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The official word.Follow

#1 Mar 09 2007 at 4:14 PM Rating: Default
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I see SE's official and very carefully worded response. So far we can't prove or disprove what they are saying. What we can verify that SE did start scanning (emphasis for certain alla mods who didnt pick up the difference) processes this updates. I've seen screenshots of people who have blocked pol.exe which made me run out and get Process Guard myself. I have been able to verify that POL.exe DOES scan your other process'.

As I said before we can't verify SE's claim on whether or not they transmit the information they are retreiving from our systems as we can't use a packet sniffer without violating the TOS. I'll say this though, I wouldn't trust a company's word on the matter if they mysteriously started scanning my machine without telling me first.

The word I mentioned in the title is of course, cowardice. SE is too afraid of it's users and chalenges to confront it's chalenges within the letter of the law. They are afraid of a backlash that would arise from being found out. They are afraid of the free speech that would allow it's users to find out. Evidently the admins for FFXI here are just tools for SE to silence those who have figured out to a small degree of what got added.

Your court, Pikko.

Edit: I'm not posting on the matter anymore, I'm not going to just give you more posts you can gang rate for fun. If you really feel your personal rights are not worth protecting, then you're worthless. Remember that.

Edited, Mar 10th 2007 12:52am by Ranzera
#2 Mar 09 2007 at 4:16 PM Rating: Decent
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That is why I play on PS2 all they are gunna find if they scan that is a model # for an old ass PS2.

Edited, Mar 9th 2007 6:16pm by jackjeckel
#3 Mar 09 2007 at 4:18 PM Rating: Decent
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Pikko just gave you the statement from FFXI. She's no one's "tool".
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Olorinus the Ludicrous wrote:
The idea of old school is way more interesting than the reality
#4 Mar 09 2007 at 4:20 PM Rating: Default
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She locked the thread, and I already have my statement about the explanation. They don't even address the scanning. Maybe we should hack their network protocol to see what they are transmitting.
#5 Mar 09 2007 at 4:20 PM Rating: Excellent
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<default "Don't shoot the messenger" message goes here>
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#6 Mar 09 2007 at 4:21 PM Rating: Decent
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I commend you Ranzera, because i'm not bold enough to actually make the post you did.

I did ask Pikko about where the information of the statement came from (so i could attempt to read it from it's source)... and his response was that it was from an email.

Unless i log into POL tonight, and see an email in my POL email, i'm skeptical about this "official" response... mostly due to the fact that an "official" response is generally made to the public, rather than one person.

I am not stupid enough to call into question Pikko's actually recieving such a memo from SE... i am, however, questioning whether it truly constitutes an "official" response if only one person got it....
#7 Mar 09 2007 at 4:21 PM Rating: Decent
didn't you wear a tail and beat your little brother up with a foam sword?

I dont know how i feel about your info for 2 reasons.

1. you may or may not have worn a tail while "Cosplaying" with your little brother

2. I play on Ps3. so the info doesnt implicate me.


edit oh nvm mistaken identity but you must admit your names are very close :/ oopppps.



Edited, Mar 9th 2007 6:23pm by darkajima
#8 Mar 09 2007 at 4:22 PM Rating: Decent
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I wouldn't have a problem if you didn't lock the thread. That screams underhanded to me. What was happening in there other than discussion/arguing. I didn't see any outright flamebaiting that merits admin interaction.
#9 Mar 09 2007 at 4:22 PM Rating: Default
not worth it.

Edited, Mar 9th 2007 7:24pm by Otovyoto
#10 Mar 09 2007 at 4:22 PM Rating: Decent
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I bet people read too much of those magazines that they sell right by those supermarket checkout booths.... and let rumors cloud reason.
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#11 Mar 09 2007 at 4:23 PM Rating: Decent
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OR you can let it go.

You know, cuz it's a game.

And really, they aren't broadcasting this information.
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Olorinus the Ludicrous wrote:
The idea of old school is way more interesting than the reality
#12 Mar 09 2007 at 4:23 PM Rating: Default
Its over, FFXI is finished.
#13 Mar 09 2007 at 4:24 PM Rating: Decent
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darkajima wrote:
didn't you wear a tail and beat your little brother up with a foam sword?

I dont know how i feel about your info for 2 reasons.

1. you may or may not have worn a tail while "Cosplaying" with your little brother

2. I play on Ps3. so the info doesnt implicate me.


I can only assume you're talking about Ranzear. We're different people. The admins would have bammed 1 or both of us already if they found us to be 1 person (there is a sockpuppet rule you know).
#14 Mar 09 2007 at 4:28 PM Rating: Decent
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Who bloody cares. Stop downloading **** on your compy if you're that scared.
#15 Mar 09 2007 at 4:29 PM Rating: Decent
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Lord Otovyoto wrote:
Personally, it just sounds like your more 3rd party programs than windower and your making a stink.


I won't lie to you, I use windower, FFAssist, and namesetter.

I use windower for drawdistance, windowing, and longer macros.

I use FFAssist for on screen Recasts (I feel these should be in the game already)

I use namesetter because the window changing names every 4-5 seconds is annoying.

What do I not use? Voke Bots, Fleetool, and whatever else they have out there. I play the game the way I feel everyone should be able to. I don't do anything that I feel the player shouldn't be able to do. My problem is the underhanded tactics now being employed by SE. If they banned me tomorrow it wouldn't bother me, I had a good run with good friends. What I don't care for is their methodology, it's criminal.
#16 Mar 09 2007 at 4:29 PM Rating: Default
i know i edited my post.


sorry for being a lame ***. frankly guys with tails scares me.

someone /comfort me please.
#18 Mar 09 2007 at 4:33 PM Rating: Excellent
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sschan hit the nail on the head. Threads like that spiral on and on into oblivion until finally no one really cares to read the 300 posts that come after. All they know is that Square is snooping and breaking the law and that they should sue for privacy invasion, etc.

As an administrator of this forum I have to take things like that into consideration. And when a statement is issued directly denying what was essentially Arketa's interpretation of what a Play Online person said, then I don't think I can support a thread of such a nature. In the OP, it says "In short: Square confirmed they do x and x".

Now obviously I have no idea what went on in this conversation with Charles, but it would be stupid of me to not take that kind of blanket statement without a grain of salt. I go through the same thing time and time again with my mother. I say one thing, she hears another, tells everyone in my family and then suddenly everyone is all pissed off at me. All because my mom misunderstood me OR I worded something wrong OR both.
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#19 Mar 09 2007 at 4:35 PM Rating: Decent
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Fynlar wrote:
Who bloody cares. Stop downloading **** on your compy if you're that scared.


I'm not scared. And if someone is interesting in my **** collection, send a PM (seriously.. wtf??). It's a law that we're informed of these actions. Some people are thick... "It's ok if our rights are invaded so long as we get the bad guyzzzzz /bushbobblehead".
#20 Mar 09 2007 at 4:39 PM Rating: Decent
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Pikko Pots wrote:
sschan hit the nail on the head. Threads like that spiral on and on into oblivion until finally no one really cares to read the 300 posts that come after. All they know is that Square is snooping and breaking the law and that they should sue for privacy invasion, etc.

As an administrator of this forum I have to take things like that into consideration. And when a statement is issued directly denying what was essentially Arketa's interpretation of what a Play Online person said, then I don't think I can support a thread of such a nature. In the OP, it says "In short: Square confirmed they do x and x".

Now obviously I have no idea what went on in this conversation with Charles, but it would be stupid of me to not take that kind of blanket statement without a grain of salt. I go through the same thing time and time again with my mother. I say one thing, she hears another, tells everyone in my family and then suddenly everyone is all pissed off at me. All because my mom misunderstood me OR I worded something wrong OR both.


I wouldn't be getting all bent out of shape if I hadn't already verified the claims made. SE is scanning your memory, they do not have clearance to do it with their TOS. THAT'S THE ONLY CASE I'M MAKING! Re-read that if you're too thick to understand what other people are saying. You have the power to verify this yourself, go get the free version of Process Guard, install it, configure it to deny reads from all programs to other programs and run Playonline and look at your Process Guard log. It's right there. Anyone can see.

Edit: With that I have to head out for the night, off work in a few minutes. I'll be back to talk more tomorrow at 11am CST.

Edited, Mar 9th 2007 6:41pm by Ranzera
#21 Mar 09 2007 at 4:42 PM Rating: Decent
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Ranzera wrote:
I wouldn't be getting all bent out of shape if I hadn't already verified the claims made. SE is scanning your memory, they do not have clearance to do it with their TOS. THAT'S THE ONLY CASE I'M MAKING! Re-read that if you're too thick to understand what other people are saying. You have the power to verify this yourself, go get the free version of Process Guard, install it, configure it to deny reads from all programs to other programs and run Playonline and look at your Process Guard log. It's right there. Anyone can see.

Edit: With that I have to head out for the night, off work in a few minutes.

Edited, Mar 9th 2007 6:40pm by Ranzera


This right here is why the other forum got the lock, and why this one needs it too. You have your irrevokable view of the "Big Evil Empire" that is the world. What you see is POL accessing system files. Congrats. That's all it does. SE just stated that.
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Olorinus the Ludicrous wrote:
The idea of old school is way more interesting than the reality
#22 Mar 09 2007 at 4:43 PM Rating: Good
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I seem kinda stupid posting this, because I feel I must have missed something really obvious, but here goes POL Privacy Policy Click the link that says Privacy Policy and read the last date is was updated. Now, here's copy&paste from that link...

"As a User of PlayOnline, you acknowledge that you understand SEI will be collecting information from you, some of which may be personally identifiable information, and by accessing and using PlayOnline, you consent to the collection and use of that information in accordance with this Policy. "

And to go a little further down the page, I'm gonna copy&paste somethin else too

"2. Collection of Traffic Data
SEI may also collect certain anonymous usage data, such as pages visited and services used within PlayOnline (collectively, “Traffic Data”). This information is not Personal Information and generally is not aggregated with Personal Information. We generally use Traffic Data to improve our services to you and to customize and enhance your PlayOnline experience."

Now, from my understanding, that means that they may scan my computer for whatever the hell they want that is interacting with POL, at any time, they just havent been until this update. Since they just mentioned in the past week that they are probably doing a windowed version, it kind of makes sense that they are now actively scanning apps to see what is running while you play ffxi.

I was going to avoid all these posts but I figured I couldnt just sit and watch the freak outs any more. Am I missing something painfully obvious?
#23 Mar 09 2007 at 4:46 PM Rating: Default
Yes, if this is occurring, I'd like to know, though I doubt Squenix would be too forthcoming with this information as it's the sort of thing that might make me and other players quit...

Granted, I doubt it would be as bad as the clusterfuck that other games that use the GameGuard rootkit put your system through (can you all say, "Locked API, royally @#%^ed operating system, and severe system security compromise with undefended I/O ports because of a program that you may not even be able to fully remove even if you reinstall Windows?").

Still, though, if it comes down to that I'd much rather have bots and RMT than GameGuard-esque scans of my computer. Honestly, SE, how am I supposed to hide my illegal fraudulent money-printing business, now? Otherwise I'm much more inclined to trust SE scanning my computer than, say, the U.S. Government.

On that note, anyone have any idea how to fully get rid of GameGuard? I've had harder times getting rid of spyaxe/trojans/system crashing worms...

Edited, Mar 9th 2007 5:49pm by firefeng
#24 Mar 09 2007 at 4:49 PM Rating: Default
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I quoted them chapter and verse on this Heywood (love the name). They just flamed me like they will you here. And they will deny that has any bearing on anything.

They've got it in their head that SE = George Bush and examining processes on their computer = the Patriot Act. What they don't realize is that the game is not a democracy, SE isn't it's president, and that it is in fact a totalitarian state in which SE can revoke and all rights to its usage at any time for a reason as simple as the colour of your font wasn't to their liking.
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Olorinus the Ludicrous wrote:
The idea of old school is way more interesting than the reality
#25 Mar 09 2007 at 4:49 PM Rating: Default
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Even on the original thread that started this conspiracy that it was shown that the Internet security package can be configured to create a misleading response. I guess that is not enough to convince people to... at least question a conspiracy.

Oh well people like Hitler and Mao can say things confuse and mislead the hell out of millions of people, I guess it is easy to do with Internet forums too :P Embrace Martin Luther, think for yourself and read the Bible yourself, don't let others tell you what it means :P

Edited, Mar 9th 2007 7:51pm by scchan
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-- Thank you for the fun times in Vana'diel

Art for the sake of art itself is an idle sentence.
Art for the sake of truth, for the sake of what is
beautiful and good — that is the creed I seek.
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not when there is nothing left to add,
but when there is nothing left to take away.
- Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
#26 Mar 09 2007 at 4:50 PM Rating: Decent
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Pawkeshup wrote:
This right here is why the other forum got the lock, and why this one needs it too. You have your irrevokable view of the "Big Evil Empire" that is the world. What you see is POL accessing system files. Congrats. That's all it does. SE just stated that.


No it doesn't. SE said (to Pikko, to noone else):
SE by way of Pikko wrote:
Recently the FINAL FANTASY XI community on Allakhazam has been discussing an untrue rumor. We would like to put that rumor to rest by stating that there has been no change in the PlayOnline software that would allow it to report on a user's active programs, or cause it to send the data back to Square Enix. We want to make this official announcement so that our members will not be alarmed or confused by a rumor that has no basis in fact.


Nowhere in that does it say anything about POL accessing system files. In fact, by what was affirmed yesterday in the forums of POL accessing system files, and by this statement, one could reason that SE does not deny that they are doing as such.

But they do not say they are, either.

Quote:
"2. Collection of Traffic Data
SEI may also collect certain anonymous usage data, such as pages visited and services used within PlayOnline (collectively, “Traffic Data”). This information is not Personal Information and generally is not aggregated with Personal Information. We generally use Traffic Data to improve our services to you and to customize and enhance your PlayOnline experience."


And Heywood, this segment of Traffic Data is useage data of from things within PlayOnline. it would not include things prior to entry.
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