1
Forum Settings
       
« Previous 1 2 3
Reply To Thread

Matsui Responses Compilation threadFollow

#1 Dec 18 2012 at 2:50 PM Rating: Excellent
Sage
Avatar
****
5,245 posts
Akihiko Matsui wrote:

I spoke to the Salvage lead about the plans for future adjustments.

As a result of our discussion, since we have implemented the higher-tier Salvage expansion, we decided to increase the drop rates on equipment that could be obtained in the previous salvage areas.

Also, in addition to the above adjustment, we will be making changes to the Bhaflau Remnants so that equipment will not drop only from the NMs that Reactionary Ramparts spawn, but the regular monsters it spawns as well.

Due to the fact that increasing the NM spawn rate would affect the yield of Alexandrite, we will be keeping cotton purses and higher equipment drops rates as special bonuses for defeating the NM, but will be implementing these changes with the objective of increasing the chances to obtain equipment.


http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/29259-Is-anyone-particularly-happy-with-the-new-gear-from-New-Salvage?p=387621#post387621

Edited, Dec 19th 2012 6:15pm by Szabo
#2 Dec 19 2012 at 5:17 PM Rating: Excellent
Sage
Avatar
****
5,245 posts
Rather than make individual topics for every response Matsui makes, I'll use this thread to compile his responses.

Akihiko Matsui wrote:

Hello, Matsui here.

Thank you for all of your posts.

I have spoken with the lead developers for Meeble Burrows and received some comments I would like to share with you.

Quote:

With the most recent version update, users now receive more research marks based on having more users as part of their group. I believe that presenting larger groups with bonuses and increased item counts and records is a good adjustment, but increasing research marks is going too far. I think that research marks are essentially being given out for free.


By increasing the amount of research marks being given to larger groups, our goal is to encourage users to cooperate with others. The following are comments from a couple of users that capture the ideas we had envisioned for this content:

Quote:

Let’s gather 6 players regardless of job, come up with a plan and have some fun!

Quote:

I usually go with a group of 4, but since we would get more points if we had 6, I want to find 2 more players.


There are more detailed explanations behind this adjustment, but the above two comments capture our reasoning well. We feel that this content has a good flow to it now, so we will be leaving it as is for the time being.

Quote:

Since I usually play in a group of 3, I didn’t get a strong sense that we are getting a lot more research marks after the recent version update. However, I did get very excited looking at the trading list for wizened worms. I understand that this is simply a bonus element, but I would really like to see Powder Boots on that list. More than that, I would be extremely happy to see Dervish Sword on that list. (In actuality, I only got fish bones both times. lol)

This leads me to my question: are the probabilities for this content the same for all users? For example, as a WHM I earned 21 worms, but a WAR was able to earn 43 worms and 6 morions in the same program. Will the WAR have a better chance because of the higher number of worms, or will the probabilities be the same? Maybe I shouldn’t focus so much on bonus content, but I would really like to know.


The probabilities are all random.

We did think about rewarding users based on their results, but we decided to make the probabilities all the same so that users can enjoy this content without worrying about which job they are playing with.

As you said, this is bonus content after all.

Quote:

This may be a bit off topic, but I would like to know if the areas for the additional programs will also be Everbloom Hollow, Ruhotz Silvermines, and Ghoyu’s Reverie. I feel that users would get bored if the same areas are used all the time. Even though Abyssea was also a “copy and paste” map, it had a sense of freedom, because it was a field. The Meeble areas are all caves, so they feel very closed.


Since the name of the content is Meeble Burrows (a burrow is a hole or tunnel dug by a small animal) it would feel strange if the map was open and free.

To answer your question, we will most likely use the new areas added in the Seekers of Adoulin. We will put some thought into this, though.

Quote:

I feel like objective 3 should be more difficult, but do many people disagree?


Our goal was to set the difficulty of objective 3 so that a party of six players would be able to complete it regardless of their jobs, as long as they use all of the support enhancements.

There was talk of a hard mode at the time of development, so we would like to look into this idea as well as related items when the time is right.


http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/29296-Meeble-Burrows-Update!?p=387960#post387960

Akihiko Matsui wrote:


Walk of Echoes Weapon Adjustments

Hello,

Since the implementation of the bonus walks to Walk of Echoes is taking longer than anticipated, I spoke to the lead developer in regards to making weapons that call for items from Walk of Echoes easier to create.

We have 2 main ideas we are looking at.

- Remove the EX attribute from the coins

- Add pouches that allow users to pull out multiple Devious Die and Liminal Residues


Although this may make this content too easy, we are looking into adjusting the difficulty of creating these weapons so that it is easier than finishing Empyrean weapons.


http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/29402-Walk-of-Echoes-Weapon-Adjustments?p=387961#post387961
#3 Dec 19 2012 at 6:10 PM Rating: Excellent
Avatar
****
9,047 posts
Oh god yes. It is about time that WoE weapons, which are inferior to empy weapons, get an adjustment. The coins aren't too bad at all as rare/ex imo, it isn't too hard to farm them. It's the frigging dice etc. They don't drop enough given how you -NEED- a big group to do the fluxes that drop them regularly... and given how no one does said fluxes almost ever.

It's also a dog's breakfast to get people going on it.

____________________________
lolgaxe wrote:
When it comes to sitting around not doing anything for long periods of time, only being active for short windows, and marginal changes and sidegrades I'd say FFXI players were the perfect choice for politicians.

clicky
#4 Dec 19 2012 at 6:42 PM Rating: Excellent
Guru
Avatar
*****
10,399 posts
Would still like to see a way to permanently learn a prestige weapon's WS a la Mythics, with the primary weapons offering the Aftermath aspect, but that might just be me hating content restrictions in general. :|a

Anyway, he'd also mentioned possibly looking into the macro system in regards to more lines or at least mass equipment swaps. I'd hope that goes somewhere, even if it may lead to the inevitable PS2 nixing.
#5 Dec 19 2012 at 6:42 PM Rating: Excellent
Sage
***
3,631 posts
Indeed do many things come to pass, that the game has a voice so prolific that posting his replies on individual matters is no longer an efficient method of organization.
____________________________
http://ereblog.livejournal.com/
Erecia and Ereblog are BACK, baby!
#6 Jan 02 2013 at 5:10 PM Rating: Excellent
Sage
Avatar
****
5,245 posts
Akihiko Matsui wrote:

Hello,

Thank you for all of the feedback since the version update regarding Legion, Neo-Nyzul, the Salvage expansion, and Meeble Burrows.

Regarding the 600 skill cap mentioned in the explanation for the adjustments to Perfect Defense

I’d like to apologize that this was conveyed as if it was going to be immediately possible to reach 600 and it also was received like the development team did not understand the current situation. Also, I apologize that this was not followed-up on sooner.

I believe that in future posts there will be cases that we give similar explanations, and we would appreciate it greatly if you could take these to mean that “while it is currently not possible to do this, there is a possibility for growth in the future.”

It’s extremely difficult to have everyone come to the same understanding on the first try no matter how we convey or write it, so we would like to respond to this kind of posts in a shorter time frame by rephrasing the content or through other techniques in order to improve communication.

Embrava stats

I’ve been hearing that the reason for changing the regain effect to refresh was to turn it into a spell that would give a beneficial effect to not only the frontline jobs, but to backline jobs as well.

I’ve been looking over all of the adjustment suggestions that you all have submitted and discussed it with the job lead as well as the content leads, but this is something that needs to be done at this specific time, so we will be proceeding with the original adjustment plan.

Content adjustment

While I won’t be getting into the specifics about which aspects and such, I have been speaking the development team members about adjustments and re-adjustments for Neo-Nyzul, Legion, Odin, and Voidwatch (up to Provenance watcher) based on the adjustments to Perfect Defense and Embrava.
(Based on the above adjustments, if adjustments to the Salvage expansion are necessary we will look into that as well.)

However, in regards to Arch Dynamis Lord, since this is a monster that drops materials for upgrading relics, we plan on maintaining the current conditions.

Additionally, for Meeble Burrows, with the version update that is scheduled for the beginning of the year, the effect of Embrava will be made to reflect the adjustments similar to the Salvage expansion when we implement the new expeditions.


We will be working hard on development so that Seekers of Adoulin is enjoyable and also to reflect the need and importance of the above adjustments. Thank you very much.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/28932-Interim-Report-%E2%80%93-Sorry-to-keep-you-all-waiting!?p=390837#post390837

Akihiko Matsui wrote:

Thanks for all the feedback.

The adjustment to the difficulty of obtaining coins and other items was meant to slightly reduce the difficulty of obtaining Walk of Echoes weapons. (I have mentioned this in my previous post, so if you already know this, please just ignore it.)

We’ve also been taking to heart the opinions from those of you mentioning that it’s too late and there is no meaning to perform these adjustments now. On the other hand, I understand that there are those of you who feel that even though it’s late it is a welcome change.

Also, more specifically, there are those of you who mentioned that Devious Dice and Liminal Residue were fine and suggested methods for not removing the EX status on coins. Development schedule wise we still have time to select the options for addressing this, so please let us know your feedback.

There have also been a few players mentioning that they would like the Walk of Echoes weapons to be made stronger. Since these weapons were meant to be easier to obtain and weaker than Empyrean weapons, instead of increasing the stats we will be lowering the cost associated with them. (This doesn’t mean that we won’t ever be revamping the stats on them though.)

Additionally, we understand the feedback asking to adjust Walk of Echoes to make it fun. However, this involves recreating various systems and requires time and man-power. I will look into adjustments and changes to the Walk of Echoes content separately with the team to make it more enjoyable.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/29402-Walk-of-Echoes-Weapon-Adjustments?p=390842#post390842

Edited, Jan 2nd 2013 6:23pm by Szabo
#7 Jan 08 2013 at 1:50 PM Rating: Excellent
Sage
Avatar
****
5,245 posts
New Year's Greetings

Akihiko Matsui wrote:

Happy New Year.

Last year I focused on gathering and listening to your opinions. This year, in addition to that, I would like to place more of an emphasis on keeping you informed about the vision of FFXI.

I'm sorry that this is somewhat abstract, but first, I'll be putting all of my energy into raising the satisfaction levels of all you adventuring in Vana'diel. Then I would like to adjust the difficulty of content and each their targets as well as modify features so that past adventurers can return to FFXI.

This year marks the release of Seekers of Adoulin and although I took a somewhat long winter break, I will be working at full speed toward its release at the end of March.

I'm looking forward to a good year with you all.

*Sorry that my New Year's greeting was late. I'll start posting a lot more from tomorrow onward.


Mizuki Ito wrote:

Happy New Year.

Last year I spent a lot of time on Adoulin-related development and a full year has come to an end. We're currently in the midst of the final stretch finalizing Seekers of Adoulin.

The development team has a mountain of work this year as well, but as opposed to 2012 where the manpower wasn't being divided, this year we're working with Matsui to build a structure that allows us to better meet the feedback seen on the forums.

Everyone is working passionately on Seekers of Adoulin, so please look forward to a great year of FFXI.


Yoji Fujito wrote:

Happy New Year!

Since the middle of 2012, I started popping up a bit more around the forums. Thinking back, I think I might have been a bit too much of a tongue-in-the-cheek kind of character, but I hope you're all enjoying it.

In preparation for the release of Seekers of Adoulin, the entire development team is working extremely hard and even I, who is normally calm and composed, am running around as busy as a bee. For real!

This year we'll be developing new content and stories centered around Seekers of Adoulin, but we'll also be putting in all of our energy to tackle some of the outstanding issues as well. (Such as the PS2 blackout issue, as well as fishing and synergy revamps.)

We appreciate your continued patronage of FFXI this year as well!

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/29659-End-of-the-Year-New-Year-Greeting/page2


Edited, Jan 8th 2013 7:31pm by Szabo
#8 Jan 08 2013 at 6:23 PM Rating: Excellent
Avatar
****
9,047 posts
Szabo wrote:
Akihiko Matsui wrote:

Additionally, we understand the feedback asking to adjust Walk of Echoes to make it fun. However, this involves recreating various systems and requires time and man-power. I will look into adjustments and changes to the Walk of Echoes content separately with the team to make it more enjoyable.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/29402-Walk-of-Echoes-Weapon-Adjustments?p=390842#post390842

Edited, Jan 2nd 2013 6:23pm by Szabo


Love this. Make it...fun? We are very sorry. That would involve fixing it. Hinestly making the coins tradable would probably pique at least a bit of interest (one more thing to sell)... But really they need to adjust the lower tiers so they can be cleared with fewer players. In my experience, once you actually get people in there clearing tiers a couple hours later people start snowballing in.

The hard part is getting the first 10 or so people so you can do timely clears without too much trouble. That or they need to adjust difficulty across the board and only allow 18 people in a flux at a time. It's not feasible to get the 25+ people you need to reliably clear the final fluxes, which, as people tell me when I try to organize runs of lower fluxes, people only want to join a shout for flux 15 (despite the fact that lots of the lower tiers have items worth 2-4 million gil, and can be cleared in half the time, and if you do those lower fluxes a few times eventually people start showing up and you can do the higher fluxes)

Edited, Jan 8th 2013 4:29pm by Olorinus
____________________________
lolgaxe wrote:
When it comes to sitting around not doing anything for long periods of time, only being active for short windows, and marginal changes and sidegrades I'd say FFXI players were the perfect choice for politicians.

clicky
#9 Jan 09 2013 at 1:23 PM Rating: Excellent
Sage
Avatar
****
5,245 posts
Akihiko Matsui wrote:

Quote:

Happy New Year!

I'm really happy that you are placing such an emphasis on increasing the satisfaction levels for current adventurers as well as looking to bring adventurers back.

However, I feel a bit uneasy that there was no mention of acquiring new players. Even though it's a 10 year old game, XI is still awesome and I’d love to see new adventurers coming in.


Sorry to worry you, but we're not giving up on acquiring new players.

From a task perspective, focusing on new players and adjusting low-level content is easier.

However, focusing on that would mean that adventurers playing now would have to wait quite a while to then address their needs. So we'd like to add and adjust high level elements. (This is the general principle, though there exceptions on an individual basis.)

Our main goal is to make FFXI fun for everyone currently playing, so that you can tell your friends who haven't played yet, or those that used to play, to join and play with you and that the game is much more fun now that it was before.

I believe that at this current point in time, this is the most important aspect for new player acquisition.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/29659-End-of-the-Year-New-Year-Greeting?p=392195#post392195
#10 Jan 09 2013 at 6:09 PM Rating: Good
Scholar
Avatar
****
6,222 posts
Don't build a kiddie pool, teach them to swim in the big pool.
____________________________
I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Airships on fire off the shoulder of Bahamut. I watched Scapula Beams glitter in the dark near the Three Mage Gate...

Nilatai wrote:
Vlorsutes wrote:
There's always...not trolling him?

You're new here, aren't you?
#11 Jan 11 2013 at 4:09 PM Rating: Excellent
Sage
Avatar
****
5,245 posts
Akihiko Matsui wrote:


Overall Battle System Adjustments for the Future

Hello.

Thank you for the vast amount of feedback regarding battle.

We’ve received a variety of different adjustment suggestions and amongst them a suggestion for enfeebling. However, instead of thinking about this in terms of individual points, I’ve been reading over everything from the viewpoint of battle overall.

Towards the end of last year I made a series of posts about the plans we have; however, this raised the issue of requests for more specific, concrete details, which in turn made it difficult for all of you to hold discussions. With that said, from an overall battle system perspective, I would like to share a couple of ideas the development team is currently thinking about.

Please note that all of these ideas have not been finalized. Also, please know that the below is not the entirety of the overall battle adjustments.
We’d appreciate it greatly if you took the content listed here to not represent the cure-all solution, and see it more as things we will be doing while working to solve the issues.

Balance between two-handed and single-handed weapons

This is a topic that has been discussed in several threads, particularly one about making adjustments to single-handed weapons, and we would like to perform adjustments.

As has been mentioned, food and other choices are quite limited due to the fact that status modifiers are far greater for two-handed weapons and there is a higher need for accuracy when using single-handed weapons.

For example, we are currently looking into the possibility of adding some form of merit that would enhance the modifiers for the single-handed weapon main weapon slot.

Regarding Dark Knight

This is a topic that has been discussed in several threads, particularly one about dark knight being too powerful. As was commented during VanaFest, we feel dark knight is becoming powerful, and at the same time decided to put off the adjustments we had looked into at that time. I believe there are many who remember this.
We are currently looking to adjust Desperate Blows and Last Resort.

Currently, the haste cap for equipment and magic is the same for all jobs, but haste from abilities is a separate category outside of this cap, and Desperate Blows is the ability with the highest value of haste.

However, simply reducing the value of Desperate Blows would only cause dark knight to become weaker, so we are considering giving a portion of the total haste effect granted from Desperate Blows to Last Resort, and giving the remaining amount back to Desperate Blows.

Current

Desperate Blows +25%


Post-adjustment

Desperate Blows +10% (*Value with 5 merit points)
Last Resort +15%

Simply put, this adjustment will allow you to gain this effect in the case you use dark knight as your support job.

While currently, it might be difficult to imagine the situations where a front-line job would select dark knight for their support job, we would like to look into this based on this possibility.

Regarding Defense

This is a topic that we have received feedback on asking to increase the boons of defense. Due to the attack/defense ratio, the meaning behind adding defense past a certain value starts to become pointless, and we would like to make it have meaning.

As a merit, for example, the more you increase your defense, the lower the damage taken will be and the boons for Defender would become large.
On the other hand, while under the effects of abilities that decrease defense such as Berserk or Last Resort, the damage you take would become higher than what it is currently.

Merit Point Weapon Skills

This is a topic we have seen in threads asking to increase the cap on the merit point weapon skill category.
Instead of adjusting the cap value, we are currently looking into adjusting the modifier values so that these weapon skills can be used with a single merit point.

We are envisioning to make it so 1 merit point will yield a 65% status modifier, and each point afterwards will grant an addition 5% for a maximum of 85% (no changes to the max value).

Elemental Magic

We have received a variety of feedback on elemental magic.
The first thing I’m thinking of doing is making adjustments to the damage calculations.

Here’s my current image of how elemental magic is going to work:
The damage output on earth element spells will initially be lower compared to the rest of the elements, but have the best cost performance overall. Also, INT will have an even larger impact on the damage output. As a result, players will basically try to raise their INT and magic attack to get closer to the damage output done by lightning element spells.

Breakdown by element

MP Efficiency: Earth > Water > Wind > Fire > Ice > Lightning
INT Offset: Earth > Water > Wind > Fire > Ice > Lightning
Initial Damage Output: Lightning > Ice > Fire > Wind > Water > Earth
Maximum Damage Output: Lightning > Ice > Fire > Wind > Water > Earth

Breakdown by spell tier

MP Efficiency: I > II > III > IV > V
INT Offset: V > IV > III > II > I
Initial Damage Output: V > IV > III > II > I
Maximum Damage Output: V > IV > III > II > I

The charts below explain my idea in detail.
* The magic attack does not include any offsets.
* “INT+0” and “INT+100” represents the INT difference between the caster and the target.


 
Tier I 	    INT+0	    INT+100 
	Before	After	Before	After 
Stone	10	10	42	160 
Water	16	25	66	165 
Aero	25	40	92	170 
Fire	35	55	108	175 
Ice	46	70	126	180 
Lightning 60	85	149	185 
 
 
 
Tier II    INT+0	    INT+100 
	Before	After	Before	After 
Stone	78	100	175	350 
Water	95	120	195	355 
Aero	113	140	213	360 
Fire	133	160	233	365 
Ice	155	180	255	370 
Lightning 178	200	278	375 
 
 
 
Tier III    INT+0	    INT+100 
	Before	After	Before	After 
Stone	210	200	360	550 
Water	236	230	386	560 
Aero	265	260	415	570 
Fire	295	290	445	580 
Ice	320	320	470	590 
Lightning 345	350	495	600 
 
 
 
Tier IV   INT+0	    INT+100 
	Before	After	Before	After 
Stone	381	400	581	850 
Water	410	440	610	865 
Aero	440	480	640	880 
Fire	472	520	672	895 
Ice	506	560	706	910 
Lightning 541	600	741	925 
 
 
 
Tier V 	     INT+0	    INT+100 
	Before	After	Before	After 
Stone	626	650	855	1200 
Water	680	700	909	1220 
Aero	734	750	967	1240 
Fire	785	800	1014	1260 
Ice	829	850	1058	1280 
Lightning 874	900	1103	1300


As far as casting time and recast time goes, here’s my current idea:

- Tier I~V spells will all have same casting time / recast time.
For example, Tier I spells will have a casting time of 0.5 seconds and recast time of 2 seconds. Therefore, both Thunder I and Stone I will have the casting time of 0.5 seconds and recast time of 2 seconds.

The charts below explain my idea in detail.


 
Tier I 	     MP Cost	    Cast Time	  Recast Time 
	Before	After	Before	After	Before	After 
Stone	9	4	1.5	0.5	6.5	2 
Water	13	10	1.75	0.5	7.75	2 
Aero	18	16	2	0.5	9	2 
Fire	24	22	2.25	0.5	10.25	2 
Ice	30	28	2.5	0.5	11.5	2 
Lightning 37	34	3	0.5	13	2 
 
 
 
Tier II    MP Cost	    Cast Time	  Recast Time 
	Before	After	Before	After	Before	After 
Stone	43	36	3.25	1.5	14.5	6 
Water	51	43	3.5	1.5	15.75	6 
Aero	59	51	3.75	1.5	17	6 
Fire	68	60	4.25	1.5	18.5	6 
Ice	77	68	4.5	1.5	19.75	6 
Lightning 86	77	4.75	1.5	21	6 
 
 
 
Tier III    MP Cost	    Cast Time	  Recast Time 
	Before	After	Before	After	Before	After 
Stone	92	64	5.25	3	22.5	15 
Water	98	75	5.5	3	24	15 
Aero	106	88	5.75	3	25.25	15 
Fire	113	101	6	3	26.5	15 
Ice    120	115	6.25	3	27.75	15 
Lightning 128	129	6.75	3	29.25	15 
 
 
 
Tier IV    MP Cost	    Cast Time	  Recast Time 
	Before	After	Before	After	Before	After 
Stone	138	112	7	6	30.75	30 
Water	144	129	7.25	6	32	30 
Aero	150	148	7.5	6	33.25	30 
Fire	157	169	8	6	34.75	30 
Ice	164	190	8.25	6	36	30 
Lightning 171	213	8.5	6	37.25	30 
 
 
   
Tier V 	     MP Cost	    Cast Time	  Recast Time 
	Before	After	Before	After	Before	After 
Stone	222	156	8.75	10	39	45 
Water	239	182	9.25	10	40.25	45 
Aero	255	210	9.5	10	41.5	45 
Fire	270	240	9.75	10	42.75	45 
Ice   282	272	10	10	44	45 
Lightning 294	306	10.25	10	45.5	45



Please note that we will be making additional adjustments on elemental magic using this change as the foundation.

Regarding Content

To start off, we are looking into adjustments for new Nyzul, Legion, Odin's Chamber II, Voidwatch (up to Provenance Watcher), Salvage, and in the event there is further necessity, new Salvage as well.

Below is what we are looking into for adjustments.

New Nyzul

Adjustments to the warp range of floors

Legion

- Adjustments to monster levels
- Adjustments to attack power and defense

Odin's Chamber II

Adjustments to monster levels

Voidwatch

Expand the usage range of the void clusters to Provenance (Provenance Watcher)

Salvage

- Re-examine the drop rate of level 35 equipment
- Make a change so that monsters other than the NMs that spawn from ramparts in Bhaflau Remnants drop the same equipment

Walk of Echoes

- Adjustments to monster levels
- Remove EX status from each type of coin
- Add sacks that contain multiple Devious Dice and Liminal Residue


Past this, we will continue to make adjustments as necessary, and we will be making it so strategy and play style variations can be developed instead of having to win with a huge amount of fire power in a short amount of time.

While I am repeating myself, the above are by no means finalized. There are many other topics we are looking into at the moment (enmity, TP given to enemies, etc.), so I would appreciate it if you could read over all of this on the basis that there is a possibility that the implementation order and adjustment method changes.

Thank you very much.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/29831-Future-Overall-Battle-System-Adjustments


Edited, Jan 11th 2013 8:19pm by Szabo
#12 Jan 11 2013 at 4:23 PM Rating: Excellent
Avatar
****
9,047 posts
Some interesting stuff there. Thumbs up to the walk of echoes adjustments. I'd love to actually make a couple fake empys someday.
____________________________
lolgaxe wrote:
When it comes to sitting around not doing anything for long periods of time, only being active for short windows, and marginal changes and sidegrades I'd say FFXI players were the perfect choice for politicians.

clicky
#13 Jan 11 2013 at 5:32 PM Rating: Excellent
**
569 posts
I still don't under stand the resistance to upping the amount of WSs we can merit. It's a time sink that the players are asking for and when you get down to it only a couple are must haves for their jobs and the rest can be skipped with little lost. Least everything else seems interesting and well thought out.
____________________________
.
#14 Jan 11 2013 at 5:41 PM Rating: Excellent
Guru
Avatar
*****
10,399 posts
I'd take it over them changing nothing, at least. Losing 5% on one job/WS could mean gaining 65% on another to make it more useful.

Nuke changes feel like something I'd have to play with before I could really judge. Might make Occult Accumen not so much lulzy.
#15 Jan 11 2013 at 6:40 PM Rating: Excellent
***
2,873 posts
Seriha wrote:
I'd take it over them changing nothing, at least. Losing 5% on one job/WS could mean gaining 65% on another to make it more useful.

Nuke changes feel like something I'd have to play with before I could really judge. Might make Occult Accumen not so much lulzy.


I agree, being capped at 3 WS's fully merited is not the way to go. As it stands 1/5 upgrades under the new system would be 4/5 now and even 4/5 is pretty good for the most part. This gives a lot more flexibility as now you can 5/5 two weaponskills and still have enough to open up 5 more at the current 4/5th's strength.

Also, the new magic tiers are going to be interesting. I did some quick math and it looks like the M value for each tier has a starting value with Earth elements having the strongest M value and the value decreases as you go through the elements. For instance, Tier V Earth starts at 5.5 M and each spell down the list decreases the M value by 0.3 until you get to Thunder which has 4.0. This is going to possibly change our gear options of INT vs MAB in the future.

Addition: It looks like the old eyeball rule of 2 INT = 1 MAB might be flipped after this adjustment to where 1 INT = 2 MAB.

Edited, Jan 11th 2013 5:15pm by ImmortalAlchemist
____________________________


Return1 argued with Mellowy and wrote:

Seriously, you won't be @#%^ing happy until SE releases a full sized Bahamut avatar you can @#%^ing ride and use to kill players that annoy you, one shot AV/PW/Shinryuu, and burn the FFXI nations to the @#%^ing ground for fun. All while actually restoring mp used instead of costing any.

#16 Jan 11 2013 at 10:05 PM Rating: Excellent
Avatar
***
1,029 posts
Why do they insist on fixing defense and 1-handed calculations through merits?
____________________________
Level 75 Scruffy/37 Nerfherder

"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world, the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man."

- George Bernard Shaw
#17 Jan 11 2013 at 11:05 PM Rating: Decent
Avatar
****
7,426 posts
Holy RDM nuking buff....

Fast Cast T4's for 1K base damage roughly....SCH too.

BLM gets some nice stuff but that increase @ T5 kinda hurts BLM, SCH might just be the best nuker now...

Interesting changes to other stuff too. /DRK would be neat. LR is pretty decent and with 15% JA haste on it as well seems nice. The change to defense seems interesting. But really turtling isn't really viable in this game due to timers, but boosting Defender, and Cocoon is kind of nice.

Edited, Jan 12th 2013 12:13am by rdmcandie
____________________________
HEY GOOGLE. @#%^ OFF YOU. @#%^ YOUR BULLsh*t SEARCH ENGINE IN ITS @#%^ING sh*tTY BINARY ASS. ALL DAY LONG.

#18 Jan 13 2013 at 7:17 PM Rating: Decent
**
575 posts
Unless I am missing something, those nuke adjustments are pretty lame.

Stone V now costs less than Thunder/Blizzard/Fire IV despite having a higher base damage and, thanks to their weird INT scaling idea, better scaling.

The tier 1-2 spell adjustments are cool for low levels, but I doubt they'll be enough to make people start spamming low tier magic.

I guess the tier III changes are OK. The tier IV and V changes are pretty senseless.

This is like fixing the fact that no one uses Scythes by making Resolution a two hit skill and adding a four hit 'Scythe Resolution'. Sure, the underused weapon is now a logical choice but it doesn't actually change the playstyle of the job and the net result is just a nerf. It's like New Coke, you get a new flavor but lose the old one that most everyone was happy with.

Edited, Jan 13th 2013 8:23pm by ItsAMyri
#19 Jan 13 2013 at 7:21 PM Rating: Default
Scholar
*****
11,181 posts
SunriderRagnarok wrote:
Why do they insist on fixing defense and 1-handed calculations through merits?


Because everything is generally "fine" till end-game? You know, after you're done leveling?
#20 Jan 14 2013 at 6:39 AM Rating: Excellent
Needs More Smut
Avatar
*****
19,491 posts
Well, most BLM builds stacked INT and MAB like crazy anyway. That much isn't going to change.
____________________________
FFXI: Catwho on Bismarck. Once again a top bard on the server: Dardaubla 90 on 1/6/2014
Thayos wrote:
I can't understand anyone who skips the cutscenes of a Final Fantasy game. That's like going to Texas and not getting barbecue.

FFXIV: Katarh Mest on Lamia - Member of The Swarm and the League of Extraordinary Crafters
#21 Jan 14 2013 at 7:45 AM Rating: Good
Avatar
****
4,864 posts
ItsAMyri wrote:

This is like fixing the fact that no one uses Scythes by making Resolution a two hit skill and adding a four hit 'Scythe Resolution'. Sure, the underused weapon is now a logical choice but it doesn't actually change the playstyle of the job and the net result is just a nerf. It's like New Coke, you get a new flavor but lose the old one that most everyone was happy with.



Two Sentence Summary History of Job Updates in FFXI
All changes have a net result being a nerf.

This is what happens when jobs X, Y, and Z complain enough to the developers that their damage isn't exactly the same as jobs A, B and C (but conveniently leaving out what jobs A, B, and C don't have in the form of other abilities, magic, stances, etc.)

____________________________
Carbuncle


#22 Jan 14 2013 at 8:20 AM Rating: Excellent
Guru
Avatar
**
697 posts
Theonehio wrote:
SunriderRagnarok wrote:
Why do they insist on fixing defense and 1-handed calculations through merits?


Because everything is generally "fine" till end-game? You know, after you're done leveling?


It's better to simply fix what's broken than leave it broken and force players to fix it themselves through merits. I betcha they make you give up the opportunity to merit something highly beneficial in exchange for having 1-handers simply not suck. To me merits should focus on enhancing what we already have rather than fixing broken calculations or mechanics.
____________________________
Character: Camiie
Elvaan Female
Bastok Rank 10
MNK 99 / BST 99 / SMN 99 / DNC 99 / SAM 99 / WAR 99 / THF 99
#23 Jan 14 2013 at 10:08 AM Rating: Good
Avatar
****
7,426 posts
Camiie wrote:
Theonehio wrote:
SunriderRagnarok wrote:
Why do they insist on fixing defense and 1-handed calculations through merits?


Because everything is generally "fine" till end-game? You know, after you're done leveling?


It's better to simply fix what's broken than leave it broken and force players to fix it themselves through merits. I betcha they make you give up the opportunity to merit something highly beneficial in exchange for having 1-handers simply not suck. To me merits should focus on enhancing what we already have rather than fixing broken calculations or mechanics.

Doesn't take much to just add a new merit slot, heck it is likely easier than going through the jumbled coding that this team inherited. I am all good with merits to be quite honest. Hell people have been asking for more stuff to merit because they have been sitting on capped merits for so long. Now SE has suggested making more merit stuff and people don't like it...

No wonder they hate changing this game, damned if they do, damned if they don't.
____________________________
HEY GOOGLE. @#%^ OFF YOU. @#%^ YOUR BULLsh*t SEARCH ENGINE IN ITS @#%^ING sh*tTY BINARY ASS. ALL DAY LONG.

#24 Jan 14 2013 at 10:47 AM Rating: Excellent
***
2,873 posts
catwho wrote:
Well, most BLM builds stacked INT and MAB like crazy anyway. That much isn't going to change.


I only see it changing equipment decisions where a person is deciding between two pieces where the INT outweighs the MAB in terms of the new ratio. But these values given in the developers post aren't set in stone, but I do like the direction they are going.
____________________________


Return1 argued with Mellowy and wrote:

Seriously, you won't be @#%^ing happy until SE releases a full sized Bahamut avatar you can @#%^ing ride and use to kill players that annoy you, one shot AV/PW/Shinryuu, and burn the FFXI nations to the @#%^ing ground for fun. All while actually restoring mp used instead of costing any.

#25 Jan 14 2013 at 1:33 PM Rating: Excellent
Avatar
****
4,864 posts
rdmcandie wrote:

No wonder they hate changing this game, damned if they do, damned if they don't.


And you've hit the key reason why very few companies succeed at truly understanding their customers.

While SE's customers did technically ask for the ability to merit more, they didn't really mean merit more things poorly.



____________________________
Carbuncle


#26 Jan 14 2013 at 2:00 PM Rating: Excellent
Needs More Smut
Avatar
*****
19,491 posts
ImmortalAlchemist wrote:
catwho wrote:
Well, most BLM builds stacked INT and MAB like crazy anyway. That much isn't going to change.


I only see it changing equipment decisions where a person is deciding between two pieces where the INT outweighs the MAB in terms of the new ratio. But these values given in the developers post aren't set in stone, but I do like the direction they are going.


I remember getting my super shiny new Shadow Trewss from Einherjar, and getting a pitying look from a min/maxer along with a tell that "you know the mahatma slops are still better, right?"

Well yes, in the damage formula, they were technically more powerful. The difference was no more than 5-6 points of damage on most nukes. But damn did I look stylish nuking. Smiley: laugh

Edited, Jan 14th 2013 3:01pm by catwho
____________________________
FFXI: Catwho on Bismarck. Once again a top bard on the server: Dardaubla 90 on 1/6/2014
Thayos wrote:
I can't understand anyone who skips the cutscenes of a Final Fantasy game. That's like going to Texas and not getting barbecue.

FFXIV: Katarh Mest on Lamia - Member of The Swarm and the League of Extraordinary Crafters
#27 Jan 14 2013 at 4:10 PM Rating: Excellent
***
2,873 posts
catwho wrote:
ImmortalAlchemist wrote:
catwho wrote:
Well, most BLM builds stacked INT and MAB like crazy anyway. That much isn't going to change.


I only see it changing equipment decisions where a person is deciding between two pieces where the INT outweighs the MAB in terms of the new ratio. But these values given in the developers post aren't set in stone, but I do like the direction they are going.


I remember getting my super shiny new Shadow Trewss from Einherjar, and getting a pitying look from a min/maxer along with a tell that "you know the mahatma slops are still better, right?"

Well yes, in the damage formula, they were technically more powerful. The difference was no more than 5-6 points of damage on most nukes. But damn did I look stylish nuking. Smiley: laugh

Edited, Jan 14th 2013 3:01pm by catwho


Nothing wrong with being styling while you nuke. I've seen players back in the day forgo pants that gave useful stats just so they could keep their subligar on Smiley: laugh
____________________________


Return1 argued with Mellowy and wrote:

Seriously, you won't be @#%^ing happy until SE releases a full sized Bahamut avatar you can @#%^ing ride and use to kill players that annoy you, one shot AV/PW/Shinryuu, and burn the FFXI nations to the @#%^ing ground for fun. All while actually restoring mp used instead of costing any.

#28 Jan 14 2013 at 4:51 PM Rating: Excellent
Guru
Avatar
*****
10,399 posts
But taru can't be stylish. Their pants are like two funnels taped together. D:
#29 Jan 14 2013 at 5:40 PM Rating: Excellent
Sage
****
4,215 posts
It's not so bad when your macro gear is ugly. But when your idle gear is ugly that's a problem. Nares Trews and Manasa Chasuble immediately come to mind.
____________________________
Philemon on Valefor
Gjallarhorn 4/17/08
Daurdabla 5/9/11
Carnwenhan 5/4/12
Ryunohige 10/29/12
#30 Jan 14 2013 at 6:43 PM Rating: Excellent
Guru
Avatar
**
697 posts
rdmcandie wrote:
Camiie wrote:
Theonehio wrote:
SunriderRagnarok wrote:
Why do they insist on fixing defense and 1-handed calculations through merits?


Because everything is generally "fine" till end-game? You know, after you're done leveling?


It's better to simply fix what's broken than leave it broken and force players to fix it themselves through merits. I betcha they make you give up the opportunity to merit something highly beneficial in exchange for having 1-handers simply not suck. To me merits should focus on enhancing what we already have rather than fixing broken calculations or mechanics.

Doesn't take much to just add a new merit slot, heck it is likely easier than going through the jumbled coding that this team inherited. I am all good with merits to be quite honest. Hell people have been asking for more stuff to merit because they have been sitting on capped merits for so long. Now SE has suggested making more merit stuff and people don't like it...

No wonder they hate changing this game, damned if they do, damned if they don't.


I'm not really concerned with how much work it takes. SE is a big boy company charging a big boy price for their MMO. They can put their big boy pants on and get the hard things done if they really want to.

People have indeed been asking for more things to merit. I have my doubts that this is what anyone outside the dev team had in mind. To me, merits are supposed to be about enhancements and growth beyond the level cap. I don't think they should be used as a crutch for gimped jobs and lazy/inept devs.
____________________________
Character: Camiie
Elvaan Female
Bastok Rank 10
MNK 99 / BST 99 / SMN 99 / DNC 99 / SAM 99 / WAR 99 / THF 99
#31 Jan 14 2013 at 7:05 PM Rating: Default
Scholar
*****
11,181 posts
rdmcandie wrote:
Camiie wrote:
Theonehio wrote:
SunriderRagnarok wrote:
Why do they insist on fixing defense and 1-handed calculations through merits?


Because everything is generally "fine" till end-game? You know, after you're done leveling?


It's better to simply fix what's broken than leave it broken and force players to fix it themselves through merits. I betcha they make you give up the opportunity to merit something highly beneficial in exchange for having 1-handers simply not suck. To me merits should focus on enhancing what we already have rather than fixing broken calculations or mechanics.

Doesn't take much to just add a new merit slot, heck it is likely easier than going through the jumbled coding that this team inherited. I am all good with merits to be quite honest. Hell people have been asking for more stuff to merit because they have been sitting on capped merits for so long. Now SE has suggested making more merit stuff and people don't like it...

No wonder they hate changing this game, damned if they do, damned if they don't.


This. I wonder despite Camiie's bitching if they realized that most of the complaints tend to gravitate around end-game..not leveling, I also wonder if they realize that "overall fixing" of a mechanic affects more than just end-game. It's not "completely broken" or nothing would work at all in any application, but I'm pretty damn sure enmity for example worked just fine while I was leveling my PLD prior to the whole "sit on your ass and level in Abyssea" craze...yet end-game, go to the OF and I wonder what people tend to complain about and using which examples?

Unless I'm mistaken and 99% of the bitchfests about "broken mechanics" isn't end-game related, then by all means, SE should fix everything even though things work as they should except for end-game..where the complaints are about, which is why "fixing through merits" makes perfect sense since at that point is when people are complaining and when merits would actually do more toward the overall situation at that point. They can obviously change algorithms to their hearts content but it doesn't mean sh*t when it's only one portion of the game that's "broken"...even Matsui basically agrees, they want new players but they're focusing on people who are done leveling. Read: Where the issues are.

Camiie wrote:

To me, merits are supposed to be about enhancements and growth beyond the level cap. I don't think they should be used as a crutch for gimped jobs and lazy/inept devs.


To SE, they see it as another way of trying to fix things. SE, the "big boy company", the company making the game you're playing and bitching about looking into solutions through systems they've created. What's funny is, a lot of MMOs out there uses Talent trees to fix balance issues and no one complains lol.





Edited, Jan 14th 2013 5:07pm by Theonehio
#32 Jan 14 2013 at 7:36 PM Rating: Excellent
Guru
Avatar
*****
10,399 posts
Giving new merits is one thing. Fixing a problem through merits is another. Ultimately, when I think FFXI and merits, I see players being forced to make a choice, and usually they're not choices people want to make. If you dump your stat points into STR/DEX, you'll never be as good of a mage as someone who did INT/MND. Some might argue that that is the point, but in a game where we can be 20 classes on one character, it's just dumb. In a lot of cases, when people wind up talking about more merits, it's in the context of raising or even removing category caps. Occasionally you'll get suggestions like meritable Fast Cast, hMP, and so on, and those are all well and good. But there's also a good chance SE would dump those in the Other category and it'd become a choice against higher crit rate and the like. And given the merit system has its share of "no actual choice" in some merits being blatantly inferior to others, their stubborn insistence of not acceding to player demand has been historically irksome. And in the end, it's a lot easier to balance under the assumption of no or full merits than it is someone who's all over the place in the grand scheme.

The attempt to even spin this as "stupid players want stupid things to make the game even stupider" is utter bullsquat.

Edited, Jan 14th 2013 8:37pm by Seriha
#33Zymunn, Posted: Jan 14 2013 at 8:28 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Want to be sure I am understanding this. A melee job would want the str/dex and mage int/mnd. No brainer. So if you are going to be leveling a mage job, after having leveled whatever melee, you are screwed right? Cause there is no option to undo merits.
#34 Jan 14 2013 at 10:09 PM Rating: Excellent
Sage
****
5,684 posts
Zymunn wrote:
Quote:
dump your stat points into STR/DEX, you'll never be as good of a mage as someone who did INT/MND.
Want to be sure I am understanding this. A melee job would want the str/dex and mage int/mnd. No brainer. So if you are going to be leveling a mage job, after having leveled whatever melee, you are screwed right? Cause there is no option to undo merits.
The issue is you can't have the best WHM, BLM, WAR, and THF in the game all on the same character.

Redo-ing merits is an option if you want to change your focus (DD -> Mage, for example), but the cost is too high that you can't completely switch in one sitting and making frequent stat merit changes an impossible measure.

I have no problem with merits. I believe because we can have every job at lv20, that is precisely why merits need to be used for focusing, not that meriting stats really makes or breaks a job.... weapon skills are a different matter though- unlike meriting STR, not having Resolution at 5/5 on DRK will put you miles behind others. I'm glad SE is adjusting these merits.


Zymunn wrote:
Endgame is not the entire game. Get over the fact you have nothing to level anymore and work with what you have. You may not care nor want new, returning, players. That "big boy" company however wants and needs those players.
Blaming others gets us nowhere. If you don't want to take about "endgame", then nominate a topic to discuss because after reading your post, I have no clue what you're interested in.
____________________________
Signature starts here.
#35 Jan 14 2013 at 11:13 PM Rating: Excellent
Guru
Avatar
*****
10,399 posts
What I'm saying is halting character growth "just because" is dumb. FFXI would not implode if everyone had STR/DEX/VIT/AGI/INT/MND/CHR merits maxed at all once as instances of cross-stat calculations are rather minimal (and I'll forever make the case the game needs to be more hybrid friendly). And sure, while some people will eventually max again, those who still identify themselves as certain "mains" will still be able to be good as they always were (and better if job specific merits opened up).

The common counter against this idea tends to be the snowflake defense. Like, that guy who does nothing but play PUP all the time will be super seriously insulted that some other guy who just leveled it could dare be as good with equal gear and stronger merit flexibility. Far as my personal play went before I unsubbed, I bounced a lot among WAR, THF, DRK, RDM, BLU, and WHM. Pretty much everything but CHR would've been handy for me and it's not like I was terribad at these jobs. Maybe not optimally geared for obvious reasons of diversity and not striving to be a lootwhore amongst those I worked with, but you can basically get the idea that I wasn't locked to one character archetype like tank/melee/support. But when character growth stops in an MMO, it can easily translate to game over. And that's perhaps the true concept of endgame, not spamming VW, doing Legion, or whatever, because growth can come in many flavors.
#36 Jan 14 2013 at 11:41 PM Rating: Good
Avatar
****
7,426 posts
Quote:
People have indeed been asking for more things to merit. I have my doubts that this is what anyone outside the dev team had in mind. To me, merits are supposed to be about enhancements and growth beyond the level cap. I don't think they should be used as a crutch for gimped jobs and lazy/inept devs.


I agree completely, there are a lot of things that they do that are just lazy, and inept at times. I was just merely pointing out one of the likely reasons they did it. 1) it addresses players concerns of the 1H DD gap, and 2) allows players to invest their stagnant merit points. To them it seems like a win win, and realistically it address two of the issues players had with the game.

So I personally don't get the gripe towards it, its not like the DD gap is really noticeable on anything of level, its only when you step into endgame where the gap is apparent. So really it makes sense to adjust it like this, it doesn't impact any of the content at all, except for that level 75 (or possibly 99) and up. Hell most of us will have it capped in the first day and be back to bitching about our stagnant merits again a few weeks later.

I dunno I like the change, another thing to merit...meh. The only way Id be pissed off is if they tied it into the "Other Combat" Category with crit rate and such. (which knowing SE will likely be the destination)
____________________________
HEY GOOGLE. @#%^ OFF YOU. @#%^ YOUR BULLsh*t SEARCH ENGINE IN ITS @#%^ING sh*tTY BINARY ASS. ALL DAY LONG.

#37Lonix, Posted: Jan 15 2013 at 2:22 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Just a question, WHO complains about DRK when its a job nobody ever uses?
#38 Jan 15 2013 at 7:57 AM Rating: Good
Avatar
****
4,864 posts
Lonix wrote:
TheBarrister wrote:
ItsAMyri wrote:

This is like fixing the fact that no one uses Scythes by making Resolution a two hit skill and adding a four hit 'Scythe Resolution'. Sure, the underused weapon is now a logical choice but it doesn't actually change the playstyle of the job and the net result is just a nerf. It's like New Coke, you get a new flavor but lose the old one that most everyone was happy with.



Two Sentence Summary History of Job Updates in FFXI
All changes have a net result being a nerf.

This is what happens when jobs X, Y, and Z complain enough to the developers that their damage isn't exactly the same as jobs A, B and C (but conveniently leaving out what jobs A, B, and C don't have in the form of other abilities, magic, stances, etc.)



Just a question, WHO complains about DRK when its a job nobody ever uses?

And as I said before in regards to nerfing as much as I hate it, I am sure SE don't just nerf because a few people complain 24/7 about it. I am sure they do their own testing.


Just like they thoroughly test things before introducing them to the game, right?


Lonix wrote:

As much as I hate nerfs especially when DRK is my next DD job to level, simply saying complain enough and SE will nerf doesnt add up to me.


Job nerfs since 2003 say otherwise.

Lonix wrote:

With DRK it really is a job I rarely see anyone use.


The number of Rag/other DRK in VW, NNI and other content say otherwise. If you really are claiming you only see DRK rarely, I doubt you play this game anymore.


____________________________
Carbuncle


#39 Jan 15 2013 at 8:21 AM Rating: Excellent
Lonix wrote:
TheBarrister wrote:
ItsAMyri wrote:

This is like fixing the fact that no one uses Scythes by making Resolution a two hit skill and adding a four hit 'Scythe Resolution'. Sure, the underused weapon is now a logical choice but it doesn't actually change the playstyle of the job and the net result is just a nerf. It's like New Coke, you get a new flavor but lose the old one that most everyone was happy with.



Two Sentence Summary History of Job Updates in FFXI
All changes have a net result being a nerf.

This is what happens when jobs X, Y, and Z complain enough to the developers that their damage isn't exactly the same as jobs A, B and C (but conveniently leaving out what jobs A, B, and C don't have in the form of other abilities, magic, stances, etc.)



Just a question, WHO complains about DRK when its a job nobody ever uses?

And as I said before in regards to nerfing as much as I hate it, I am sure SE don't just nerf because a few people complain 24/7 about it. I am sure they do their own testing. As much as I hate nerfs especially when DRK is my next DD job to level, simply saying complain enough and SE will nerf doesnt add up to me.

With DRK it really is a job I rarely see anyone use.


It may just be something that's on your server, but on Lakshmi and I would imagine most other servers, Dark Knight has become a rather bandwagon-esque job due to Resolution. Much like how dual-wielding Axe/Ridill Warriors were back before the two-handed update and Samurai were back a few years ago. Dark Knights now are a dime a dozen, and Ragnaroks are pretty much the most common Relic being made nowadays. In my linkshell alone I know of at least three people that are working on one right now, and I know of several others doing one too. When it comes to current end-game events (Legion, final Tier Voidwatch, etc), Dark Knights are pretty much THE melee jobs being sought after first.

As for them not nerfing jobs because a few people were complaining, I have to disagree. A fair number of the nerfs in the past (Initial TP return from WS nerf, Ranger nerf, etc) have all been due to player outcry, predominantly from players not playing those jobs at the time, and feeling their abilities too cheap. So right now, most player outcry that Dark Knight is broken and whatnot are from non-Dark Knights that don't want to level the job, but still find it too overpowered in comparison to other DD jobs.

Edited, Jan 15th 2013 9:31am by Vlorsutes
____________________________
Lady Jinte wrote:

Vlorsutes' Negotiation Skill rises 0.2 points
Vlorsutes' Observant Parent Skill rises 0.3 points
Vlorsutes' Argument Diffusing Skill rises 0.1 points


My thoughts and reviews on all sorts of sci-fi stuff...and things.
#40CelestianNinja, Posted: Jan 15 2013 at 10:15 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) This is so true & sad to me at least. DRK in FFXI Lore was the hardest hitting melee in the game. It was when it came out then became nerfed to the point that leveling it to 75 took months cause no one wanted it. Every time DRK takes back its rightful place in the game another melee has to complain. I say know your role, after all that is why we have different jobs in the game.
#41 Jan 15 2013 at 1:31 PM Rating: Excellent
Guru
Avatar
**
697 posts
Theonehio wrote:
rdmcandie wrote:
Camiie wrote:
Theonehio wrote:
SunriderRagnarok wrote:
Why do they insist on fixing defense and 1-handed calculations through merits?


Because everything is generally "fine" till end-game? You know, after you're done leveling?


It's better to simply fix what's broken than leave it broken and force players to fix it themselves through merits. I betcha they make you give up the opportunity to merit something highly beneficial in exchange for having 1-handers simply not suck. To me merits should focus on enhancing what we already have rather than fixing broken calculations or mechanics.

Doesn't take much to just add a new merit slot, heck it is likely easier than going through the jumbled coding that this team inherited. I am all good with merits to be quite honest. Hell people have been asking for more stuff to merit because they have been sitting on capped merits for so long. Now SE has suggested making more merit stuff and people don't like it...

No wonder they hate changing this game, damned if they do, damned if they don't.


This. I wonder despite Camiie's bitching


Can we at least try to have a mature discussion? I know you dislike me since we tend to disagree a lot, but I'm trying to be civil here.

Quote:
if they realized that most of the complaints tend to gravitate around end-game..not leveling, I also wonder if they realize that "overall fixing" of a mechanic affects more than just end-game. It's not "completely broken" or nothing would work at all in any application, but I'm pretty damn sure enmity for example worked just fine while I was leveling my PLD prior to the whole "sit on your ass and level in Abyssea" craze...yet end-game, go to the OF and I wonder what people tend to complain about and using which examples?

Unless I'm mistaken and 99% of the bitchfests about "broken mechanics" isn't end-game related, then by all means, SE should fix everything even though things work as they should except for end-game..where the complaints are about, which is why "fixing through merits" makes perfect sense since at that point is when people are complaining and when merits would actually do more toward the overall situation at that point. They can obviously change algorithms to their hearts content but it doesn't mean sh*t when it's only one portion of the game that's "broken"...even Matsui basically agrees, they want new players but they're focusing on people who are done leveling. Read: Where the issues are.

Camiie wrote:

To me, merits are supposed to be about enhancements and growth beyond the level cap. I don't think they should be used as a crutch for gimped jobs and lazy/inept devs.


To SE, they see it as another way of trying to fix things. SE, the "big boy company", the company making the game you're playing and bitching about looking into solutions through systems they've created. What's funny is, a lot of MMOs out there uses Talent trees to fix balance issues and no one complains lol.


You're really missing my point. They want me to spend my time and merits just to (potentially) make 1-handed weapons relevant. Shouldn't they simply BE relevant? Why am I the one jumping through extra hoops just because they're too lazy to get to the root of the matter? Surely they know what the problem is. If they won't adjust the calculations for all levels then why not add some high/max level job traits to counteract the problem? Why does it have to be merits?

Edited, Jan 15th 2013 2:57pm by Camiie
____________________________
Character: Camiie
Elvaan Female
Bastok Rank 10
MNK 99 / BST 99 / SMN 99 / DNC 99 / SAM 99 / WAR 99 / THF 99
#42 Jan 15 2013 at 3:17 PM Rating: Excellent
Camiie wrote:
Theonehio wrote:
rdmcandie wrote:
Camiie wrote:
Theonehio wrote:
SunriderRagnarok wrote:
Why do they insist on fixing defense and 1-handed calculations through merits?


Because everything is generally "fine" till end-game? You know, after you're done leveling?


It's better to simply fix what's broken than leave it broken and force players to fix it themselves through merits. I betcha they make you give up the opportunity to merit something highly beneficial in exchange for having 1-handers simply not suck. To me merits should focus on enhancing what we already have rather than fixing broken calculations or mechanics.

Doesn't take much to just add a new merit slot, heck it is likely easier than going through the jumbled coding that this team inherited. I am all good with merits to be quite honest. Hell people have been asking for more stuff to merit because they have been sitting on capped merits for so long. Now SE has suggested making more merit stuff and people don't like it...

No wonder they hate changing this game, damned if they do, damned if they don't.


This. I wonder despite Camiie's bitching


Can we at least try to have a mature discussion? I know you dislike me since we tend to disagree a lot, but I'm trying to be civil here.


I insist we keep it that way. No need to start reducing it down to saying that "Oh, so and so is just having a bitch fit" or something like that. Let's at least try and act like adults.
____________________________
Lady Jinte wrote:

Vlorsutes' Negotiation Skill rises 0.2 points
Vlorsutes' Observant Parent Skill rises 0.3 points
Vlorsutes' Argument Diffusing Skill rises 0.1 points


My thoughts and reviews on all sorts of sci-fi stuff...and things.
#43 Jan 15 2013 at 6:27 PM Rating: Good
Avatar
***
1,029 posts
Camiie wrote:
You're really missing my point. They want me to spend my time and merits just to (potentially) make 1-handed weapons relevant. Shouldn't they simply BE relevant? Why am I the one jumping through extra hoops just because they're too lazy to get to the root of the matter? Surely they know what the problem is. If they won't adjust the calculations for all levels then why not add some high/max level job traits to counteract the problem? Why does it have to be merits?

Edited, Jan 15th 2013 2:57pm by Camiie
And, unless I missed something, the difference between 1-hand/2-hand weapons and the problems with defense reveal themselves well before players reach level cap. Why must we wait until level cap to see a solution?

The problem is in their formulas, their formulas are what need to be remedied.


Edited, Jan 15th 2013 4:28pm by SunriderRagnarok
____________________________
Level 75 Scruffy/37 Nerfherder

"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world, the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man."

- George Bernard Shaw
#44 Jan 16 2013 at 2:29 PM Rating: Decent
Sage
***
2,865 posts
Camiie wrote:
You're really missing my point. They want me to spend my time and merits just to (potentially) make 1-handed weapons relevant. Shouldn't they simply BE relevant? Why am I the one jumping through extra hoops just because they're too lazy to get to the root of the matter?


You have to spend time to make ANYTHING in FFXI relevant, nothing in the game simply IS relevant without sinking a bunch of time into it. This shouldn't be news to anyone who has played the game. Whether it's leveling up to cap, collecting expected gear, having necessary combat skills or WS, getting merit abilities (including sinking 90 merits into each 5/5 merit WS), investing large amounts of time in building a weapon (see: E/R/M DDs onry endgame playerbase), acquiring spells (was NIN or /NIN ever "relevant" without obtaining Utsusemi: Ni?), etc. I really don't see this as a hugely new way of thinking, it's just another minor hurdle to clear to play your job at a high level.

Now, the valid complaint would be if you have to choose between merits to make 1-handed weapons "relevant" at the expense of the ability to choose merits to make other jobs viable. I'm not just talking having to make a choice between MP and HP merits to have an ideal mage or non-mage and be able to completely min/max ALL jobs, but having to give up something that's a practical necessity to be on par with your job. I don't mind someone who focuses on 1h being able to have a slight edge on a jack of all trades by choosing 1h-focused merits though. Personally for me using 7 jobs that are all 1h/h2h/ranged, I wouldn't mind be rewarded a little bit for specialization (just as, say, an all out DD focused job like SAM or DRK is prioritized over hybrid DDs, or a dedicated healing job in WHM gets picked first when you're really need healing).

I don't really expect to this to force that kind of choice though. Even if they didn't add more merit capacity (seems like they probably will?), if you have to do something like drop Enemy Crit Rate- merits in order to level up some new "Other" merit, if that's the choice you have to make oh well. I'll go with capping Crit Rate and New 1h Merit in the Other category as the new optimal loadout.

rdmcandie wrote:
Hell most of us will have it capped in the first day and be back to bitching about our stagnant merits again a few weeks later.


This. If you've been playing regularly in the past couple years, you're likely capped on merits anyway. Just in the past couple weeks I wiped out an entire 5/5 merit WS and replaced it with a different WS, and drastically redid my DNC Tier II merits, and I was back capped at 30/30 merits with little more than joining a handful of VW parties. Probably not even worth the effort to complain when just getting the merits is likely to be less time and effort than stressing yourself out about it.
____________________________
Anza: Titan 2004-2011 / Capuchin: Phoenix 2011-???
#45 Jan 16 2013 at 2:34 PM Rating: Good
Sage
Avatar
****
5,245 posts
Okipuit wrote:

Greetings,

Quote:
Desperate Blows currently only applies to 2-handed weapons. Would Last Resort post-update still only give 2-handed weapon Haste, or would 1-handed jobs also be able to benefit from it?


Currently, the development team plans to have the proposed Last Resort haste benefit only apply to two-handed weapons. The reason being is there are already a number of benefits that single-handed weapons posses such as dual wield, martial arts, etc.

We also wanted to share some additional inquiries about the battle system adjustments:

Quote:
What's going to happen with hand-to-hand weapons?

Categorically hand-to-hand weapons fall under the single-handed weapon classification; however, the stats for hand-to-hand weapons are quite different from that of swords, which are literally held in just one hand, and they will not be treated the same. We will be separating hand-to-hand weapons from this balance adjustment and making changes that fit more in line with the weapon.

Quote:
Will the elemental magic adjustments apply to automatons as well?

Yes, we will be applying the elemental magic adjustments to automatons as well. Though, by simply raising the stats for automatons there will be aspects that cause the automaton to overload easier and such, so we will be keeping these points in mind and looking at balance.

Lastly, we understand that some of you wish to be able to increase the number of merit weapon skills that can be fully upgraded, but this is something that we discussed previously. Instead of making it so you can get everything, we're thinking about making it so there will be benefits without having to max out a category, which will open up the choices a bit more.


http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/29831-Overall-Battle-System-Adjustments-for-the-Future?p=393966#post393966


Edited, Jan 16th 2013 3:40pm by Szabo
#46 Jan 16 2013 at 3:30 PM Rating: Decent
Avatar
****
9,047 posts
meh.
____________________________
lolgaxe wrote:
When it comes to sitting around not doing anything for long periods of time, only being active for short windows, and marginal changes and sidegrades I'd say FFXI players were the perfect choice for politicians.

clicky
#47 Jan 16 2013 at 3:58 PM Rating: Good
Guru
Avatar
**
697 posts
Anza wrote:
Camiie wrote:
You're really missing my point. They want me to spend my time and merits just to (potentially) make 1-handed weapons relevant. Shouldn't they simply BE relevant? Why am I the one jumping through extra hoops just because they're too lazy to get to the root of the matter?


You have to spend time to make ANYTHING in FFXI relevant, nothing in the game simply IS relevant without sinking a bunch of time into it. This shouldn't be news to anyone who has played the game. Whether it's leveling up to cap, collecting expected gear, having necessary combat skills or WS, getting merit abilities (including sinking 90 merits into each 5/5 merit WS), investing large amounts of time in building a weapon (see: E/R/M DDs onry endgame playerbase), acquiring spells (was NIN or /NIN ever "relevant" without obtaining Utsusemi: Ni?), etc. I really don't see this as a hugely new way of thinking, it's just another minor hurdle to clear to play your job at a high level.


Again my point is being missed. What they seem to be asking 1-handed weapon users to do is go above and beyond everything 2-handed weapon users have to do just to hopefully make their weapons viable against strong targets. I'm talking beyond skillups, gearing, making magian/emp/relic/mythic weapons, normal weapon skill merits, job specific merits, stat merits, etc. Heck, a 2-handed user could be slack in some of those areas and still do decent damage, but to be a capable 1-handed weapon user I would have to do all of the above and go into this new merit thing just to have a shot at approaching where the 2-handers are.

Quote:
Now, the valid complaint would be if you have to choose between merits to make 1-handed weapons "relevant" at the expense of the ability to choose merits to make other jobs viable. I'm not just talking having to make a choice between MP and HP merits to have an ideal mage or non-mage and be able to completely min/max ALL jobs, but having to give up something that's a practical necessity to be on par with your job. I don't mind someone who focuses on 1h being able to have a slight edge on a jack of all trades by choosing 1h-focused merits though. Personally for me using 7 jobs that are all 1h/h2h/ranged, I wouldn't mind be rewarded a little bit for specialization (just as, say, an all out DD focused job like SAM or DRK is prioritized over hybrid DDs, or a dedicated healing job in WHM gets picked first when you're really need healing).

I don't really expect to this to force that kind of choice though. Even if they didn't add more merit capacity (seems like they probably will?), if you have to do something like drop Enemy Crit Rate- merits in order to level up some new "Other" merit, if that's the choice you have to make oh well. I'll go with capping Crit Rate and New 1h Merit in the Other category as the new optimal loadout.


I hope you're right and they won't force that choice, but I can't imagine them being so generous. If they were going to be nice about it I can only assume they'd be going down the fix-it-properly route.

rdmcandie wrote:
Hell most of us will have it capped in the first day and be back to bitching about our stagnant merits again a few weeks later.


Quote:
This. If you've been playing regularly in the past couple years, you're likely capped on merits anyway. Just in the past couple weeks I wiped out an entire 5/5 merit WS and replaced it with a different WS, and drastically redid my DNC Tier II merits, and I was back capped at 30/30 merits with little more than joining a handful of VW parties. Probably not even worth the effort to complain when just getting the merits is likely to be less time and effort than stressing yourself out about it.


If I got 30 free merits just for logging in every day I'd still think the idea was stupid.

Edited, Jan 16th 2013 4:58pm by Camiie
____________________________
Character: Camiie
Elvaan Female
Bastok Rank 10
MNK 99 / BST 99 / SMN 99 / DNC 99 / SAM 99 / WAR 99 / THF 99
#48 Jan 16 2013 at 4:28 PM Rating: Default
Scholar
**
297 posts
Quote:
Again my point is being missed.


I am just trying to understand better. As it seems what you are saying is being understood. I do not care about damage this or damage that. I play for fun.

So what is your point? It seems you are upset that instead of damage dealt being equal between 2h and 1h weapons 1 handed weapons deal less. So would you be happy with many of the benifits on single handed weapons being dropped, or added to 2h, so that single weapon can deal more damage? How about higher penalty for dual wielding? Like say longer delay, less damage dealt (average of both weapons)?

Matsui wrote:
there are already a number of benefits that single-handed weapons posses such as dual wield, martial arts, etc.


Your wish will obviously not be granted. There are higher delays on 2h weapons, as well as less beneficial stats, to off set the higher base damage. So instead of complaining find a solution that will work and fit what you want so the game does not become unbalanced more then it already is. A skilled 1h, obviously going to be dual wielding, will out damage a lazy and unskilled 2h player.
#49 Jan 16 2013 at 5:00 PM Rating: Good
Avatar
****
9,047 posts
I guess I should have expanded. I was thinking BLU/DRK might be kind of fun to tool around with, but no love for one-handed weapons makes it meh.
____________________________
lolgaxe wrote:
When it comes to sitting around not doing anything for long periods of time, only being active for short windows, and marginal changes and sidegrades I'd say FFXI players were the perfect choice for politicians.

clicky
#50 Jan 16 2013 at 5:17 PM Rating: Decent
Sage
***
2,865 posts
Camiie wrote:
Again my point is being missed. What they seem to be asking 1-handed weapon users to do is go above and beyond everything 2-handed weapon users have to do just to hopefully make their weapons viable against strong targets. I'm talking beyond skillups, gearing, making magian/emp/relic/mythic weapons, normal weapon skill merits, job specific merits, stat merits, etc. Heck, a 2-handed user could be slack in some of those areas and still do decent damage, but to be a capable 1-handed weapon user I would have to do all of the above and go into this new merit thing just to have a shot at approaching where the 2-handers are.


I think the real question is whether 1h/h2h are even intended to use their melee weapons to DD on the same level as the 2-handers. I'd say only MNK and maaaaybe NIN even qualify for legitimate discussion. And it's not as if MNK is completely shunned for DD roles now. Your average well geared MNK can get invites to DD now, even if it isn't the current "top" DD star that DRK and WAR currently are (but watch out incoming DRK-nerf). And we don't really even understand yet whether these 1h changes will affect h2h!

EDIT: NVM, looks like h2h is already confirmed to be treated differently:
Quote:
We also wanted to share some additional inquiries about the battle system adjustments:

Quote:
What's going to happen with hand-to-hand weapons?

Categorically hand-to-hand weapons fall under the single-handed weapon classification; however, the stats for hand-to-hand weapons are quite different from that of swords, which are literally held in just one hand, and they will not be treated the same. We will be separating hand-to-hand weapons from this balance adjustment and making changes that fit more in line with the weapon.


There are reasons the other 1handers, just by virtue of their job roles, probably SHOULDN'T compete in terms of physical weapon damage with the pure DD 2handers whose main role really is just "do damage" (and mind you, this is coming from a dedicated "light DD" player, with MNK THF RNG NIN COR PUP DNC):

i) Hybrid and pet jobs:
- BLU: Large portion of their damage comes from spells, so it's very justifiable that their 1h weapon damage potential should be considerably less than a 100% physical DD.
- BST and PUP: 1h/h2h using jobs where it can be justified that they shouldn't do as much damage from the player's weapons since they have access to a pet for a large part of their potential damage. PUP+automaton is actually a very competitive DD in the right situations, it's just that it's not very good for certain activities for other reasons (weak zerg tools, songs/rolls/embrava don't affect puppet in buff-heavy situations, hurt in VW by temps not affecting puppets) [EDIT: Since it was confirmed that h2h is going to be treated differently than "1h"]

ii) Jobs that serve some different function that can justify reducing weapon DD potential:
- THF: Has some solid DD capability, but some key unique features with TH (obviously the big one), lolHatecontrol, and superior evasion. Would certainly benefit from 1h adjustments, but I don't think it's at all unfair that a THF doesn't keep up with DRK/WAR/SAM damage-wise. Get back to me when they give SAM TH7 and we'll talk.
- DNC: Healing and survival capability, it's not really intended to be an all out DD.
- PLD, RUN: The physical/magical tanks, each in their own style. With upcoming enmity adjustments, maybe don't need to keep hate through damage as much as they have at times.
- NIN: The arguable case. They may not do so hot at tanking now, but evasion/shadow style tanking did rule the game for long stretches of time, they were highly useful in Abyssea, and still a must have job in content like VW with many exclusive procs - SE is still finding them a role, even if that's not as a 1h DD specialist. NIN also has some benefit in being a very good solo/lowman job, so maybe that versatility/survivability counts for something that justifies them not keeping up with the pure DDs.

iii) 1h users which are irrrelevant to this discussion:
- RNG: Definitely a DD (and a very useful one in many strategies), but ranged damage isn't affected by 1h melee buffs or lack thereof. Should really be seen more as "ranged" as opposed to "1h".
- COR: Can do a little melee damage, but clearly really intended for buffs > ranged WS damage > ranged damage. Melee isn't the priority by any means.
- RDM, BRD, meleeWHM, GEO: Mentioned because they can indeed use 1h weapons, but we all know they aren't designed to be high end DD jobs.


So... which jobs are really being treated unfairly? Is there really a 1h job that should be an elite DD that is being held back here? Why is there something inherently wrong with the jobs that are designed for the DD role being 2h?

Edited, Jan 16th 2013 6:38pm by Anza
____________________________
Anza: Titan 2004-2011 / Capuchin: Phoenix 2011-???
#51 Jan 16 2013 at 6:19 PM Rating: Decent
**
569 posts
Zymunn wrote:
Quote:
Again my point is being missed.


I am just trying to understand better. As it seems what you are saying is being understood. I do not care about damage this or damage that. I play for fun.

So what is your point? It seems you are upset that instead of damage dealt being equal between 2h and 1h weapons 1 handed weapons deal less. So would you be happy with many of the benifits on single handed weapons being dropped, or added to 2h, so that single weapon can deal more damage? How about higher penalty for dual wielding? Like say longer delay, less damage dealt (average of both weapons)?

Matsui wrote:
there are already a number of benefits that single-handed weapons posses such as dual wield, martial arts, etc.


Your wish will obviously not be granted. There are higher delays on 2h weapons, as well as less beneficial stats, to off set the higher base damage. So instead of complaining find a solution that will work and fit what you want so the game does not become unbalanced more then it already is. A skilled 1h, obviously going to be dual wielding, will out damage a lazy and unskilled 2h player.



Higher delay doesn't mean much in fact the higher delay helps two handers. X-hit builds are easier then ever to make a decent one, on top of DA and triple attack are easier then ever to get as well. Then there is also sam still the hardest job to completely derp will still kick the crap out of any 1hander.
____________________________
.
« Previous 1 2 3
Reply To Thread

Colors Smileys Quote OriginalQuote Checked Help

 

Recent Visitors: 135 All times are in CDT
Anonymous Guests (135)