Let's go skill-up, shall we?Follow

I was in a skillup party tonight, and after analyzing the different players and what they were doing, I suddenly realized that some people have no idea how a skill party works or how it differs from a EXP party. I want to share some of this knowledge with you.

I have skilled up several weapons. I have nine weapons over 200 skill currently, and I have completed five WSNM quests. I won't consider myself an authority on skilling, but since my DRK had a real hard time getting invites, I had alot of skill parties double as mediocre EXP parties, so I kinda have enough experience to know what works and what doesn't.

I'm not going to tell you WHERE to skill up. That's for another post. I'm simply going to explain concepts of what to do in skill parties to get the most skill with the least hassle.

Assembling your group
One of the biggest and most common mistakes I see is a group that is ill-made. You can't just throw a bunch of random jobs together and skill effectively. Skill parties need certain jobs to function at their best, and subjobs tend to be a little different than normal.

Proper Skill: The #1 thing to remember is that not everyone knows what skill levels Steelshells are good for. If you get a RDM and they have a weapon with 100 skill they want to use on Steelshells, they will get discouraged when they get no skill in 5 fights and they will leave. That's bad. Make sure your party understands the approximate skill levels that you are going for. 100-150, 150-200, 200+, whatever. Make sure you understand what skill levels certain mobs cap at, and what levels are too low. Shouting for "boyahda tree" is vague since there's a wide range of skill levels there. Make sure your shout includes the approximate skill range.

Location: Make sure your planned spot isn't too busy. Steelshell camps at the waterfall and tree can support two parties comfortably, a third can sorta squeeze in, but not more. Be aware of alternate camps you can find the mobs you want to skill on (drop down the waterfall when you first enter the tree room, there's usually Steelshells down there all over the place!) and don't be afraid to send /tells to people at the zones you want to go to and find out what the situation is.

Numbers: One problem I see alot is skill parties that are too big or too small. 14 people do not make a good skill group. The rule of thumb is to keep the party small but functional. If the mobs last 30 seconds, it's no good. If they are almost killing people every fight because there's no healing, that's no good either.

DD's: The root of a skill party, you're bound to have any number of WAR's, DRK's, MNK's, whatever. Warriors can skill up many different weapons to WSNM levels, and Dark Knights can level a surprising number as well. In most cases, DD's should be subbing /NIN, unless there's some special case why they can't. The key to quick skilling is to reduce downtime from not taking damage and with /NIN you can wield two weapons for increased skill potential! Some people may like DD's to sub /WHM, which can be ok if you are skilling a 2-handed weapon or otherwise feel the curing potential is better than what you'd get with /NIN.

Mages: One overlooked skill party faux pas is expecting mages to be..well.. mages. In EXP parties the WHM hides in the back and cures and dias and paralyzes and all that good stuff. In skill parties they are in fact DD's and they are up close and personal right alongside the Warriors and Monks. Mages are in skill parties *usually* to level up weapons like staves and clubs, so they don't want to spend 90% of every fight healing. Ironically it's best to overload skill parties with mages, so you can reduce their individual healing responsibilities so they can use their weapons more.

Tanks: Tanks are.. tanks. They still need to tank, so they still need to be ready to flash or cure or provoke or whatever. While the mobs may not be particularly deadly to anyone in the short term, keeping hate on the person with highest DEF will reduce downtime. Skill parties need tanks, please don't try to make the DRK be the tank cuz they will look at you like this: o.O and then I will leave.. er.. *they* will leave.

Levels: Skill parties are often fighting stuff that is lower than Incredibly Tough to a L75. Still, you don't want to go in underlevelled. A L52 Warrior won't be able to contribute much against say, Steelshells. They also become a big liability since they will take more damage from AoE that would otherwise barely dent a L75. Make sure you understand the mobs your skill party will be facing, and only take people who have the job and skill levels to be fighting those mobs.

Gear: Skilling is one place where pride in your gear has to go out the window. I've been in many skill parties where L75's are sporting all their regular EXP gear, and the DD's just plow through mobs in 30 seconds because they are wearing +40 STR and +60 attack gear. You don't want to do this! The entire idea of skilling is for the mob to last AS LONG AS POSSIBLE. The longer the mob lasts, the less mobs you need to find, and the more skill you can get in crowded areas. Mages should concentrate on mild amounts of attack bonuses, so they can get more than 0 points on a hit (can't get skill on 0 damage attacks anymore) and DD's should keep their attack even lower. One place to invest heavily is accuracy. You WANT accuracy, tons of it. You simply can't have enough. Every swing should hit and count so you can get skillups. Weapons are another point here. You want moderate weapons with low delay and low damage, with any accuracy bonuses possible.

My DRK profile in my sig is a fairly good setup for skilling. I really should replace the hauberk with a scorpion harness, I just haven't made that investment yet.

One point here is if you have the inventory space, bring a couple of pieces of your better gear "just incase".. There are times when you get a link or something you can't really handle in gimpy skilling gear, and it's good to be able to bust out some better firepower if needed.

ETC: Oils, powders, warp item, shihei, juices, whatever. Skill party downtime is usually minimal if done right, but it's good to be able to keep it moving and to not overburden the mages. Remember: if someone feels they are not getting skill, they will leave. You don't want this to be a crucial member of the group.

At the battlefield

One key point when fighting is to understand every player's needs. Some people are skilling, some are doing trial weapons or those "unlockable latent" weapons like Destroyers. These people will have skillchain needs, and you should try to accomodate them as best as possible.

One good thing to do is to find a low-damage skillchain. If you can get away with L2 chains like Fusion or Gravitation, you can usually find a chain that looks crappy on the surface but that's exactly what you want. Burning Blade > Flat Blade sounds horrible in EXP parties, but it makes Fusion and does little damage. If the mob is alive long enough to do this 2-3 times in a fight, you get very good value from each monster. A L2 chain is a L2 chain whether it does 30 damage or 900. You want the 30. If your group is doing L3 chains, it may do alot more damage, but the points may be worth it to you. If possible, arrange the L3 chain so it does the least damage possible.

For skilling or solo WS's, find a balance. If your attack is low enough, use a good multi-hit WS to get the most potential skill. If your skill is going up and you're doing more damage, try WS's that do the least amount of damage, like stunning skills (flat blade, smash axe) and non-DoT type status effect ones (Shield Break, Nightmare Scythe). These WS's generally do little damage, but can hinder the mob in a way that will help your group.

Spellcasters should use magic that simply enfeebles without DoT. Blind, Slow, Paralyze, Absorb-AGI.. reducing he mob to a harmless punching bag is a great way to keep the party moving smoothly. Bards should focus on HP/MP regen and madrigal. Minuet - {no thanks}.

Don't use Berserk, Last Resort, Souleater, Warcry (only for hate control, disable the effect ASAP), Boost, or any of that nonsense. They have no place in skill parties. Only abilities that boost accuracy or survivability should be used.

That's all I can really think of. Believe it or not, I ran into just about everything that goes against my guide over the past couple of weeks, and that's why I felt I had to post. I enjoy skilling parties and I want everyone else to as well. They are time-consuming and a bit annoying but as long as they move smoothly the skill will come and it will be beneficial.

Good job! I remember skilling up club and staff as a mage in skill up parties, and it does suck sometimes for mages. DRK's using Souleater (MPeater in this case) and other DDs doing everything in their power to show off and kill the mob as fast as possible....

I only have 2 WSNMs done- Black Halo and Retribution. I too am far from claiming to be an expert on skill-up parties, but everything I've noticed and learned you pretty much summed up in your post. Rate up!

*side note* Thank Goodness I'm done with that nightmare!

One thing you left out of the mages part, Haste. Unless you are a nin or /nin and the tank, I will not give it to you. Don't waste your time asking, you aren't getting it, move along.

lol, rate up for you for helping other people out ^^ but i dunno if it's just you, but pretty much everyone on Seraph Skill PTs does 9/10 of those things anyway.

had no idea that there were BAD skill pts O o;

You might want to add something about brds in skill up parties. BRD songs take so long to cast that even just casting 2-4 per fight can really reduce the number of swings are BRD gets in a skill up party. It doesn't sound like much but 2-8 second songs takes 16 seconds. Do this 4 times and then you've gone a minute without swinging.

Just like was said above, don't expect the mages to support the DDs like in a regular party.

Haste does not increase casting times, it reduces recasts.

Also, you want to contribute to buying me a manteel just so you can get madrigal during that skillup pt?


Fixed: said exp pt

Edited, Tue May 16 08:12:46 2006 by FaffyOfDiabolos

Yeah. The numbers. God I hate when people fail to think of this. I went in a few skillup parties which would leave me getting maybe 2 staff swings in per battle because some nimrod thinks 10 people beating on EP/DC mobs is a good idea. Yeah. Kuftal Tunnel has roughly 6 billion Robber Crabs, but we still managed to deplete the supply.

I formed some skillup parties last week. First to do Enfeebling Magic on WHM (I sat back and spammed Dia on crabbies, worked very well) then after that was capped to work on staff and club (I skill them up concurrently, in increments of 10). I remember one which bloated to 10 people, and the skillup rate was horrible. After that, I vowed to make it 6 person max. One guy though.... The second I invited him, he immediately started inviting a number of his friends, insisted we ally, and when we got to camp used a lot of his strongest techniques. Booted him soon enough, and my skills went up a lot faster as the crabbies lasted longer.

a note on the mages in skillup, namely whm and rdm, who dislike throwing the occasion heal, remember that every time you heal there's a chance you'll see a nice skillup in it. I still wish I knew how the heal skillups were calculated...near impossible to get my skill capped now...

<3 this guide. Especially the part about subbing nin or whm.

I only have staff 200+ (Was capped at 74..). I've skilled dagger and club to 185 and scythe to 148 solo mostly. Few times I joined a skill up party it did not end well.
I've started telling certain people that if they want me to skill up with them, I'm coming blm/war -.-;

QFT

I actually keep Defender up, except on Steelshells. Mob stays alive longer, and I'm less of a liability if/when I'm waiting on shadow timers.

Thank you for including this. I don't think DDs realize that you must get consecutive hits to get any skill ups. Getting in a hit here and there in between casts doesn't do it. I have pretty much given up on skill up ptys because it seems I am only there for support.

I don't mind throwing in a few cures and refreshes, but I usually end up having to disengage from the mob and do nothing but casting. As you can guess, it is pretty discouraging.

This is a real shame, as mages don't get to use their weapons in battle like the DDs. Skill up ptys are pretty much the only way they can ever get good skill ups.

That's not true. As far as I can tell any hit has a chance to give skill up.

Of course, that doesn't change the fact that you will need lots and lots of hits to skill effectively, so being distracted by casting magic will slow you down.

I'm a RDM, if you don't like how often I decide to cast Refresh, boot me.

I can skill up, solo on T-VT crabs, anyway. X^P

In a related story, I've never been booted from a party.

Don't forget the -stat gear that can help you isolate a particular skill. Wearing -eva gear might help shield and parry activate more often. I can't confirm this, but I believe the game checks defensive traits in the order of: evasion, shield, parry, guard. I base this order on the relative difficulty in skilling up each trait. So, for example, a MNK leveling guard might want to wear a lot of -eva gear to improve the frequency with which guard procs. Likewise, to level parry a RDM might consider -eva gear and going dual wield or, at least, unequipping their shield. Of course in both cases the player must have the party's cooperation to allow them to tank (unless they are playing solo).

In fact, it might even be helpful to bring -skill gear to extend the effective levels you can skill up on a given mob. I'm not sure if this is correct, but wouldn't equipping, say -sword skill gear after reaching the skill cap on a particular mob allow us to continue getting skill ups from that mob?

Just a thought.

EDIT: Heh, just noticed this was my 600th post. w00t!

LOL!

8^D

Edited, Mon May 15 16:14:38 2006 by Pitlourde