality that gamers would accept "It's just an MMO, it can be patched later, it's Final Fantasy after all!" and it was a very, very poor judgement call.

As far as his health is concerned, many foot massages and back rubs off to the man. He was part of the crew that gave me Final Fantasy I/IV and Secret of Mana and I'll always thank the wanker for those timeless classics. If his health does end up doing a turnaround and he goes to work with Sakaguchi then I'll gladly try a game provided that he has absolutely zero input in the battle system planning.

Some of what you say may be true but you can't blame Tanaka about 14's release completely. You have the blame the higher ups that wanted to beat the competition and make a quick buck before the new WoW expansion came out as well as Rift. They wanted to hook in those customers and though well, if we can get 500k to pay for this game for 3 months it will pay itself back, then we can push to bring out more content.

But they weren't aware of how much more time the game needed to be worked on and it bit them in the butt, but it's just easier to blame Tanaka cause his name is on the Producer list, let's not focus on the ones that force people to release games before they are ready.

Heck even look at Saga Frontier, I love this game but it's really sad to see how much was cut from the game because of production time, I would have loved to see this game released as they had planned but because of the time restraints they were given the were forced to release the game at x date.

But ya it's just easier to blame Tanaka and not the people looking at the numbers and game and thinking to themselves. Well it worked for XI so let's release the game like this, I mean we gave you more money for this game so with the time you've been working on it it has to be better right? I mean we know everything about games we just throw money at you, set up some propaganda and then hope the FF fans flock to the game and pay for a year. Oh and to top it off let's use this new subscription fee from a shady company.

So ya it's the company that lost it's connection with the people but keep this in mind, 14's disaster lead to SE becoming more intune with their customers to an extent.

I mean take a look over at capcom, they totally push aside Megaman, could care less about what the fans want and decide to release a lot of on-disk dlc just to pennypinch their customers, and they could care less about people wanting a megaman legends because they were to lazy to work on the design themselves and wanted the community to work on it. But since enough community members weren't helping they scratched the project and didn't even bother to release the demo they said they would. So at least SE isn't capcom XD at least SE can take a step back and admit their mistakes and as they try to remedy it release content and make changes as well as release games which show they are learning from their past errors.

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#55 Jun 25 2012 at 5:53 PM Rating: Excellent

rdmcandie

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I got a legitimate Eboner from the news. Not Tanka leaving in particular, but the whole weekend. I haven't had an Eboner since Diablo 3, but it made me feel cheap and dirty after 2 weeks.

I hope Tanka is well, and it is just a respectful exit, and if he is not well, I hope he gets well. Despite what he did lately, FFXI would not exist at all if not for this man. Farewell Tanaka.

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#56 Jun 25 2012 at 6:11 PM Rating: Excellent

TWA

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To allll those people saying "health reasons-yeah right lolol conspiracy"....

Did you actually *look* at the pictures on the main page? The Admins even have a somewhat 'then and now' side-by-side. He does NOT look healthy. Seriously, does that look like a 'healthy man' to you?

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#57 Jun 25 2012 at 7:40 PM Rating: Excellent

zoogelio

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I mean take a look over at capcom, they totally push aside Megaman, could care less about what the fans want and decide to release a lot of on-disk dlc just to pennypinch their customers, and they could care less about people wanting a megaman legends because they were to lazy to work on the design themselves and wanted the community to work on it. But since enough community members weren't helping they scratched the project and didn't even bother to release the demo they said they would. So at least SE isn't capcom XD at least SE can take a step back and admit their mistakes and as they try to remedy it release content and make changes as well as release games which show they are learning from their past errors.

Capcom has become the big bad behind EA. The list of horror stories out of them is crazy.
- The whole DLC fiasco. On-disc DLC and what it represents, charging $60 for incomplete games. Namco hilariously showed them how to make a game by releasing their crossover fighting game with all the characters on the disc for the sale price and no DLC. Capcom may have won the arcade wars, but Namco & SNK have higher regard from the fans because of their higher regard for the fans.
- DLC ending. Asura's Wrath? You have to pay extra for the ending.
- Overworking their dev teams severely. One even voiced his complaints, highly unusual for Japan, meaning it had to be really over the top.
- The sexual harrassment of a female dev team member. It was so over the top and had elements of psychological abuse too, not just the "Hey ba-by..." kind of harrassment.
- People aren't happy what they're doing with Resident Evil.
- Mega Man...

It goes beyond that. They cancelled Mega Man Legends 3, Mega Man Universe? (not sure of the name, some game fans were really intrested in) and Mega Man 11 was a no-show despite Mega Man 9 & 10 being very popular hits. They treated the fans like crap and the franchise like crap. While it wasn't a juggernaut or a big cash cow, it's like an endearing 'pet' animal on a farm, like an Old Bessie or something. It overlapped with Mario in terms of how it makes the gamers feel (feeling warm & fuzzy about a robot made from cold steel is kinda paradoxical), though was slow to adapt but could in different ways (MMBN not MMX7) but 2D is where it shines. They scrapped everything totally out of the blue. That MMU project was openly created as a thank you to MM fans for their long support and patience with Capcom. They were quite open on Capcom-Unity then went silent then scrapped it. And then they put Bad Box Art Mega Man in their big game, rubbing salt in the wound. This was how they wanted other gamers, particularly newer ones that wouldn't be as familiar with Mega Man, to see him. @#%^ that. At least fans got MM9 & MM10 before Capcom turned really evil (they turned evil for a time in the '90s with their ad nauseum Street Fighter II releases).

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#58 Jun 25 2012 at 8:26 PM Rating: Excellent

Xoie

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TWA wrote:

To allll those people saying "health reasons-yeah right lolol conspiracy"....

Did you actually *look* at the pictures on the main page? The Admins even have a somewhat 'then and now' side-by-side. He does NOT look healthy. Seriously, does that look like a 'healthy man' to you?

Absolutely. I've noticed he looked pretty rough in the lead up to FFXIV's launch, but I assumed it was mostly because he was unbelievably tired. Even the younger Naoki Yoshida, his replacement, has found the pace pretty extreme. While there's no doubt there was pressure from within SE for Tanaka to leave over the failure of FFXIV, his "health reason" has the virtue of truth that being producer of a game on a tight deadline is a tough job for someone who doesn't have the benefit of youth to endure a seemingly endless string of late nights, even if the man really isn't terminally ill.

He's made his share of mistakes, but Chrono Cross is my most favorite PS1 game of all time, and obviously being one of the founding developers of Final Fantasy has immortalized Hiromichi Tanaka. Part of me suspects we'll see him emerge along side Sakaguchi and his company for a new game someday.

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#59 Jun 26 2012 at 2:09 AM Rating: Excellent

Ruisu

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Viertel wrote:

You people also forget that Tanaka allowed FFXI to launched as bug ridden, little content, and coasted on the fact that it was Final Fantasy. He did this with RoZ, CoP, ToAU, WotG (many seem to want to forget how long it actually took for an expansion to actually be more than job unlocking, two or three missions, and a handful of quests), and it finally came back to bite him in the ass when he tried it with FFXIV. He depended on the mentality that gamers would accept "It's just an MMO, it can be patched later, it's Final Fantasy after all!" and it was a very, very poor judgement call.

This is something that people either ignore or underplay for some reason. It was a gamble that rode on the Final Fantasy name. 10 years ago people didn't have much of a frame of reference between Everquest and Lineage I. Now, you have a ton of other MMOs that compete for your dollar and the name suddenly matters less if mechanics, responsiveness and game features are not up to par.

Xoie wrote:

Part of me suspects we'll see him emerge along side Sakaguchi and his company for a new game someday.

My prediction is that by December Tanaka will have recovered, announce his joining Mistwalker after New Years. Coincidentally, by March of 2013 rumors of Last Story 2 will emmerge, and then a trailer will make an appearance at e3, with Tanaka Hiromichi listed as Producer, Sakaguchi listed as Director. I don't know, but I really would like to see what their combined talents would create.

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#60 Jun 26 2012 at 3:05 AM Rating: Good

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It appears that a major contributor to Tanaka's decision was his health. While not going into specifics, he says that he has a major illness, and consideration of his health lead to the decision.

This wasn't the only reason, though. He also said that he asked to resign because he wants to return to the game development scene as a single creator.

If he was seriously ill he wouldn't of added the last bit, stress is his biggest health issue I would think. He also knows FFXI is in a terrible state from his last comment.

Quote:

Matsui will be working hard on Final Fantasy XIV's upcoming Version 2.0 update, and will then put his efforts into building up FFXI.

http://andriasang.com/con1n4/tanaka_departure_interview/

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#61 Jun 26 2012 at 6:09 AM Rating: Default

Lonix

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Can't believe a discussion about him leaving is now turning in to the conspiracy/lies .. sounds like a soap opera.

How about every one just rejoice that he is leaving or say good bye farewell etc ;)

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#62 Jun 26 2012 at 8:43 AM Rating: Excellent

VZX

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Looks like work and health BALANCE was a bit off on his side.

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#63 Jun 26 2012 at 6:14 PM Rating: Excellent

zoogelio

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You people also forget that Tanaka allowed FFXI to launched as bug ridden, little content, and coasted on the fact that it was Final Fantasy. He did this with RoZ, CoP, ToAU, WotG (many seem to want to forget how long it actually took for an expansion to actually be more than job unlocking, two or three missions, and a handful of quests), and it finally came back to bite him in the ass when he tried it with FFXIV. He depended on the mentality that gamers would accept "It's just an MMO, it can be patched later, it's Final Fantasy after all!" and it was a very, very poor judgement call.

This is something that people either ignore or underplay for some reason. It was a gamble that rode on the Final Fantasy name. 10 years ago people didn't have much of a frame of reference between Everquest and Lineage I. Now, you have a ton of other MMOs that compete for your dollar and the name suddenly matters less if mechanics, responsiveness and game features are not up to par.

If I can followup on this. One has to remember how small and early on 2002 was in the MMO genre. Square had zero experience with MMOs. Heck, did any Japanese company have experience with MMOs then? It wasn't just make a POS and slap a Final Fantasy name on it, stick an internet connection in a server, and let the money rake in. The game's appeal way back was offering a multiplayer Final Fantasy game, taking the classic old school FF (even using the original 6 Light Warrior job classes as the starting 6 jobs) and melding it with a cutting edge field. And all MMOs had issues at first, things that looked good on paper that don't play out well in practice (RDM as a jack of all trades with few unique spells). I'd compare FFXI to FFI, which was also a bug-filled mess (their 1st console RPG. Their notable earlier games were Rad Racer and 3-D WorldRunner). People often make the mistake of projecting current perceptions or understanding of something onto the past and think people thought that way back then, that the dynamics of the MMO field were the same now as it was then.

And they fixed some big bugs early on (some AH issue in June 2002), were constantly tweaking the job classes seeking out balance. But unlike FFXIV, they had A LOT of content early on. Look at the NMs & missions alone...
http://forums.ffxiclopedia.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=26148
NMs is the best way to illustrate a difference between FFXI & FFXIV. FFXIV had a some quasi-NMs & token cases in Dec 2010 and then a batch of what, 12-15? in April 2011? I eyeball 49 NMs (regular, not quest or mission NMs) by June 2002. FFXI at launch, after just under 2 years of active development, had way more content than FFXIV had with what 5 1/2- 6 years of development?

And a possible thought on "incurable disease" + desire to make offline games again being reconcilable (not saying it's true, just possible)-- he could have an incurable desire, but not a terminal one, or at least not terminal for many years, and just that the disease would make it increasingly difficult to manage a big active project like a MMO. Remember, he mentioned having a phone that does ring in the middle of the night when there was server trouble or other issues in FFXI. Having to be on-call 24-7 potentially does wear one down (I like to imagine it as the Batphone). Ultimately, who knows, time will tell. If he wants to make a swan song game of any franchise (FF, Chrono, Mana, SaGa), hope SE lets him.

Edited, Jun 26th 2012 8:25pm by zoogelio

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#64 Jun 27 2012 at 1:02 AM Rating: Default

Lobivopis

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In Japan "health reasons" is what they say when someone is being forced into an early retirement.

Also say goodbye to the FFXI UI overhaul, Tanaka was the driving force behind it. The higher ups at SE are likely to cancel it without him pushing for it.

zoogelio wrote:

They cancelled Mega Man Legends 3

This in particular makes me rage

Edited, Jun 27th 2012 4:10am by Lobivopis

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Adjust the resolution of menus.
The main screen resolution for "FINAL FANTASY XI" is dependent on the "Overlay Graphics Resolution" setting.
If the Overlay Graphics Resolution is set higher than the Menu Resolution, menus will be automatically resized.

I thought of it first:

http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/forum.html?forum=10&mid=130073657654872218#20

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#65 Jun 27 2012 at 1:17 AM Rating: Decent

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Lobivopis wrote:

In Japan "health reasons" is what they say when someone is being forced into an early retirement.

And in America, everything is a conspiracy.

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#66 Jun 27 2012 at 4:07 PM Rating: Decent

jtftaru

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This is what the guy has actually done.

Tanaka's game credits

1984 The Death Trap Home computer

1986 Alpha Home computer
Suishō no Dragon Family Computer Disk System

1987 Genesis Home computer
Nakayama Miho no Tokimeki High School Family Computer Disk System
Final Fantasy Nintendo Entertainment System

1988 Final Fantasy II Nintendo Entertainment System Game design

1989 Square's Tom Sawyer Nintendo Entertainment System Cooperation

1990 Final Fantasy III Nintendo Entertainment System Game design
Final Fantasy Legend II Game Boy Main program

1991 Final Fantasy IV Super Nintendo Entertainment System Special thanks

1993 Secret of Mana Super Nintendo Entertainment System Producer, concept / System design, scenario message data

1995 Seiken Densetsu 3 Super Nintendo Entertainment System Director

1998 Xenogears PlayStation Producer, battle planner

1999 Threads of Fate PlayStation Producer
Chrono Cross PlayStation Producer, battle system design

2002 Final Fantasy XI PlayStation 2, Microsoft Windows Producer

2006 Final Fantasy III Nintendo DS Director, executive producer

2007 Heroes of Mana Nintendo DS Special thanks

2008 Dissidia Final Fantasy PlayStation Portable Special thanks

2009 SaGa 2 Hihō Densetsu: Goddess of Destiny Nintendo DS Executive producer

2010 Final Fantasy XIV Microsoft Windows Producer (until December 2010)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hiromichi_Tanaka

Edited, Jun 27th 2012 6:09pm by jtftaru

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#67 Jun 27 2012 at 4:14 PM Rating: Excellent

Aliekber

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Theonehio wrote:

Lobivopis wrote:

In Japan "health reasons" is what they say when someone is being forced into an early retirement.

And in America, everything is a conspiracy.

That's what the Chinese spy satellites in my teeth tell me, too.

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Human (?) females look ugly.

Post in /K/ where the orbital laser system is now online.

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#68 Jun 27 2012 at 5:37 PM Rating: Excellent

Seriha

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Aliekber wrote:

Theonehio wrote:

Lobivopis wrote:

In Japan "health reasons" is what they say when someone is being forced into an early retirement.

And in America, everything is a conspiracy.

That's what the Chinese spy satellites in my teeth tell me, too.

How often do they catch naked women?

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#69 Jun 27 2012 at 5:54 PM Rating: Excellent

Aliekber

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Seriha wrote:

Aliekber wrote:

Theonehio wrote:

Lobivopis wrote:

In Japan "health reasons" is what they say when someone is being forced into an early retirement.

And in America, everything is a conspiracy.

That's what the Chinese spy satellites in my teeth tell me, too.

How often do they catch naked women?

The satellites, or my teeth?

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Sandinmygum the Stupendous wrote:

Human (?) females look ugly.

Post in /K/ where the orbital laser system is now online.

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#70 Jun 27 2012 at 6:05 PM Rating: Excellent

Seriha

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I'll just assume the satellites have more luck. ;)

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#71 Jun 27 2012 at 6:11 PM Rating: Excellent

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I've said it before in other threads, seeing as this is one dedicated just to Tanaka then I'll say it here.

For single player console RPG's the man was brilliant. He's helped make and in some cased been responsible for some of the greatest RPG's ever made. I'll always thank him for that. I still on occasion load out SoM, SoM2, CC or one of the FF's to enjoy it.

As in any field, in development you need to use the right tool for the right job. For MMORPG's he is not that tool. He worships maintaing a status quo and doesn't want to have the game change with it's playerbase. MMO's are dynamic environments that need to constantly evolve and change or else players will move on to the next big thing. And it's this constant dynamic changing that Tanaka was unable to get right. There is no shame in not having the right skill set for a specific task, move on to something you do have the skill set for and allow someone else to take over running the MMOs.

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#72 Jun 27 2012 at 6:31 PM Rating: Excellent

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1995 Seiken Densetsu 3 Super Nintendo Entertainment System Director

I never knew he was on this one... It is a damn shame they didn't release this in the U.S.A. it's quite possibly one of the best SNES games I have ever played. Heck I would encourage everyone to grab a snes emulator and this rom and play it.

Now that I think about it, SD3 required you to grind an item to unlock advance form of your job, kinda like how in ffxi you had to grind out items to get your subjob or level's post 50+ in ffxi. Huh guess now I know where they got that idea from. worked fine in SD3, blew in ffxi tho.

Edited, Jun 27th 2012 8:31pm by Devildawgs

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#73 Jun 27 2012 at 7:55 PM Rating: Excellent

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Seriha wrote:

I'll just assume the satellites have more luck. ;)

Zing!

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#74 Jun 29 2012 at 4:22 PM Rating: Excellent

Szabo

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Camate wrote:

After receiving over 150 heart-felt posts thanking him for his hard work on FINAL FANTASY XI, Producer Hiromichi Tanaka took some time to write his thank you to all of the adventurers of Vana’diel.

Hiromichi Tanaka wrote:

Thank you all so much for the warm words. It was due to all of you that we were able to successfully put on VanaFest 2012 and I deeply appreciate all of you adventurers who have been supportive.

Despite my resignation announcement, the following day was the regular run of the mill busy day filled with preparations for the next version update and organizing data for succession and it all hasn’t really sunk in yet. I am sure that up until the last day of next month I will be working just as usual.

As for my illness which everyone has been so kindly concerned about, it is not something that is curable with modern medicine, but neither is it something that will worsen, so it’s an illness that I will have no choice but to deal with.

Finally, I would like to once again introduce my successor Akihiko Matsui and the rest of the development and operations staff who will be working hard together to develop the new expansion as well as the next version update.

Thank you all very much!

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/24637-BYE-TANAKA!?p=331567#post331567

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rank 4:wyrm bears for all!

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#75 Jun 29 2012 at 4:39 PM Rating: Excellent

Aliekber

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Well, I'm glad to hear he's stable, at the least, even if he won't get better. As much as I've complained about him in the past, I wish him luck in his future endeavors.

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Sandinmygum the Stupendous wrote:

Human (?) females look ugly.

Post in /K/ where the orbital laser system is now online.

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#76 Jun 29 2012 at 5:42 PM Rating: Excellent

Elwynbelwyn

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Hiromichi Tanaka wrote:

As for my illness which everyone has been so kindly concerned about, it is not something that is curable with modern medicine, but neither is it something that will worsen, so it’s an illness that I will have no choice but to deal with.

So you're saying it's... balanced?

(sorry, someone had to do it)

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#77 Jul 25 2012 at 12:58 PM Rating: Good

Szabo

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Okipuit wrote:

Good morning, everyone!

Producer Hiromichi Tanaka wished to express his gratitude to you, The FINAL FANTASY XI community

Thank you for all the great memories and we wish you all the best, Tanaka-P!

Hiromichi Tanaka wrote:

I received all these messages from everyone. Thank you all so much!
I’ve read through this entire thread, and I cannot give enough thanks to everyone.

It has come down to the final bit of time before I retire. I haven’t even begun to start cleaning up yet, but I am sure everything will be fine.

Thank you all very much and please continue supporting FINAL FANTASY XI.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/24637-BYE-TANAKA!?p=342992#post342992

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rank 4:wyrm bears for all!

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#78 Jul 26 2012 at 2:39 AM Rating: Excellent

Archetelos

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Wow...he's lost a lot of weight compared to the past few pics we've seen of him; hope it's not due to his illness.

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#79 Jul 27 2012 at 12:45 AM Rating: Good

zoogelio

Sage

1,720 posts

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Did he dye his hair since we last saw pictures of him?

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Somewhere out there, there is a road with 2 signs on it. One says "No Trespassing". The sign right next to it says "FREE KITTENS".
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