Long ago, players would grind tirelessly-- killing crabs, toucans and other squishy, non-threatening animals for the purpose of gaining experience, and later, limit points. When the time came for you to go to work, sleep, or your toes became too cold, you could always (not always) count on other players somewhere in the world who were flagged "LFG" waiting to replace you-- either fishing/crafting, farming for gil, or standing around complaining to their linkshell about how long they've been LFG... or so the legend says.
With the advent of Job Points, we are beginning to see a resurgence of the old 6-person exp-party. They are struggling, however. It can be difficult reaching enough people with /yell. I often find myself busy with something in my mog garden, or some area outside of /yell's reach, wondering what I might be missing. Today I thought, "what if I put my flag up?" I tired typing /sea all inv and was disappointed, but not surprised that no one else was seeking an invite. I wondered then if anyone would notice my LFG status in this day and age where it is no longer used.
Wouldn't it be kind of nice if we could do that again? It doesn't have to be just for CP parties, either. We could flag up and put whatever we like in our search comments. I think if enough people tried, without even expecting an invite, perhaps we could bring them back.
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Galkaman wrote:
Kuwoobie will die crushed under the burden of his mediocrity.
Reading this post literally breaks my heart. FFXI has become a console game with a subscription fee.
Arguably, part of the problem is the fact you can't farm CP/JPs on one job for another. I technically approve of this as a sort of enforcement to goad people into actually playing said jobs, but this doesn't really solve the problem of limited support players or encouraging others into the thankless role. There's also the inevitable concern of how "required" these are going to become as time goes on, more categories get added, and caps possibly get raised to as much as 30. There's really no denying someone who has maxed everything is potentially more effective than someone who hasn't, which just invites job discrimination anew.
Realistically, going back to the olden days just isn't going to happen. Instead of trying to force people back into that, the ability to gain decent CP/JP needs to be increased in what would be considered current endgame activities. That would mean mobs in Dynamis giving them out. Abyssea mobs would also do the same once you're 99, and SE could maybe even add an additional light to red chests. All the revamped BCs need to put out, scaling with difficulty. Voidwatch, WoE, Nyzul, Salvage, Campaign, and Limbus, too. Simply grinding Adoulin mobs isn't really a good option for a lot of jobs, nor can one rely on other events like Delve or Skirmish. Should SE actually expect our characters to grow, and ideally multiple jobs, the grip on this form of progression needs loosened. Having people better spread out over multiple activities also avoids the old TP burn situations where camps get taken and/or fought over, with no one really winning. In the end, yes, parties should still be possible and good on payouts, but not the only path.
Realistically, going back to the olden days just isn't going to happen. Instead of trying to force people back into that, the ability to gain decent CP/JP needs to be increased in what would be considered current endgame activities. That would mean mobs in Dynamis giving them out. Abyssea mobs would also do the same once you're 99, and SE could maybe even add an additional light to red chests. All the revamped BCs need to put out, scaling with difficulty. Voidwatch, WoE, Nyzul, Salvage, Campaign, and Limbus, too. Simply grinding Adoulin mobs isn't really a good option for a lot of jobs, nor can one rely on other events like Delve or Skirmish. Should SE actually expect our characters to grow, and ideally multiple jobs, the grip on this form of progression needs loosened. Having people better spread out over multiple activities also avoids the old TP burn situations where camps get taken and/or fought over, with no one really winning. In the end, yes, parties should still be possible and good on payouts, but not the only path.
Violence good. Sexy bad. Yay America.
ChaChaJaJa wrote:
FFXI has become a console game with a subscription fee.
Yes.... as opposed to when it *wasn't* a console game with a subscription fee?
o wait
Experiences tend to look better retrospectively. The only thing that we need to have from the past is the player population. The complaint before was that everything was group oriented and not favorable towards casual players. The game is more like what we wanted, just years too late. Unless the population comes back, I don't see any major changes altering the overall experience.
I originally left before the level sync option was implemented. That alone would have solved so many problems back then.
I actually liked the slow grind to the top with other players. Call me a ****** if you want. (WUT, it filters s-a-d-i-s-t? WHY? XD)
Like I've said before, I had every job to 37 before level sync and FoV even came out. You were forced into parties with other players, and you generally had to gear in an acceptable manner to perform well and be accepted by your peers. My performance mattered. People took note of this, and I would get invited back for how good I was as a player. I would often form friendships, mini-static groups, etc.
This was *THE* main attraction to the game for me. I don't care if it wasn't for you, or if wasn't for them. I am not wrong for liking what I like. Abyssea didn't even completely kill this for me, because everyone didn't leech jobs to cap from 30. It actually freed up a lot of camps, which made it kinda nice. Hell, I didn't even go to standard camps anyway.
I just can't play this anymore. Maybe if I had people to play with, it would be a little different.
Edited, Feb 9th 2015 10:49am by Zafire
Like I've said before, I had every job to 37 before level sync and FoV even came out. You were forced into parties with other players, and you generally had to gear in an acceptable manner to perform well and be accepted by your peers. My performance mattered. People took note of this, and I would get invited back for how good I was as a player. I would often form friendships, mini-static groups, etc.
This was *THE* main attraction to the game for me. I don't care if it wasn't for you, or if wasn't for them. I am not wrong for liking what I like. Abyssea didn't even completely kill this for me, because everyone didn't leech jobs to cap from 30. It actually freed up a lot of camps, which made it kinda nice. Hell, I didn't even go to standard camps anyway.
I just can't play this anymore. Maybe if I had people to play with, it would be a little different.
Edited, Feb 9th 2015 10:49am by Zafire
Hume male, Zafire, Server: Sylph
50DNC, 50SMN, 50BRD, 50SAM, 50DRG, 50WHM, 52THF, 52COR, 52MNK, 58BST, 60WAR, 67PLD, 69PUP, 75RNG, 75SCH, 75BLM, 80NIN, 80DRK, 85BLU, 85RDM
Retired since February 2011.
All SJ's capped for LVL99!
50DNC, 50SMN, 50BRD, 50SAM, 50DRG, 50WHM, 52THF, 52COR, 52MNK, 58BST, 60WAR, 67PLD, 69PUP, 75RNG, 75SCH, 75BLM, 80NIN, 80DRK, 85BLU, 85RDM
Retired since February 2011.
All SJ's capped for LVL99!
I agree with Zafire. Everything I loved about this game is everything people seemed to enjoy complaining about for the longest time; the reliance on other players and the presence of goals ranging from casual to way too big for any casual to undertake.
Now that SE has bowed to the will of the masses and made the game what people begged for, everyone has quit because it sucks. They gave us exactly what most people were asking for and now we reap what we sewed. This game used to be unique in its nature, now it's just like every other formulaic MMO. Grind a bunch of casual content with other people who are doing the same, get your stuff, and move on to the next event. Good job everyone.
Sorry, is my bitterness showing again?
Now that SE has bowed to the will of the masses and made the game what people begged for, everyone has quit because it sucks. They gave us exactly what most people were asking for and now we reap what we sewed. This game used to be unique in its nature, now it's just like every other formulaic MMO. Grind a bunch of casual content with other people who are doing the same, get your stuff, and move on to the next event. Good job everyone.
Sorry, is my bitterness showing again?
Pergatory wrote:
ow that SE has bowed to the will of the masses and made the game what people begged for, everyone has quit because it sucks.
You got that backwards. People quit BEFORE the implementations, those changes are the game's lifelines. It's kind of hard to have a game requiring 6 solid characters when they don't exist. Abyssea (and forward) created an environment where people could still play in a low populated game. Giving people what they always wanted kept people playing. Think of it as a liquidation sale.
Yeah, the biggest flaw in enforcing party participation is there actually being people around to party with when you want to. Even when this was more "the thing" with XI, you'd still hear tales of the DRG LFG for 10+ hours without an invite or groups never getting off the ground because a RDM/BRD/whatever never popped.
I'd argue solo progression took more root with Campaign, but that's not entirely accurate since anyone could join battles at will. Stuff like books and Abyssea were more an acknowledgement of the trend that the game was now top-heavy and newcomers or late-adopters needed a hand. Making the limit breaks easier serve as another example of this, since most common people didn't really have a reason to farm the Papyrus dropping mobs. Mold could've maybe been snagged EXPing in CN or the coal from soloing BSTs if you're lucky, but it kinda only went downhill from there with Xarc NMs.
For all my casual crusading I do, however, I should perhaps emphasize I'm not seeking quick and easy. Slow and steady is just as good as long as it's done well. Unfortunately, MMOs ARE top-heavy, endgame environments. How fast one gets to max level doesn't change that. Eventually the EXP will tick up, and as long as you actively play, you'll wind up in the same place. The important thing is what you can do from there, and despite XI's shallow, yet broad content depth, I'd still assert it not enough for the person who can't reliably land 5+ other players to do things with. I don't care if that's grinding CP/JP or trying to 119 AF at a reasonable pace. Both are important as manifestations of progression.
I'd argue solo progression took more root with Campaign, but that's not entirely accurate since anyone could join battles at will. Stuff like books and Abyssea were more an acknowledgement of the trend that the game was now top-heavy and newcomers or late-adopters needed a hand. Making the limit breaks easier serve as another example of this, since most common people didn't really have a reason to farm the Papyrus dropping mobs. Mold could've maybe been snagged EXPing in CN or the coal from soloing BSTs if you're lucky, but it kinda only went downhill from there with Xarc NMs.
For all my casual crusading I do, however, I should perhaps emphasize I'm not seeking quick and easy. Slow and steady is just as good as long as it's done well. Unfortunately, MMOs ARE top-heavy, endgame environments. How fast one gets to max level doesn't change that. Eventually the EXP will tick up, and as long as you actively play, you'll wind up in the same place. The important thing is what you can do from there, and despite XI's shallow, yet broad content depth, I'd still assert it not enough for the person who can't reliably land 5+ other players to do things with. I don't care if that's grinding CP/JP or trying to 119 AF at a reasonable pace. Both are important as manifestations of progression.
Violence good. Sexy bad. Yay America.
#11Zafire,
Posted: Feb 10 2015 at 12:15 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) They still could have forced parties with less population.
Zafire wrote:
They still could have forced parties with less population.
They never needed to make FoV/GoV repeatable non-stop. They never had to make Abyssea enter-able at 30.
Example of how this could work: Require a minimum of three people in the group before trusts could be summoned. Trusts would lower overall experience as if another person was in the party. Players are obviously superior to trusts in every way, so it isn't like people would prefer trusts. Post-75, they could be summoned solo and wouldn't lower experience. I also think Abyssea should've been minimum level 66 (Or is it 65? Like Dynamis. Can't remember. Whatever.)
This would have eliminated the need to need specific jobs to form a party and only require half the needed amount of people as prior to do so. 10-65 still would've been somewhat of a chore, then you would "move on" to better times.
Doing what they did killed the game for anybody who liked standard EXP parties.
They never needed to make FoV/GoV repeatable non-stop. They never had to make Abyssea enter-able at 30.
Example of how this could work: Require a minimum of three people in the group before trusts could be summoned. Trusts would lower overall experience as if another person was in the party. Players are obviously superior to trusts in every way, so it isn't like people would prefer trusts. Post-75, they could be summoned solo and wouldn't lower experience. I also think Abyssea should've been minimum level 66 (Or is it 65? Like Dynamis. Can't remember. Whatever.)
This would have eliminated the need to need specific jobs to form a party and only require half the needed amount of people as prior to do so. 10-65 still would've been somewhat of a chore, then you would "move on" to better times.
Doing what they did killed the game for anybody who liked standard EXP parties.
Reality: People would then attempt to shout for a full 6-man party. It would rarely fill up. People would quit because they can't do anything.
Welcome to how the history of FFXI already went.
SirEaglestrike wrote:
Zafire wrote:
They still could have forced parties with less population.
They never needed to make FoV/GoV repeatable non-stop. They never had to make Abyssea enter-able at 30.
Example of how this could work: Require a minimum of three people in the group before trusts could be summoned. Trusts would lower overall experience as if another person was in the party. Players are obviously superior to trusts in every way, so it isn't like people would prefer trusts. Post-75, they could be summoned solo and wouldn't lower experience. I also think Abyssea should've been minimum level 66 (Or is it 65? Like Dynamis. Can't remember. Whatever.)
This would have eliminated the need to need specific jobs to form a party and only require half the needed amount of people as prior to do so. 10-65 still would've been somewhat of a chore, then you would "move on" to better times.
Doing what they did killed the game for anybody who liked standard EXP parties.
They never needed to make FoV/GoV repeatable non-stop. They never had to make Abyssea enter-able at 30.
Example of how this could work: Require a minimum of three people in the group before trusts could be summoned. Trusts would lower overall experience as if another person was in the party. Players are obviously superior to trusts in every way, so it isn't like people would prefer trusts. Post-75, they could be summoned solo and wouldn't lower experience. I also think Abyssea should've been minimum level 66 (Or is it 65? Like Dynamis. Can't remember. Whatever.)
This would have eliminated the need to need specific jobs to form a party and only require half the needed amount of people as prior to do so. 10-65 still would've been somewhat of a chore, then you would "move on" to better times.
Doing what they did killed the game for anybody who liked standard EXP parties.
Reality: People would then attempt to shout for a full 6-man party. It would rarely fill up. People would quit because they can't do anything.
Welcome to how the history of FFXI already went.
And instead of sitting around doing nothing, you could summon trusts and steamroll through VT's. It still would be faster than it used to be, with double EXP and all. Trusts tank and heal through VT's no problem. There isn't a reason why it wouldn't work or why it couldn't work.
They just catered to the casual playerbase, and that's cool. It's just sad (to me), is all.
Edited, Feb 10th 2015 1:43am by Zafire
Hume male, Zafire, Server: Sylph
50DNC, 50SMN, 50BRD, 50SAM, 50DRG, 50WHM, 52THF, 52COR, 52MNK, 58BST, 60WAR, 67PLD, 69PUP, 75RNG, 75SCH, 75BLM, 80NIN, 80DRK, 85BLU, 85RDM
Retired since February 2011.
All SJ's capped for LVL99!
50DNC, 50SMN, 50BRD, 50SAM, 50DRG, 50WHM, 52THF, 52COR, 52MNK, 58BST, 60WAR, 67PLD, 69PUP, 75RNG, 75SCH, 75BLM, 80NIN, 80DRK, 85BLU, 85RDM
Retired since February 2011.
All SJ's capped for LVL99!
What trusts are tanking VT's np? In a CP party it's as fast as meripo's on colibri, probably a bit faster with the right group, and bats die in seconds. There is no "tank" in such a situation. And trusts are useless as DD's in such a party already, they'd need to be buffed majorly.
Trusts allow people to hop on and play the game. That's something that'll keep people around much longer than expecting them to not play unless they can find two other people to do anything. You'd be ruining the biggest effect of the entire content, and destroying what makes it effective at keeping people in the game. It's a bad idea.
Trusts allow people to hop on and play the game. That's something that'll keep people around much longer than expecting them to not play unless they can find two other people to do anything. You'd be ruining the biggest effect of the entire content, and destroying what makes it effective at keeping people in the game. It's a bad idea.
Zafire wrote:
They never needed to make FoV/GoV repeatable non-stop.
Zafire wrote:
They never had to make Abyssea enter-able at 30.
Zafire wrote:
Example of how this could work: Require a minimum of three people in the group before trusts could be summoned. Trusts would lower overall experience as if another person was in the party. Players are obviously superior to trusts in every way, so it isn't like people would prefer trusts. Post-75, they could be summoned solo and wouldn't lower experience.
zafire wrote:
This would have eliminated the need to need specific jobs to form a party and only require half the needed amount of people as prior to do so.
zafire wrote:
Doing what they did killed the game for anybody who liked standard EXP parties
Quote:
I missed how you came to this conclusion. Can you reiterate how your solution removes the need for specific jobs?
I'm going to venture a guess he meant that instead of parties failing to get started due to lack of, say, a healer, a trust could fill in the gap by letting the group spawn a healer. End scenario, given what we know of trusts now, is that everyone would pretty much play DPS classes since DPS trusts aren't too hot. Support trusts aren't much better, but they can at least be dismissed and re-summoned for a quick-ish MP refill. The failings of the tank trusts are more a result of the game's enmity system, which affects actual tanks, too.
And while I see where he's coming from by suggesting the 3+ person idea, it still isn't going to change much. Even if I had to run back to a book each time, there's a good chance I'd still prefer to solo for a guaranteed 3-4k/hr on a lower-leveled job (perhaps /BST) instead of flagging up and hoping for the best. Actually, probably the largest issue with trusts at present is you cannot have yourself set LFG with them summoned.
There's also what I feel nurtures some resentment with some when partying is too strictly enforced. "It's an MMO, you're supposed to play with others!" some might think, but there are actually more ways for players to interact than actually being in the same party. Instead of elaborating down that path, I'll instead say that not everyone is looking to make their next best friend. If it happens, sweet. If not, try not to feel bad about being mutually used for the sake of some progression. Yes, that's exactly what partying is to some, cynical as it may sound. And for those subsequently fed up with unreasonable standards, trash talking, and other juvenile internet behavior, I can't personally fault someone for not wanting to play babysitter with their entertainment. This doesn't doom them to being bad players or even being anti-social, they just value their time in a different manner. Sure, some may try to argue cross-server LFG tools encourage bad behavior, but I think a lot us XI vets could be honest in saying it really doesn't change anything, especially when the problem party is a server hop and name change away from a clean slate. Some even THRIVED on being e-infamous.
In the end, I'll just default to the belief that the more options a player has, the better. Some will inherently be more popular, yes, but that doesn't always make the not-so-popular ones bad. Reasons to prevent any hypothetical option from being implemented, however, should not be rooted in prestige, the cousin of exclusivity and anathema to versatility.
Violence good. Sexy bad. Yay America.
At this point Zafire's throwing around "casual" and "You can't tell me it won't work!" as if it somehow makes his stance actually worth being a part of. When the text equivalent of temper tantrums and insulting's thrown around you can pretty much ignore their contributions because there's no logic, reasoning, or common sense behind it.
Fact of the matter is people have tried for almost four years to bring this mythical resurgance of love, happiness, and enjoyment of gaming with forcing 6 man parties.
It fails every. single. time.
If you can't understand why the attempt fails and why it's always GOING to fail for the sole purpose of grinding mobs (not for loot, not for dungeons, just pure grinding) then frankly we don't have anything to discuss because you clearly aren't thinking.
Fact of the matter is people have tried for almost four years to bring this mythical resurgance of love, happiness, and enjoyment of gaming with forcing 6 man parties.
It fails every. single. time.
If you can't understand why the attempt fails and why it's always GOING to fail for the sole purpose of grinding mobs (not for loot, not for dungeons, just pure grinding) then frankly we don't have anything to discuss because you clearly aren't thinking.
Almalieque wrote:
You got that backwards. People quit BEFORE the implementations, those changes are the game's lifelines. It's kind of hard to have a game requiring 6 solid characters when they don't exist. Abyssea (and forward) created an environment where people could still play in a low populated game. Giving people what they always wanted kept people playing. Think of it as a liquidation sale.
I don't know how it was on your server, but Asura didn't start to wane in its population until the later half of the Abyssea era, and the Voidwatch era. Abyssea & Voidwatch are what marked the beginning of the decline, not a slowing of the loss as you suggest. They were the first steps down the path we're on right now. I see them as directly responsible for the game's decline.
Newer content is all just more voidwatch. "Everybody wins" content. No loot sharing, everyone gets their own drops. No helping other people now, just helping yourself. The very nature of the game has changed and Voidwatch was the first step in that direction. Abyssea was similar in how it's both low-man and drops are common enough that it's basically the same: self-serving. You can take 3 people to beat an event, and all 3 people can be after 3 different things, and all 3 things can drop from the same enemy. Events can be done without one person helping another. That's the crux of the issue in my opinion. That's the lynchpin that made this game what it was back in the day, that you didn't just benefit from the selfless help of others but relied upon it. That's gone now.
Pergatory wrote:
I don't know how it was on your server, but Asura didn't start to wane in its population until the later half of the Abyssea era, and the Voidwatch era. Abyssea & Voidwatch are what marked the beginning of the decline, not a slowing of the loss as you suggest. They were the first steps down the path we're on right now. I see them as directly responsible for the game's decline..
You were on one of the lucky servers. Carbuncle was becoming a desolate wasteland mid/late WoTG period and became almost impossible to form experience parties. It would not be uncommon for there to be three people on the entire server looking for group, of which at least one was looking for merit parties. It took forever to get anything started, and it made for a terrible gaming experience.
http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/profile.xml?73417
It would be nice to see actual numbers. It seems like everyone has different experiences. I had no trouble finding exp parties, or making them up until Abyssea on my server (Ragnarok). My LSs all basically turned completely empty when Abyssea came though. A few came back after a couple of level cap raises just to try it out, but quickly quit again. After the Abyssea era was over I never saw a single person from my friends list or LSs.
Pergatory wrote:
Almalieque wrote:
You got that backwards. People quit BEFORE the implementations, those changes are the game's lifelines. It's kind of hard to have a game requiring 6 solid characters when they don't exist. Abyssea (and forward) created an environment where people could still play in a low populated game. Giving people what they always wanted kept people playing. Think of it as a liquidation sale.
I don't know how it was on your server, but Asura didn't start to wane in its population until the later half of the Abyssea era, and the Voidwatch era. Abyssea & Voidwatch are what marked the beginning of the decline, not a slowing of the loss as you suggest. They were the first steps down the path we're on right now. I see them as directly responsible for the game's decline.
I came back in the abyssea era. Why? Because I saw happy players emoting about how they could level jobs they always wanted to play but couldn't stomach soloing for ages. As much as people whine now about how Abyssea made everyone burn their jobs up from 30, it was actually hard as a new player. Abyssea wasn't actually available for most people, and there was no repeatable FOV/GoV, so basically I spent all my time soloing or duoing. It was really painful, and slow it almost drove me away. Luckily I met some folks who helped me get started in Abyssea. I entered as a 65 BST and capped from there.
After that point I had a great time. When GOV books first went repeatable, there was parties for the first time in ages in places like the citadel and the nest.
Sorry but no one was really leveling in parties well before repeatable books and before trusts. As Viertel said, people have been trying to start "old school" linkshells for ages. The interest isn't there. I don't mind doing an old school party once in awhile but only as a lark. It's not viable as the only leveling method, and frankly if it was the only way to level this game would be even worse off. There simply aren't enough lower level players to make it work.
I think you guys may have misunderstood what I was trying to say. I wasn't insulting the game itself, I was lamenting the absolute lack of people playing now. I'm actually re-subbed (for what, the sixth time now?) and I'm enjoying myself. I tried to like FFXIV but it's just WOW with FF skin. Not for me. Since I've re-subbed to XI I've been pleasantly surprised by all the QoL enhancements they've made including Mog Wardrobe helping gear-swaps, ease of movement via homepoints and journals (I don't have 25 mins to run to the Boyhada Tree now like I did when I was in college) and the ability to solo older content with the help of trusts.
The part that makes me sad is that it's a ghostland of what it once was. It makes me sad to run through the dunes or qufim island and not see young-uns getting screwdrivered or stonega'd. I miss joining the fun random shout to help a returning player do genkai. It bums me out that when I shouted as a returning player for a social linkshell I was met with chat silence. In past returns I had 4 offers via /tell after the first shout! This time it took a half hour to get a response.
So they've made the game tremendously more user-friendly for me as a grown up and I still love it like I've never loved any game before. Nothing else has ever even come close. But without other people to play it with, it will still lack that last little kernal of adventure. I used to feel lucky when I was out and about and saw an NM. Now I see them everywhere- because there's no one around to kill them anymore...
The part that makes me sad is that it's a ghostland of what it once was. It makes me sad to run through the dunes or qufim island and not see young-uns getting screwdrivered or stonega'd. I miss joining the fun random shout to help a returning player do genkai. It bums me out that when I shouted as a returning player for a social linkshell I was met with chat silence. In past returns I had 4 offers via /tell after the first shout! This time it took a half hour to get a response.
So they've made the game tremendously more user-friendly for me as a grown up and I still love it like I've never loved any game before. Nothing else has ever even come close. But without other people to play it with, it will still lack that last little kernal of adventure. I used to feel lucky when I was out and about and saw an NM. Now I see them everywhere- because there's no one around to kill them anymore...
Pergatory wrote:
You can take 3 people to beat an event, and all 3 people can be after 3 different things, and all 3 things can drop from the same enemy. Events can be done without one person helping another. That's the crux of the issue in my opinion.
This seems contradictory. One person IS being helped by two others to get what they're after. The key difference, however, is that the 2 others are also getting their cut. Prior had us seeing situations like an alliance taking on Khimaira just to get a crappy horn drop, maybe a tail for something sorta AHable. Hautclaire was the goal for your PLDs with Owleyes as the mage boobie prize. Incessantly sacrificing time for others wasn't really what really made the game good for many, as the return on that investment was a giant gamble if the LS imploded or cliques did what cliques do. I certainly don't miss the days of people in the LS I was in saying I didn't deserve something in large part because I didn't happen to play at the same time they regularly did. They knew nothing of what I did with other members at different times or really cared about my near-perfect Dynamis/Einherjar attendance, working with inter-LS Assault/Nyzul/Salvage/Limbus groups, etc.. It was just a giant ******* case of, "What have you done for ME lately?!" when the big picture should've been making the LS collectively stronger, especially if that someone wasn't just a one-job-wonder like a few of my... detractors.
And while them hating on me made things more of a pain in the *** than it needed to be, I can't much fault them for being greedy in their own way. They were victims of the system the game fostered. Get while the getting is good because tomorrow was never a sure thing. Abyssea was far more fair in making certain effort got rewarded in the short term, with long term output coming in the form of +2 sets, Emps, atmas, and other incidentals. VW/Legion backpedaled on this, favoring RNG far too heavily. Delve was a step back in the right direction with the KI/Currency system, as building toward one item could never be "lost" due to player politics. Unfortunately, players getting the currency after the rush is where current issue lies since it's still pretty much a matter of finding 5+ others or GTFO. For those who can't pull this off, there's not much of a relevant XI endgame at the moment unless you multi-box or happen to like daily Dynamis for whatever pitiable reason. And this is why I'll continue to rail on CP/JP gains since they could at least make lesser content a bit more bearable.
Violence good. Sexy bad. Yay America.
Pergatory wrote:
I don't know how it was on your server, but Asura didn't start to wane in its population until the later half of the Abyssea era, and the Voidwatch era. Abyssea & Voidwatch are what marked the beginning of the decline, not a slowing of the loss as you suggest. They were the first steps down the path we're on right now. I see them as directly responsible for the game's decline.
I'm on Asura as well. Maybe I should rephrase my statement. The game had long transitioned from the moment of having a scrolling screen of shouts. Those moments ONLY happened with patches and expansions. Whether you want to admit it or not, those updates kept the game alive. There was not a loss of people when Abyssea was released, but an increase of player participation.
Pergatory wrote:
Newer content is all just more voidwatch. "Everybody wins" content. No loot sharing, everyone gets their own drops. No helping other people now, just helping yourself. The very nature of the game has changed and Voidwatch was the first step in that direction. Abyssea was similar in how it's both low-man and drops are common enough that it's basically the same: self-serving. You can take 3 people to beat an event, and all 3 people can be after 3 different things, and all 3 things can drop from the same enemy. Events can be done without one person helping another. That's the crux of the issue in my opinion. That's the lynchpin that made this game what it was back in the day, that you didn't just benefit from the selfless help of others but relied upon it. That's gone now.
Your "problem" is the desired solution for many.
Time Sinks suck. There are several ways to keep people involved without literally wasting time. Why not have everyone get their own drops? When have players ever genuinely helped others without wanting something in return? Being able to work towards a realistic goal makes the game more exciting. Why in the world would you prefer the old Dynamis over the new Dynamis? That was just wasting people's time and currency.
No one is making you play Voidwatch, I've never even touched it. I think that's part of your problem, there is so much in this game that you don't have to participate in every new concept. If you don't like it, then don't do it.
With Unity, I want the option of helping out without getting a cut. I want to be able to participate without having to spend accolades or get a drop. If 5 people have enough accolades for 10 fights but one person only has enough for 7, I want to be able to do 10 fights at full strength.
Philemon on Valefor
Gjallarhorn 4/17/08
Daurdabla 5/9/11
Carnwenhan 5/4/12
Ryunohige 10/29/12
Gjallarhorn 4/17/08
Daurdabla 5/9/11
Carnwenhan 5/4/12
Ryunohige 10/29/12
Viertel wrote:
At this point Zafire's throwing around "casual" and "You can't tell me it won't work!" as if it somehow makes his stance actually worth being a part of. When the text equivalent of temper tantrums and insulting's thrown around you can pretty much ignore their contributions because there's no logic, reasoning, or common sense behind it.
Fact of the matter is people have tried for almost four years to bring this mythical resurgance of love, happiness, and enjoyment of gaming with forcing 6 man parties.
It fails every. single. time.
If you can't understand why the attempt fails and why it's always GOING to fail for the sole purpose of grinding mobs (not for loot, not for dungeons, just pure grinding) then frankly we don't have anything to discuss because you clearly aren't thinking.
Fact of the matter is people have tried for almost four years to bring this mythical resurgance of love, happiness, and enjoyment of gaming with forcing 6 man parties.
It fails every. single. time.
If you can't understand why the attempt fails and why it's always GOING to fail for the sole purpose of grinding mobs (not for loot, not for dungeons, just pure grinding) then frankly we don't have anything to discuss because you clearly aren't thinking.
I'm not saying it would or wouldn't work. I was just giving a way they wouldn't "have to" eliminate parties completely. FFXI catered to (mostly) hardcore gamers and was at it's peak in 2006. When, well, grouping up was a thing.
I have no idea what you speak of with "insulting's" and "no logic". I was giving a way there would be a grind to 66~ with "3-man parties" and then it would pretty much be Abyssea until cap. There is a grind in every MMO. Even in WoW, the most casual-friendly game of all time, it takes longer to hit cap than it does in FFXI. It's way too easy right now.
FFXI was released with the theme of parties being your means to level and getting just about everything done in the game. That theme appealed to me. They did NOT have to completely eliminate that theme like they did. They are eliminating an aspect of the game, I don't feel that's a good thing.
The whole game is endgame right now, with nothing to really do in between. I have never played another MMO that is like that. FFXI used to be the strongest one in that category, too.
Hume male, Zafire, Server: Sylph
50DNC, 50SMN, 50BRD, 50SAM, 50DRG, 50WHM, 52THF, 52COR, 52MNK, 58BST, 60WAR, 67PLD, 69PUP, 75RNG, 75SCH, 75BLM, 80NIN, 80DRK, 85BLU, 85RDM
Retired since February 2011.
All SJ's capped for LVL99!
50DNC, 50SMN, 50BRD, 50SAM, 50DRG, 50WHM, 52THF, 52COR, 52MNK, 58BST, 60WAR, 67PLD, 69PUP, 75RNG, 75SCH, 75BLM, 80NIN, 80DRK, 85BLU, 85RDM
Retired since February 2011.
All SJ's capped for LVL99!
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