Sick of fighting in the streets? No Campaign Ops, Evaluation or Teleportation NPC access got you down? Here's how to fix your problem. Be warned: it requires more effort and coordination and less cry-baby antics about how SE is so unfair to you.
I was a part of the interdiction force that took back Meriphataud Mountains last week, and I learned a lot from the stalwarts that I fought with. I have only done this once however, so this guide is by no means general or comprehensive, I will add information as it comes in from the community. I believe, however, that it contains all the information and strategy you need to take back any Beastman controlled area with a balanced group of 12-18 people.
There are three keys to victory:
1. (VITAL) Stop the NPCs which replenish Beastman Fortifications (Repair Squads).
2. Stop the NPCs which replenish the Beastmen Resources (Transporters/Guards).
3. Kill Campaign mobs and win Campaign Battles that occur.
Let's go through these in order maggots.
Break Fortifications and Keep them Broken
This is likely the single most important aspect. It must occur, or you will lose. Each Beastman army has troops that appear in groups of 3-5 and replenish/repair the fortifications. The Yagudo have "Divine Pilgrims" Orcs have "Clan Bear Fighters" and Quadavs have "Bo'Dho Shieldwarriors." These repair squads run to the outpost, repair instantly (?) and then warp away. Kill every repair squad and the fortifications will never regenerate.
These attacks are announced, just like any troop dispatch. Learn the route the repair squad takes, position your strike force to intercept and annihilate them. If even one of the squad breaks through your line, it will warp away and the Beastmen will get a large increase in their Fortifications. You must slay them utterly. This will require enough people with enough sense to take down up to 5 Campaign level mobs simultaneously. They are as tough, but no tougher than, any Beastman grunt unit.
You receive no XP for the dirty work of killing "engineer" units unless you have allied tags on, since they are Campaign mobs. Tough.
However, if you want to get XP and break down fortifications then do "Slaughterhouse." The "Slaughterhouse" series of Campaign Ops is tremendously effective at dropping the fortification value of a Beastmen held area. Each run knocks the Fortification rating down by 2, and can be completed in just a few minutes. It generally takes 6 players several minutes to lower the fort value of an area even one point when in a campaign battle. Even a small group of players can PT up each other and run a dozen of these back to back. You can also "share" this Op with others in your PT and thus get lots of XP while breaking down fortifications. (the exact details of XP sharing are unknown, see also this thread.) This is a great way to spend the minutes of down-time between campaign battles!
Cut of Beastman Resource Supply Routes
In each area, there are [Beastman] Transporters and Guards which should be intercepted and killed. They come unannounced in the log, and must be stopped. Doing so fulfills the "Search and Seizure" Campaign Ops, so feel free to sign up for it as you do this.
Transporter/Guard behavior is very different than that of the Pilgrims. You only need to kill the Transporter to succeed. Once the Transporter is down, the Guards will warp out, but only if they have no enmity against any player.
These Beastmen are aggressive, and if any one of the mobs in the Transporter/Guard train agros a player- they begin to run at flee speed to the outpost. (The Yagudo version are sight agro, I do not know about Orcs or Quadav). You must therefore ambush the Transporter/Guard train.
Lay in wait with a point man out front who will wait for visual on the train (alternately, rely on widescan). As the Transporter passes pull it without getting spotted/agroed and kill it quickly. It is far less powerful than a standard campaign mob (an unresisted AMII will take 80%+ of its life). Have a rear-guard with a fast pulling move that will wait behind everyone else in case the train spots your ambush and makes a break for it.
If you are doing the Campaign Ops there will be a ??? where the Transporter died to turn in to your Quartermaster. Quartermasters are present in the cities even during Campaign battles.
Win Campaign Battles/Kill Campaign Mobs/Beat some Forts
Little known fact: killing campaign mobs even when there is not a battle occurring will lower Beastman influence and raise Nation influence. You get no XP for the fights however, since you won't have allied tags. Tough. SE should make a Campign Ops which awards XP for this kind of guerrilla attack while a battle is not on.
Whenever you have downtime and a unit is defending the area, skirmish with them and pick of as many as you can. Fight it just like you would a campaign battle and make the best of it. Even when there is not a battle actively occurring Beastmen forces will "return victorious" or "suffer defeat." That's right: you can make a Beastman force retreat from and area and suffer a campaign battle loss, even if there is no campaign battle occurring!
When a battle does occur, fight! You must fight smart, but you all know the basic here. Just be very careful and coordinated in your attacks. Avoid the mob tactics of usual campaign battles and party up, get a puller/tank/healer and make it happen. You should be a balanced alliance anyway, so this should be no problem, right?
Be absolutely sure you do not let Pilgrims or Transporters slip through while you are fighting a major Beastman force. Vigilantly track the updates in the log to see when Pilgrims are dispatched, Transporters and Guards come unannounced but 1-2 skilled players (esp BLU, BLM, RDM) can stop them alone.
Other Stuff
Do this when it counts. Start Saturday evening/night sometime and pummel the Beastmen just before the JP midnight update (occurs Sunday morning US time). Get some caffeine, and warm up your JP phrase-book. This happens during JP primetime, but it's going to be a long road in the middle of the night for an NA player.
On Fairy, where this occurred, people had been "non-campaign fighting" the Beastmen all week, and so our influence was high when we started late NA Saturday night, however, the Beastman influence was dropping about 5-10% an hour with this kind of coordinated assault. Fortifications were down from ~220 to ~120 in 3-5 hours. I'm guessing that 10-12 hours of this will take back any area, regardless of its starting condition. It may be necessary to prep the area the day and night before to get Altana nations' influence high enough, just in case you don't get enough troops out to raise influence during the final push night.
Do this in an area where other players can realize what is going on and come assist. I recommend starter zone or zones with an [S] tele-crystal. Send recruiters back to main cities to get fresh blood with /shouts. Use auto-translate.
Tell your nation to focus on attacking and pre-emptive strikes. Tell them to send the best generals. Recruit freelances during the week. I don't know if this helps, but it might get more NPCs out to the front to assist you when battles occur, and NPC reinforcements are vital to low-man Campaign Battle victories.
Closing Remarks: This is Really Fun
Follow this strategy and you will slowly strangle the Beastmen out of an area by lowering their influence, fortifications and resources, while never allowing them to replenish. You need to be one part siege, one part guerrilla assault and all teeth.
I have a brand new baby and so I could not stay at the front all Saturday night, I wish I could have. Slamming the Beastmen and slowly grinding back an area with a pick-up alliance of ~17 Japanese and NA/EU players was one of the most fun things I have ever done in the game. As people realized what was occurring on /cmap, more and more trickled in. We cheered every time our little alliance saw a Yagudo unit retreat and we had a great time taking out Pilgrims with impunity. Watching your work slowly cut of the Beastman influence and restore your Nation's influence for the good of the server is a total head-rush. This was a truly awesome time and would make a fabulous LS event. This may be one of your only chances to fight back from such a total Beastman domination. You will surely meet and bond with a lot of cool people as you try to fight back the Beastmen.
I'M SICK OF YOUR WHINING! GET OUT TO THE FRONT AND TAKE BACK GROUND. LESS QQ! MORE PEWPEW!
Edit: 3-5 repair squad info, names for diff armies per posted info
Edit: Added Slaughterhouse info
Edited, Aug 10th 2008 7:26pm by Kiyokatsu
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How to Retake a Campign AreaFollow
Kiyokatsu wrote:
Cut of Beastman Resource Supply Routes
In each area, there are [Beastman] Transporters and Guards which should be intercepted and killed. They come unannounced in the log, and must be stopped. Doing so fulfills the "Search and Seizure" Campaign Ops, so feel free to sign up for it as you do this.
Transporter/Guard behavior is very different than that of the Pilgrims. You only need to kill the Transporter to succeed. Once the Transporter is down, the Guards will warp out, but only if they have no enmity against any player.
These Beastmen are aggressive, and if any one of the mobs in the Transporter/Guard train agros a player- they begin to run at flee speed to the outpost. (The Yagudo version are sight agro, I do not know about Orcs or Quadav). You must therefore ambush the Transporter/Guard train.
Lay in wait with a point man out front who will wait for visual on the train (alternately, rely on widescan). As the Transporter passes pull it without getting spotted/agroed and kill it quickly. It is far less powerful than a standard campaign mob (an unresisted AMII will take 80%+ of its life). Have a rear-guard with a fast pulling move that will wait behind everyone else in case the train spots your ambush and makes a break for it.
If you are doing the Campaign Ops there will be a ??? where the Transporter died to turn in to your Quartermaster. Quartermasters are present in the cities even during Campaign battles.
In each area, there are [Beastman] Transporters and Guards which should be intercepted and killed. They come unannounced in the log, and must be stopped. Doing so fulfills the "Search and Seizure" Campaign Ops, so feel free to sign up for it as you do this.
Transporter/Guard behavior is very different than that of the Pilgrims. You only need to kill the Transporter to succeed. Once the Transporter is down, the Guards will warp out, but only if they have no enmity against any player.
These Beastmen are aggressive, and if any one of the mobs in the Transporter/Guard train agros a player- they begin to run at flee speed to the outpost. (The Yagudo version are sight agro, I do not know about Orcs or Quadav). You must therefore ambush the Transporter/Guard train.
Lay in wait with a point man out front who will wait for visual on the train (alternately, rely on widescan). As the Transporter passes pull it without getting spotted/agroed and kill it quickly. It is far less powerful than a standard campaign mob (an unresisted AMII will take 80%+ of its life). Have a rear-guard with a fast pulling move that will wait behind everyone else in case the train spots your ambush and makes a break for it.
If you are doing the Campaign Ops there will be a ??? where the Transporter died to turn in to your Quartermaster. Quartermasters are present in the cities even during Campaign battles.
Just wanted to add that if you have a Summoner with Geocrush merited it can be extremely useful for dealing with the Transporters. Back when my usual Campaign zone (Jugner) was beastman controlled, I used to solo the Transporter regularly. How I would do this is move a good distance from the fortification (in Jugner I went up to the wall they cross over toward the telepoint). It has to be fairly far from the fortification to work. As soon as you see a Guard or Transporter, summon Titan. As they are running past (they won't aggro or fight), Geocrush the Transporter. It's a magic attack with decent range so if you time it well, you won't get the "too far away" message. It will drop him to about 50% HP and stun him for a good 5-10 seconds. Do not engage him yet! As soon as he's unstunned, he will resume fleeing and runs fast so immediately after Geocrush you should start running toward the fortification. Once the Transporter is unstunned, he'll run toward the fortification as well, then stop after about 50-70 yalms and engage you normally. At this point you've basically won because he's very easy to kill, and the Guards (which are a little tougher) are long gone. I don't know why he loses interest in completing his mission, I believe it's because the Guards leave him behind and warp away without him. In any event, he's all yours if you can delay him enough.
The supply run monsters are suseptable to Gravity, but it does break fairly quickly. Multiple RDMs can keep the set pinned down while the melee hack away.
Mielu wrote:
The supply run monsters are suseptable to Gravity, but it does break fairly quickly. Multiple RDMs can keep the set pinned down while the melee hack away.
Only directly cast Gravity on the Guards if you are willing and able to kill/zone/deagro them. A PT of 75s can kill the Transporter fast (under 10 seconds?) and survive the guards for a few moments while they warp off.
When I was under the Campaign OP Search and Seizure, my charmed Simoldeon (Juegner) one shotted the Transporter, two guards then warpped out.
Got ~314 EXP & ~964 AN. Very well worth the 2 minutes of work.
Got ~314 EXP & ~964 AN. Very well worth the 2 minutes of work.
Quote:
In each area, there are [Beastman] Transporters and Guards which should be intercepted and killed. They come unannounced in the log, and must be stopped. Doing so fulfills the "Search and Seizure" Campaign Ops, so feel free to sign up for it as you do this.
Transporter/Guard behavior is very different than that of the Pilgrims. You only need to kill the Transporter to succeed. Once the Transporter is down, the Guards will warp out, but only if they have no enmity against any player.
These Beastmen are aggressive, and if any one of the mobs in the Transporter/Guard train agros a player- they begin to run at flee speed to the outpost. (The Yagudo version are sight agro, I do not know about Orcs or Quadav). You must therefore ambush the Transporter/Guard train.
Transporter/Guard behavior is very different than that of the Pilgrims. You only need to kill the Transporter to succeed. Once the Transporter is down, the Guards will warp out, but only if they have no enmity against any player.
These Beastmen are aggressive, and if any one of the mobs in the Transporter/Guard train agros a player- they begin to run at flee speed to the outpost. (The Yagudo version are sight agro, I do not know about Orcs or Quadav). You must therefore ambush the Transporter/Guard train.
A couple things to add here, while I am in no way an expert on killing the small pack of beastmen I have witnessed slightly different mob behavior.
I've attacked 3 trios so far. For the first one I casted sleep (resisted) on the transporter, followed by bio. None of the beastmen trio ran away to the fort at flee speed - or any speed - I had hate on all three. I was fairly close to the fort at the time if this makes any difference. They were extremely easy to kite even without gravity (which does land easily).
I did not know that the guards would despawn after I killed the transporter so I DoTed all of them, and just ran around kiting. The guards did despawn after the transporter fell.
The second time I attacked them I used the same strategy expect I didn't bother to DoT the Guards.
The third time was different. I ran right up to the trio and casted Thunder III on the transporter. At this time there were Beastman at the fort doing repairs (no campaign battle). As a result of the beastmen being present it should be noted that I was a little further away when I initiated my assault. The orcs all ignored me and continued to the fort. I was under the impression that this only happened because more Beastmen were waiting at the fort.
I did this on RDM, I think the transporters could be one shotted by an AMII (possibly).
Kiyokatsu wrote:
LESS QQ! MORE PEWPEW!
OMFG SIGGED.
Also, I might test fighting these mobs without tags using an NPC. If she gets EXP from actually killing them, a lot more people will become interested with this.
don't even waste the time with the guards
Use Sneak Attack, cast Sneak and Invisible, and go directly behind the transporter and ATTACK FROM BEHIND. The transporter dies instantly, and his guards won't know what hit it because they'll run away and warp.
Usually that quests that involve killing the transporter and checking the ??? is a 2 star or 3 star campaign op. Oh yeah, you need not be the person that has to even be in the alliance that kills the transporter in order to check the ??? - it will still give you the key item.
The ones in Sarutabaruta and many other zones go to the outpost. The one in North Gustaberg goes to a door at F-8. Their routes are predictable.
The Pilgrims (yagudo), Bo'Dho Shieldwarrior (quadav), and Clan Bear Fighter (Orc). The Pilgrims are Monk type, Shieldwarriors are Paladin type, and the Clan Bears are Ranger type. There can be 3 to 5 per their runs, and all of them must be intercepted. A 75 BST can solo one of them in Pashhow, Garliage, and Vunkerl using multiple pet swaps (at least 5). Like the Transporters/Guards, they have very predictable routes - although in dungeons you need to set up a party camp in each area they run to in order to ensure they are all intercepted.
Also the most important thing to consider: you can get skillups when there are no campaign battle going on. If you do die and lose XP, don't panic cause you will just gain it back the next campaign battle. For a regular campaign mob, it only takes 3-4 peeps to bring them down - just make sure to pull them away from the Imps.
When the campaign battle starts, take out the Imps before you do anything else. I have soloed an Imp as 75 THF/NIN, they are the RDM type Imps that have less than 5K HP (but more HP than a standard H-Imp in the Mire).
Use Sneak Attack, cast Sneak and Invisible, and go directly behind the transporter and ATTACK FROM BEHIND. The transporter dies instantly, and his guards won't know what hit it because they'll run away and warp.
Usually that quests that involve killing the transporter and checking the ??? is a 2 star or 3 star campaign op. Oh yeah, you need not be the person that has to even be in the alliance that kills the transporter in order to check the ??? - it will still give you the key item.
The ones in Sarutabaruta and many other zones go to the outpost. The one in North Gustaberg goes to a door at F-8. Their routes are predictable.
The Pilgrims (yagudo), Bo'Dho Shieldwarrior (quadav), and Clan Bear Fighter (Orc). The Pilgrims are Monk type, Shieldwarriors are Paladin type, and the Clan Bears are Ranger type. There can be 3 to 5 per their runs, and all of them must be intercepted. A 75 BST can solo one of them in Pashhow, Garliage, and Vunkerl using multiple pet swaps (at least 5). Like the Transporters/Guards, they have very predictable routes - although in dungeons you need to set up a party camp in each area they run to in order to ensure they are all intercepted.
Also the most important thing to consider: you can get skillups when there are no campaign battle going on. If you do die and lose XP, don't panic cause you will just gain it back the next campaign battle. For a regular campaign mob, it only takes 3-4 peeps to bring them down - just make sure to pull them away from the Imps.
When the campaign battle starts, take out the Imps before you do anything else. I have soloed an Imp as 75 THF/NIN, they are the RDM type Imps that have less than 5K HP (but more HP than a standard H-Imp in the Mire).
I think the transporters are one shotted by any crit. attack. The other day I was running around Gustaberg [S] and saw the trio running towards the fort. I bound the transporter from behind the trio and then gravitied him. The guards will continue running towards the fort. I engaged the transporter and he took 1 normal hit which did put a sizeable dent in his hp (probably about 10%), then another hit (about 10% again), but then I did a crit and he died instantly. I could have been a timing thing, perhaps the guards reached the fort and since he wasn't with them he died, or it was the crit that did him in.
I knew I'd get lots of discussion about Guards/Transporters since they are a Campaign Ops. I'd love to see more discussion and experimentation about the other points: non-campaign battle campaign mob kills and repair squad interception.
This is not different behavior. The Transporters/Guards only flee away if they spot you first. If you pull them, you fight; if they agro you, they run.
The rest of your post contains different info though- the fact that Guards warped out even when directly DoTed is something I've not seen. The fact that the Transporter continued to run even when hit with a spell is also odd and begs for some investigation.
Edited, Jul 15th 2008 6:22pm by Kiyokatsu
Kriptex wrote:
A couple things to add here, while I am in no way an expert on killing the small pack of beastmen I have witnessed slightly different mob behavior.
I've attacked 3 trios so far. For the first one I casted sleep (resisted) on the transporter, followed by bio. None of the beastmen trio ran away to the fort at flee speed - or any speed - I had hate on all three.
I've attacked 3 trios so far. For the first one I casted sleep (resisted) on the transporter, followed by bio. None of the beastmen trio ran away to the fort at flee speed - or any speed - I had hate on all three.
This is not different behavior. The Transporters/Guards only flee away if they spot you first. If you pull them, you fight; if they agro you, they run.
The rest of your post contains different info though- the fact that Guards warped out even when directly DoTed is something I've not seen. The fact that the Transporter continued to run even when hit with a spell is also odd and begs for some investigation.
Edited, Jul 15th 2008 6:22pm by Kiyokatsu
Kriptex wrote:
A couple things to add here, while I am in no way an expert on killing the small pack of beastmen I have witnessed slightly different mob behavior.
I've attacked 3 trios so far. For the first one I casted sleep (resisted) on the transporter, followed by bio. None of the beastmen trio ran away to the fort at flee speed - or any speed - I had hate on all three. I was fairly close to the fort at the time if this makes any difference. They were extremely easy to kite even without gravity (which does land easily).
I did not know that the guards would despawn after I killed the transporter so I DoTed all of them, and just ran around kiting. The guards did despawn after the transporter fell.
The second time I attacked them I used the same strategy expect I didn't bother to DoT the Guards.
The third time was different. I ran right up to the trio and casted Thunder III on the transporter. At this time there were Beastman at the fort doing repairs (no campaign battle). As a result of the beastmen being present it should be noted that I was a little further away when I initiated my assault. The orcs all ignored me and continued to the fort. I was under the impression that this only happened because more Beastmen were waiting at the fort.
I did this on RDM, I think the transporters could be one shotted by an AMII (possibly).
I've attacked 3 trios so far. For the first one I casted sleep (resisted) on the transporter, followed by bio. None of the beastmen trio ran away to the fort at flee speed - or any speed - I had hate on all three. I was fairly close to the fort at the time if this makes any difference. They were extremely easy to kite even without gravity (which does land easily).
I did not know that the guards would despawn after I killed the transporter so I DoTed all of them, and just ran around kiting. The guards did despawn after the transporter fell.
The second time I attacked them I used the same strategy expect I didn't bother to DoT the Guards.
The third time was different. I ran right up to the trio and casted Thunder III on the transporter. At this time there were Beastman at the fort doing repairs (no campaign battle). As a result of the beastmen being present it should be noted that I was a little further away when I initiated my assault. The orcs all ignored me and continued to the fort. I was under the impression that this only happened because more Beastmen were waiting at the fort.
I did this on RDM, I think the transporters could be one shotted by an AMII (possibly).
Now that you mention it, I did get the orcs to stop and engage me once when I attacked them closer to the fortification. I suppose they have different behavior based on where you try to engage them.
In fact, I think I'm starting to understand their behavior now that I put all the pieces together.
You see, I noticed two different scenarios I practiced led to two different results. The best result is the one I did all but once (for obvious reasons), which was to Geocrush the Transporter about 120 yalms from the fortification. The guards would run off while the Transporter was stunned. I would run ahead of the Transporter. Once it was un-stunned, it would begin running again and I'd release Titan. After about 100 yalms (about 30 yalms from the fortification) it would stop and just stand there. My first attack killed it, no matter how much damage I did, it was instant death.
Now the only time it didn't do this was once when I didn't release Titan after Geocrush. I left him out, but did everything else the same. This time, the Transporter didn't just stop and stand there. He attacked me and fought like normal.
I think the significance of this is that I believe the Transporter is designed to attempt to flee conflicts, but in the event that a certain predetermined level of enmity is attained for a predetermined duration, then it will stop and fight. This would be demonstrated by the mob being very confused when I released Titan, my avatar was the one with enough enmity to make him stop and fight but by the time it stopped to fight, my avatar doesn't exist anymore or had been resummoned. It's probably a scenario SE's developers hadn't thought of. The person who said their Smilodon one-shotted the Transporter may have experienced the same bug.
So if my suspicions are true, then the way to get them to fight you would be to engage the Transporter early and get high hate quickly, and then pursue them until they stop and fight. It may be that you have to keep a certain hate level for a certain amount of time, or it may be that you have to obtain a certain hate level before the Transporter gets within X yalms of the fortification, or something else entirely.
*EDIT: All of my scenarios are with the mobs seeing me before I perform any action on them. It's good to know that if you pull them before they aggro you, they will actually fight as normal, but assuming they see you and flee the above all applies.
Edited, Jul 15th 2008 3:28pm by Pergatory
campaign is really cool.
I just think its missing one more key thing to really clinch it.
Maybe its just actually being in a fairly organized LS doing these battles.
Perhaps its really as simple as SE adding a true reward for the effort.
This guide is really cool however. It shows that campaign might really be working as intended. Its the players that need to get together and make things happen now.
I just want to see the one more thing, or group of things, that will really clinch campaign. Make it something more than just a cool thing and something more epic and grand in scale.
what would it be though? hmm ..
I just think its missing one more key thing to really clinch it.
Maybe its just actually being in a fairly organized LS doing these battles.
Perhaps its really as simple as SE adding a true reward for the effort.
This guide is really cool however. It shows that campaign might really be working as intended. Its the players that need to get together and make things happen now.
I just want to see the one more thing, or group of things, that will really clinch campaign. Make it something more than just a cool thing and something more epic and grand in scale.
what would it be though? hmm ..
I just managed to solo one of the Divine Pilgrims on 75 THF/37 NIN using evasion gear and status bolts - it does take a long time but they'll fall within 10 minutes. In Fort K-N, they enter the granite door and the first one warps at G-5 on the second map.
If you can't intercept them all, try to take out as many as you can. Each Pilgrim that warps increases the forticiation total by 5.
Edited, Jul 15th 2008 5:59pm by etnapwnzs
If you can't intercept them all, try to take out as many as you can. Each Pilgrim that warps increases the forticiation total by 5.
Edited, Jul 15th 2008 5:59pm by etnapwnzs
This is one of the best and most positive threads I have read on alla for a long time. Good job!
Wow this is awesome information. Have to get my friends to help.
Currently not having luck in getting friends to help intercept the pilgrims, but I'm doing what i can and intercepting those transporters whenever possible.
when its time to get tags this what I do:
Usually I start the pulling by taking out the Imps, since they can heal campaign mobs. Those Imps are gimps compared to the rest of the Beastmen Confederate, I been able to solo them as THF/WHM, using Barfira to prevent that amnesia move from sticking, and Cure III and Regen to keep myself alive (since bloody bolts don't proc on Imps and when I do use one on a different mob they will go straight to the mob for cure IV). I got Reraise for those moments where having to do a suicide pull is absolutely necessary.
during battles themselves I been starting to go as thf/whm for reraise, and executing suicide pulls - usually i just escort a certain number of mobs (without care of linking) to approaching npcs or just to an dead end so I can safely get killed and reraise when they clear out. I just pulled off a wicked suicide pull in Batallia, just kept shooting bolts at an regular orc, and when the whole entrouage had to converge on that point to wipe the sandy crew right there, I just hit Flee and Ran (with Reraise up). By the time the whole moonfang crew, the BLM orc megaboss and couple other orcs reached me, I was on the other side of Batallia. They killed me, and I reraised when it was clear. By the time I got back, those losers found another Sandy crew awaiting to ambush them, and before my weakness wore off, the Moonfangs were running away and the Orcs bailed shortly thereafter. (I got over 2000 XP for that battle alone).
A good suicide pull can buy NPCs enough time to clear what I left behind or to isolate an certain NM for 10 NPCs to unload. (I executed 2 successful suicide pulls on the quadav WHM mega boss in Bastok earlier in the week, first one to escort it to an isolated fortification for it to unload, a second one to pull it to the NPCS that popped a short distance away. That NM died and another thief executed another suicide pull on another NM of the beastmen confederate to that same area - and that NM also bit the bullet.)
Edited, Jul 16th 2008 6:02am by etnapwnzs
when its time to get tags this what I do:
Usually I start the pulling by taking out the Imps, since they can heal campaign mobs. Those Imps are gimps compared to the rest of the Beastmen Confederate, I been able to solo them as THF/WHM, using Barfira to prevent that amnesia move from sticking, and Cure III and Regen to keep myself alive (since bloody bolts don't proc on Imps and when I do use one on a different mob they will go straight to the mob for cure IV). I got Reraise for those moments where having to do a suicide pull is absolutely necessary.
during battles themselves I been starting to go as thf/whm for reraise, and executing suicide pulls - usually i just escort a certain number of mobs (without care of linking) to approaching npcs or just to an dead end so I can safely get killed and reraise when they clear out. I just pulled off a wicked suicide pull in Batallia, just kept shooting bolts at an regular orc, and when the whole entrouage had to converge on that point to wipe the sandy crew right there, I just hit Flee and Ran (with Reraise up). By the time the whole moonfang crew, the BLM orc megaboss and couple other orcs reached me, I was on the other side of Batallia. They killed me, and I reraised when it was clear. By the time I got back, those losers found another Sandy crew awaiting to ambush them, and before my weakness wore off, the Moonfangs were running away and the Orcs bailed shortly thereafter. (I got over 2000 XP for that battle alone).
A good suicide pull can buy NPCs enough time to clear what I left behind or to isolate an certain NM for 10 NPCs to unload. (I executed 2 successful suicide pulls on the quadav WHM mega boss in Bastok earlier in the week, first one to escort it to an isolated fortification for it to unload, a second one to pull it to the NPCS that popped a short distance away. That NM died and another thief executed another suicide pull on another NM of the beastmen confederate to that same area - and that NM also bit the bullet.)
Edited, Jul 16th 2008 6:02am by etnapwnzs
Awesome thread with a lot of great info. I was looking for something like this to help form a place to finally take a zone for Windy on Bahamut (other than the city).
Thanks! Rate up!
Thanks! Rate up!
Quote:
LESS QQ
no on more real note...
Great info thank you. I have been begging people to start taking our the Transporters... Thank you for the info on which mob actually heals the fort that will be of great importance.
I will start looking for the Shield Warriors!
Quote:
???? less Breasts? NO WAY!! MORE QQ or GTFO...
QQ means crying...
Anyways... Do you happen to know where I can intercept the transporters as a sandorian? I got some friends I can bring, thanks for the info.
edit: Ahh I see how the transporters work, found one also.
Edited, Jul 16th 2008 1:20pm by RippedApart
Some good responses. If Repair squads really are +5 per mob that gets to the fort, a single squad of them can easily undo a 20 minute campaign battle worth of Fortress smashing.
The real problem now becomes holding ground. When you are down to your capital city and nothing else, it seems like the AI throws every attacking enemy unit at that one area, instead of dividing its attacks among the several held areas. This makes sense in that the game launches a certain number of attacks and if there is only one valid target, all the forces hit that zone.
Sad truth is however, that if you retake only a single area, he capital city is no longer a valid target. This means that all attacking forces will be scrambled to the single zone that the nation holds. On Fairy the non-stop assaults on Winy Waters [S] are now replaced with non-stop attacks on Meriphataud [S]. It is much harder to hold and we have zero influence, with the Yagudo bar at full. Yikes.
I think the only solution is to either: have a massive defensive force constantly camp the held zone, or try to get at least two alliances to take over two different areas on a Saturday night.
The real problem now becomes holding ground. When you are down to your capital city and nothing else, it seems like the AI throws every attacking enemy unit at that one area, instead of dividing its attacks among the several held areas. This makes sense in that the game launches a certain number of attacks and if there is only one valid target, all the forces hit that zone.
Sad truth is however, that if you retake only a single area, he capital city is no longer a valid target. This means that all attacking forces will be scrambled to the single zone that the nation holds. On Fairy the non-stop assaults on Winy Waters [S] are now replaced with non-stop attacks on Meriphataud [S]. It is much harder to hold and we have zero influence, with the Yagudo bar at full. Yikes.
I think the only solution is to either: have a massive defensive force constantly camp the held zone, or try to get at least two alliances to take over two different areas on a Saturday night.
Kiyokatsu wrote:
Sad truth is however, that if you retake only a single area, he capital city is no longer a valid target. This means that all attacking forces will be scrambled to the single zone that the nation holds. On Fairy the non-stop assaults on Winy Waters [S] are now replaced with non-stop attacks on Meriphataud [S]. It is much harder to hold and we have zero influence, with the Yagudo bar at full. Yikes.
I think the only solution is to either: have a massive defensive force constantly camp the held zone, or try to get at least two alliances to take over two different areas on a Saturday night.
After you manage to put to a stop of the in city sieges, you focus on zones that the beastmen hold, not the zones the allied forces are holding. As long Windurst has one region besides Windurst Waters, the beastmen cannot attack Windurst Waters no matter what. Another advantage is that you can rebuild your prosperity and do more damaging campaign ops to undermine the beastmen even further.
very important bump
today is the day to consider intercepting those transporters and pilgrims
today is the day to consider intercepting those transporters and pilgrims
It's already been touched on in the the op, but I'd like to stress how important it is to kill off the Fiendish Leechkeepers before the campaign battle actually begins. All they really do is spam cure 4 during the fight, so being able to take all/most of them out before people show up is a HUGE advantage to you. They don't hit hard at all so a variety of jobs can solo them rather easily, some a little easier than others because the first few minutes are tough since the mob has a million buffs on it.
Nominated for legendary threads and stickes. ^_^
Amanada (Cerberus-Retired) (aka MaiNoKen/Steven)
-- Thank you for the fun times in Vana'diel
Art for the sake of art itself is an idle sentence.
Art for the sake of truth, for the sake of what is
beautiful and good — that is the creed I seek.
- George Sand
A designer knows he has achieved perfection,
not when there is nothing left to add,
but when there is nothing left to take away.
- Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
-- Thank you for the fun times in Vana'diel
Art for the sake of art itself is an idle sentence.
Art for the sake of truth, for the sake of what is
beautiful and good — that is the creed I seek.
- George Sand
A designer knows he has achieved perfection,
not when there is nothing left to add,
but when there is nothing left to take away.
- Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
Pretty much off-topic, but:
Congratulations!
Kiyokatsu wrote:
I have a brand new baby
Congratulations!
FFXI-Garuda 2003-2009; Lakshmi 2011-8/20/13 (retired)
FFXIV: ARR - Ghost Bear, Balmung server
FFXIV: ARR - Ghost Bear, Balmung server
This info is taken from the translation over on BG of the Gamewatch Interview. Hopefully it can shed some light on how to approach Campaign battles:
Source: http://www.bluegartrls.com/forum/showthread.php?t=60552&page=4
There is a whole lot more info on campaign, but this snippet at least pertains to the OP's topic.
Source: http://www.bluegartrls.com/forum/showthread.php?t=60552&page=4
There is a whole lot more info on campaign, but this snippet at least pertains to the OP's topic.
Quote:
How Do We Repel Beastmen Invading Cities?
Could would possibly get a hint as to how we can effectively repel invading Beastmen during these tough battles?
Ito: Think “Tactical Assessment.†Rather than simply defending your own city, if you dare to go on the offensive, you may be able to turn the tide of battle. Cities are getting attacked frequently I believe, because the circumstances to trigger an attack, i.e. beastmen controlling the surrounding areas, is always fulfilled. If you manage to take back control of one of those areas, than this will not happen.
When a city is attacked, it directly hurts their war funds and technological power. That country will then find itself in a downward spiral, and they have to break that chain of decline. By taking back an area into their control, they can once again store up war funds and make a recovery.
So, taking back a single area will make a huge difference?
Ito: Another loss will continue the downward spiral, but troops that win get stronger, and troops that lose get weaker. This refers to just that one set of troops. If a unit that loses continuously, say a Sand’Orian unit, those soldiers will progressively get weaker. If no players arrive, they will continue to fight, but they will be defeated soon after appearing. This creates a spiral of enemy wins and ally losses.
Are you saying enemies and allies work on an experience points-like system? So, supporting NPCs is a good way to build national strength?
Ito: That’s right. To make a comeback, there are also Campaign Ops. Depending on the type you perform, you will improve different aspects. For example, repeatedly doing soldier training in Campaign Ops will raise the average strength of your soldiers. Similarly, if you perform Ops related to fund-raising and procurement of goods, those things will be improved.
However, you cannot achieve a full comeback on Campaign Ops alone. To do so, you must also change the military strategies of your nation. If you get things flowing in the right direction, good things will happen…
The system really is complicated. (laughs) I don’t think players knew that ally and enemy NPC strength changed with the status of the nation.
Ito: We heard a lot about enemies being too weak at first, and after that, they became too strong. Here we have a base level from which things can deviate, but the range is not that wide. More importantly, when soldiers return home victorious and level up, training them vigorously is a big part of strengthening them.
Could would possibly get a hint as to how we can effectively repel invading Beastmen during these tough battles?
Ito: Think “Tactical Assessment.†Rather than simply defending your own city, if you dare to go on the offensive, you may be able to turn the tide of battle. Cities are getting attacked frequently I believe, because the circumstances to trigger an attack, i.e. beastmen controlling the surrounding areas, is always fulfilled. If you manage to take back control of one of those areas, than this will not happen.
When a city is attacked, it directly hurts their war funds and technological power. That country will then find itself in a downward spiral, and they have to break that chain of decline. By taking back an area into their control, they can once again store up war funds and make a recovery.
So, taking back a single area will make a huge difference?
Ito: Another loss will continue the downward spiral, but troops that win get stronger, and troops that lose get weaker. This refers to just that one set of troops. If a unit that loses continuously, say a Sand’Orian unit, those soldiers will progressively get weaker. If no players arrive, they will continue to fight, but they will be defeated soon after appearing. This creates a spiral of enemy wins and ally losses.
Are you saying enemies and allies work on an experience points-like system? So, supporting NPCs is a good way to build national strength?
Ito: That’s right. To make a comeback, there are also Campaign Ops. Depending on the type you perform, you will improve different aspects. For example, repeatedly doing soldier training in Campaign Ops will raise the average strength of your soldiers. Similarly, if you perform Ops related to fund-raising and procurement of goods, those things will be improved.
However, you cannot achieve a full comeback on Campaign Ops alone. To do so, you must also change the military strategies of your nation. If you get things flowing in the right direction, good things will happen…
The system really is complicated. (laughs) I don’t think players knew that ally and enemy NPC strength changed with the status of the nation.
Ito: We heard a lot about enemies being too weak at first, and after that, they became too strong. Here we have a base level from which things can deviate, but the range is not that wide. More importantly, when soldiers return home victorious and level up, training them vigorously is a big part of strengthening them.
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