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#1 Aug 25 2012 at 4:33 AM Rating: Decent
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You're trying to do Dominion ops #13 off the Fear Dearg in Abyssea - Altepa Desert, only to have the person running a Fell Cleave camp for under leveled mules. Runs on-to your mobs and either using fell cleave next to you or casting -aga. Then runs back to the mule camp and calles you a thief for taking their mobs and that they were there first.

I normally farm 4 to 5 (my solo limit) at a time per Dominion ops mostly for the notes, seal and/or the skill up I'm getting on parry. Normaly I don't care as every Afk at the conflux can't do squat in game once they cap off. However lately I'm seeing mule parties there whining more about other people farming or kiling the same mobs and how it's cutting into their curor/gill/exp/hr (whatever they charge for a slot). Last night the jerk was actually complaining that I was stealing his mobs when he came right to me (even on the other side near the ??? NM) and either used some spell-aga, provoke or Fell Cleave on what I was already fighting or pulling back to avoid unwanted links. Then he continues to run around the oasis to s/i agro whatever is still there, and complain more when I try to get any of them back.

Much as I miss the days when people tried to avoid catching the train in places like garlaige citadel, or the Jungle. I do wish I could just take every afk there on the goblin express and shut the whole thing down. I remember seeing somthing similar some where else about that spot in Aby- Altepa. But seriously on my prior ops farms nobody made a deal about it; as what's 5 mandys out of the whole lot there. The majority of their exp comes from the chests anyway, and that many mobs in one area were not put there for one person to hoard for themselves.

I don't know how annoying this is getting across servers or if it's even a problem in some places. As I undetstand there may have been somthing like this way, way, back where folks were trying to sell similar serivces prior to the Abyssea add-on's. However, does anyone else have any similar stories or encountered these types of prople. How would/did you go about dealing this these types of players. Or simply what are you finding annoying as of late within the game itself.

Edited, Aug 25th 2012 6:26pm by akudama

Edited, Aug 25th 2012 6:30pm by akudama
#2 Aug 25 2012 at 6:24 AM Rating: Decent
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Runs on-to your mobs


No such thing. If someone can claim them, they aren't yours.

Edit: Fuller answer: If you're soloing 5 mobs at a time then you're doing the same as them except on a smaller scale, therefore you already have no right to complain about them hoarding mobs. You complain that they're taking yellow-named mobs from you and calling you a thief. Technically, since you're both doing the same thing, i.e. killing more than one mob at once, and they were there before you, you are actually the 'thief' in this scenario.

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But seriously on my prior ops farms nobody made a deal about it; as what's 5 mandys out of the whole lot there. The majority of their exp comes from the chests anyway


What's 5 mandies? Let's break it down:

600xp per mandy at cap
5 chances at a blue chest to spawn
~5 min respawn (This is hypothetical, no idea what the real spawn is).

((5*600)+(5*1250))*12 = 111000 XP/Hour in ideal conditions. That's 11 merits, a bunch of low level dings, or a couple of high level dings. I would argue that the XP between chests and mobs, in the long run, is either 50/50 or higher in favour of the mobs giving more.

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and that many mobs in one area were not put there for one person to horde for them selves.


You're contradicting yourself by fighting 5 mobs at once.

Quote:
simular


For God's sake, it's similar. Also it's themselves, not them selves.

Edited, Aug 25th 2012 8:47am by Diamondis
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#3 Aug 25 2012 at 6:40 AM Rating: Good
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mobs in one area were not put there for one person to horde for them selves
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#4 Aug 25 2012 at 7:16 AM Rating: Good
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Can't you just pick off some of their pulled mobs? They can't claim all of the ones they pull any more than you can claim all of the ones you pull.
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#5 Aug 25 2012 at 7:36 AM Rating: Excellent
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Pull Emperador de Aletpa to their camp, CFH and watch as they all die to 10'000 needles spam.
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#6 Aug 25 2012 at 9:47 AM Rating: Excellent
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Nilatai wrote:
Pull Emperador de Aletpa to their camp, CFH and watch as they all die to 10'000 needles spam.


You'll get GM'd for it, but if the person in question was being enough of a **** it might be worth it.
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#7 Aug 25 2012 at 9:53 AM Rating: Decent
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Nilatai wrote:
Pull Emperador de Aletpa to their camp, CFH and watch as they all die to 10'000 needles spam.


I wouldnt do that. Thats more then likely get you sent to jail.
#8 Aug 25 2012 at 10:04 AM Rating: Good
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Terrifyingspeed wrote:
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mobs in one area were not put there for one person to horde for them selves


hoard
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#9 Aug 25 2012 at 11:14 AM Rating: Excellent
When people do this to me I switch to blm and deliberately -ja their mobs once they're down far enough that i can kill in 1 shot. Yes mobs u don't have claim on are technically not your mobs, but you don't go around in a grocery store taking things out of other people's carts do you?

Anyways, the people who do this on Lakshmi are 95% of the time RMT who charge people to sit there afk while they cleave for hours on end. That's even more incentive to steal their mobs. Yes legitimate players probably paid them, but boo hoo. They know it's an RMT doing it and they don't care as long as they can get leveled while they sleep. It's almost the same thing as paying cash for power leveling services.
#10 Aug 25 2012 at 11:19 AM Rating: Default
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Yes mobs u don't have claim on are technically not your mobs, but you don't go around in a grocery store taking things out of other people's carts do you?


I don't know about your stores but where I go shopping it doesn't take groceries 5 minutes to respawn, which is what causes the behaviour in a game setting. You can't apply in-game actions to real life.

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Anyways, the people who do this on Lakshmi are 95% of the time RMT who charge people to sit there afk while they cleave for hours on end. That's even more incentive to steal their mobs. Yes legitimate players probably paid them, but boo hoo. They know it's an RMT doing it and they don't care as long as they can get leveled while they sleep. It's almost the same thing as paying cash for power leveling services.


All of this is just lol-worthy.

Edited, Aug 25th 2012 1:22pm by Diamondis
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#11 Aug 25 2012 at 11:33 AM Rating: Good
Fact is, those points do work. Getting butthurt because I contradicted you is sad at best. Since you seem to care so much, let me elaborate further. Mobs don't take 5 minutes to re-spawn in abyssea. At most, 3 because they're all up again by the time I'm finished destroying chests which have a 180 second time limit. Maybe someone takes items out of your cart at the store and it takes you 2-3 minutes to walk back to where you got it and get another one. I don't claim it to be a perfect example, just an example.

The second part being "lol-worthy" because of what? Is it cool to buy gil on ffxi now? Back in 2007 before I quit for a while it was still heavily frowned upon. Giving RMT that which they sell, is in fact, nearly the same thing as paying them cash to power level your character for you.
#12 Aug 25 2012 at 12:01 PM Rating: Excellent
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I ran into this problem myself once, so I went and changed to BLU and proceeded to Whisker every last pull he made for the next 3 hours. Was hilarious.

Edit: As for all the RMT talk... the fact of the matter is, if there's hard, actionable evidence that the player in question is a RMT, they will be banned. Absent any of that, they are innocent until proven guilty, no matter how sure you may feel due to their names, playtime, or activities in-game. Sitting in Port and yelling about RMT is slander, plain and simple, and really only serves the function of making you look like a jackass who can't help but meddle in the affairs of others.

I spent a few weeks last summer running pay-for-XP alliances for gil to fund my Empyrean90s and my Aegis, and even though I've been an established, fairly well-known player on my server (and semi-active on this and other forums) for many years, I still had to endure a large amount of abuse and accusations. Considering that my service actually netted my clients positive gil (the cruor alone covered the 60k/hr i charged and then some, not counting the TKHs that would drop regularly to everyone in alliance), anger at those people gradually gave way to amusement and disdain.

Moral of the story: if you want to toss accusations of bannable offenses, forward your charges and attendant evidence to a GM. Otherwise, shut the **** up, nobody cares.

Edited, Aug 25th 2012 2:24pm by LyltiaofLakshmi
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#13Diamondis, Posted: Aug 25 2012 at 12:24 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) I really don't care ^^ I'm posting because I'm bored and like to annoy people like you! :D Also, you never contradicted me. I never said it wasn't rude to take mobs you're clearly fighting, which is analogues to taking things from a cart even though they aren't technically your property yet, I simply said if a mob is yellow then it's free to claim. If anything, you agreed with me. The second part was lol-worthy partly because it made you sound like child, mostly because you're OK with ******** over legit players who paid whatever price to get something without any actual proof that ALL of those players in that party are aware of the RMT aspect. Most will be, I agree, but there's always a chance that one or more of them doesn't know. In that case you've just screwed someone for nothing more than some sense of self-righteousness.
#14 Aug 25 2012 at 1:12 PM Rating: Excellent
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I really don't care ^^ I'm posting because I'm bored and like to annoy people like you! :D


You do know that people don't take kindly to just blatantly saying that you're posting to annoy them. You can't expect to post something like that and not get some kind of backlash about it.

Diamondis wrote:
The second part was lol-worthy partly because it made you sound like child, mostly because you're OK with ******** over legit players who paid whatever price to get something without any actual proof that ALL of those players in that party are aware of the RMT aspect. Most will be, I agree, but there's always a chance that one or more of them doesn't know.


As a Lakshmian, I've seen the groups involved that rathalosattack is talking about, and given the prices being charged, the methods involved as far as the transferring of gil, and so on, there's no way that anyone could get into those parties and not be aware that they are RMT. Now while I don't necessarily believe that because they're RMT that instantly gives you free reign to kill their cleave burning mobs and stuff, since I'm indifferent to it in total since it sits on a gray area between "white mobs are free" and "party grieving", the people that do partake in them aren't ignorant to the source of their services as you claim, because it is just that obvious.

Edited, Aug 25th 2012 3:14pm by Vlorsutes
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#15Diamondis, Posted: Aug 25 2012 at 2:42 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Of course I know lol. This is nothing but a thread someone is using to QQ in because they don't like how something is going. The fact is that what RMT are doing in these parties is legit. They're providing a service people want for a cost. What they do after is a violation, sure, but that's not for us to deal with. Paying these people to do what they do in the game, knowing they're RMT or not, is a matter of moral judgement. Paying them for the service in of itself is not breaking any rules and, in my opinion, people who pay these groups are entitled to what they pay for.
#16 Aug 25 2012 at 3:01 PM Rating: Excellent
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I'd be a fan of pulling Emperator to flux 7 and using it to teleport away, then come back and be all like *********** my bad" and take the time to raise people... even though they're afk and won't actually raise up Smiley: sly

But our guy on Siren is kinda cool. He always bazaars a Bugul Noz pop every pull or so if you need it and isn't a **** like in the stories here; if you need a few mobs for skilling up or whatnot he leaves you alone, he just runs a loop for agro only (which is hilarious when one of the leeches is resting).
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#17 Aug 25 2012 at 4:21 PM Rating: Decent
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I'd be a fan of pulling Emperator to flux 7 and using it to teleport away, then come back and be all like "sh*t, my bad" and take the time to raise people... even though they're afk and won't actually raise up


While that excuse might get you off the hook once, it certainly will not work multiple times. You'd still get your *** banned.

For the people advocating ******** up leech parties by running NMs into them or killing off all the monsters before they can pull any, recognize that you are not harming the RMTs through these actions. RMTs (if they are indeed running these parties, and I grant you that this is probably the case for most parties) will always ask for payment before they invite you. As a result you are really only harming the players who paid for a spot in the party.

There is several inherent risk of engaging in the party for gil business; firstly it may be a complete scam, secondly you or the people running the party might D/C and be unable to return or regroup, thirdly you might have your party harassed by self-righteous vigilantes who think they're actually hurting the RMT through their actions, and finally you have no guarantees. The leech party leaders do not care about whether you get x amount of experience or x amount of cruor. They will keep to their "contract" only because they know that they'd never get business again if they do not. However, the "contract" only extends to keeping you in their party for a prescribed amount of time and attempting to kill as many enemies as possible. If they are unable to kill enemies because there are no enemies to kill, then it's too bad so sad.

If you disagree with the concept of the party for gil business, or don't want to risk paying RMTs, then don't join one.
You're disagreement with either groups does not give you the moral right (naturally you have the right to pull all the enemies by the game rules as does anyone else) to punish players who wish to risk their gil to engage in them.



Edited, Aug 25th 2012 6:23pm by Teiei
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#18 Aug 25 2012 at 4:34 PM Rating: Default
The 2 groups that run these on my server seemed to be tied with the LS that helps their members with currency. Getting 100k/hr from someone for 8-9+hours buys a lot of currency.
As to the OP's QQing. If it was a "normal" party/alliance there doing the work and you showed up...what then? You would still not be in the wrong? 5 mobs you have decrease the EXP/hr, even if they do respawn hella fast.
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#19 Aug 25 2012 at 4:51 PM Rating: Decent
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Teiei wrote:
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I'd be a fan of pulling Emperator to flux 7 and using it to teleport away, then come back and be all like "sh*t, my bad" and take the time to raise people... even though they're afk and won't actually raise up


While that excuse might get you off the hook once, it certainly will not work multiple times. You'd still get your *** banned.

Read the whole post next time, and don't quote out of context just so you can soapbox about it.

Our obvious RMT guy on Siren is a decent enough dude to not resort to this. I just thought it was funny you could be apologetic and helpful while still ******** the leeches over, which is why I wasn't totally afk when I hopped in once.
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#20 Aug 25 2012 at 5:52 PM Rating: Good
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Diamondis wrote:
If you're soloing 5 mobs at a time then you're doing the same as them except on a smaller scale, therefore you already have no right to complain about them hoarding mobs.


That is a matter of opinion. I'm not telling anyone else they can't camp in the area or farm the same mobs. I'm not running by or up to other people who are luring a couple mobs back to their camp, do a mass hate swap, then run the other way with what they had grabed themselves. Neither was I picking mandies off of him when I unlocked the camera and saw him cast banishaga on 2 of the 3 mandies (only ones that were up at the time) I was already engaged to with. then ran off with them to train the rest that had respawned. I'm also only there may be one or two hours at best, and based on what I got off the Dominion ops or if besieged is starting. It's not like this game my home from reality.

Quote:
You're contradicting yourself by fighting 5 mobs at once.


So far of all the mobs I've seen, retaliation + defender + aggressor tend to work smoothly with mandragora type mobs. I get wepon/parry/evade/shield skill ups faster on them when theyre easy. Once they get to Decent and Even, I shrink down to 2 or 3 based on how fast my hp is going down and the skill rate stays about the same. Mandragoras are almost perfect to skill defence off of and wepons when they get Dc/Em. When I don't need to re build cruor off the ops, I can stand there still skilling off the same mobs while they are pulling their second or third pack. All without preventing others from what they need or are trying to do.

rathalosattack wrote:
Yes mobs u don't have claim on are technically not your mobs, but you don't go around in a grocery store taking things out of other people's carts do you?


Exactly. Unwritten etiquette. Even though nobody had paid for what's in someone elses cart yet, it doesnt justify taking somthing from someone else just because they got to it first. When they are working on their mobs I look around and grab what I need once they start to respawn. Or I grab less if they're on their way back and only a couple are left un agroed or claimed.
#21 Aug 25 2012 at 9:21 PM Rating: Good
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It really is a shame that there isn't more than one group of mobs in a zone. They should do something about that.

Edited, Aug 25th 2012 9:22pm by zellbaca
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#23 Aug 26 2012 at 2:59 AM Rating: Excellent
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catwho wrote:
Nilatai wrote:
Pull Emperador de Aletpa to their camp, CFH and watch as they all die to 10'000 needles spam.


You'll get GM'd for it, but if the person in question was being enough of a **** it might be worth it.

Actually you'd be surprised. A friend of mine was on the receiving end of this a few days ago. The GM didn't so much as bat an eyelid at the RMT in question who had killed their legitimate FC burn.

Shockingly, some of the are actually legitimate players. At least on Sylph.
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#24 Aug 26 2012 at 7:59 AM Rating: Good
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I'd say your options are:
1. Pull one at a time. Maybe they won't give you a hard time about that. At least they can't "steal your mobs" that way.
2. Treat them the way they treat you. Go to war with them if they're jerks. Respect them if they respect you.
3. Find a new OP to do. Unless things have changed drastically, there are plenty of mob types that cleavers don't kill.
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#25 Aug 26 2012 at 8:27 AM Rating: Excellent
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Camiie wrote:
I'd say your options are:
1. Pull one at a time. Maybe they won't give you a hard time about that. At least they can't "steal your mobs" that way.
2. Treat them the way they treat you. Go to war with them if they're jerks. Respect them if they respect you.
3. Find a new OP to do. Unless things have changed drastically, there are plenty of mob types that cleavers don't kill.


The mandies are generally used because they have the ideal characteristics of a mob: They link, they're crunchy, they're close to a conflux so you can warp to a Dom Ops sergeant, and since they're MNK type if you are skilling up guard or parry, or you have Counter from MNK or Retaliation on WAR, they give you more skillups and/or take additional damage.
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#26 Aug 26 2012 at 9:12 AM Rating: Excellent
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catwho wrote:
Camiie wrote:
I'd say your options are:
1. Pull one at a time. Maybe they won't give you a hard time about that. At least they can't "steal your mobs" that way.
2. Treat them the way they treat you. Go to war with them if they're jerks. Respect them if they respect you.
3. Find a new OP to do. Unless things have changed drastically, there are plenty of mob types that cleavers don't kill.


The mandies are generally used because they have the ideal characteristics of a mob: They link, they're crunchy, they're close to a conflux so you can warp to a Dom Ops sergeant, and since they're MNK type if you are skilling up guard or parry, or you have Counter from MNK or Retaliation on WAR, they give you more skillups and/or take additional damage.


Trust me I understand why people fight them, but as usual with FFXI there's not enough of X to go around. Someone's going to have to bite the bullet and go elsewhere and/or accept less than optimum conditions. SE's never going to un-limit our available resources or do anything more than what they did with Abyssea to try to alleviate conflict between players. They obviously want us getting in each others' way so that our progress is slowed. They're the ones we should really be frustrated with here rather than cleavers, skill-up soloers, or Dynamis BSTs or whoever the villain du jour is. Those other players are just trying to optimize the use of their time, the same as the rest of us. SE is the only one who can fix or adjust things. The best we can do is either try to coexist as much as the game allows us to or go to war with each other over everything.
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#27 Aug 26 2012 at 10:08 AM Rating: Excellent
There are other mandies as well. But I assume the OP wants to do them in said zone/Dom Ops for chance at paper(s) he could use.
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#28 Aug 26 2012 at 12:36 PM Rating: Decent
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The exp difference is massive between Altepa and Attohwa. I didn't even know there WAS a Mandy Op... interesting.

As for the whole "what's right, what's wrong" here... it's nothing but perspective.
I could care less if people paid for a service rendered regardless the money trail. This isn't real life where funding "the enemy" can hurt you in the long run. With how obscenely easy gil is now prices are inflated because of vendoring, not gil buying.
In 2004 when I first joined, prices were -outrageous- (40k/stack of silk, 7mil for Scorp Harness) because gil sellers commanded the economy through botting all the major HNM's and NM's. They had a hefty grip on the supply and could charge insane prices. People were impatient and spent the cash to short-cut farming for days.
Now? Prices are STILL outrageous but their grip on gear is nil and the ability to make the gil is effortless. If people are STILL unwilling to apply effort for gil, who cares? Doesn't hurt me. I'm not sure what the rates are now but I'm sure whatever it is, spending enough to afford the new gear at 10mil a pop is going to hurt too much to be worth it.

As for the cleaving thing? When I Blu Cleave I do not allow stragglers. If someone comes into my area, I will change my route to end by them and make sure they end up with nothing. I do not share.
However, if they are there first? I leave.
Very few camps are shareable.

Just recognize this and things are fine. Sadly, some groups monopolize areas long terms (Apkallu's, Djinns, and Mandies for sure). Either be better and steal the camp, or accept the loss and find a new one.
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#29 Aug 26 2012 at 3:01 PM Rating: Good
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I've bought several nights' worth of alliance spots with the before-mentioned Lakshmi guy. In the last week, I've bought spots 4 or 5 nights, probably resulting in a few million xp. Yeah, he's probably RMT.

Guess what? I'm not ashamed. Why would I be? Frankly, I don't really understand why people are upset about it.
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#30 Aug 26 2012 at 3:59 PM Rating: Good
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The grocery cart analogy is pretty good. Is illegal? Nope, it belongs to the store (just like unclaimed monsters belong to everyone) but that doesn't mean you aren't a jerk for getting something from someone's cart when you can just walk over and get another one from the shelf (fast-respawning monsters)


Great analogy, I think we all have come across this one time or another. To lose your dignity over mobs/merchandise? Unless it's a physical threat, not worth it(of course grab the merchandise right back and smile). It's probably just my age but I just shake my head these days. When people are taking mobs you were working on but yellow do like Vince says in Pulp Fiction and be cool.

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#31 Aug 26 2012 at 4:05 PM Rating: Good
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do like Vince says in Pulp Fiction and be cool.

If you're talking about the diner scene, that's actually Jules who says it.

***** be cool! (link is NSFW)


Edited, Aug 26th 2012 5:07pm by Chewzer
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Chew is being a lot more level-headed regarding the whole issue, which is strange because he's probably drunk.
#32 Aug 26 2012 at 4:44 PM Rating: Excellent
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Thank you, I forgot was going by memory ><; thanks!
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#33 Aug 26 2012 at 4:53 PM Rating: Excellent
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Chewzer wrote:
[quote=Burienstar]do like Vince says in Pulp Fiction and be cool.(link is NSFW)]

You'd be pretty hard pressed to find any good clips from that movie that aren't NSFW links, I think.
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#34 Aug 26 2012 at 5:37 PM Rating: Decent
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They should remake Pulp Fiction with Tarus.
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#35 Aug 26 2012 at 6:21 PM Rating: Decent
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Burienstar wrote:
Zelduh wrote:
The grocery cart analogy is pretty good.

Great analogy

I disagree regarding the analogy. Mobs are more like the shopping carts themselves than the items you put in them. You claim a mob, fight it, and then it eventually gets put back into circulation after you're done with it. Someone who is fighting 5 mobs at once is like someone who has 5 shopping carts with one item in each. If each of those items is big enough to take up an entire shopping cart, it's really not a big deal. But don't put yourself in a situation where each item is small, and then complain if someone else empties one of those carts into another and takes the empty cart.
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#36 Aug 27 2012 at 7:21 AM Rating: Good
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the shopping cart analogy is fine in the start. the mobs are NOT the shopping cart. (they are the cereal box w/ the surprise inside, if you really want to insist on that part of analogy which is not useful in current context)

However, there is another side to the analogy. Taking out of someone's cart is rude, but so is guarding a shelf of a specific product and screaming at anyone who tries to purchase one and fighting over who gets to put it in their cart.

This is the same crap which can happen in dynamis. No one would tolerate a small group pulling ALL of a mob type in dyna either.

I had someone doing the same crap to me in attohwa after last update when I wanted to skill up guard on pup.

I was gathering a small group of mandies, and a pld who was also pulling a group (there were 3 groups total on mandies) was attacking my group. Its not like I was pulling alot either. the pld was.

I did chigoes instead because accomplishing my skill up was more importation than punishing the offender. If I'm bored next time, I might pull my blue mage out though :P.

Edited, Aug 27th 2012 9:26am by Xilk
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#37 Aug 27 2012 at 7:46 AM Rating: Default
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I don't understand your issue.

You're mad because you're being out-pulled? You're fighting four to five mobs and you're angry because someone is killing ten to twelve mobs?
Fight them one at a time, they're not yours if they're not claimed. If it's white it's alright.

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#38 Aug 27 2012 at 9:51 AM Rating: Good
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Chewzer wrote:
I've bought several nights' worth of alliance spots with the before-mentioned Lakshmi guy. In the last week, I've bought spots 4 or 5 nights, probably resulting in a few million xp. Yeah, he's probably RMT.

Guess what? I'm not ashamed. Why would I be? Frankly, I don't really understand why people are upset about it.


Or he's upgrading a Dynamis relic. There was a group on Bismarck that ran FC parties for a few months straight; they had a guy that wanted a relic weapon, and FC parties are the fastest way to churn up 200 million gil for currency. Certainly faster than farming the coins yourself.
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#39 Aug 27 2012 at 10:15 AM Rating: Excellent
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Artemas wrote:
I don't understand your issue.

You're mad because you're being out-pulled? You're fighting four to five mobs and you're angry because someone is killing ten to twelve mobs?
Fight them one at a time, they're not yours if they're not claimed. If it's white it's alright.


I may be showing my old man side, but wtf is wrong with you people? Whatever happened to common courtesy? People just can be polite anymore. The if it's white it's alright assertion doesn't really apply to a Gil selling fc party that monopolizes one mob type that is the best mob for skilling those hard to skilll defensive skill for days at a time.
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#40 Aug 27 2012 at 10:42 AM Rating: Decent
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spcwill wrote:
Artemas wrote:
I don't understand your issue.

You're mad because you're being out-pulled? You're fighting four to five mobs and you're angry because someone is killing ten to twelve mobs?
Fight them one at a time, they're not yours if they're not claimed. If it's white it's alright.


I may be showing my old man side, but wtf is wrong with you people? Whatever happened to common courtesy? People just can be polite anymore. The if it's white it's alright assertion doesn't really apply to a Gil selling fc party that monopolizes one mob type that is the best mob for skilling those hard to skilll defensive skill for days at a time.


Where your artificial strawman fails is that the OP is shooting arrows 3 at a time at deer and is mad that people came in with mortars and rockets to kill a forest full of deer at the same time.

Join a different army or go to a different forest.

Complaining "you stole my deer" is no longer relevant in FFXI unless it drops something good, and you had it under control but for a mistake/programming failure.


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#41 Aug 27 2012 at 11:34 AM Rating: Excellent
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Diamondis wrote:
in my opinion, people who pay these groups are entitled to what they pay for.


They are only "entitled" to whatever the person is paying them can deliver - the rest of the playerbase is under no obligation to help that person deliver those services.

I was recently working on a trial killing frogs in La Theine and there was someone there cleaving - I didn't feel even slightly bad for taking as many frogs as I could. It's not my responsibility to ensure those people paying [someone else] for levels get them.




Edited, Aug 27th 2012 10:46am by Olorinus
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#42 Aug 27 2012 at 12:19 PM Rating: Excellent
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TheBarrister wrote:
spcwill wrote:
Artemas wrote:
I don't understand your issue.

You're mad because you're being out-pulled? You're fighting four to five mobs and you're angry because someone is killing ten to twelve mobs?
Fight them one at a time, they're not yours if they're not claimed. If it's white it's alright.


I may be showing my old man side, but wtf is wrong with you people? Whatever happened to common courtesy? People just can be polite anymore. The if it's white it's alright assertion doesn't really apply to a Gil selling fc party that monopolizes one mob type that is the best mob for skilling those hard to skilll defensive skill for days at a time.


Where your artificial strawman fails is that the OP is shooting arrows 3 at a time at deer and is mad that people came in with mortars and rockets to kill a forest full of deer at the same time.

Join a different army or go to a different forest.

Complaining "you stole my deer" is no longer relevant in FFXI unless it drops something good, and you had it under control but for a mistake/programming failure.

No, the OP isn't mad that people are mortaring dear. He's mad they are specifically targeting the few mobs he pulled off to the side to accomplish his goals then telling him to fvck off.
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#43 Aug 27 2012 at 12:45 PM Rating: Excellent
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Camiie wrote:
I'd say your options are:
1. Pull one at a time. Maybe they won't give you a hard time about that. At least they can't "steal your mobs" that way.
2. Treat them the way they treat you. Go to war with them if they're jerks. Respect them if they respect you.
3. Find a new OP to do. Unless things have changed drastically, there are plenty of mob types that cleavers don't kill.


#2, aka iterated prisoner's dilemma, is my choice.

Btw diamondis, you are drastically overestimating the worth of those 5 extra mandies Killing more than 8 mobs at once = no additional xp, so that 5*600 becomes 5*0. And I forget what the exact distribution of chests with full lights is, but it's probably something more like 5 * 1/3 * 1/5 * 1250. Enjoy your extra 5k/hr.

There's basically no reason a cleave should give a crap about one player taking a handful of the many mobs available. The camp may not support two cleaves at once, but that doesn't mean it's not shareable at all.

TheBarrister wrote:

Where your artificial strawman fails is that the OP is shooting arrows 3 at a time at deer and is mad that people came in with mortars and rockets to kill a forest full of deer at the same time.

Join a different army or go to a different forest.

You forgot the option: Put away arrows; nuke the entire forest instead. BLM is my preferred way to do this. (Lyltia has the right idea.)

Edited, Aug 27th 2012 2:47pm by VxSote
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#44 Aug 27 2012 at 12:52 PM Rating: Default
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spcwill wrote:
Artemas wrote:
I don't understand your issue.

You're mad because you're being out-pulled? You're fighting four to five mobs and you're angry because someone is killing ten to twelve mobs?
Fight them one at a time, they're not yours if they're not claimed. If it's white it's alright.


I may be showing my old man side, but wtf is wrong with you people? Whatever happened to common courtesy? People just can be polite anymore. The if it's white it's alright assertion doesn't really apply to a Gil selling fc party that monopolizes one mob type that is the best mob for skilling those hard to skilll defensive skill for days at a time.


Nothing is wrong with me. I'm very courteous. For example, I always use my blinkers when I'm changing lanes.

Why are you inferring that I'm not courteous? Keeping a mob claimed to your party is a Final Fantasy 11 law, e.g. non-negotiable.
And gil-sellers (if they are that), are still people/players. I'm as courteous to them as I would be for other players, which is a static courtesy, improved or worsened by any dealings I may have with you.

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#45 Aug 27 2012 at 1:23 PM Rating: Excellent
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Artemas wrote:
spcwill wrote:
Artemas wrote:
I don't understand your issue.

You're mad because you're being out-pulled? You're fighting four to five mobs and you're angry because someone is killing ten to twelve mobs?
Fight them one at a time, they're not yours if they're not claimed. If it's white it's alright.


I may be showing my old man side, but wtf is wrong with you people? Whatever happened to common courtesy? People just can be polite anymore. The if it's white it's alright assertion doesn't really apply to a Gil selling fc party that monopolizes one mob type that is the best mob for skilling those hard to skilll defensive skill for days at a time.


Nothing is wrong with me. I'm very courteous. For example, I always use my blinkers when I'm changing lanes.

Why are you inferring that I'm not courteous? Keeping a mob claimed to your party is a Final Fantasy 11 law, e.g. non-negotiable.
And gil-sellers (if they are that), are still people/players. I'm as courteous to them as I would be for other players, which is a static courtesy, improved or worsened by any dealings I may have with you.


Courteous is not a word I would use to describe the first post of yours that I quoted. Read the OP again and read your post again. Do you honestly think he was upset he was being out pulled? He specifically said he could only handle 4-5, and then says as their lvls increase, he can handle 2-3 so it's obvious that numbers wasn't the issue. He said what bothers him is the puller aoe'ing the few mobs he has off to the side. I don't care where you're from, how old you are or any of that...that's a **** move. Telling the guy "if it's white it's alright" in this case is inferring that in your views, that's ok with you. If that's the case, then something is wrong with your ability to apply polite and courteous behavior to a situation.
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#46 Aug 27 2012 at 1:56 PM Rating: Good
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VxSote wrote:
Camiie wrote:
I'd say your options are:
1. Pull one at a time. Maybe they won't give you a hard time about that. At least they can't "steal your mobs" that way.
2. Treat them the way they treat you. Go to war with them if they're jerks. Respect them if they respect you.
3. Find a new OP to do. Unless things have changed drastically, there are plenty of mob types that cleavers don't kill.

#2, aka iterated prisoner's dilemma, is my choice.

The other group can claim that they're following #2 as well. They were there first. Someone crashed their camp. They've been disrespected, so they'll disrespect back.

How does this escalation end? Someone involved makes a thread on a message board about it.
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#47 Aug 27 2012 at 2:18 PM Rating: Excellent
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I would recommend that if you are AoE killing stuff, to choose a camp that will not be contended.

There is no justification that 1 group should monopolize a mob type. There is no in-built, game solution to multiple groups competing for multiple mobs, except game mechanics which allow claim on 1 mob at a time by 1 player.

existing methods are:
Harass each other until one leaves or calls a GM
leave and go to another camp
tolerate slower kill/skill-up rates


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#48 Aug 27 2012 at 5:16 PM Rating: Decent
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spcwill wrote:



Courteous is not a word I would use to describe the first post of yours that I quoted. Read the OP again and read your post again. Do you honestly think he was upset he was being out pulled? He specifically said he could only handle 4-5, and then says as their lvls increase, he can handle 2-3 so it's obvious that numbers wasn't the issue. He said what bothers him is the puller aoe'ing the few mobs he has off to the side. I don't care where you're from, how old you are or any of that...that's a **** move. Telling the guy "if it's white it's alright" in this case is inferring that in your views, that's ok with you. If that's the case, then something is wrong with your ability to apply polite and courteous behavior to a situation.




I'm 100000% ok with someone taking any mob I have if it's white. I should have kept it claimed. Don't pull more than one mob and get **** hurt if someone kills it. That's asking for injury.

And mostly my question was rhetoric because I'm rather contemptuous of him raging out about his situation. So easily preventable.



Edited, Aug 27th 2012 7:17pm by Artemas
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#49 Aug 27 2012 at 5:31 PM Rating: Good
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Something cracks me up about the type of people that assume every Fell Cleave party is run by RMT. Seems like almost every anti-Fell-Cleave post we get here boils down to that.
#50 Aug 27 2012 at 6:16 PM Rating: Default
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spcwill wrote:
TheBarrister wrote:
spcwill wrote:
Artemas wrote:
I don't understand your issue.

You're mad because you're being out-pulled? You're fighting four to five mobs and you're angry because someone is killing ten to twelve mobs?
Fight them one at a time, they're not yours if they're not claimed. If it's white it's alright.


I may be showing my old man side, but wtf is wrong with you people? Whatever happened to common courtesy? People just can be polite anymore. The if it's white it's alright assertion doesn't really apply to a Gil selling fc party that monopolizes one mob type that is the best mob for skilling those hard to skilll defensive skill for days at a time.


Where your artificial strawman fails is that the OP is shooting arrows 3 at a time at deer and is mad that people came in with mortars and rockets to kill a forest full of deer at the same time.

Join a different army or go to a different forest.

Complaining "you stole my deer" is no longer relevant in FFXI unless it drops something good, and you had it under control but for a mistake/programming failure.

No, the OP isn't mad that people are mortaring dear. He's mad they are specifically targeting the few mobs he pulled off to the side to accomplish his goals then telling him to fvck off.


TheBarrister wrote:

Join a different army or go to a different forest.



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#51 Aug 27 2012 at 8:53 PM Rating: Good
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svlyons wrote:
VxSote wrote:
Camiie wrote:
I'd say your options are:
1. Pull one at a time. Maybe they won't give you a hard time about that. At least they can't "steal your mobs" that way.
2. Treat them the way they treat you. Go to war with them if they're jerks. Respect them if they respect you.
3. Find a new OP to do. Unless things have changed drastically, there are plenty of mob types that cleavers don't kill.

#2, aka iterated prisoner's dilemma, is my choice.

The other group can claim that they're following #2 as well. They were there first. Someone crashed their camp. They've been disrespected, so they'll disrespect back.

How does this escalation end? Someone involved makes a thread on a message board about it.



wikipedia (attributed to Robert Axelrod) wrote:
Successful strategies must also be forgiving. Though players will retaliate, they will once again fall back to cooperating if the opponent does not continue to defect. This stops long runs of revenge and counter-revenge, maximizing points.

Link here.

Edit: guess I can't embed a URL in a quote tag like I intended.

Edited, Aug 27th 2012 10:55pm by VxSote
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