I am in the process of working with a group of people who recently entered the FFXI for the first time using the free trials that recently became available. So far, these are the reasons they will not continue their subscription:
1. On Asura, in Bastok, Sandoria, and Windurst, there is nearly no gear in the AH. No just low-level gear, but no gear. Last time I checked, in the Armor > Body category in Bastok there was a grand total of 17 pieces for sale. Sandoria and Windurst were not much better. Higher level players have moved to Jeuno/Whitegate and the gear available at lower levels is spread between the three cities' auction houses. By the time new players are high enough level to travel to another city, they have outleveled the gear they were looking for. Furthermore, when equal-level gear is not available in the new cities' AHs, and the NPC are selling even-level gear for outrageous prices, they feel their time and efforts were a waste. During a 14-30 day trial the game is "too much work, and not enough fun."
2. Running from one zone to another takes forever. You spend too much time running through zones, waiting for party, and running back and forth through the cities to do quests. Too much time is spent traveling and not really doing anything else.
3. They can't begin to see the point of crafting because even at low levels ingredients are so expensive, and the results are so hard to sell.
4. Doing quests is near useless because the items they give don't sell and the gil rewards are not high enough to justify the needed time investment to complete them. In the time it takes to complete a quest, they could make 3x as much gil via farming.
Now, believe me, I remember being at the bottom of this game myself, struggling to earn my gil and spending hours running from zone to zone. I've been there and I worked through it. To me, most of these complaints just make me want to respond, "So, it's not the game for you. Uninstall." But another part of me is concerned that if the game isn't fun for new players, than the lifespan of the game as a whole is lessened.
Is the game strong enough to survive without new players? Or is there some statistic out there that shows that players are staying, and my group is an exception. Maybe the specific things that I've listed don't need to be fixed, but I just wondered if making the game more noob-friendly is even a concern to the players and devs.
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I pretty much agree with everything you said. Starting out in this game and becoming successful is very difficult. But like you said, its not for some people, while others enjoy it. Thats just how it is, but a problem none the less.
I'm going to state that first off I've been drinking a lil bit so what I'm about to say may not make a lot of sense. Though I do think this... The game has changed for new players from what it used to be. Those of us who are loyal to this game have a different growing expierence then most of the new players now do. You see when I first began the game I picked up some LS where the highest lvl person was 45, and we thought that was intesnse.
Now days 75 is just well 75 a lot of people have them and its not sacred like it used to be. The magic and the memories of the game are not the same for us as they are for most new people. To me it's like going to disney world for the first time there was some real emotion in that. Now when I go with my friends or wife they just want to ride the rides but I will always see that castle as somthing much more then just some man mad brick house.
In other words vet players have appreciation for the game for what they went though all those early level struggles and all the low level "lets try and kill the 2-3 dragon" events are gone. Now its "2-3 Dragon COMMON!!! almost any job can solo that!" It's not the same for new players as it was for us back when 10k exp per hour was unheard of.
Now days 75 is just well 75 a lot of people have them and its not sacred like it used to be. The magic and the memories of the game are not the same for us as they are for most new people. To me it's like going to disney world for the first time there was some real emotion in that. Now when I go with my friends or wife they just want to ride the rides but I will always see that castle as somthing much more then just some man mad brick house.
In other words vet players have appreciation for the game for what they went though all those early level struggles and all the low level "lets try and kill the 2-3 dragon" events are gone. Now its "2-3 Dragon COMMON!!! almost any job can solo that!" It's not the same for new players as it was for us back when 10k exp per hour was unheard of.
At around 30-40 you can do enough money quests to keep you going, getting there is the hardest part. I have faith in you, Fields of Valor, don't let me down m(__)m
A fairly good post in which alot of new players probally face. However there some distinct difference a veteran player could help a new player out with
1. On all jobs I can buy a gear to 20 from npcs. At 20 you can go to jueno to get new gear.
2. Oupost warps. Outpost warps. Outpost warps. You can op to valkrum at 10. to Quifim at 20. You see a theme? And outpost are available to new players.
3. To expensive. O.o 1-20 for most crafts are dirt cheap. I went 1-10 on woodworking for around 20k for materials I bought off the woodworking guild and turn aorund and sold the finished product to npcs.
4. Quests, it's been ages since they where worth it for the money. Doing quests for the longest time has only been for fame to get access to quests that give r/ex gear, special fights and otherwise expensive spells and gear.(Utsusemi aspir drain teleport/recall spells.) (Star necklace, avatars, etc)
It's definitely what alot of new players face when starting. And players really should make use of the mentor system. This way veteran players can tell them all the tricks that are general knowledge now.
1. On all jobs I can buy a gear to 20 from npcs. At 20 you can go to jueno to get new gear.
2. Oupost warps. Outpost warps. Outpost warps. You can op to valkrum at 10. to Quifim at 20. You see a theme? And outpost are available to new players.
3. To expensive. O.o 1-20 for most crafts are dirt cheap. I went 1-10 on woodworking for around 20k for materials I bought off the woodworking guild and turn aorund and sold the finished product to npcs.
4. Quests, it's been ages since they where worth it for the money. Doing quests for the longest time has only been for fame to get access to quests that give r/ex gear, special fights and otherwise expensive spells and gear.(Utsusemi aspir drain teleport/recall spells.) (Star necklace, avatars, etc)
It's definitely what alot of new players face when starting. And players really should make use of the mentor system. This way veteran players can tell them all the tricks that are general knowledge now.
What I want to say, and what initially had me kinda grumbling while in PC beta many moons ago, was that if you start the game alone without any friends alongside you, you'll probably be more likely to lose interest as there's a lot of stuff to learn initially and one might not know where to go to learn about said things. I know when beta closed, I wasn't particularly up for buying the game until I had a few friends mention interest. They didn't last too long, but by then, I'd established some more ties on Fairy and managed to plod my way along until now.
Anyway, their reasons aren't too far off base. Traffic in starter towns is low, but I disagree on NPC armor being prohibitively expensive. Just a matter of them knowing to get Signet and get a feel for the AH, as a few k can get you level 7/8 stuff, and by the time 10/11 rolls around, you've hopefully gathered enough to go from there.
Think part of the zone issue that, while they are big, one might not know all the quickest or safest routes. I'm not sure if these people are trying to make parties under level 10, but with the EP/DC update, wasting time just sitting around LFG really shouldn't be happening. Perhaps the Fields of Valor thing will help this one out a bit.
Crafting IS in a funk, and I say this with a ******** of craft levels under my belt. NAs had a difficult climb with the JPs manipulating markets, and to this day any player can feel the after effects. It's hard to care about crafting when there are so many high level crafters and so very few items are in demand across all levels that aren't just NM drops. Unless a newbie is doing some Cooking/Fishing symbiotic relationship, I wouldn't advise anyone to pick up crafting unless they're sitting on a fat chunk of gil already.
Anyway, their reasons aren't too far off base. Traffic in starter towns is low, but I disagree on NPC armor being prohibitively expensive. Just a matter of them knowing to get Signet and get a feel for the AH, as a few k can get you level 7/8 stuff, and by the time 10/11 rolls around, you've hopefully gathered enough to go from there.
Think part of the zone issue that, while they are big, one might not know all the quickest or safest routes. I'm not sure if these people are trying to make parties under level 10, but with the EP/DC update, wasting time just sitting around LFG really shouldn't be happening. Perhaps the Fields of Valor thing will help this one out a bit.
Crafting IS in a funk, and I say this with a ******** of craft levels under my belt. NAs had a difficult climb with the JPs manipulating markets, and to this day any player can feel the after effects. It's hard to care about crafting when there are so many high level crafters and so very few items are in demand across all levels that aren't just NM drops. Unless a newbie is doing some Cooking/Fishing symbiotic relationship, I wouldn't advise anyone to pick up crafting unless they're sitting on a fat chunk of gil already.
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I agree with your points
I remember what it was like back in NA release too. The biggest difference
between then and now is theres were a lot more people in the same boat as
you.
Most peple here are vets with one or more jobs at 75. Most will say "well you can solo now" Well its a lot easier for a Vet to solo then a fresh new face.
Bottem line is most people forgot how painful that first time to 75 is,
and without other's there goin through it also theres less chance you get help for everything from 2-3 to limit breaks, missions, ect...
Cannen wrote:
Now, believe me, I remember being at the bottom of this game myself, struggling to earn my gil and spending hours running from zone to zone. I've been there and I worked through it. To me, most of these complaints just make me want to respond, "So, it's not the game for you. Uninstall." But another part of me is concerned that if the game isn't fun for new players, than the lifespan of the game as a whole is lessened.
I remember what it was like back in NA release too. The biggest difference
between then and now is theres were a lot more people in the same boat as
you.
Most peple here are vets with one or more jobs at 75. Most will say "well you can solo now" Well its a lot easier for a Vet to solo then a fresh new face.
Bottem line is most people forgot how painful that first time to 75 is,
and without other's there goin through it also theres less chance you get help for everything from 2-3 to limit breaks, missions, ect...
Scholar
22 posts
1. With a little research, you can buy most of your gear pre-20 from NPCs. As a newbie, it's not exactly easy to navigate most FFXI websites to research what gear you need, and running from NPC to NPC to compare prices isn't their idea of fun. It doesn't help that you can see from the AH that pre-20 gear with much better stats is available somewhere in the world and that you must rely on a much higher level character to make that item available in the AH. By the time you could go get it yourself, you don't need it any more.
2. We are doing outpost warps, and we just finished getting our crag crystals. It would have been nice if the free chocobo passes from the new tutorial quest would work from the crags instead of just the city stables. 2 minutes of riding time is nearly useless.
3. Well, even 20k is still too high for this new party. They don't like me to help them *too* much because it feels like powerleveling. They have told me that if they'd known it was easier to level a craft in different cities, they'd have started there instead. But how were they to know?
4. I suppose if there was some way to choose from a limited number of awards, for example if you could choose to get a robe or leather armor or 500 exp as your reward, they would be more worth doing at low level.
Actually I could offer all kinds of suggestions for the "fixing" of said "problems" but it would just feel like I was spinning my wheels :)
My main question is, are people concerned about how new players have to struggle, more now than ever because of the higher-level player base? Are we concerned about fewer and fewer new players coming into the game because of that? And would you be disappointed, as a high level player, to see the devs shift their focus a little towards encouraging new players?
PS. I hadn't heard about Fields of Valor before. I Googled it. Sounds kinda cool!
2. We are doing outpost warps, and we just finished getting our crag crystals. It would have been nice if the free chocobo passes from the new tutorial quest would work from the crags instead of just the city stables. 2 minutes of riding time is nearly useless.
3. Well, even 20k is still too high for this new party. They don't like me to help them *too* much because it feels like powerleveling. They have told me that if they'd known it was easier to level a craft in different cities, they'd have started there instead. But how were they to know?
4. I suppose if there was some way to choose from a limited number of awards, for example if you could choose to get a robe or leather armor or 500 exp as your reward, they would be more worth doing at low level.
Actually I could offer all kinds of suggestions for the "fixing" of said "problems" but it would just feel like I was spinning my wheels :)
My main question is, are people concerned about how new players have to struggle, more now than ever because of the higher-level player base? Are we concerned about fewer and fewer new players coming into the game because of that? And would you be disappointed, as a high level player, to see the devs shift their focus a little towards encouraging new players?
PS. I hadn't heard about Fields of Valor before. I Googled it. Sounds kinda cool!
I agree that AH is a problem and I say it's about freaking time they went ahead and connected all of the AHs together. It's impossible to find what you want sometimes and traveling to Jeuno or Whitegate simply because that's where everyone lists their stuff is annoying and a pointless waste of time.
Summary: LINK ALL OF THE AUCTION HOUSES TOGETHER ALREADY.
Scholar
22 posts
I agree that linking at least the Bastok/Windy/Sandy AHs would help. That way new players from all cities would have access to supplies from the other cities. There would be a low level AH and a high level AH.
Cannen,
your points are right, but you mentioned that you will help this group of people, being you already in the game.
Some advice (some people above already pointed very good points)
1) Gears:
You have access to Jeuno. Take normal gear (nothing +1) from the AH.
It would be cheap and your guys will be fine with that staff at leas till lv 35-40. Once reached that level, the guys will be able to have enough gil to start to go ahead in gearing themself (see below)
2)travelling will be hard at the beginning (below lv20), but on the other side, you really don't need to move much. close to each starting cities you can easly rach lv 20 on adiacent dugeons. At lv 20 you can make the choko quest, and things will start to "move" faster. Starting the OPs will help. Once the guys start to get enough CP they can also get Warp >Scrolls, which cut the traveling time a lot.
3) forget crafting at the beginning. You will avoid frustration and save money.
Do instead something else. Give each guys 10 pots and 10 tree cuttings. That will be an initial investments of 14K + 30K (dipends on the servers). After 17 days the folks will be able to resell a stack of sapling for 75-80K. From then on, they will have a steady flow of income just checking the plants onece a day. After that they could expand their gardening activities with 2-3 mules and even try some elemental ores.
4)Quests are necessary for fame, story line and simply understand the game. This is one of the nices aspects of FFXI, and if your friends are here only for the grinding and be 75 in a couple of week, they got the wrong game.
And this bring us to the last note.
FFXI has still a major USP in comparison to the rst of the Online Games out there. Storyline and content. When your friends will start the Rank mission chains, Zilart, CoP and so on, they will see the difference.
And you are luky to have a group of people to paly with from the beginning.
I whish I could be so lucky to find new guys to start from the beginning again.
Regards
your points are right, but you mentioned that you will help this group of people, being you already in the game.
Some advice (some people above already pointed very good points)
1) Gears:
You have access to Jeuno. Take normal gear (nothing +1) from the AH.
It would be cheap and your guys will be fine with that staff at leas till lv 35-40. Once reached that level, the guys will be able to have enough gil to start to go ahead in gearing themself (see below)
2)travelling will be hard at the beginning (below lv20), but on the other side, you really don't need to move much. close to each starting cities you can easly rach lv 20 on adiacent dugeons. At lv 20 you can make the choko quest, and things will start to "move" faster. Starting the OPs will help. Once the guys start to get enough CP they can also get Warp >Scrolls, which cut the traveling time a lot.
3) forget crafting at the beginning. You will avoid frustration and save money.
Do instead something else. Give each guys 10 pots and 10 tree cuttings. That will be an initial investments of 14K + 30K (dipends on the servers). After 17 days the folks will be able to resell a stack of sapling for 75-80K. From then on, they will have a steady flow of income just checking the plants onece a day. After that they could expand their gardening activities with 2-3 mules and even try some elemental ores.
4)Quests are necessary for fame, story line and simply understand the game. This is one of the nices aspects of FFXI, and if your friends are here only for the grinding and be 75 in a couple of week, they got the wrong game.
And this bring us to the last note.
FFXI has still a major USP in comparison to the rst of the Online Games out there. Storyline and content. When your friends will start the Rank mission chains, Zilart, CoP and so on, they will see the difference.
And you are luky to have a group of people to paly with from the beginning.
I whish I could be so lucky to find new guys to start from the beginning again.
Regards
Right now, I'm using a starter character to play while I wait for a family member to reactivate my actual account. I rarely play on it. I don't know if my experience is just skewed from having high level crafts and fishing, and being used to having gil adequate enough to get by, but it just isn't fun. I'll give you my reasons.
1) There's nobody to talk to!! Seriously, this is a main part of what gets to me! You can't find anyone leveling outside who's actually willing to party up, even just for kicks. When you're a low level player the world is just so incredibly dead.
2) Very fast solo leveling. Okay, give me some time to explain this one, I know it can seem a bit, well, crazy. I don't know if this has a lot to do with my expectations of gear from playing for so long, but you have almost no time to actually make the money for expensive (remember, when you're new, 4k gil looks like a lot!) I remember fishing up moat carp just to get some basic armor, and whew if that isn't difficult! To a new player with no grasp of Final Fantasy's economy, imagine how frustrating this is! Thankfully, now it's at least feasible to solo past the early Valkurm levels :) I don't ever remember really farming for my first 17 levels, sure my gear may have been craptastic, but at least I was out of starter gear by level 10!
3) Things just don't sell. I know that you should never expect anything at all to sell quickly, but I find that in starter towns it takes ages for anything (except maybe crystals) to sell.
Keep in mind that I knew which items would sell nicely, and I knew how to work the AH. I had veteran knowledge guide my low level actions, but what does a lowbie have? A veritable ghost town and an empty auction house.
1) There's nobody to talk to!! Seriously, this is a main part of what gets to me! You can't find anyone leveling outside who's actually willing to party up, even just for kicks. When you're a low level player the world is just so incredibly dead.
2) Very fast solo leveling. Okay, give me some time to explain this one, I know it can seem a bit, well, crazy. I don't know if this has a lot to do with my expectations of gear from playing for so long, but you have almost no time to actually make the money for expensive (remember, when you're new, 4k gil looks like a lot!) I remember fishing up moat carp just to get some basic armor, and whew if that isn't difficult! To a new player with no grasp of Final Fantasy's economy, imagine how frustrating this is! Thankfully, now it's at least feasible to solo past the early Valkurm levels :) I don't ever remember really farming for my first 17 levels, sure my gear may have been craptastic, but at least I was out of starter gear by level 10!
3) Things just don't sell. I know that you should never expect anything at all to sell quickly, but I find that in starter towns it takes ages for anything (except maybe crystals) to sell.
Keep in mind that I knew which items would sell nicely, and I knew how to work the AH. I had veteran knowledge guide my low level actions, but what does a lowbie have? A veritable ghost town and an empty auction house.
Scholar
22 posts
Calprimus, I really appreciate your advice. ^_^
1) We did do this recently. I went to Jeuno, one of us was in Windy, and one in Sandy, and we finally managed to get some decent gear between us.
2) Everyone is dreading the Run to Jeuno, especially after we found out that our free chocopasses won't help. I remember making that run myself so long ago. It was an adventure, for me, but I think they're tired of the notion of having to depend on high levels for nearly every meaningful quest.
3) I know that they *should* wait to craft, but it would still be nice if new players could try out crafting. Why should crafting only be a high-level activity? There is a lot I could do to get them money. I could give them each 50k, but I shouldn't have to do that for the game to be fun.
4) I agree that the quests are very good for content, but if you are doing them mostly for content, then it shouldn't be so hard to figure out what to do, and it shouldn't take so long to do it.
1) We did do this recently. I went to Jeuno, one of us was in Windy, and one in Sandy, and we finally managed to get some decent gear between us.
2) Everyone is dreading the Run to Jeuno, especially after we found out that our free chocopasses won't help. I remember making that run myself so long ago. It was an adventure, for me, but I think they're tired of the notion of having to depend on high levels for nearly every meaningful quest.
3) I know that they *should* wait to craft, but it would still be nice if new players could try out crafting. Why should crafting only be a high-level activity? There is a lot I could do to get them money. I could give them each 50k, but I shouldn't have to do that for the game to be fun.
4) I agree that the quests are very good for content, but if you are doing them mostly for content, then it shouldn't be so hard to figure out what to do, and it shouldn't take so long to do it.
Scholar
22 posts
A veritable ghost town an an empty auction house is right. No one wants to hang out at that level because it's less time and work to solo than to make a party of two or three. Most of us accept that at low levels, you should solo, but it's a shame that you are punished so harshly in the area of exp if you want to duo with someone.
Quote:
1. With a little research, you can buy most of your gear pre-20 from NPCs. As a newbie, it's not exactly easy to navigate most FFXI websites to research what gear you need, and running from NPC to NPC to compare prices isn't their idea of fun. It doesn't help that you can see from the AH that pre-20 gear with much better stats is available somewhere in the world and that you must rely on a much higher level character to make that item available in the AH. By the time you could go get it yourself, you don't need it any more.
Gear you can't buy from NPCS in the starter cities, for a level 16 war in sand o'ria:
Weapon- you can't obtain from an npc either your most current axe or great axe. You can quest a level 11 axe as a sandorian, but you can't obtain a great axe period without buying one from selbina or mhaura, and it is level 12.
Shield- you can get from NPCs.
Visible armor- you can buy the brass subligar set from vendors at 11, but anything else is crafted.
rings- zip. nothing with any real stats is sold at npc.
earrings-also zip.
back-you can get a rabbit mantle or cape at vend, but anything else is crafted only, unless you want to pay absurd sums at the leathercrafting guild.
food-nothing worth anything is vended.
ranged-you can get, but nothing really beyond 7.
You can ask linkmates to shop for you in jeuno, but people don't understand you can't get a lot of things from vendors at low level. Some things you can get, like linen robes, only sell for one nation, and a lot of low level gear is sold way out in selbina. You can buy a few things from guilds, but anyting 10ish and up is cost-prohibitive.
It is a real issue, so make sure you craft some lowbie gear on occasion and put it in your local ah.
Cannen wrote:
1. On Asura, in Bastok, Sandoria, and Windurst, there is nearly no gear in the AH. No just low-level gear, but no gear. Last time I checked, in the Armor > Body category in Bastok there was a grand total of 17 pieces for sale. Sandoria and Windurst were not much better. Higher level players have moved to Jeuno/Whitegate and the gear available at lower levels is spread between the three cities' auction houses. By the time new players are high enough level to travel to another city, they have outleveled the gear they were looking for. Furthermore, when equal-level gear is not available in the new cities' AHs, and the NPC are selling even-level gear for outrageous prices, they feel their time and efforts were a waste. During a 14-30 day trial the game is "too much work, and not enough fun."
I am personally not sure why SE is hanging on to this idea of different auction houses in the game. they should have merged them into one years ago imo.
When it comes to new players SE should roll out the red carpet in all honesty. I'm talking a free anniversary ring, 1 auction house and cheap gear that is either sold to them from NPCs or quested for at least the first 20 levels of the game.
I don't know. Maybe the new December update is going to fix many of these problems.
Cannen wrote:
2. Running from one zone to another takes forever. You spend too much time running through zones, waiting for party, and running back and forth through the cities to do quests. Too much time is spent traveling and not really doing anything else.
Outpost warping is an amazing feature in the game but once again SE punishes new players just for being new players. All outpost warps should be available when starting the game and supply quests should give some other kind of reward.
Traveling in the game can be a bit of a hassle but only for new players. As a high level player I can get from point a to b in practically seconds these days. All that really needs to happen SE needs to not punish new players in this case.
Cannen wrote:
3. They can't begin to see the point of crafting because even at low levels ingredients are so expensive, and the results are so hard to sell.
Crafting in FFXI fundementaly different from WOW or most other modern MMOs. This is not a bad thing honestly.
You can expect a hell of a lot from your player base as far as difficulty provided you ramp them up properly. Crafting in FFXI has ZERO ramp up as far as difficulty. Either you know exactly what you are doing and have a long term plan or you waste your money and time horribly.
Monsters in all starting areas rarely drop items you can use for basic synths that give items that appeal to new players and the only way to even learn about synths and how useful they will be too you is if you look them up on FFXIAH.com... Its a little too steep of a learning curve .. crafting should not require so much effort until after 40-60 or so and below those levels should be synths that are useful for people at lower levels...
Cannen wrote:
4. Doing quests is near useless because the items they give don't sell and the gil rewards are not high enough to justify the needed time investment to complete them. In the time it takes to complete a quest, they could make 3x as much gil via farming.
Quests in FFXI are a logical train wreck... They offer interesting story telling but 90% of the player base just wants loot. Often times quests don't even follow basic logical progression. They are very rarely fun at all involving zero combat or zero tangible reward..
All I can say is cover up the old system with something new and better. The old quest system is an epic eyesore.. While missions are quite amazing they too arent perfect.
Campaign is a great example of a system that is bright enough to cover the flaws with the old system.
Cannen wrote:
Now, believe me, I remember being at the bottom of this game myself, struggling to earn my gil and spending hours running from zone to zone. I've been there and I worked through it. To me, most of these complaints just make me want to respond, "So, it's not the game for you. Uninstall." But another part of me is concerned that if the game isn't fun for new players, than the lifespan of the game as a whole is lessened.
FFXI has been growing strong as far as I can tell because it has plenty of retention carrots for players that have broke the new player barrier. While this can be a cute analogy for why the cream of the crop should be the only people playing anyway its also incredibly short sighted and ignorant.
Your concern is valid and warranted.
Cannen wrote:
Is the game strong enough to survive without new players? Or is there some statistic out there that shows that players are staying, and my group is an exception. Maybe the specific things that I've listed don't need to be fixed, but I just wondered if making the game more noob-friendly is even a concern to the players and devs.
Yes the game is going to remain strong for awhile simply because old players are fairly unlikely to want to leave. I can speak for myself on this front. SE has a strong focus in rewarding your efforts however they have placed these rewards in the wrong place and in many cases provided no proper ramp up in difficulty creating a new player barrior where there should not be one.
Old players are rewarded for long term efforts, for breaking these barriers, however new players simply smack into a brick wall.
For example, can you explain how it effects new players when the signet bonuses pale in comparison to sigil bonuses?
Get a good xp party in Qufim being considerably harder than putting together a solid merit party?
Merit party get sanction bonuses while new players get a small list of bonuses that are not tangible unless explained to them. Sanction should offer very tangible bonuses.
SE needs to learn where it is necessary relieve tensions on new players. To make it possible for new players to enjoy their experience with out being forced to navigate web pages to finish quests. With out being forced into grouping until the mid to late 50s when campaign becomes an option.
Because I guarantee you that people would be far more interested in staying with FFXI if one of the first things they have a chance to experience is a campaign battle while their level is artificially bumped up to 74 when their tags on active.
Roll out your red carpet SE and people will stay longer I promise. All of these requirements on new players is a determent to retaining new players.
I would say the hardest part for new players is the communties mind set at this point in the games life.
I am not saying all players, but I myself have felt this way as well at times.
It is that most players are into helping with endgame stuff and not really the newbie stuff anymore.
Rank 3 Mission: I have helped over 100 people get rank 3, but almost all of them were atleast level 25. Recently with the trial, I am in a very large social shell that got a Plethora of the trial players and alot of them were asking for Rank 3 before they even had their sub jobs. Maybe it is just me, but I was not willing to help a level 14 with no sub get Rank 3, why not wait till your 25?, I always did.
Limit Breaks (Mainly LB1): Alot of players are seen shouting for help with LB1 items and I have helped a few of them out, but it seems most players are unwilling to help players they do not know well anymore, where back in the day you would be willing to help a complete stranger. How can you really get to know a player well by level 50 anyways?. Why not help them out?.
Artifact Armor: Well most players just go solo their keys and coffers now, but new players don't have that option.
To me it seems that the population of FFXI is still very helpful, but mainly helpful with endgame events, and focusing on only helping friends and not players they do not know. I am not saying all players, just alot more are like that then say 2 years ago, they just got sick of helping with the above mentioned quests/missions.
This can really hurt the new player population and if we want this great game to survive, we need to get back to the old mindset of if "I have nothing going on at the moment, why not help this player I don't know out"
ISN'T THAT HOW WE ALL GOT TO KNOW EACHOTHER IN THE FIRST PLACE?
Edited, Nov 22nd 2008 8:24pm by Proroc
I am not saying all players, but I myself have felt this way as well at times.
It is that most players are into helping with endgame stuff and not really the newbie stuff anymore.
Rank 3 Mission: I have helped over 100 people get rank 3, but almost all of them were atleast level 25. Recently with the trial, I am in a very large social shell that got a Plethora of the trial players and alot of them were asking for Rank 3 before they even had their sub jobs. Maybe it is just me, but I was not willing to help a level 14 with no sub get Rank 3, why not wait till your 25?, I always did.
Limit Breaks (Mainly LB1): Alot of players are seen shouting for help with LB1 items and I have helped a few of them out, but it seems most players are unwilling to help players they do not know well anymore, where back in the day you would be willing to help a complete stranger. How can you really get to know a player well by level 50 anyways?. Why not help them out?.
Artifact Armor: Well most players just go solo their keys and coffers now, but new players don't have that option.
To me it seems that the population of FFXI is still very helpful, but mainly helpful with endgame events, and focusing on only helping friends and not players they do not know. I am not saying all players, just alot more are like that then say 2 years ago, they just got sick of helping with the above mentioned quests/missions.
This can really hurt the new player population and if we want this great game to survive, we need to get back to the old mindset of if "I have nothing going on at the moment, why not help this player I don't know out"
ISN'T THAT HOW WE ALL GOT TO KNOW EACHOTHER IN THE FIRST PLACE?
Edited, Nov 22nd 2008 8:24pm by Proroc
Honestly every last one of us went through the very same thing when we started. What you see today with the population is the people that sucked it up and pushed on through the difficult 1-20 grind with everything that comes inbetween. No clue how to make money. No clue how to raise. There aren't any phoenix downs to be had. What's this food/drink stuff. How in the world do I craft. Oh god /shout I'm being chased by beastmen @ H-6.
It was rough for us all but those that remain today were dedicated enough to suck up the suckage so the fun could be had. Does that mean it has to suck before fun is had? No. But that's how it is. It's really no different from other games. You come late to the show and you'll get max suckage. Be there at the start and it'll suck alot less when you aren't playing catch up. Though, I imagine it's replaced by "wth is my online guides so I know what in the world to do."
It was rough for us all but those that remain today were dedicated enough to suck up the suckage so the fun could be had. Does that mean it has to suck before fun is had? No. But that's how it is. It's really no different from other games. You come late to the show and you'll get max suckage. Be there at the start and it'll suck alot less when you aren't playing catch up. Though, I imagine it's replaced by "wth is my online guides so I know what in the world to do."
I would also like to chime in and reassert that the HUD needs to be more customizable. First impressions do have a lasting effect on peoples likelihood to remain playing!
I am not saying it should be as robust as WOWs HUD but it should be a lot better than it is right now. Add cool features to the hud like mini-maps and a more modern sleek design with neat features that you see in Windower right now.
research popular addons from WOW and windower and seriously consider implementing similar systems to FFXI as an option.
I am not saying it should be as robust as WOWs HUD but it should be a lot better than it is right now. Add cool features to the hud like mini-maps and a more modern sleek design with neat features that you see in Windower right now.
research popular addons from WOW and windower and seriously consider implementing similar systems to FFXI as an option.
Warlord Proroc wrote:
ISN'T THAT HOW WE ALL GOT TO KNOW EACHOTHER IN THE FIRST PLACE?
Not really, I got to know people by getting a linkshell.
His Excellency Aethien wrote:
Almalieque wrote:
If no one debated with me, then I wouldn't post here anymore.
gbaji wrote:
I'm not getting my news from anywhere Joph.
Like sweetumssama mentioned, there's just nobody to talk to. I experienced that recently, from soloing on a new job and it feels like a single player game. The game feels dead. For a newbie, it's worse because I at least have a friend list of people to talk with and I have enough knowledge to vision where I'm going with what I'm doing. In other words, I'm on a path that is clear to me to motivate myself through whereas for the newbie, a cloudy one.
Some advice:
1. Create a new linkshell for that group for them to work together in a similar situation through. The game now is not what it used to be, the experience of the now common high-level players when they were new are now different. Because of that, their advice to the new group may be exaggerating. Welcome anyone else new in sight to the linkshell for the group to develop better bonds with rather than with the high-levels.
2. Introduce some of your ingame friends to that group. Some that you feel would be willing-to-help and appropriate, and not too spoiling. They can come in handy especially whenever you're not available to help the group.
3. I won't advise crafting for anyone new. But to at least introduce it and make decent income out of it to start, without leveling it, is the yagudo necklace + lightning crystal recipe. Especially if the group is Windurstian for their convenience with the Yagudo nearby to defeat. Lightning crystals may be hard to farm for the new but there have to be some repeatable quests to earn gil enough to easily afford a stack. Some suggestions:
Windurst - Creepy Crawlies
San d'Oria - Fear of the Dark
Bastok - A Flash in the Pan
If they haven't been to Jeuno yet, have them give you the copper ingot so you can bring them there if it sells there better.
4. Introduce fishing, targeting moat carp. That can be an alternative way to get income. Again, it's more of a convenience if the group is Windurstian seeing that insect paste is from the fishing guild there in Windurst. Make sure they use a rod designed for small fish. There are rods incredibly cheap that they can afford.
5. If there's anything they need and can afford but is not available in the starting cities' AH, go to Jeuno/Whitegate to get it for them and they can pay you back with their hard earned gil.
6. Make them familiar with how outpost warp works. When I was new and didn't really know about it, I missed my opportunity to get Ronfaure outpost.
7. Whatever the lv and rank the group is at, observe and think of some goals for them to take on.
8. DON'T DROP BEASTMEN'S SEALS.
Some advice:
1. Create a new linkshell for that group for them to work together in a similar situation through. The game now is not what it used to be, the experience of the now common high-level players when they were new are now different. Because of that, their advice to the new group may be exaggerating. Welcome anyone else new in sight to the linkshell for the group to develop better bonds with rather than with the high-levels.
2. Introduce some of your ingame friends to that group. Some that you feel would be willing-to-help and appropriate, and not too spoiling. They can come in handy especially whenever you're not available to help the group.
3. I won't advise crafting for anyone new. But to at least introduce it and make decent income out of it to start, without leveling it, is the yagudo necklace + lightning crystal recipe. Especially if the group is Windurstian for their convenience with the Yagudo nearby to defeat. Lightning crystals may be hard to farm for the new but there have to be some repeatable quests to earn gil enough to easily afford a stack. Some suggestions:
Windurst - Creepy Crawlies
San d'Oria - Fear of the Dark
Bastok - A Flash in the Pan
If they haven't been to Jeuno yet, have them give you the copper ingot so you can bring them there if it sells there better.
4. Introduce fishing, targeting moat carp. That can be an alternative way to get income. Again, it's more of a convenience if the group is Windurstian seeing that insect paste is from the fishing guild there in Windurst. Make sure they use a rod designed for small fish. There are rods incredibly cheap that they can afford.
5. If there's anything they need and can afford but is not available in the starting cities' AH, go to Jeuno/Whitegate to get it for them and they can pay you back with their hard earned gil.
6. Make them familiar with how outpost warp works. When I was new and didn't really know about it, I missed my opportunity to get Ronfaure outpost.
7. Whatever the lv and rank the group is at, observe and think of some goals for them to take on.
8. DON'T DROP BEASTMEN'S SEALS.
Reiterpallasch wrote:
Horst needs a 1 minute, 15 foot doom aura. Get in, get out, or @#%^ing die.
Calmus wrote:
...draining with sambas is kind of like you smack the thing and as you smack blood flies out... normally the blood would just you know fall and be red an what-not, but, with the samba your all whacked out and decide to drink the blood as it flys out. thus not adding MORE damage just taking more advantage of your damage. at least thats my take on it.
Honestly, when i solo a low level job the lowbie areas don't seem that different to when i started in May '05. This is probably because i know what to do now though.
Also aren't there some quests you can do now that get you exp and tempory items when you start a brand new character? That sure would've been nice back then.
Also aren't there some quests you can do now that get you exp and tempory items when you start a brand new character? That sure would've been nice back then.
My Movember page
Solrain wrote:
WARs can use semi-colons however we want. I once killed a guy with a semi-colon.
LordFaramir wrote:
ODESNT MATTER CAUSE I HAVE ALCHOLOL IN MY VEINGS BETCH ;3
Voldermolt wrote:
Honestly every last one of us went through the very same thing when we started. What you see today with the population is the people that sucked it up and pushed on through the difficult 1-20 grind with everything that comes inbetween. No clue how to make money. No clue how to raise. There aren't any phoenix downs to be had. What's this food/drink stuff. How in the world do I craft. Oh god /shout I'm being chased by beastmen @ H-6.
It was rough for us all but those that remain today were dedicated enough to suck up the suckage so the fun could be had. Does that mean it has to suck before fun is had? No. But that's how it is. It's really no different from other games. You come late to the show and you'll get max suckage. Be there at the start and it'll suck alot less when you aren't playing catch up. Though, I imagine it's replaced by "wth is my online guides so I know what in the world to do."
It was rough for us all but those that remain today were dedicated enough to suck up the suckage so the fun could be had. Does that mean it has to suck before fun is had? No. But that's how it is. It's really no different from other games. You come late to the show and you'll get max suckage. Be there at the start and it'll suck alot less when you aren't playing catch up. Though, I imagine it's replaced by "wth is my online guides so I know what in the world to do."
a) The enjoyment factor of later content cannot be ascertained (especially by a clueless nub)
b) There aren't any people to suck up and push through with! That's where the fun was in the beginning for a lot of people.
It's really stupid to expect someone looking for a source of leisure to slough through the beginning, when that should truthfully be the sweet spot that gets you addicted :)
Edited, Nov 22nd 2008 8:42pm by sweetumssama
Whenever I read about FFXI "problems", they're mainly about one thing. FFXI is not convenient, no matter how many points you want to separate that into. And for me, there's nothing wrong at all with the game being inconvenient. I'll elaborate a bit on the following.
1. No gear on AH in three starting cities. As people mentioned already, you're supposed to buy from NPCs. AH prices for lower level gear is overpriced anyway. Thus, should be avoided. Good/HQ gear that can't be obtained from NPC are meant for experienced players. By then, these players would have Jeuno access anyways.
2. Travelling time isn't a problem either. Yes, it's slow at the start, but it's designed so you are familiar with your immediate surroundings first before deciding to journey to the end of the continent. By then (roughly LV20), you'd have access to Chocobo which significantly reduces travelling time. At higher level, there are so many more methods to lessen travelling time such as OP Warp, Teleport, Warp, Retrace, Runic Portal, etc. Can't give Ferrari to a 12 year old straight away, you know.
3. Of course they won't see the point in crafting. Crafting isn't meant for newbies at all. Crafting is a long-term investment, only intended for serious crafters with knowledge and commitment to it.
4. I honestly don't understand why this is a problem. Okay so quest doesn't give you enough money. By comparison, you said that the time to finish the quest can net you 3x more gil. Then go farm.
Now let's see what will happen if these so called "problems" are "fixed":
1. There are armors in the AH of the three starting cities. How many people would want to buy? Not too many at all. Would newbies even have the money to buy these armor? Most likely not. So why even bother listing there to begin with? Pointless. On the contrary, by focusing the good stuff at Jeuno AH instead, these newbies have something to look forward to once they've reached Jeuno. I remember the first time I stepped into Jeuno and felt like I've actually accomplished something in the game by joining where the high level people hung out (though now it seems Whitegate is the place to be).
2. There will always be travelling time, but I'll assume that you want them all instant warp to every zone and then have supercar to ride on for really quick travelling system. Add rollerblades too for while in the cities. Sure it speeds things up, but how unrealistic would that be? This is not Tetris where you just put blocks down after one another. To go from point A to point B, of course there will be time to travel.
3. Let's make craftings easier. What will happen? Everyone will craft, and no one would want to buy the products because everyone (or their friends) can craft it themselves. All sellers, no buyers, ruined economy.
4. Let's make quests to reward players with a lot of gil. Who would farm then? Just make money from quests, and no one will need to farm. Then the crafters would complain because they will be the one who have to farm themselves for ingredients. Then they'll be so angry that they'll put products at ridiculously high price, and then the buyers would moan because the gil from quests wouldn't be enough.
Now of course I realize that those aren't exactly your own complaints, but I would like to emphasize that newbies will have to learn about the game when they're still new. There is a difference between newbies and experienced players. If everything is convenient for the newbies, they will not learn, and they'll end up stupid at higher level. We don't want that kind of players. It's better that they uninstall this game as early as they can.
As an individual, I'm not concerned at all. But for the devs, I'd say that they are actually concerned about it and thus, many things have been done in the last half year or so to make FFXI more newbie-friendly. Things that have been done include:
1. Level Sync to make forming PT easier. (search higher level people to fill up the required spot if their search comment mentioned okay for LV Sync)
2. Lowering level requirement for OP Warps. (now players can actually OP to the dunes when they still need to PT there!) Also lowering the warp cost itself.
3. More and more EXP rings (including the one for new adventurer!)
4. Campaign Ops (full EXP reward for players level 10+)
5. Constant banning of those who break ToS, this keeps prices low. While farming items' sell price would also be low, this would make reward from quests (or NPC-ing things) to be more useful.
6. Increasing EXP gain for killing EP/DC mobs.
7. Signet boost bonus.
8. Maybe more things that I don't remember at this very moment.
So I'd say that S-E do care about new players. But personally speaking, I find it perfectly acceptable to make things semi-convenient like now. There is no reason to really dumb down this game too much. Before you know it, people might be asking to solo AV as level 1 character.
1. No gear on AH in three starting cities. As people mentioned already, you're supposed to buy from NPCs. AH prices for lower level gear is overpriced anyway. Thus, should be avoided. Good/HQ gear that can't be obtained from NPC are meant for experienced players. By then, these players would have Jeuno access anyways.
2. Travelling time isn't a problem either. Yes, it's slow at the start, but it's designed so you are familiar with your immediate surroundings first before deciding to journey to the end of the continent. By then (roughly LV20), you'd have access to Chocobo which significantly reduces travelling time. At higher level, there are so many more methods to lessen travelling time such as OP Warp, Teleport, Warp, Retrace, Runic Portal, etc. Can't give Ferrari to a 12 year old straight away, you know.
3. Of course they won't see the point in crafting. Crafting isn't meant for newbies at all. Crafting is a long-term investment, only intended for serious crafters with knowledge and commitment to it.
4. I honestly don't understand why this is a problem. Okay so quest doesn't give you enough money. By comparison, you said that the time to finish the quest can net you 3x more gil. Then go farm.
Now let's see what will happen if these so called "problems" are "fixed":
1. There are armors in the AH of the three starting cities. How many people would want to buy? Not too many at all. Would newbies even have the money to buy these armor? Most likely not. So why even bother listing there to begin with? Pointless. On the contrary, by focusing the good stuff at Jeuno AH instead, these newbies have something to look forward to once they've reached Jeuno. I remember the first time I stepped into Jeuno and felt like I've actually accomplished something in the game by joining where the high level people hung out (though now it seems Whitegate is the place to be).
2. There will always be travelling time, but I'll assume that you want them all instant warp to every zone and then have supercar to ride on for really quick travelling system. Add rollerblades too for while in the cities. Sure it speeds things up, but how unrealistic would that be? This is not Tetris where you just put blocks down after one another. To go from point A to point B, of course there will be time to travel.
3. Let's make craftings easier. What will happen? Everyone will craft, and no one would want to buy the products because everyone (or their friends) can craft it themselves. All sellers, no buyers, ruined economy.
4. Let's make quests to reward players with a lot of gil. Who would farm then? Just make money from quests, and no one will need to farm. Then the crafters would complain because they will be the one who have to farm themselves for ingredients. Then they'll be so angry that they'll put products at ridiculously high price, and then the buyers would moan because the gil from quests wouldn't be enough.
Now of course I realize that those aren't exactly your own complaints, but I would like to emphasize that newbies will have to learn about the game when they're still new. There is a difference between newbies and experienced players. If everything is convenient for the newbies, they will not learn, and they'll end up stupid at higher level. We don't want that kind of players. It's better that they uninstall this game as early as they can.
Quote:
but I just wondered if making the game more noob-friendly is even a concern to the players and devs.
As an individual, I'm not concerned at all. But for the devs, I'd say that they are actually concerned about it and thus, many things have been done in the last half year or so to make FFXI more newbie-friendly. Things that have been done include:
1. Level Sync to make forming PT easier. (search higher level people to fill up the required spot if their search comment mentioned okay for LV Sync)
2. Lowering level requirement for OP Warps. (now players can actually OP to the dunes when they still need to PT there!) Also lowering the warp cost itself.
3. More and more EXP rings (including the one for new adventurer!)
4. Campaign Ops (full EXP reward for players level 10+)
5. Constant banning of those who break ToS, this keeps prices low. While farming items' sell price would also be low, this would make reward from quests (or NPC-ing things) to be more useful.
6. Increasing EXP gain for killing EP/DC mobs.
7. Signet boost bonus.
8. Maybe more things that I don't remember at this very moment.
So I'd say that S-E do care about new players. But personally speaking, I find it perfectly acceptable to make things semi-convenient like now. There is no reason to really dumb down this game too much. Before you know it, people might be asking to solo AV as level 1 character.
I know why I quit when I was still considered a newbie.
One, it takes damn near forever to figure out how to do anything in this game, espcially concerning random quests and missions, and don't you dare even ask for help, or you'll just be called "nub" with a plethora of other random insults.
Two: Like most people said... Unless you're already in an established LinkShell, this is a single player game, with basically the buyers, (AH), constantly shifting their prices around. Oh, and don't even try to join a LinkShell anymore, because if you aren't "contributing" to the LS, ie, not doing Salvage, Dynamis, whatever... Then you will definitely be kicked out five minutes after you join.
Three: Don't you dare join any random party, unless you've somehow built up 50 thousand Gil. Because if you don't have damn near perfect gear, you're "gimp' in every which way. And of course, when number one is applied, it's really hard to build up the Gil.
Quite frankly, unless it's a group of about 5+ friends joining all at once, I honestly don't see how any one can stick to this game for more than a day or two of playtime.
I mean... I never even got to level 30 to unlock the other jobs, because he people in this game were so constantly down right rude, that I honestly didn't see how I was going to even get to 30.
One, it takes damn near forever to figure out how to do anything in this game, espcially concerning random quests and missions, and don't you dare even ask for help, or you'll just be called "nub" with a plethora of other random insults.
Two: Like most people said... Unless you're already in an established LinkShell, this is a single player game, with basically the buyers, (AH), constantly shifting their prices around. Oh, and don't even try to join a LinkShell anymore, because if you aren't "contributing" to the LS, ie, not doing Salvage, Dynamis, whatever... Then you will definitely be kicked out five minutes after you join.
Three: Don't you dare join any random party, unless you've somehow built up 50 thousand Gil. Because if you don't have damn near perfect gear, you're "gimp' in every which way. And of course, when number one is applied, it's really hard to build up the Gil.
Quite frankly, unless it's a group of about 5+ friends joining all at once, I honestly don't see how any one can stick to this game for more than a day or two of playtime.
I mean... I never even got to level 30 to unlock the other jobs, because he people in this game were so constantly down right rude, that I honestly didn't see how I was going to even get to 30.
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