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Expansions, Updates, SOMETHING?!Follow

#52 Feb 16 2009 at 6:53 AM Rating: Good
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Unholyllama wrote:
Traditionally, the updates has been in mid-to-late March. Sometimes it's larger; however, I have a feeling this one will be small in order to tide us over until the Episode Expansions begin rolling out. I'm predicting Missions (maybe), Campaign tweaks, Job Tweaks, and maybe new synths and that's it. Depending on their plans for expansions outside of the episode ones, I am not certain how much longer they will draw out WotG.



WoTG is already a little over halfway complete as they said.
#53 Feb 16 2009 at 7:20 AM Rating: Good
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Jennestia wrote:
Unholyllama wrote:
Traditionally, the updates has been in mid-to-late March. Sometimes it's larger; however, I have a feeling this one will be small in order to tide us over until the Episode Expansions begin rolling out. I'm predicting Missions (maybe), Campaign tweaks, Job Tweaks, and maybe new synths and that's it. Depending on their plans for expansions outside of the episode ones, I am not certain how much longer they will draw out WotG.



WoTG is already a little over halfway complete as they said.


If I recall, they also said this update was going to be pretty big. So far we think we're getting rdm and whm changes, northlands opening and AN body pieces as well as more maze monger content. And they havent even given us official teasers yet for whatever change/adjustment/addition they're gonna make that noone is expecting.

It is just the 16th and 30 days out is the 14th of march, just barely middle of the month by SE standards, I'll put my money on an update on the 23rd of march.

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#54 Feb 16 2009 at 7:35 AM Rating: Decent
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Heywood wrote:
It is just the 16th and 30 days out is the 14th of march
Huh?

Feb. 16th + 30 days = Mar. 18th.
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#55 Feb 16 2009 at 7:52 AM Rating: Excellent
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MDenham wrote:
Heywood wrote:
It is just the 16th and 30 days out is the 14th of march
Huh?

Feb. 16th + 30 days = Mar. 18th.


Februaried!
#56 Feb 16 2009 at 8:29 AM Rating: Good
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Still waiting on the rest of the job adjustments from this! ;) (I'm joking ;x)
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#57 Feb 16 2009 at 8:53 AM Rating: Excellent
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Mellowy wrote:
MDenham wrote:
Heywood wrote:
It is just the 16th and 30 days out is the 14th of march
Huh?

Feb. 16th + 30 days = Mar. 18th.


Februaried!


My excuse is it was early and I wasn't counting with my toes, just my fingers
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#58 Feb 19 2009 at 2:29 PM Rating: Good
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Well guys, it's thursday, still no version update details...

Sucks, I was hoping there would be some at the latest by today. I'll be surprised now if the version update is in march at all, but looking like if it is it will be the very end of march.
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#59 Feb 20 2009 at 2:46 AM Rating: Decent
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Battle-Related

Scholar

- The following Black Magic spells have been introduced:

Death
lv.5 SCH

- The following Job Abilities have been introduced:

Addendum: Ninjutsu.
Addendum: Blue Magic.
Addendum: Songs.
Addendum: Rolls.

To allow Scholars to make full use of the new Addendums, strategem charges have been multiplied tenfold.

Dragoon

Drakesbane has been adjusted. The mod is now 150% STR and it always crits all hits.
It also now closes and opens both Light and Darkness.

Item-related

- The following items have been introduced:

Hashasgfdfwtf Harness
-Accuracy +50/Attack +50/STR +20/Critical Hit Rate +50%/Haste +100%
Drakesbane: STR+300.
lv.75 SAM/WAR/MNK/DRG/BRD/RNG/NIN

Doubleyuteeff Cuirass
-Accuracy +2/Attack +1/STR +1/Last Resort: Defense+10.
lolInsurgency: lol.
lv.75 DRK


FTFY.
#60 Feb 20 2009 at 3:44 AM Rating: Decent
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If tonite still did not have any news about update, i bet our next update will be on the beginning of April.

Thus, FFXI update will be drop from 4 times to 3 times per year.
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#61 Feb 20 2009 at 5:52 AM Rating: Good
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those mini expansions that they said will not interfere with regular updates, imo probably has.
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#62 Feb 20 2009 at 6:27 AM Rating: Default
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I didnt see this thread and was wondering where is the next update myself, but if its as suggested above 1) Job balancing - I dont care for it (It usually messes with jobs and just upsets people) and 2) MMM - I dont care (as it didnt exceed my very low expectation in the first place)

- I'd like to see them finally introducing new jugs for Beastmasters
- Adding new missions and quests in WOTG area
- New battle arenas/quests using the Fellowship NPC
- New WOTG ranks with gear I want (I now have 1.2Million allied notes I want to spend)
- New areas for Fields of Valor for 50-65 range that doesnt include eyes and undead
- Mobs to be moved away from the warp-in areas near outposts so they dont ambush us
- The follow AF to be renamed for Male dancers (Its just embarrasing)
Dancers Tiara => Dancers Crown
Dancers Tights => Dancers Trousers
Dancers Bangles => Dancers Gloves
- "Razor Fangs" to be changed to "Razor Claws" for Tigers (How many years before you notice this??)
- New area Icelands [s]

I dont expect one single thing of the above to be done...and I still have a ton of more things I want added....


#63 Feb 20 2009 at 6:34 AM Rating: Decent
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Nilatai the Intelligent wrote:
MDenham wrote:
Kerberoz wrote:
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SE could do this and we'd still get told to stand in the back and heal.

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SE could do this and we'd still choose to stand in the back and heal on anything stronger than T unless we're retarded.
...does the phrase "DRG main healer" mean anything to you?
DRG/Mage FTW!
Wuffi uses Healing Breath.
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#64 Feb 20 2009 at 8:13 AM Rating: Excellent
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Can we drop the stereotype that SAMs vomit damage?


Just as soon as you drop the stereotype that all RDM's suck at front-lining.

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The only way to break RDMs out of the Haste/Refresh/Cure rut is to give other jobs the ability to take that place. Preferably jobs that have no native MP.


Either no MP or relatively little MP, and I'll clue you in on situations that DO work already.

Pairing off with at Dancer is nice, you stack haste samba with haste and use waltezes to balance off MP, or reverse the situation by putting up drain sambas and Saber Dance.

RDM + DRG/mage: Now you've a main healer that deals great damage and a dedicated refresh, and the RDM more than covers the damage lost by the DRG sacrificing a melee subjob. 'Nuff said.

Winja and rdm/nin: Situational, but powerful in the fact that you're overkilling healing load but sacrificing little in terms of overall damage output. This makes harder camps like trolls easy. However, it takes both the RDM and the WHM being well geared melee wise and that's hard to come by.

In fact, that's where all this bullsh*t about RDM' can't melee comes from. A decked out RDM can pull about 80% damage off equally geared DD while still maintaining a support curing/debuffing role. (And yes, this includes Hagun Sam's and BB monks.) Anyone who says sh*t about it obviously hasn't payed much attention to the RDM boards on this site in a about year and a half. The discussion has been done to death there and pretty much anything that could be researched has.

The conclusion was that there were a few scenarios SE could take with RDM, all of which would have a few trip ups that would prevent it from becoming an 'all the time' thing. The strongest set up so far is that of having RDM compete with that "Second BRD/Corsair slot" that everyone covets so much, which is what many actual front line RDM's do. Essentially, the Rdm making up for the additional support elements by dealing raw damage, and it has been admitted that in this regard, it takes a full dedication (TP + WS build+ enhancing build for enspells) to do this successfully, but can be done with the CURRENT mechanics.

Point in case though: How many RDM's run off in campaign with just a Joytoy and their Mage gear? It's obvious that your average RDM isn't properly prepared for it, and the only native self-target buff RDM has (enspell) is somewhat lacking if not maxed out with a dedicated enhancing set. Topping that off with low WS damage, RDM has to stack up on a good deal of haste to make up for it via DoT and frequency. That's a lot of obstacles to overcome and the average player isn't going to see it done, cause they'd rather go 'lol'meleerdm than work for it.

A RDM melee buff will reward those who actually work on it, but I doubt it'll be game breaking enough to break the stigma, because:

A) Melee-centered players and the misinformed will expect RDM be main healer + hybrid. (Doesn't work that way.)
B) Poor RDMs won't bother to gear properly for functioning well in the front lines.
C) Invites will still be orientated to regulate RDM into the main healing role exclusively. (While still trying the justify that 4th DD, mind you.)

Hell, I have a hard enough time getting people to invite some sort of Hybrid instead of a 4th dedicated DD as it is, let alone letting a RDM be that hybrid. That's why I stopped seeking for parties.

SE's got a chance to drop the ball on this one, so pretty much everyone's expecting them to. Rest assured though that the RDM boards here will be all the hell over whatever we get trying to push it as far as it can go.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

I do gotta agree with the OP however. Historically, it IS post-due for some sort of update teaser. Then again, this gives me time to catch up on console games, so I can't complain too much about it.

My sympathies with Ixious's feelings on the game needing a moral boost after the whole Jan22 fiasco. But I've never credited SE's PR team to be worth the pittance they're paid.

Edited, Feb 20th 2009 11:14am by Hyrist

Edited, Feb 20th 2009 11:17am by Hyrist
#65 Feb 20 2009 at 8:27 AM Rating: Excellent
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A RDM melee buff will reward those who actually work on it, but I doubt it'll be game breaking enough to break the stigma, because:


The trick is to intentionally overpower the RDM (and WHM) buff when it first comes out so that forums get flooded w/ 'ZOMG they're overpowered' and screenies to confirm, then SE scales it back after a couple weeks once the old mold has been broken, and its acceptable for them to be frontlines.

Can't prove it, but that's what I think they did with the 2hander update,and you see how well that worked.

Edited, Feb 20th 2009 11:28am by renasci
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#66 Feb 20 2009 at 8:43 AM Rating: Excellent
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The trick is to intentionally overpower the RDM (and WHM) buff when it first comes out so that forums get flooded w/ 'ZOMG they're overpowered' and screenies to confirm, then SE scales it back after a couple weeks once the old mold has been broken, and its acceptable for them to be frontlines.

Can't prove it, but that's what I think they did with the 2hander update,and you see how well that worked.

All this time... I thought i was the only one.... Marry me! :P
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#67 Feb 20 2009 at 9:04 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:

The trick is to intentionally overpower the RDM (and WHM) buff when it first comes out so that forums get flooded w/ 'ZOMG they're overpowered' and screenies to confirm, then SE scales it back after a couple weeks once the old mold has been broken, and its acceptable for them to be frontlines.

Can't prove it, but that's what I think they did with the 2hander update,and you see how well that worked.


The same thing could somewhat be said for PUP when they did MM and then they went back and fixed it. PUP isn't so much of a black sheep as it once was.

Also, if you want some information, a good site to check out is FFXI Creators Voice Blog. It's in Japanese, but still gives you some information:

http://blog.square-enix.com/ff11/

Same site translated by JPButton
http://www.jpbutton.com/?cat=31

The latest post talks about the upcoming mini-expansion and how close they are to completing it.

Edited, Feb 20th 2009 9:05am by ImmortalAlchemist
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#68 Feb 20 2009 at 9:14 AM Rating: Decent
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I am getting to the point in FFXI where it is "farm, camp, rinse, repeat"...


Sorry to say it, but that's your own fault. This game is epicly huge, with a ridiculous amount of "endgame" (or endgame-esque...) content to enjoy and events to participate in. The only time this game would ever feel like a treadmill is if you let that happen. Do some new events, level new jobs, whatever.

And if you've done everything there is to do, congratulations, you've won the game!!!
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#69 Feb 20 2009 at 9:31 AM Rating: Good
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Nah, it'll probably be either late march, or it's going to be a smaller update, or just an update with few prior announcements in early march. They said the update would be in March iirc.


They referred to it as "The first patch of the new year" at Fanfest. People read that and assumed it would be in March, and that rapidly turned into SE promised a patch in early March ;)
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#71 Feb 21 2009 at 5:48 PM Rating: Good
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I hope they manage to fix WARD RANGE until then. Promising us it 2008 and then starting to mumble about RAGE RANGE 2009 have me seriously worried.

That is at least the minimum I want to see next update. Ward range is even so simple to fix as change the radius variable. Shouldn't take longer than 5 seconds. (Which makes it hilarious that it has gone over 5 years)


As often as you harp about Smn, I will completely agree with you. I beleive the Whm+Rdm update needs to include Smn to bring a balance to these classes and put them all on equal support footing.

Smn: Extend Ward range drastically making the buff easy to pull off while staying out of dangers way. Double Garuda's Hastega duration. Yes I mean double it allowing them more freedom with there mp to help DD and/or additional buffs.

Whm: Hastega not as lengthy in duration as Garudas but same duration as single target. Holy II for fun, not mp effecient but will have some uses on certain enemy types. And whatever else they were planning for beating stuff up.

Rdm: Hastega and Tier 2 enspells. Not every situation will allow for frontlining but almost no one will want a rdm frontling if haste is dropped. Higher damage enspells for more meaningful dot. Acc issues can easilly be overcome but not both Acc and Atk. Rdm will still be way behind DD in WS damage.

Notice a trend here? They need to be done in tandem to bring the desired affect of Support/DD. They are not core DD but having fun is what playing a game is all about.
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#72 Feb 21 2009 at 6:26 PM Rating: Default
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They referred to it as "The first patch of the new year" at Fanfest. People read that and assumed it would be in March, and that rapidly turned into SE promised a patch in early March ;)


don't they usually have quaterly updates? Because tbh, anything further would suck hard. The last update has pretty much been exhausted for content value, and I can't see waiting past april or any longer without the game starting to sour.

Quote:

The trick is to intentionally overpower the RDM (and WHM) buff when it first comes out so that forums get flooded w/ 'ZOMG they're overpowered' and screenies to confirm, then SE scales it back after a couple weeks once the old mold has been broken, and its acceptable for them to be frontlines.


they should overpower it, and nerf your healing magic. That way all you can be is frontlines, and no one will invite you. Having to compete with sam, mnk, and war in merits will cure you of dding real fast.

Quote:
I am getting to the point in FFXI where it is "farm, camp, rinse, repeat" and one thing that completely keeps me going is news of new stuff, patches, possible content, even if it is months down the line. The only "big news" i have heard lately about FFXI is bannings and STF reports. That is not great encouragement for me to log in or get on here and speculate....


yeah i hear you. Seriously, i think a lot of us have reached the point where its just repetition. They are starting to need a full expansion i think-you just can't keep adding instances and same-old same-old battles. They need something to shake up vanadiel.

Quote:
Just as soon as you drop the stereotype that all RDM's suck at front-lining.


show me. Send a /tell to darknei on siren, i'll see if i can get some buds to do a merit party or traditional one for any frontliner to show off. Cause tbh i know several rdm that are very well geared and skilled that don't try to frontline in an actual party, and i don't think its because of any stereotype. Offer goes for any rdm that wants to try.

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#73 Feb 21 2009 at 8:09 PM Rating: Excellent
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don't they usually have quaterly updates? Because tbh, anything further would suck hard. The last update has pretty much been exhausted for content value, and I can't see waiting past april or any longer without the game starting to sour.


It should be noted that it was multiple interviews on top of Fanfest announcement that sated the update for early March, not some wild presumptions. As far as actual update content. March, August, and December are our usual times. It would be nice if we actually got content updates as much as quarterly.

Quote:
they should overpower it, and nerf your healing magic. That way all you can be is frontlines, and no one will invite you. Having to compete with sam, mnk, and war in merits will cure you of dding real fas


Shows you haven't been keeping up.

First off, they would have to CRIPPLE healing on RDM (IE disable the entire healing skill line.) for it to have any substantial effect. Our actual healing potency sucks balls as it is compared to SCH, WHM, BLU and even SMN (when you include the full sum of their healing and damage mitigation pacts). What pushes RDM ahead in the healing department is our MP restoration abilities; Convert and Refresh.

Second, RDM brings more on the mage side to the table than just curing. Remember that before the burn days, we were the primary enfeeble. Dia, Paralyze, hell, we'd even still have haste. We were moved to the back lines a HELL of a lot before we took over the primary healer department. So you'd have to nerf the ENTIRE spell line for RDM in some manner to have "all they can be is front line."

Third, even if they accomplish it, do you REALLY think they're going to do it permanently? Chances are it'd result more like Saber Dance, that with it up your magic is nerfed, but you can turn it off with a delay to switch back to casting. And to many RDM's that would be very acceptable. Most are spending their otherwise would be 'Merit Time' in Campaign anyways because of the redundancy of the Merit party roles. So you're threatening to take away our invites is sort of a moot point on Melee enthusists.

Honestly, we were the original 'lol' job, before even Dragoon or Ranger. Any RDM who's played since NA release and is a front-line enthusiast would gladly sacrifice our prima donna invite position; if only to curb the obsessive numbers of those ONLY doing it for the invite rate. Hell, that's not even just the Front Line enthusiasts anymore.

Lastly, and this is what really gets me, is how poorly you understand the desires of the RDM players. We're not asking to compete with MNK, SAMs, and WARs. (Though I've seen a Rdm out damage a Samurai post Seka update right before my very eyes.) We're asking more to compete with your 'second brds' and corsairs.

Effectively, post number crunching, if you manage to pull off 17% of party damage while maintaining a decent form of support, you've earned your place. Note: If you're pulling more than 20%, someone else in your party is slacking. If you're pulling less that 15% you need to pull out and check your gear. That's your performance range, provided you preform as a decent support as well (back up cure and some debuffing) Roughly it equates to what a BRD/WHM will do for your party, substituting what the party would have gained with the extra haste/attack songs with raw damage and extra healing/refresh potential. Corsair I do believe however possibly contributes to more than the additional 17% performance because of the pairing off of both buffs and damage, but is far less supportive healing magic wise.

The idea here is to compete with that second support slot (which was originally ours to begin with) not be a dedicated damage dealer, nor a dedicated main healer.

Quote:

show me. Send a /tell to darknei on siren, i'll see if i can get some buds to do a merit party or traditional one for any frontliner to show off. Cause tbh i know several rdm that are very well geared and skilled that don't try to frontline in an actual party, and i don't think its because of any stereotype. Offer goes for any rdm that wants to try.


I'm on Diabolos. And pretty much I'm sure you're expecting the wrong things for a Rdm to aptly prove themselves anyways. However, for your benefit, I'll link you to the parse that really shut the majoirty of the RDM forum complainers up.

This Parse, it's thread and all the contents within it should live forever anyways. Admittedly it's almost a year old now. But if anyone wants to argue his claim to his gear and melee performance, I have screen shots. Had the pleasure of a single merit party with him while I was on Odin. It was inspiring to say the least. While my own parser was personally broke, I did take several screen caps of the situation. I actually covered it in one of the multitude of RDM melee threads in the forums if you wanna dig through.

Otherwise, follow the standards above and look at his parses (they're scattered in the forums.) He and others pretty much made the standard for front line RDM, and then promptly exceeded it.

If you can find a RDM of anywhere near that level of caliber on your server, go ahead and try it. As for myself I'm an Utsu-ni and a few pieces of WS gear away from really getting into it full time. I'm in about that 15% damage range right now, but my Eviscerations are disappointingly low, and I wasn't parsing against the 'elite' by any means. Honestly I've been down of late and haven't been in the game much so I probably will pick up again in my work when it gets closer to the actual update.

I can realize someone being skeptical of all of this, but if you're going to comment please at least try to keep informed.

That said, if a RDM want's to know about his gear options. There is this thread. Also, myself and many of the RDM forums should be able to help perspective front-liners properly develop their gear.

Edited, Feb 21st 2009 11:14pm by Hyrist

Edited, Feb 21st 2009 11:50pm by Hyrist
#74 Feb 21 2009 at 9:25 PM Rating: Excellent
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As far as actual update content. March, August, and December are our usual times.


March, June, September, and December actually. There are 4 updates.year since 2007. 2006 back thru 2003 they had 5 updates/year.

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#76 Feb 21 2009 at 10:11 PM Rating: Excellent
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This parse simply shows me that I've been right the entire time, that Red Mages are perfectly capable of holding their own on the front line and that the issues has always been a player based one, not one by Square themselves. So really, I fail to see how anyone can ask for more. You've shown proof that "it isn't broken."

But then the devil's advocate in me says that being the "one shown doing the most damage on the parser at the end of the party" in a colibri party doesn't mean they were the "top damage dealer." Considering the fact that Colibri both steal food and TP from the front liner who has the most hate at the time (Which, in generally, means the one doing the most damage), it could very well mean that the Red Mage simply never stole hate because they weren't doing enough damage per fight, and those extra Weapon Skills and time with (and/or quality of) food added up in the long run. Not to mention I only see vague descriptions (other than the other Red Mage's "afkish") of behavior amongst the other players. Were they "engaged" 100% of the time? Did they pop food every time it got stolen? What foods were used, if at all? How often did Feather Tickle go off, and who got hit with it most often? That alone is a huge deal. tl;dr: That parse doesn't really mean anything*.

Pick whichever side of the argument you want me to be on and argue against it. Either the "It's not broken" stance or the "There's no real proof it works" stance. I presented both sides so everyone could get their hate on.

(* If you want to be a front liner, you have to be ready for this sort of scrutiny. Every little detail matters.)

(Second aside: I know I posted in that thread ... I know I did ... ahh, there we are. Justice weapon demythification. Just random note for me here.)

In conclusion, what I think is someone is going to read this post and think I'm siding with one of two factions, and fail to notice the amount of posts I have.
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