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Level 99 R/M/E and WoE Weapons Follow

#52 May 03 2013 at 4:34 PM Rating: Default
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ChaChaJaJa wrote:
I don't think the issue is about being butthurt, I think the issue is that if this isn't adjusted, SE just made 10 years of content obsolete and effectively crashed the economy


Funny...people said this very same thing when Abyssea came out.
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#53 May 03 2013 at 4:41 PM Rating: Good
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Theonehio wrote:
ChaChaJaJa wrote:
I don't think the issue is about being butthurt, I think the issue is that if this isn't adjusted, SE just made 10 years of content obsolete and effectively crashed the economy


Funny...people said this very same thing when Abyssea came out.


It was true.

And then the new gear was dead sexy, and we didn't care. Or at least I didn't.
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#54 May 03 2013 at 5:23 PM Rating: Good
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Hey look, I hope you're right. I honestly really hope so. I don't want the state of the game to decline. I just don't have a ton of faith in the responses we've been getting from the devs. It sounds an awful lot like "Oh sh*t- didn't expect this response. We have a plan- really we do. What is it? Oh wait- can't discuss that right now. But I promise we have a plan. Or an outline of a plan. I just hope we have the manpower to implement it..."

And honestly, if they render R/M/E obsolete, the economy will suffer.



Edited, May 3rd 2013 7:29pm by ChaChaJaJa
#55 May 03 2013 at 5:43 PM Rating: Decent
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ChaChaJaJa wrote:
And honestly, if they render R/M/E obsolete, the economy will suffer.


Feh. I played this game for like 6 years and never got my shiny little perfect weapon. They had their time in the sun. They got to walk around all badass and be on top of the world. Those days are not meant to last forever, and I find the continued catering to those weapons tiring. Didn't see me whining when Byakko's was no longer hot stuff. Didn't blink an eye when the Joyeuse didn't matter. Couldn't have cared less that my Morrigan's Robe was a mannequin peace. Out with the old, in with the new - it's the way of a MMORPG. Cuz we saw stagnation during WotG and those 3 awful mini-expansions before Abyssea, and I lost all of my dozens of friends over it.
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#56 May 03 2013 at 6:03 PM Rating: Decent
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Erecia wrote:
ChaChaJaJa wrote:
And honestly, if they render R/M/E obsolete, the economy will suffer.


Feh. I played this game for like 6 years and never got my shiny little perfect weapon. They had their time in the sun. They got to walk around all badass and be on top of the world. Those days are not meant to last forever, and I find the continued catering to those weapons tiring. Didn't see me whining when Byakko's was no longer hot stuff. Didn't blink an eye when the Joyeuse didn't matter. Couldn't have cared less that my Morrigan's Robe was a mannequin peace. Out with the old, in with the new - it's the way of a MMORPG. Cuz we saw stagnation during WotG and those 3 awful mini-expansions before Abyssea, and I lost all of my dozens of friends over it.


None of the pieces that you mention were the basis of an entire economic system... R/M/E are though.
#57 May 03 2013 at 6:07 PM Rating: Good
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ChaChaJaJa wrote:
Erecia wrote:
ChaChaJaJa wrote:
And honestly, if they render R/M/E obsolete, the economy will suffer.


Feh. I played this game for like 6 years and never got my shiny little perfect weapon. They had their time in the sun. They got to walk around all badass and be on top of the world. Those days are not meant to last forever, and I find the continued catering to those weapons tiring. Didn't see me whining when Byakko's was no longer hot stuff. Didn't blink an eye when the Joyeuse didn't matter. Couldn't have cared less that my Morrigan's Robe was a mannequin peace. Out with the old, in with the new - it's the way of a MMORPG. Cuz we saw stagnation during WotG and those 3 awful mini-expansions before Abyssea, and I lost all of my dozens of friends over it.


None of the pieces that you mention were the basis of an entire economic system... R/M/E are though.

Didn't play much during ToAU, did you? Khroma ore used to be some srs cash. I did daily Shadows of the Mind runs for weeks, months maybe. And I never had to create my own group - there were ALWAYS shouts for it, day and night.
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#58 May 03 2013 at 6:30 PM Rating: Default
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Pawkeshup wrote:

Here's the problem: If you don't get it when they do, you won't get it. At all.


Actually from what I am hearing (correct me if I am wrong) skirmish is already doable for people with some decent equips. And SE is already talking about nerfing it. My experience is I tend to get at things when the vast middle tier of players attack content (voidwatch for example).

I'll be a bit behind because I am trapped in work hell currently (only 11 more days to go before I might theoretically get a day off!)

But I am pretty confident that when things are a bit more figured out and the upper-middle tier of players starts getting more organized about tackling them, I will be able to get on board.

And if not, I can continue derping around the way I already do. I guess what I am saying is I don't lose here.
#59 May 03 2013 at 6:30 PM Rating: Good
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So you guys are casual. You won't get anything from Delve until they nerf it or other players figure out how to easy-mode the monsters, because you aren't willing to spend 3 hours (from 11:30 to 2:30 AM before work at 7) Nether Blasting and SA WSing crabs to death. That's pretty reasonable imop, but there's honestly not anything worthwhile for you to do while you wait for the nerf.


Still, I don't really get the positive reactions to this change. Pre-patch, a casual melee player could be 10-20% behind a perfectly geared 99 RME player if they knew what they were doing and invested their effort/gil wisely. Now it's a 50-60% difference between casual and hardcore player. This damage difference is comparable to if the 90-cap quest had been impossible for any but the most elite of the elite, but you guys don't seem to care. Normally this is the kind of thing that would turn Alla into a roiling cesspool of passive-aggressive rage, but instead you're like, "Oh good! I'm effectively a second class citizen now, but at least someone's efforts were wasted." I guess I just don't get it.


PS. Khroma Ore was valuable. It wasn't a cornerstone of the economy. If SE had made Khroma Ore drop from Hilltroll Puppetmasters, the market would have been flooded and the small subset of people who spammed Shadows of the Mind would have had a sad. This change makes everyone that does Dynamis, Salvage, or Voidwatch has a sad. If you didn't notice, that's essentially the last two years worth of events. The scale of "sad" here is just a liiiittle different. Plenty of players are going to see their sources of income dry up in the coming months. Get ready for the consumable markets to be flooded again, I guess.
#60 May 03 2013 at 7:09 PM Rating: Excellent
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Pretty much what was said above.

The gulf between "Casual" and "Hardcore" is now staggeringly huge, completely undoing all of the good work Abyssea and Voidwatch (former in particular) achieved in levelling the field somewhat. Sure, items from Naakual aren't bad but the stuff available to "Hardcore" players through Delve is just so much stupidly better.
If you're a casual player... there really isn't much left for you now, much that is considered 'relevant' by a fair chunk of the playerbase now anyway.

Seeker's of Adoulin was fine until Delve came along, now I find myself seriously not only questioning the direction the developers are wanting to take it but also questioning if I'll be around to see it happen.

In a way... the game has been hit by a serious case of "Power Creep".
Pay particular attention to 2:08 onwards and replace "Trading Cards" with "Relic Weapons".





Edited, May 3rd 2013 9:16pm by Tatham
#61 May 03 2013 at 7:34 PM Rating: Default
You know what cracks me up. All you elitists talking about SE ruining the game and all the hard work everyone put into RME then y'all are the first ones diving into the new content achieving and obtaining goals and gear. Then when a someone doesn't have RME wants in you promptly tell them no. All that's doing is creating a larger gap between the player base.

You talk so much crap about earning your way but everyone pays the same to play. So we should all get an equal shot. Elitists are whats ruining this game. Not SE.
#62 May 03 2013 at 8:48 PM Rating: Decent
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TheBroker wrote:
You know what cracks me up. All you elitists talking about SE ruining the game and all the hard work everyone put into RME then y'all are the first ones diving into the new content achieving and obtaining goals and gear. Then when a someone doesn't have RME wants in you promptly tell them no. All that's doing is creating a larger gap between the player base.

You talk so much crap about earning your way but everyone pays the same to play. So we should all get an equal shot. Elitists are whats ruining this game. Not SE.

No, you shouldn't get an "equal shot". You have an equal shot. You can build an Empy weapon if you want. That's the E of that RME you are so desperately using to give yourself some form of relevance in this thread.

I get it, you don't like elitist shouts. Here's the deal. You organize your own ****, let anyone come who wants. You have your equal shot, you're just too lazy of a ******** to do it.
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#63 May 03 2013 at 10:04 PM Rating: Default
First of I'm not lazy and I have organized my own ???. You know ???? about me bro.

Secondly there's no need to build an outdated RME. Can if you want. And I have. But it's not needed.

I want nothing to do with you spoiled elitists bull????. I don't need you or your homies acceptance to have "relevance in this thread". All you've done is proven my point. You guys hate that people coming back or are new have an equal shot at getting great items without having to spend months farming, buying gil, or camping NM's for all the "leet" gear. Bunch of spoiled brats I say.

Well deal with it cause there are tons of "noobs" without NNI or any other BS getting this great gear. Deal with it or go play TERA.

Edited, May 4th 2013 12:06am by TheBroker
#64 May 03 2013 at 10:50 PM Rating: Decent
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Erecia wrote:
ChaChaJaJa wrote:
And honestly, if they render R/M/E obsolete, the economy will suffer.


Feh. I played this game for like 6 years and never got my shiny little perfect weapon. They had their time in the sun. They got to walk around all badass and be on top of the world. Those days are not meant to last forever, and I find the continued catering to those weapons tiring. Didn't see me whining when Byakko's was no longer hot stuff. Didn't blink an eye when the Joyeuse didn't matter. Couldn't have cared less that my Morrigan's Robe was a mannequin peace. Out with the old, in with the new - it's the way of a MMORPG. Cuz we saw stagnation during WotG and those 3 awful mini-expansions before Abyssea, and I lost all of my dozens of friends over it.
As hard as it is to believe, I actually agree with Erecia for once.

Growth for MMORPGs does include making old content less important and/or obsolete. It's a bit surprising to see some have difficulty coping with it. Then again, there are no ways for the old gear to be useful or at least visible in game.

ChaChaJaJa wrote:
And honestly, if they render R/M/E obsolete, the economy will suffer.
If R/M/E is all that is keeping the economy moving, that's a sign of a MUCH bigger problem that should probably be dealt with over using R/M/E as a crutch.

Edited, May 4th 2013 1:05am by Ruisu
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#65 May 03 2013 at 11:15 PM Rating: Good
SE had, to this point, been pretty good about making the old gear easier to obtain while still keeping it somewhat relevant. A determined BST can solo a base relic in three months now, something that was impossible prior to the Dynamis changes. Folks did the level 75 alliance raids with a party. Brutal Earring is still worn by 90% of the DD population.

The introduction of these weapons has basically made almost every piece of content prior to Adoulin a waste of time. Even when {sea} was added, people still did {sky.} Even when Einherjar and ZNMs and the ToAU kings were added, people still did land gods and Dynamis. Even when Abyssea yanked everyone up to level 99, there was still a handful of people doing Limbus and Salvage runs because there was always a market for alexandrite and ancient beastcoins.

On the upside, this may make the price of umbral marrows plummet to the point where I can actually finish my 99 horn.
#66 May 03 2013 at 11:33 PM Rating: Good
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Ruisu wrote:
Erecia wrote:
ChaChaJaJa wrote:
And honestly, if they render R/M/E obsolete, the economy will suffer.


Feh. I played this game for like 6 years and never got my shiny little perfect weapon. They had their time in the sun. They got to walk around all badass and be on top of the world. Those days are not meant to last forever, and I find the continued catering to those weapons tiring. Didn't see me whining when Byakko's was no longer hot stuff. Didn't blink an eye when the Joyeuse didn't matter. Couldn't have cared less that my Morrigan's Robe was a mannequin peace. Out with the old, in with the new - it's the way of a MMORPG. Cuz we saw stagnation during WotG and those 3 awful mini-expansions before Abyssea, and I lost all of my dozens of friends over it.
As hard as it is to believe, I actually agree with Erecia for once.

Growth for MMORPGs does include making old content less important and/or obsolete. It's a bit surprising to see some have difficulty coping with it. Then again, there are no ways for the old gear to be useful or at least visible in game.
That's what a lot of people say about MMOs in general. However, as has been discussed in this thread, this has never applied to ultimate weapons in FFXI.

Ruisu wrote:
ChaChaJaJa wrote:
And honestly, if they render R/M/E obsolete, the economy will suffer.
If R/M/E is all that is keeping the economy moving, that's a sign of a MUCH bigger problem that should probably be dealt with over using R/M/E as a crutch.
Well, the game's economy does have problems. Crafting isn't worth a damn anymore. Very few valuable resources are actually farmed. To varying degrees, the majority of the level 99 population participated in Salvage, Dynamis, and Voidwatch to sell RME items to upgraders. If not for these activities, it's hard to say what would've happened to the game's economy in the last two and a half years. And it's hard to say what's going to happen going forward.
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#67 May 04 2013 at 2:38 AM Rating: Good
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Tatham's reference to power creap is essentially what happened here. Previous FFXI was very good at modulating and controlling it, we only got significantly stronger when level increase's were introduced which is what is supposed to happen. SoA was fine until SE broke the game by making those weapons so easy to acquire when positioned against previous ultimate weapons. The video's mention about card collections is EXACTLY what's happening now. People are seeing their investments being thrown away so casually and are choosing to just start over on another game rather then try to rebuild their old position.

The funny part is the casual players actually think this gives them equal footing, it doesn't. The requirements to attempt and participate in the content to acquire those weapons are such that casuals won't see it for months if not a year or more. So all the "hated" elite players that stay will be acquiring those D200+ weapons long before they become available to the casual population. Very soon you'll start seeing those new weapons become a requirement by the player community and casual players will be even further excluded from events.

That is why suddenly releasing such powerful equipment is a bad idea, you want to slowly release that stuff. Delve should of been released in sets, first the Tier I~III fights. Three to four months later release the Tier IV~V fights and the first set of amazing weapons, RME would then be upgradable via drops or point purchases from those fights. Another three to four months later you release the Tier VI super boss's that drop the OMG weapons while simultaneously introducing drops / point purchases that upgrade RMEs further.

For a WoW reference, if Blizzard released WoTLK and Cata on the same day, would anyone even bother doing WoTLK? No because the effort to reword ratio of stuff from Cata is that much higher that any time spent on WoTLK is wasted when it could be spend on Cata.
#68 May 04 2013 at 5:17 AM Rating: Good
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TheBroker wrote:
First of I'm not lazy and I have organized my own ???. You know ???? about me bro.

Secondly there's no need to build an outdated RME. Can if you want. And I have. But it's not needed.

I want nothing to do with you spoiled elitists bull????. I don't need you or your homies acceptance to have "relevance in this thread". All you've done is proven my point. You guys hate that people coming back or are new have an equal shot at getting great items without having to spend months farming, buying gil, or camping NM's for all the "leet" gear. Bunch of spoiled brats I say.

Well deal with it cause there are tons of "noobs" without NNI or any other BS getting this great gear. Deal with it or go play TERA.

Edited, May 4th 2013 12:06am by TheBroker

With "my elistist bullsh*t." You moron, I don't even HAVE an Empy. Your comments ARE irrelevant. The reason people are pissed off has NOTHING to do with their toys being taken away so they aren't the elite anymore. It's the invalidation of all that time and effort spent GETTING the toys. The simple fact is that you are proving your idiocy with each post.

You understand how this game works? No. Obviously not.

OK, let me put this in small words since you didn't watch the video above, didn't read most of this thread, and are either trolling or blazingly incompetent.

The hardcore crowd is a means to getting what the casual crowd wants. SE added +2 armor drops to enemies who drop Empyrean weapon consumables because it would encourage cooperation to help both the player doing the Empyrean and the player needing +2 armor. They WANT us to team up. They WANT us to play together. That's why all the content they've ever made since Abyssea has tried to cater to multiple levels of player.

By basically taking out R/M/E and replacing them with items that the elitist crowd will eventually be able to grind as they have ground out kings, gods, sea, Salvage, and Abyssea, they are making the gap between you, you filthy casual you, and them, much more massive.

You talk about having an "equal shot" constantly as if new players are the oppressed @#%^ing masses. Guess what genius, they are at a massive disadvantage. Let me clue you in. You WANT the elitist grinding old content. You WANT them helping lesser geared people. Ever notice how climbs on VW rarely have a requirement other than show up? Yea, the elitist shouts for the bosses with good drops are because they @#%^ing want people to show up ready. Otherwise, they will take anyone because it doesn't matter.

But killing RME farming means:

- Killing Dynamis
- Killing Assaults
- Killing Salvage
- Killing Einherjar
- Killing Nyzul
- Killing Abyssea +2 farming

So, now, all those new players have to do all that sh*t themselves. They will not have people with the knowledge, experience, and more powerful gear there to assist them. They will have to dig out of that hole themselves. They will have to struggle, and fight, and hope to find people of like mind or very kind, very bored players to help them move forward. Plus, those elite players? Often they are crafters too. If you **** them off, if they leave because SE invalidates their work, then watch how hard it gets to be to find consumables and rare drops they farm in order to feed their habits.

Pissing off the community is never a good idea. You can say "Oh yay now I get to be the man!" But really, you'll be a lone man in a very empty room because everyone else will move to a game that allows them to participate, not one that rips away their time.

Edited, May 5th 2013 9:21am by Pawkeshup
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Olorinus the Ludicrous wrote:
The idea of old school is way more interesting than the reality
#69 May 04 2013 at 6:13 AM Rating: Good
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Olorinus the Ludicrous wrote:
Pawkeshup wrote:

Here's the problem: If you don't get it when they do, you won't get it. At all.


Actually from what I am hearing (correct me if I am wrong) skirmish is already doable for people with some decent equips. And SE is already talking about nerfing it. My experience is I tend to get at things when the vast middle tier of players attack content (voidwatch for example).

I'll be a bit behind because I am trapped in work hell currently (only 11 more days to go before I might theoretically get a day off!)

But I am pretty confident that when things are a bit more figured out and the upper-middle tier of players starts getting more organized about tackling them, I will be able to get on board.

And if not, I can continue derping around the way I already do. I guess what I am saying is I don't lose here.


With how delve works, leech one kill and no reason to dump gil into skirmish. People bring it up all the time, they would grind points over the RNG any day or just buy one that is better off the AH. That has pissed off just as many people as R/E/Ms since you don't need to do it at all when a naakul weapon would be good enough or like already said just leech a spot.

Think about it a little, do you really want to give a company money that thinks it is ok to outdate content they just added to the game the month before. I would like to think people will still be interested in skirmish weapons but who here really thinks that is the case. It is plain as day it will not work out like SE thinks it will and has only done damage to the game.

Edited, May 4th 2013 11:26am by RavennofTitan
#70 May 04 2013 at 7:55 AM Rating: Good
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Tatham wrote:
The gulf between "Casual" and "Hardcore" is now staggeringly huge, completely undoing all of the good work Abyssea and Voidwatch (former in particular) achieved in levelling the field somewhat. Sure, items from Naakual aren't bad but the stuff available to "Hardcore" players through Delve is just so much stupidly better.
If you're a casual player... there really isn't much left for you now, much that is considered 'relevant' by a fair chunk of the playerbase now anyway.


Are you talking about the gear purchasable with plasm? From what I've seen, if you're on the level to do VW (casual imo), then you can join a plasm farming pt. I've been averaging 3-4k (topping out at 4550) with casual pick up pts. I've gotten nearly 20k plasm in 3 days, just joining random shouts without really actively seeking them out. That being said, I'm not sure I understand exactly what you meant by your first clause in the quoted text above.

But you may be talking about the super weapons. In that case, then yeah, it's going to be quite a while before even the hardcore crowd gets those. So, in that case, I'd say yeah, casuals won't have much of a chance at those for a very long time. But I seriously doubt we'll be seeing those required in pick up shouts any time soon.

What I really love about the Delve loot system, is the fact that almost everything is upgradeable. The casuals will not have the highest level upgrades on armor and weapons as fast as hardcore players, but everyone has something to work towards. I'm sure the hardcore crowd will quickly cap out their gear upgrades and work towards boss drops with their LSs, while casuals still won't necessarily be shut out of as much content as they previously were.

Basically, I see this as the opposite of how you're viewing it. It seems to me like the gulf got smaller. Then again, maybe we just have differing definitions of casual and hardcore.


Edited, May 4th 2013 9:56am by Fermion
#71 May 04 2013 at 8:28 AM Rating: Decent
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Fermion wrote:
Basically, I see this as the opposite of how you're viewing it. It seems to me like the gulf got smaller. Then again, maybe we just have differing definitions of casual and hardcore.


This right here.

I'd have to look again, but I *believe* every single weapon type got two different levels: there's a bought version with plasma (that *ANYONE* can get if you bother trying to get into a shout group for the KI) and a higher version that's either crafted or more than likely available from the interior fractures.

Sure, there's a gap between the weapons but the only thing stopping anyone from getting at least the lesser (but still better than anything previous) weapons is sheer laziness. And getting plasma points via either joining the farming groups (again, anyone can do) or farming the shards yourself and using them (much slower, but again, anyone can do) is much, much less restrictive than going after an R/M/E for the general populace.


Edited, May 4th 2013 10:31am by Viertel
#72 May 04 2013 at 9:17 AM Rating: Decent
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Pawkeshup wrote:
TheBroker wrote:
First of I'm not lazy and I have organized my own ???. You know ???? about me bro.

Secondly there's no need to build an outdated RME. Can if you want. And I have. But it's not needed.

I want nothing to do with you spoiled elitists bull????. I don't need you or your homies acceptance to have "relevance in this thread". All you've done is proven my point. You guys hate that people coming back or are new have an equal shot at getting great items without having to spend months farming, buying gil, or camping NM's for all the "leet" gear. Bunch of spoiled brats I say.

Well deal with it cause there are tons of "noobs" without NNI or any other BS getting this great gear. Deal with it or go play TERA.

Edited, May 4th 2013 12:06am by TheBroker

With "my elistist bullsh*t." You moron, I don't even HAVE an Empy. Your comments ARE irrelevant. The reason people are pissed off has NOTHING to do with their toys being taken away so they aren't the elite anymore. It's the invalidation of all that time and effort spent GETTING the toys. The simple fact is that you are proving your idiocy with each post.

You understand how this game works? No. Obviously not.

OK, let me put this in small words since you didn't watch the video above, didn't read most of this thread, and are either trolling or blazingly incompetent.

The hardcore crowd is a means to getting what the casual crowd wants. SE added +2 armor drops to enemies who drop Empyrean weapon consumables because it would encourage cooperation to help both the player doing the Empyrean and the player needing +2 armor. They WANT us to team up. They WANT us to play together. That's why all the content they've ever made since Abyssea has tried to cater to multiple levels of player.

By basically taking out R/M/E and replacing them with items that the elitist crowd will eventually be able to grind as they have ground out kings, gods, sea, Salvage, and
, they are making the gap between you, you filthy casual you, and them, much more massive.

You talk about having an "equal shot" constantly as if new players are the oppressed @#%^ing masses. Guess what genius, they are at a massive disadvantage. Let me clue you in. You WANT the elitist grinding old content. You WANT them helping lesser people. Ever notice how climbs on VW rarely have a requirement other than show up? Yea, the elitist shouts for the bosses with good drops are because they @#%^ing want people to show up ready. Otherwise, they will take anyone because it doesn't matter.

But killing RME farming means:

- Killing Dynamis
- Killing Assaults
- Killing Salvage
- Killing Einherjar
- Killing Nyzul
- Killing Abyssea +2 farming

So, now, all those new players have to do all that sh*t themselves. They will not have people with the knowledge, experience, and more powerful gear there to assist them. They will have to dig out of that hole themselves. They will have to struggle, and fight, and hope to find people of like mind or very kind, very bored players to help them move forward. Plus, those elite players? Often they are crafters too. If you **** them off, if they leave because SE invalidates their work, then watch how hard it gets to be to find consumables and rare drops they farm in order to feed their habits.

Pissing off the community is never a good idea. You can say "Oh yay now I get to be the man!" But really, you'll be a lone man in a very empty room because everyone else will move to a game that allows them to participate, not one that rips away their time.


Killing dynamis and assaults is one thing, but unless you mean old Nyzul, neo-Nyzul farming won't really be affected. And casuals don't really need hardcores for Nyzul now. And Abyssea +2 farming? How will that die by pissing off those people? People don't need substantial help to the extent they just want mobs for +2 trinkets.

The new content is actually relatively /shout group friendly, barring the hardest mobs in the Fractures. That's about it. All a casual needs is to leech a few KIs, and even then there are at least two mob options for each KI.
#73 May 04 2013 at 1:38 PM Rating: Good
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Fermion wrote:
Tatham wrote:
The gulf between "Casual" and "Hardcore" is now staggeringly huge, completely undoing all of the good work Abyssea and Voidwatch (former in particular) achieved in levelling the field somewhat. Sure, items from Naakual aren't bad but the stuff available to "Hardcore" players through Delve is just so much stupidly better.
If you're a casual player... there really isn't much left for you now, much that is considered 'relevant' by a fair chunk of the playerbase now anyway.


Are you talking about the gear purchasable with plasm? From what I've seen, if you're on the level to do VW (casual imo), then you can join a plasm farming pt. I've been averaging 3-4k (topping out at 4550) with casual pick up pts. I've gotten nearly 20k plasm in 3 days, just joining random shouts without really actively seeking them out. That being said, I'm not sure I understand exactly what you meant by your first clause in the quoted text above.

But you may be talking about the super weapons. In that case, then yeah, it's going to be quite a while before even the hardcore crowd gets those. So, in that case, I'd say yeah, casuals won't have much of a chance at those for a very long time. But I seriously doubt we'll be seeing those required in pick up shouts any time soon.

What I really love about the Delve loot system, is the fact that almost everything is upgradeable. The casuals will not have the highest level upgrades on armor and weapons as fast as hardcore players, but everyone has something to work towards. I'm sure the hardcore crowd will quickly cap out their gear upgrades and work towards boss drops with their LSs, while casuals still won't necessarily be shut out of as much content as they previously were.

Basically, I see this as the opposite of how you're viewing it. It seems to me like the gulf got smaller. Then again, maybe we just have differing definitions of casual and hardcore.


Edited, May 4th 2013 9:56am by Fermion


Your missing a very critical point. You can have 1,000,000 plasm and it won't matter unless you have the KI's to buy the gear, those KI's come from NMs. The first three NMs aren't too terribly difficult, they can be a PITA but generally beatable with 18 people who are semi-competent. The OMGJESUS weapons everyone is complaining about comes from the mega boss KIs which are a nightmare to kill. People are piling SAM/THF's onto turtle Ochain PLDs and killing them in a few hours. These aren't random PUG / scrag groups either but skilled end game groups used to dealing with powerful NMs that eat people for lunch. A ragtag group of casual players in a PUG simply won't stand a chance unless they do something broken like SMN kiting for four+ hours, something SE mentioned they might *fix* soon.

So casuals can indeed get the armor and base tier equipment, good luck ever getting that DMG 200+ weapon unless you have BRD / COR / WHM pimped out and go with a highly skilled group (people always needing support crew).
#74 May 04 2013 at 3:25 PM Rating: Decent
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How is he missing the point? He said in the first two paragraphs you quoted that he was talking about the gear, not the weapons. The weapons will take longer for casuals to get the KI's, but not impossible since I'm also sure a merc market will open for people to leech certain KIs. Also, certain tricks are already being figured out to make certain of the TIer IV-V NM's easier.

Edited, May 4th 2013 5:27pm by Poltergeist27
#75 May 04 2013 at 3:33 PM Rating: Decent
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Hmm, was wondering how long it would take to devolved into "casual vs elitist" with, of course, the "casuals being the one in the wrong".
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#76 May 04 2013 at 3:34 PM Rating: Good
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Just as SE can fix perceived exploits to their mobs, they can fix steep gaps in progression. By their own admission, they feel getting into Skirmish is perhaps too difficult due to how the statue segments work in their rotational drop priority. Basically, if Part A is up in Zone B, you will never see Part A drop if you're in any but B. And when it does drop, it'll next appear in another. But even if they don't improve Skirmish access, they can implement another of baseline synths for weapons of slightly lesser quality to get people more on track for killing the introductory tier of NMs.

I know I made a big stink about the casual and hardcore gap when Delve was first introduced because Legion and Voidwatch was ********** alliance content. Far as some of the mobs go, I'm of the mind they were scaled a bit too high, but there's also the gimmick factor that's still being explored. What seems like a bunch of face-eating NMs requiring all the old guard pros might not be such once the mechanics are out there. Overall, I like the direction SE took with the progression here. There's no going 0/200+ on an NM for a rare drop. You could choose to farm an NM 200 times hoping for it drop something specific from its pool, but only having to kill it once and then having multiple venues of Plasma generation opens up many more venues of progress. Plus you'd probably get the needed plasma long before such an astronomical number of kills anyway. SE also claimed they would weaken these mobs as new tiers arise, but how far away that is from now is still a mystery.

Otherwise, I feel Pawke over-dramatized the need of RMEs, as have others as a cornerstone of the economy. I seem to recall farming +1 papers with other people who wanted other drops from the same NM, no RME mats needed. I see no reason why the same can't apply, or hasn't, for +2s. There were also instances where I simply had bored friends and shellmates pop in to help kill to kill time or maybe to tag another NM after. Additionally, I feel how some went about constructing their RMEs was deemed problematic by SE. Using tradeable currency is certainly a convenience, but it also introduces the ability to distance yourself from associated content. Why spend time farming Dynamis currency when you could farm ADL and buy far more than a day's worth of coins with a single marrow sale? Some might claim they're simply using their time more wisely, but this also segues back into the time sink and difficulty argument. Seems to me simply getting done ASAP to reap the benefits was the goal, not the challenge of it.

Just as RME currency seems pushed aside, I see new items poised to take their place. The items to add Rank Points to the new armor are in demand, and will remain so as long as SE utilizes the RP system. Casuals will need it to add a few levels to their gear so they can better tackle the new nasties. Hardcores will still want to R15 their stuff. You're not locked to, or even a committed to a substantial time block like daily Dynamis to do this. Farm 4k in an hour with a casual group. Farm 30k in a day if you're able. S'all good. Those with fat wallets can still buy their way into the upgrade paths, but long term, these items are likely going to be in even bigger demand. There's also the crafted weapons that will eventually trickle into the game, but also lose value once newer and better stuff arrives. If people wanna pay the Gotta Have It Now Tax, let them. I'm also of the mind the more SE distances themselves from the ability to simply throw gil at a problem, the better. Not everyone bot fished rusty caps back in the day or even basic fish now. Not everyone AFK cruor farmed. Hell, not everyone swiped a credit card during IGE christmas. Nor does everyone run multiple accounts, which made farming the past events easier to do. Gil is still a powerful resource, sure, but now it seems like players don't need as much of it to get into the game, nor must they absolutely spend months in dated content just to partake in the new if they're smart about it.

So, there's some growing pains and rage now, sure, but I think FFXI will be better off for it. Honestly, the only reason why I haven't come back is because I still feel SE has a lot of needed job adjustments to handle.
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