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New 2 Hour AbilitiesFollow

#202 Aug 15 2012 at 12:39 AM Rating: Default
It would of been nice if they could of given us two hours that the npc's use in storyline or from past final fantasy games.

Dark Knight: dark wave from Cecil, or what Zeid does in Bastok mission 10, separates into three.

Sch: I don't care how you rate it the new two hour blows. While it will give enemity to all,, it will only take one AoE move to kill many or a enemity reset move to wipe it. In addition it is not just embrava or our darknes spell, but the fact unlimited charges for 120 seconds. What would of been nice, two new charges.

Elementalga: Let us GA all out elemental or dark magic. "I say this as the sch does two hour this in storyline"
Enlightga: Triples the rate of cure, regen spells.

Blu: The new two hour blows. All those spells have a timer. Even if they CA efflux stack the timer issue is not there. To fix:

Let it turn us into a monster for a period of time. At the end, we can have 1 hp like a self destruct spell would do. Again this would follow storyline.

Other jobs have similar things but I think it would be great if it worked out this way. It would truly be nice if the expansion had new storylines for the jobs. As it is the jobs have grown 10x years, so how have they matured in the game or developed?
#203 Aug 15 2012 at 7:50 AM Rating: Excellent
kimjongil76 wrote:
It would of been nice if they could of given us two hours that the npc's use in storyline or from past final fantasy games.

Dark Knight: dark wave from Cecil, or what Zeid does in Bastok mission 10, separates into three.

Sch: I don't care how you rate it the new two hour blows. While it will give enemity to all,, it will only take one AoE move to kill many or a enemity reset move to wipe it. In addition it is not just embrava or our darknes spell, but the fact unlimited charges for 120 seconds. What would of been nice, two new charges.

Elementalga: Let us GA all out elemental or dark magic. "I say this as the sch does two hour this in storyline"
Enlightga: Triples the rate of cure, regen spells.

Blu: The new two hour blows. All those spells have a timer. Even if they CA efflux stack the timer issue is not there. To fix:

Let it turn us into a monster for a period of time. At the end, we can have 1 hp like a self destruct spell would do. Again this would follow storyline.

Other jobs have similar things but I think it would be great if it worked out this way. It would truly be nice if the expansion had new storylines for the jobs. As it is the jobs have grown 10x years, so how have they matured in the game or developed?


1) I think the new two hour given is probably one of the best they could have asked for. Having just a single, damaging attack in comparison would be a huge slap to the face of most Dark Knights.

2) It falls in line with many of the other one-shot deal two-hours that some jobs have. White Mage currently has Benediction, Ninja has Mijin Gakure, etc. In general, yes, it's inferior, but it's meant to be for those sudden situations where doing that might save the alliance because this huge monster wiped hate on the tank and is now barreling towards others. In most cases Embrava and unlimited Stratagems would be better, but I have seen some circumstances where being able to redirect everyone's enmity on to one target would be a great insta-save.

3) We don't know whether or not they do. This two-hour isn't one available on the test server, so even if they do have recast times normally, that might be different for the sake of when the two-hour is up. For all we know they might have it as a chainspell effect of sorts, simply with those Unbridled Learning spells.

As for changing into a Soulflayer (which is the only monster that Blue Mages change into storyline wise), that wouldn't work because it's established that Blue Mages become Soulflayers if we fail to maintain the balance between our humanity and the beast within, and once we become a flayer we cannot revert back. It's a situation of once we start turning, we're doomed.
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#204 Aug 15 2012 at 9:22 AM Rating: Good
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I find it amusing that they're SE is whining about how the playerbase is telling them to scrap abilities that are utterly useless.
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#205 Aug 15 2012 at 11:00 AM Rating: Excellent
cidbahamut wrote:
I find it amusing that they're SE is whining about how the playerbase is telling them to scrap abilities that are utterly useless.


Well, what it's really boiling down to is that most people aren't actually giving them info as to what aspect(s) of the new two-hours they're not liking. Just saying things like "This sucks" or "Throw it away" isn't really helping things too much, because it's not giving them enough to work with necessarily. I mean, look at what Jinte did when she commented about the Pup 2-hour. Rather than just saying that it sucks, Jinte went through and pointed out the exact flaws with it and what could be done to improve it. Square Enix isn't necessarily saying to stop telling them that the abilities suck, they're just saying give them more to work with than just that.
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#206 Aug 15 2012 at 1:15 PM Rating: Good
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I hope my "any ability which consumes our expensive pet that we can only call on a long timer sucks" comment was constructive enough.
#207 Aug 15 2012 at 1:45 PM Rating: Good
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Olorinus wrote:
I hope my "any ability which consumes our expensive pet that we can only call on a long timer sucks" comment was constructive enough.

Maybe it should also reset Call Beast timer?
#208 Aug 15 2012 at 2:03 PM Rating: Excellent
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svlyons wrote:
Olorinus wrote:
I hope my "any ability which consumes our expensive pet that we can only call on a long timer sucks" comment was constructive enough.

Maybe it should also reset Call Beast timer?


I'm not even a BST and i know that should have been the first effect listed if they insist on consuming a pet for some kind of effect on the Master.
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#209 Aug 15 2012 at 2:09 PM Rating: Decent
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I don't see why there should ever even be a need to consume a pet. The fact that SE thinks that's ever an acceptable thing says quite a lot about their design team.

Then we have stuff like Scholar's new 2-hour. Whoever put that one down on paper really needs to get raked over the coals. When SE is coming to us with rubbish like that they don't deserve an elaborate explanation of how to improve the ability. All they deserve is our contempt and a dismissive response because they didn't put any effort or thought into their design before bringing it before the playerbase.
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I think RDM's neurotic omniscience is sooooooo worth including in any alliance.
#210 Aug 15 2012 at 2:15 PM Rating: Excellent
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Yeah that's what gets me. It's like "we think this lackluster effect on an extremely long timer is overpowered, so we'll take away +50% of your combat ability and your [expensive, consumable] meat shield [on a long timer] to make up for it."

It would be like giving mighty strikes a "weakness effect" sort of hangover, or hundred fists a accuracy down effect. It's a frigging move on a two hour timer! Can't it just be GOOD without any downside? If PUP's auto isn't expected to disappear after using benediction, why the heck would it be considered overpowered to let bst keep their pet after getting what is, essentially, just a self-target only benediction - meanwhile whm benediction has no downsides other than enemity and hits the whole party

Edited, Aug 15th 2012 1:16pm by Olorinus
#211 Aug 15 2012 at 2:21 PM Rating: Excellent
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I also find it extremely concerning that they still think 2 hours is an acceptable cool down time for an ability.
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IcookPizza wrote:

I think RDM's neurotic omniscience is sooooooo worth including in any alliance.
#212 Aug 15 2012 at 2:29 PM Rating: Decent
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cidbahamut wrote:
I don't see why there should ever even be a need to consume a pet. The fact that SE thinks that's ever an acceptable thing says quite a lot about their design team.

Then we have stuff like Scholar's new 2-hour. Whoever put that one down on paper really needs to get raked over the coals. When SE is coming to us with rubbish like that they don't deserve an elaborate explanation of how to improve the ability. All they deserve is our contempt and a dismissive response because they didn't put any effort or thought into their design before bringing it before the playerbase.

To be fair, the scholar's new 2-hour is actually extremely potent from the description essentially dumping the sum total of everybody's accumulated enmity onto a single target. In a party alone this would actually be a pretty strong ability, but in an alliance it could be a serious life saver.

It's not that the 2-hour is particularly weak that bothers me, it's that it shares the same timer as our extremely potent Tabula Rasa, which not only gives us unlimited strategems (and automatically recharges any we had already used) but unlocks two of our most powerful spells, and arguably the most powerful spells in the game, Embrava and Kaustra. A potent regen, haste, TP gain spell and a very powerful DoT, both of which can be cast multiple times and are compatible with every strategem we have.

It's like choosing to use a butter knife over a steak knife when you're chowing down on a giant slab of beef. It simply makes no sense.
#213 Aug 15 2012 at 2:32 PM Rating: Excellent
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cidbahamut wrote:
When SE is coming to us with rubbish like that they don't deserve an elaborate explanation of how to improve the ability. All they deserve is our contempt and a dismissive response because they didn't put any effort or thought into their design before bringing it before the playerbase.

You don't give constructive feedback because you think the developer's have meritted it. You give constructive feedback because you want to try and improve the game.
#214 Aug 15 2012 at 2:39 PM Rating: Good
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Glitterhands wrote:
cidbahamut wrote:
I don't see why there should ever even be a need to consume a pet. The fact that SE thinks that's ever an acceptable thing says quite a lot about their design team.

Then we have stuff like Scholar's new 2-hour. Whoever put that one down on paper really needs to get raked over the coals. When SE is coming to us with rubbish like that they don't deserve an elaborate explanation of how to improve the ability. All they deserve is our contempt and a dismissive response because they didn't put any effort or thought into their design before bringing it before the playerbase.

To be fair, the scholar's new 2-hour is actually extremely potent from the description essentially dumping the sum total of everybody's accumulated enmity onto a single target. In a party alone this would actually be a pretty strong ability, but in an alliance it could be a serious life saver.

Not really. Until the enmity system gets overhauled it will remain absolute rubbish.
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IcookPizza wrote:

I think RDM's neurotic omniscience is sooooooo worth including in any alliance.
#215 Aug 15 2012 at 2:42 PM Rating: Decent
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svlyons wrote:
cidbahamut wrote:
When SE is coming to us with rubbish like that they don't deserve an elaborate explanation of how to improve the ability. All they deserve is our contempt and a dismissive response because they didn't put any effort or thought into their design before bringing it before the playerbase.

You don't give constructive feedback because you think the developer's have meritted it. You give constructive feedback because you want to try and improve the game.

And my advice is for them to go sit in a damn corner and think about why they have been reprimanded.

It's one thing to come to the table with mediocre game design and ask for feedback, it is quite another to show up with truly terrible game design and then wonder why your playerbase is so upset. It's like they're so far removed from the reality of the game that they don't understand what they have done wrong and that is the real problem here.
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IcookPizza wrote:

I think RDM's neurotic omniscience is sooooooo worth including in any alliance.
#216REDACTED, Posted: Aug 15 2012 at 2:57 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) BLM overnukes, SCH uses their new 2-hour and the NM's target is now fixed solidly on the Paladin / Ninja / Rune Knight / <Insert tank here>.
#217 Aug 15 2012 at 3:01 PM Rating: Good
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Glitterhands wrote:
cidbahamut wrote:
Glitterhands wrote:
cidbahamut wrote:
I don't see why there should ever even be a need to consume a pet. The fact that SE thinks that's ever an acceptable thing says quite a lot about their design team.

Then we have stuff like Scholar's new 2-hour. Whoever put that one down on paper really needs to get raked over the coals. When SE is coming to us with rubbish like that they don't deserve an elaborate explanation of how to improve the ability. All they deserve is our contempt and a dismissive response because they didn't put any effort or thought into their design before bringing it before the playerbase.

To be fair, the scholar's new 2-hour is actually extremely potent from the description essentially dumping the sum total of everybody's accumulated enmity onto a single target. In a party alone this would actually be a pretty strong ability, but in an alliance it could be a serious life saver.

Not really. Until the enmity system gets overhauled it will remain absolute rubbish.

BLM overnukes, SCH uses their new 2-hour and the NM's target is now fixed solidly on the Paladin / Ninja / Rune Knight / <Insert tank here>. and the DDs all have capped hate so it doesn't matter.

Ok, so you don't know how the enmity system works. Got it.
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IcookPizza wrote:

I think RDM's neurotic omniscience is sooooooo worth including in any alliance.
#218 Aug 15 2012 at 4:27 PM Rating: Excellent
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The sch 2-hr should be a 3 or 5min ja honestly. It's not worthy of a 2hr and I'm not going to use it over embrava ever.
#219 Aug 15 2012 at 5:44 PM Rating: Excellent
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cidbahamut wrote:
[/spoiler]
BLM overnukes, SCH uses their new 2-hour and the NM's target is now fixed solidly on the Paladin / Ninja / Rune Knight / <Insert tank here>. and the DDs all have capped hate so it doesn't matter.



Not to mention enmity douse... agree with Cid here, this sch ability is NOT two hour worthy. Then again, most of the suggested ones are crap.


Edited, Aug 15th 2012 4:45pm by Olorinus
#220 Aug 15 2012 at 9:24 PM Rating: Decent
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cidbahamut wrote:
Glitterhands wrote:
cidbahamut wrote:
Glitterhands wrote:
cidbahamut wrote:
I don't see why there should ever even be a need to consume a pet. The fact that SE thinks that's ever an acceptable thing says quite a lot about their design team.

Then we have stuff like Scholar's new 2-hour. Whoever put that one down on paper really needs to get raked over the coals. When SE is coming to us with rubbish like that they don't deserve an elaborate explanation of how to improve the ability. All they deserve is our contempt and a dismissive response because they didn't put any effort or thought into their design before bringing it before the playerbase.

To be fair, the scholar's new 2-hour is actually extremely potent from the description essentially dumping the sum total of everybody's accumulated enmity onto a single target. In a party alone this would actually be a pretty strong ability, but in an alliance it could be a serious life saver.

Not really. Until the enmity system gets overhauled it will remain absolute rubbish.

BLM overnukes, SCH uses their new 2-hour and the NM's target is now fixed solidly on the Paladin / Ninja / Rune Knight / <Insert tank here>.
and the DDs all have capped hate so it doesn't matter.

So the DD's no longer have capped hate and your primary tank now has control.

Ok, so you don't know how the enmity system works. Got it.

Clearly you missed the part where it floors enmity for everyone else...
#221 Aug 16 2012 at 3:37 PM Rating: Good
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Okipuit wrote:

Greetings!

During this week’s Test Server update we will be making the below changes and additions to the new 2-hour abilities.

New 2-hours will be added to the below jobs:

- Bard/Samurai/Blue Mage/Corsair/Scholar

*Currently there is a known issue wherein using the 2-hour abilities for bard, blue Mage, and scholar via the action command menu will result in not being able select the target properly. (In regards to blue mage, the spells for Unbridled Learning are grayed out and cannot be selected.)
We apologize for this, but please use the above job’s abilities and blue magic with either command line execution or macros.


Effect adjustments:

- Paladin

Addition of an enmity increase effect equivalent to Invincible
(We understand the feedback about the enmity cap, but we would like to look into and address this separately from the 2-hour abilities.)

- Beastmaster
Reraise effect will be changed to a Stoneskin effect
(The strength of the Stoneskin effect will differ depending on the type of jug pet called, and will be half of the pet’s max HP.)

While this week’s update will only encompass the above changes, we are continuing to look into other jobs as well, so there is a possibility for further changes and adjustments.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/26191-New-2-hour-Abilities?p=353495#post353495

Edited, Aug 16th 2012 5:38pm by Szabo
#222 Aug 17 2012 at 8:29 AM Rating: Excellent
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/26302

Quote:

[dev1135] New Special Job Abilities

New special job abilities will be introduced.
*These special abilities will share the same recast time as previous ones.
*The abilities displayed with a gray background have not been included in the August 17 test server update.

Job Effect
Warrior Auto-attacks will not be considered physical damage. Greatly increases accuracy.
Monk Counters almost every enemy auto-attack and greatly increases enmity.
White Mage Prevents party members from receiving status ailments.
Black Mage Greatly lowers the amount of enmity accrued from spells.
Red Mage Bolsters the effects of enhancing magic.
Thief Deals severe damage and transfers your enmity to the party member in front of you.
Paladin Greatly increases chance of blocking with shield and damages target. Increases enmity.
Dark Knight Auto-attacks absorb target's TP.
Beastmaster Sacrifice your pet to recover HP and remove status ailments.
Grants the effect of Stoneskin.
Bard Greatly reduces target's magic defense, magic evasion, INT and MND.
Ranger Allows you to deliver optimally accurate and powerful ranged attacks from any distance.
Arrows are not expended during attacks.
Samurai Evades all special attacks that deal physical or magic damage.
Enhances the potency of your next weapon skill every time you evade a special attack.
Ninja Greatly increases the chance of parrying.
Reduces ninjutsu casting times by half and eliminates the need for ninja tools.
Dragoon Recovers wyvern's HP and removes status ailments. Enhances breath effects.
Summoner Eliminates "Blood Pact" recast times.
Blue Mage Allows unlimited casting of blue magic spells that use Unbridled Learning.
Corsair Allows for up to three Phantom Rolls to be in effect simultaneously.
Puppetmaster Allows automatons to use a special ability that varies by head.
Harlequin Head: Mighty Strikes
Valoredge Head: Invisible
Sharpshot Head: Eagle Eye Shot
Stormwaker Head: Chainspell
Soulsoother Head: Benediction (will only affect the automaton and members of its master's party)
Spiritreaver Head: Manafont
Dancer Gives five finishing moves and resets flourish recast timers.
Eliminates the cost of finishing moves.
Scholar Transfers the whole party's enmity to a party member of your choice.

*The names, help text, and effects that appear on the test server for these abilities are still under development and are subject to change.



Rather than having them gray, I just made them bold.
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#223 Aug 17 2012 at 3:11 PM Rating: Excellent
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Did anyone bother to tell them that combining reverse flourish with waiting about 30 seconds for flourish recast to reset ONCE doesn't make an acceptable 2hour for DNC?
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#224 Aug 17 2012 at 4:47 PM Rating: Excellent
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Erecia wrote:
Did anyone bother to tell them that combining reverse flourish with waiting about 30 seconds for flourish recast to reset ONCE doesn't make an acceptable 2hour for DNC?


Repeatedly.
#225 Aug 20 2012 at 1:01 PM Rating: Good
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Okipuit wrote:

Good morning!

We just wanted to give a brief update regarding monk’s new 2-hour ability and apologies that it is taking a bit to implement it onto the Test Server.
We are currently making adjustments for how AoE damage will be handled while this new ability is active. We performed various tests to see if we could make it possible to counter AoE attacks, but there were some difficulties with log recognition, so we decided to look into an alternative effect. Our objective is to implement this with the next Test Server update and we are working very hard so everyone can try it out!


http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/26191-New-2-hour-Abilities?p=354946#post354946
#226 Aug 20 2012 at 7:24 PM Rating: Default
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Vlorsutes wrote:
cidbahamut wrote:
I find it amusing that they're SE is whining about how the playerbase is telling them to scrap abilities that are utterly useless.


Well, what it's really boiling down to is that most people aren't actually giving them info as to what aspect(s) of the new two-hours they're not liking. Just saying things like "This sucks" or "Throw it away" isn't really helping things too much, because it's not giving them enough to work with necessarily. I mean, look at what Jinte did when she commented about the Pup 2-hour. Rather than just saying that it sucks, Jinte went through and pointed out the exact flaws with it and what could be done to improve it. Square Enix isn't necessarily saying to stop telling them that the abilities suck, they're just saying give them more to work with than just that.

sadly, most of the community lacks the level of creativity I have and the knowledge of game mechanics to come up with realistic, workable alternatives for their respective jobs, and I'm not well versed enough in the current state of affairs with the jobs I don't currently play to be able to propose viable alternatives. If this were a few years ago, I could probably belt out 20 rock solid ideas, but I know the status quo has shifted since then.
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