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Gajaad, Donations, and the Imperial Defense ValueFollow

#1 Nov 02 2006 at 3:50 AM Rating: Excellent
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Gajaad, a representative of the Walahra Temple, stands in Al Zahbi's Flameserpent Square collecting bronzepiece donations. Every 100 bronzepieces earns the donor a Walahra Water, and a Walahra Turban on the 10,000th bronzepiece. Once a person has donated enough for the turban, Gajaad is quickly forgotten.

Gajaad's purpose, however, is greater than a mini-quest for a Haste +5% headpiece.

I considered his purpose within the scope of the game: donations for the sake of Al Zahbi. I figured it was just a device to justify the turban, but then another mystery crossed my mind: the Imperial defense value. If you go to any Sanction guard and say "I have some questions..." > "Besieged" > "Empire's current state of defense," he will state this value (among other Besieged data). This value represents the presence of NPCs that will appear in the next Besieged. The value seems to cap at 200. When the value is high, many and more diverse NPCs are present. When the value is low, fewer and mostly Immortals/Volunteers are present.

For months I assumed that there was no trick to the value and it naturally built up between Besieged events, but this does not seem to be the case. I checked the defense value earlier this evening following a Lv.6 Mamool attack. The value was 160. With 5 bronzepieces in hand, I ran to Gajaad and traded the coins. The Sanction guard told me that the Imperial defense was 161. Curious, I cashed my IS in Whitegate for 10 more bronzepieces. I checked the value in Whitegate before zoning to Al Zahbi-- still 161. I ran to Gajaad, traded 10 coins, and returned to the Sanction guard. The value had risen to 163. I followed up this test by having an LS mate trade coins to Gajaad while I waited at the guard. Sure enough, every 5 bronzepieces traded increased the defense value by 1 point.

I bought two stacks of bronzepieces from the AH (too lazy to cash IS or go to Al Zahbi and make change) and traded a whole 99 coins to Gajaad. Strangely, the guard stated that the Imperial defense was 168, a mere 1 point higher than the results from my previous test of 5 coins at a time (my LS mate stopped trading at 167). I traded 5 coins, still 168. 10 coins, 168. 25 coins, 168. I had an LS mate repeat 5/10/25 coins. The value would not rise over 168.

This brings in another factor: prisoners. The presence of volunteers and Immortals depends on the number of NPCs in Al Zahbi. If NPCs are missing, fewer hometown participants appear. Currently on Sylph, there are 5 prisoners: one general and four merchants. The defense value is capped at 168, and the presumed highest value is 200. Generals represent themselves in Besieged, so counting the captured general out, we're left with 4 merchants. 32(defense short of 200)/4(prisoners) = 8(defense per NPC). I haven't tested this, but I'll wager that once a rescued merchant returns to the capital, the defense will rise by 8 adding unpaid volunteers and Immortals to the ranks.

Running with the above idea, consider the number of abductable NPCs. 10 merchants, 5 generals. I rule generals out of the defense value because they represent themselves in Besieged. Assuming the cap is 200 defense, every merchant is worth 8 points of defense, and every merchant is captured, the Imperial defense will not rise over 120 with reinforcements consisting entirely of mercenaries (Qiqirns, gobs) and the Imperial army if enough bronze is donated to max the value at 120. Inversely, if every merchant is present in Al Zahbi, the Imperial defense will never drop below 80 if every mercenary is killed and nobody donates anything.
(The italicized information here assumes that every NPC has a set value. Based on new data, this is probably not the case, but I will not yet cut this information out completely.)

This means that players can directly affect the Imperial defense value by donating bronzepieces. Rescuing the NPCs raises the cap on defense by some number, so more coins must be donated to accomodate the points that each NPC represents after being rescued. I'm also assuming that NPCs only represent the unpaid participants in Besieged: Volunteers, and Immortals. Based on SE's description of these two kinds of reinforcements, they aren't paid anything, whereas the Imperial army and beastmen mercenaries are paid for their services. There's also the question of some NPCs being worth more than others, or perhaps generals are worth a ton and NPCs are worth very little. This is more than I can test without the proper conditions...

tl;dr--

- The cap on the Imperial defense value is suspected to be 200, but appears to be able to reach higher.
- The 10 merchant NPCs outside of Besieged account for an unknown amount of defense each.
- The 5 generals seem to have no effect on the Imperial defense (needs confirmation).
- The Imperial defense value can be raised by donating bronzepieces to Gajaad in Al Zahbi, the Walahra Turban NPC. Gajaad will accept coins even after you've obtained a turban.
- Gajaad will not accept donations if the appraisal NPC, Chochoroon, is a prisoner.
- Every 5 bronzepieces raises the defense value by 1 point up to the mercenary cap, determined by the number of NPCs present in Al Zahbi. There seems to be no limit to the number of times any one person can trade coins for defense.
- Merchant NPCs affect the presence of Volunteers and Immortals in Besieged. Donations affect the presence of Qiqirns, goblins and members of the Imperial army.

EDIT 11/02/06-- Large increase in Imperial defense on recovering prisoners; rescuing prisoners confirmed to raise cap on mercenary donations.

Edited, Nov 2nd 2006 at 6:18pm PST by Almalexia
#2 Nov 02 2006 at 3:56 AM Rating: Decent
Wow, incredible discovery! If all this is right, looks like people can spend 10k~ to help out a bit in a Beseiged, especially if the IDV is really low. Again, nice work finding this! /applause Almalexia!!
#3 Nov 02 2006 at 4:00 AM Rating: Good
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You have WAY too much time on your hands. But awesome for you to test that out for everybody. I suppose now we can rest a little easier at Besieges, if we take the time to do our part anyway, and make a difference other than actually participating. And I do love Besieged, although I tend to miss out on like 90% of them lol, which I suppose is one reason I still like it...still hasn't lost it's appeal.

Rate up for you.
#4 Nov 02 2006 at 4:15 AM Rating: Good
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Very good information. Perhaps I'll spend my Imperial Currency on this when Al Zhabi seems to need it.

Perhaps SE should add more rewards for doing this (unless there already is?) other than the Turban/Walahra Waters. It seems like it would've been a good source to get the gear that raises your performance in Besieged, but it seems those pieces can be found elsewhere.

Anyways, great find!
#5 Nov 02 2006 at 4:17 AM Rating: Default
Lol glad i'm not alone! I figured it worked like this a long time ago (around July I believe) but I didn't think too much of it since my server seems to not care about besiege too much, even after all the changes -.- I always thought it was a little weird that he'd still accept bronze pieces after you get your turban, and I figured it really, literally, goes to the defense of Al Zahbi.
#6 Nov 02 2006 at 4:25 AM Rating: Decent
Quote:
Lol glad i'm not alone! I figured it worked like this a long time ago (around July I believe) but I didn't think too much of it since my server seems to not care about besiege too much, even after all the changes -.- I always thought it was a little weird that he'd still accept bronze pieces after you get your turban, and I figured it really, literally, goes to the defense of Al Zahbi.


Ok conker. I'd like to take credit for the OP's discovery too. So praise me as well. Wish I had time to say more but I need to go to another thread and take credit for something else I didn't do.
#7 Nov 02 2006 at 4:31 AM Rating: Decent
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VawnLakshimi wrote:
Quote:
Lol glad i'm not alone! I figured it worked like this a long time ago (around July I believe) but I didn't think too much of it since my server seems to not care about besiege too much, even after all the changes -.- I always thought it was a little weird that he'd still accept bronze pieces after you get your turban, and I figured it really, literally, goes to the defense of Al Zahbi.


Ok conker. I'd like to take credit for the OP's discovery too. So praise me as well. Wish I had time to say more but I need to go to another thread and take credit for something else I didn't do.


Do you honestly think the OP would have been the ONLY person out of every server to figure this out? I'd assume someone else would have figure this out also, maybe not exactly down to as the OP have, but really if you think about it, it made sense that if you could still donate for "Al zahbi's defense" after you get your turban, it has to go to something o.O;
#8 Nov 02 2006 at 4:46 AM Rating: Decent
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im gonna get flamed if i said siren knew this in august, wont I....


still, I only knew coins = ID, never knew teh exacts, ty for that :)
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#9 Nov 02 2006 at 4:52 AM Rating: Decent
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Jinte wrote:
im gonna get flamed if i said siren knew this in august, wont I....


still, I only knew coins = ID, never knew teh exacts, ty for that :)


Siren is undefeated right? It could be part of the reason (if your server knew about this too) xD.

I got my turban and was done with it lol converting gold coins to 1000 bronze was pain enough ; ; But now I see that it would be useful I should go and trade my last stack to Gaj to help Al Zahbi.
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#10 Nov 02 2006 at 5:50 AM Rating: Good
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Wow, very nice work.
#11 Nov 02 2006 at 7:36 AM Rating: Decent
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I always suspected trading coins to him made more NPCs pop up in Besieged but I never really looked into it much, good work!
#12 Nov 02 2006 at 9:53 AM Rating: Good
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One question I've had about the current state of defense, is this where the exp and sanction bonuses come from? I'm just curious. I know if you lose the astral candle, there is no bonuses, and when you get it back, the bonuses are low. For instance, refresh only refreshes to 50%, but over time, it works it's way back up to the 85% or 90% max. I know there is exp bonus also in the new areas working the same as sanction bonuses. Starts low and gradually makes it up to the 15% max exp bonus.

I guess my question is, are the sanction bonuses directly tied to the current state of defense? lets say defense is at 120, does refresh stop at 60% and exp bonus stop at 8%? Or are they solely based on how long you've had the candle in your control? Since trading coins improves the state of defense, if the two are tied together, this would also be a very fast way to get the sanction bonuses as high as possible after losing the candle. This is what I would like to see proven or disproven. My guess is going to be that they are seperate and the sanction bonuses are solely based on how long you keep control of the astral candle.

Great find though, think it's time to go get some coins and do my part, since I seem to miss every single beseiged during the weeks.
#13 Nov 02 2006 at 10:19 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
One question I've had about the current state of defense, is this where the exp and sanction bonuses come from? I'm just curious. I know if you lose the astral candle, there is no bonuses, and when you get it back, the bonuses are low. For instance, refresh only refreshes to 50%, but over time, it works it's way back up to the 85% or 90% max. I know there is exp bonus also in the new areas working the same as sanction bonuses. Starts low and gradually makes it up to the 15% max exp bonus.

The effectiveness of Sanction bonuses are based on successive victories in Besieged, which is the first line of information provided if you ask a guard about the Empire's current state of defense. I've seen the defense value as low as 70 and as high as 188 in past months, but the effect of Sanction was no different until the Astral Candescence was taken.

EXP bonus appears to reach the 15% mark around the time the beastmen start their Lv.5 attacks, around 16 successive victories. I suspect this is the same time the food/regen/refresh bonus reaches its maximum.

I'd like to clarify that donating coins for mercenary support is no substitution for a real human player. The mercenary NPCs will help the Besieged battles along, yes, but they're still nothing more than bots. Please don't misinterpret this information as an excuse to blow off Besieged, but rather as a way to enhance the Besieged experience (or if you hate Besieged, consider this a small way to help). Just wanted to add that before I see 200 people in Al Zahbi during a Lv.6 attack with all the absentees saying "but I donated coins like you said!"
#14 Nov 02 2006 at 5:56 PM Rating: Decent
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More testing done this afternoon, after Sylph recovered some prisoners (no Besieged yet, so I know the data wasn't scrambled somehow). There are currently 3 prisoners: one general and two merchants. Two other merchants have already returned to the capital. I checked the Imperial defense during this time and found it set at 196-- 28 points higher than last evening's value when 5 NPCs, a general and 4 merchants, were captured.

I traded 5 coins to Gajaad. The value raised to 197. I traded another 5 coins, 197. 10 coins, 197. It appeared that a cap had once again been set for the current conditions. With two NPCs recovered since last night, the cap was a whole 29 points higher.

Assuming my theory in the OP is true, that's 16 points for NPCs and 13 points that are unaccounted for. Considering that I could manipulate the defense value by trading coins even after reaching a supposed "mercenary cap" last night, this must mean that recovering NPCs not only adds to the Imperial defense but increases the cap on mercenaries (donations) as well!

This new information suggests that one of three things are true:

a.) Each NPC has a differing amount of Imperial defense value, both innately and by increasing cap to the number of mercenary units acquired through donations.

b.) NPCs all have an equal Imperial defense value and increase the cap of the mercenary units acquired through donations.

c.) NPCs have no Imperial defense value and only raise the cap on mercenary units acquired through donation (i.e. the units in Besieged that represent the NPCs don't count).

With the defense so close to 200, it's possible that that 200 isn't the greatest value. There's still a general and two merchants out on Sylph, and if two merchants can make a 29-point difference, maybe the generals are worth Imperial defense after all.

I need data from other servers. Servers with no prisoners, or many prisoners, or no general prisoners but lots of merchant prisoners. Include the defense value, spend the IS to raise the defense value as far as it will go!

Revising OP to accomodate new information.
#15 Nov 02 2006 at 8:27 PM Rating: Decent
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Hate to rain on the OP's parade, but take a look at this as found at http://www.playonline.com/pcd/update/ff11us/200604186oQFt2/detail.html. Bolding is mine

SquareEnix wrote:
-Keep an eye on the Imperial defense
The Imperial defense is an important statistic relating to the defensive facilities and the deployment of mercenaries in Besieged. If the Imperial defense decreases by too great an amount, the Empire may be unable to deploy mercenaries or set up defenses against beastman invasions, making the city much more difficult to protect.
When you notice the Imperial defense start to decrease, you can raise it by giving donations to the Al Zahbi NPC Gajaad.
For more information about Imperial defense, speak to an Imperial guard


Not to say the OP's other research isn't worthwhile, it is, as it's more indepth than SE certainly said.
#16 Nov 03 2006 at 12:27 AM Rating: Good
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Tonight on ifrit just before a level 6 beseiged I checked the defence. It was at 165 and there were 0 prisoners anywhere. I donated 15 coins and it was still at 165. Maybe the amount of defence you can have goes up with each successful beseiged in a row? I think ifrit is at 24 now.

Edited, Nov 3rd 2006 at 12:35am PST by LindorieIfrit
#17 Nov 03 2006 at 1:47 AM Rating: Default
VawnLakshimi wrote:
Quote:
Lol glad i'm not alone! I figured it worked like this a long time ago (around July I believe) but I didn't think too much of it since my server seems to not care about besiege too much, even after all the changes -.- I always thought it was a little weird that he'd still accept bronze pieces after you get your turban, and I figured it really, literally, goes to the defense of Al Zahbi.


Ok conker. I'd like to take credit for the OP's discovery too. So praise me as well. Wish I had time to say more but I need to go to another thread and take credit for something else I didn't do.



HAHA where's your shit talking now? lol!

Oh yeah, i'm "stealing credit" for apparent common knowledge, looks like you, Vawnlakshimi, need to read POL updates more often, as someone else said, the OP wasn't (Obviously) the first to figure this out. S/he just went more in depth with his/her research. Man..people never cease to amuse me with false claims, the famous "McCarthyism" at work yet again in a sense.


Good job though OP.
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