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So how is Rogue/Ninja?Follow

#1 Oct 30 2014 at 10:16 PM Rating: Good
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Been thinking about reactivating and the new Job is my main insensitive. How is it? How are the quests for it? Are the servers flooded with Shadows and Narutos everywhere you look?
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#2 Oct 30 2014 at 10:28 PM Rating: Excellent
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I've gotten to 35 today and I really like it. The ninjitsu really adds something unique and fun. The Rogue quests were pretty good, but I'm liking the ninja story much more (one of the NPCs is very funny).

I'm fairly certain it will be my new main, coming from Bard and Monk.
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#3 Oct 30 2014 at 10:28 PM Rating: Decent
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Double postSmiley: bah

Edited, Oct 31st 2014 12:29am by Louiscool
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#4 Oct 30 2014 at 11:13 PM Rating: Excellent
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I'd say the rogue story is probably the best one of the combat classes. Goes to show what they can do when they aren't writing 8 stories at once. Ninja is pretty fun, and I love the ninjutsu system.
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#5 Oct 31 2014 at 1:13 AM Rating: Decent
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Rogue from 1-30 is a 1-2-3 combo class, like Gladiator, with an occasional extra ability (Assassinate) at the end. Slotting in things like Haymaker can help break the monotony of it, because of Perfect Dodge.
Ninja, on the other hand, is surprisingly busy. Mudras are not on the global cooldown, so you may end up wanting to squeeze in an extra Ninjutsu here and there, and that definitely helps distract you from the basic 1-2-3 combo from Rogue.

Also, don't rely on being able to Sneak Attack/Trick Attack on boss fights. Engaging knocks you out of Hide.

Oh, and Goad should make you somewhat popular in groups.

Edited, Oct 31st 2014 3:13am by Ravashack
#6 Oct 31 2014 at 2:50 AM Rating: Decent
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Rogue and Ninja?

Only got them to 31 so far, but i can already tell you that they're a tad overpowered. Maybe designed that way, maybe to make people want to play them who didnt like the name or the non-tanky-ness, but...

You get a 20% damage bonus through a permanently activated ability (till you die or switch jobs).
You have really high potency attacks. Even your basic combo ends with 320.
Ninjutsu for AoE or really strong ranged (magical) attacks and also one that gives you a 15% boost in attack speed.

Having played every other job up to 50, i can tell you that as far as power output goes, it's quite noticably stronger than the other jobs so far. Monk and Dragoons might be out of a job entirely.

I'm not in a position to tell you to come back for it because you should, or should not, play it. But it's very very likely the job is going to be brought up in an emergency maintenance soon.
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#7 Oct 31 2014 at 2:52 AM Rating: Good
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I just dinged 30 and personally I don't enjoy Rogue very much. It feels very bland and unimaginative compared to stealth classes in other games. From what I've seen of the mudra system though I think NIN will be really fun. We will see later today I suppose :)
#8 Oct 31 2014 at 5:36 AM Rating: Default
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From the few 50s Ive ended up in duties with: Absolutely trash, worse than Dragoons.

From personal experience: Definitely a copy/paste of Monk in terms of execution with more oCD needed. It's a change of pace that's for sure, but they missed the mark on itemization (instead of a full line of Katanas, it's still very much a dagger user, kind of like Ragnarok where Ninja (if physical) only had a few of them, your best weapon was a dagger.)

It has amazing burst DPS and is definitely a class you need some electricity in that grey matter to truly ...use. They did a decent job with it, sadly though it's apparent they designed this in mind of preexisting players since in order to get said burst DPS you basically need to be at 2.3 standard the second you hit 50 or you'll slack behind even some fresh 50 MNK/BRD.

Edited, Oct 31st 2014 4:53am by Theonehio
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#9 Oct 31 2014 at 6:10 AM Rating: Excellent
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Ravashack wrote:
Rogue from 1-30 is a 1-2-3 combo class, like Gladiator, with an occasional extra ability (Assassinate) at the end. Slotting in things like Haymaker can help break the monotony of it, because of Perfect Dodge.
Ninja, on the other hand, is surprisingly busy. Mudras are not on the global cooldown, so you may end up wanting to squeeze in an extra Ninjutsu here and there, and that definitely helps distract you from the basic 1-2-3 combo from Rogue.

Also, don't rely on being able to Sneak Attack/Trick Attack on boss fights. Engaging knocks you out of Hide.

Oh, and Goad should make you somewhat popular in groups.

Edited, Oct 31st 2014 3:13am by Ravashack


You'll be happy to know that there is a Ninjitsu that gives you hide while in combat and let's you Trick attack / Sneak Attack. I think it's Suiton?

Edited, Oct 31st 2014 8:10am by Louiscool
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#10 Oct 31 2014 at 7:50 AM Rating: Good
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Alright, sold. Sounds like they did some interesting things with the Ninja job.
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#11 Oct 31 2014 at 9:35 AM Rating: Good
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Just be prepared for some horrendous waits if you want to enter dungeons. I ran Stone Vigil the other night to work toward my Animus weapon, and there was a NIN in the group. At the end of the run, he thanked the group for the run and said it was worth the 2 hour wait. I didn't find out if he was doing low level roulette or if was only targeting one or more dungeons close to his level.
#12 Oct 31 2014 at 9:47 AM Rating: Excellent
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svlyons wrote:
Just be prepared for some horrendous waits if you want to enter dungeons. I ran Stone Vigil the other night to work toward my Animus weapon, and there was a NIN in the group. At the end of the run, he thanked the group for the run and said it was worth the 2 hour wait. I didn't find out if he was doing low level roulette or if was only targeting one or more dungeons close to his level.


That's the main reason I decided to work on Gld/Pld instead of Rog/Nin right now. I wanted to join the wave, but anticipated long ques.

Edited, Oct 31st 2014 11:48am by PhrozenFFXI
#13 Oct 31 2014 at 10:51 AM Rating: Good
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There'll never be a better time to level Conjurer with the Duty Finder, especially if you want to farm commendations (I'd also add tanks, but they always have it easy).

Every low level party has at least one Rogue or Ninja in it who's been waiting forever to get in (and if the other DPS isn't a Rogue or Ninja, it's a ranged class/job who's thinking it's about time they get the easy side of the DPS queue).

Ninjas are just starting to hit their 50th level now, so we'll see how dominant they become at endgame.
#14 Oct 31 2014 at 11:12 AM Rating: Good
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One key obtained and loot chest opened without battling in Haukke Manor story. So there's that...
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#15 Oct 31 2014 at 11:25 AM Rating: Good
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svlyons wrote:
Just be prepared for some horrendous waits if you want to enter dungeons. I ran Stone Vigil the other night to work toward my Animus weapon, and there was a NIN in the group. At the end of the run, he thanked the group for the run and said it was worth the 2 hour wait. I didn't find out if he was doing low level roulette or if was only targeting one or more dungeons close to his level.


Dude the DPS queues are awful, especially after playing a Paladin for the past year. I'm enjoying the change of pace Rogue brings though. And I finally have a use for potions!

Edited, Nov 1st 2014 12:37pm by BrokenFox
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#16 Oct 31 2014 at 11:48 AM Rating: Excellent
I queued up as a tank with "join party in progress" a few times this week. Yeaaaaah, I got all three commendations each time I rolled into an in-progress dungeon. It's like picking blackberries easy.
#17 Oct 31 2014 at 1:21 PM Rating: Decent
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Xoie wrote:
Ninjas are just starting to hit their 50th level now, so we'll see how dominant they become at endgame.


From what I seen, lots of JP uses NIN in end-game quite a bit, even in Final Coil. Works well (if you actually took the time to learn its mechanics.)
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#18 Oct 31 2014 at 2:11 PM Rating: Excellent
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Louiscool wrote:
Ravashack wrote:
Rogue from 1-30 is a 1-2-3 combo class, like Gladiator, with an occasional extra ability (Assassinate) at the end. Slotting in things like Haymaker can help break the monotony of it, because of Perfect Dodge.
Ninja, on the other hand, is surprisingly busy. Mudras are not on the global cooldown, so you may end up wanting to squeeze in an extra Ninjutsu here and there, and that definitely helps distract you from the basic 1-2-3 combo from Rogue.

Also, don't rely on being able to Sneak Attack/Trick Attack on boss fights. Engaging knocks you out of Hide.

Oh, and Goad should make you somewhat popular in groups.

Edited, Oct 31st 2014 3:13am by Ravashack


You'll be happy to know that there is a Ninjitsu that gives you hide while in combat and let's you Trick attack / Sneak Attack. I think it's Suiton?

Edited, Oct 31st 2014 8:10am by Louiscool


Looks like it. Which means not until you hit 45, since it requires Jin. (I'm 32.)

Anything else I'm missing?
#19 Oct 31 2014 at 3:28 PM Rating: Default
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Opps doubled somehow

Edited, Oct 31st 2014 2:28pm by Theonehio
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#20 Oct 31 2014 at 10:13 PM Rating: Good
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Had a couple Haukke Manor runs this evening.

Is it just how the class should normally play, or are these just crazy players? They were running ahead, picking their own targets, and just going to town on stuff and it was difficult to keep hate off of them.

All of my gear was Level Sync'd, so I know it wasn't a gear issue.
I was mildly rusty, but I was spamming Flash and the full RoH combo, switching targets when needed, the whole 9 yards.

The 2nd group, the healer (who was pulling) said halfway through the dungeon that she realized she was pulling crazily but they were apparently a whole group minus tank.

I'm not complaining, but yeesh. The damage output seemed a bit over-the-top; average mobs dying twice as fast as I remember them dying and flashy effects all over the screen.

But, I will admit I had a blast even though I was constantly seeing orange threat markers and drumming my fingers on the keys like mad just to get it done. In the end, I had two of the fastest Haukke runs ever, and wound up with all 6 commendations lol. Sure! I'll take those, thankyouverymuch.

It was a heck of a way to get back into playing PLD after not playing it for several months, lol.

Sadly it is after midnight while typing this; I need to get back in there soon for some more easy XP and commendations tomorrow lol.

Edited, Nov 1st 2014 12:14am by Lyrailis
#21 Oct 31 2014 at 11:03 PM Rating: Good
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The class is certainly bursty. I can imagine that a NIN who can't keep it in his pants would pull threat at the start of a pull, especially if Sneak Attack crits at that level.

As always, a good dps will keep their threat below the tank's even if they're capable of exceeding it. If a dps pulls threat and dies while you're doing what you're supposed to do, then that's not a problem, that's what SHOULD happen.
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#22 Nov 01 2014 at 1:47 PM Rating: Decent
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Archmage Callinon wrote:
The class is certainly bursty. I can imagine that a NIN who can't keep it in his pants would pull threat at the start of a pull, especially if Sneak Attack crits at that level.

As always, a good dps will keep their threat below the tank's even if they're capable of exceeding it. If a dps pulls threat and dies while you're doing what you're supposed to do, then that's not a problem, that's what SHOULD happen.


There should never be a time when a DPS is able to pull off hate from a tank. Unless the tank is just bad or really under geared compared to the DPS. The hate mechanics in this game make it so a tank can generate way more hate than almost every other class, the exception being a spammy AoE WHM. The only critical time during the whole fight where people need to be careful is the first 20 seconds of a fight. After that there shouldn't be issues.
#23 Nov 01 2014 at 2:33 PM Rating: Excellent
That's just hit though. Most DPS don't understand the concept of "hold back for ten seconds while the tank establishes enmity."

On BLM I'll take the time to cast a Thunder III since it's low hate, long cast time, and has nice DoT. By the time it's done casting, the tank is max hate, and I can cut loose with whatever I want without pissing them off. And if I do get a bit high up, hate wise, that's why BLM has access to Quelling Srikes from bard....
#24 Nov 01 2014 at 3:30 PM Rating: Decent
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I've found that in lower level dungeons and some higher level dungeons MOAR OVERPOWER is my answer to most threat problems on warrior. By the 5th overpower I can focus on DPS and forget everything else. That's just me though.
#25 Nov 01 2014 at 5:58 PM Rating: Decent
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Catwho wrote:
That's just hit though. Most DPS don't understand the concept of "hold back for ten seconds while the tank establishes enmity."


You don't need 10 seconds. You need one global. That's all.

If you needed 10 seconds you're doing something *seriously* wrong. It'll be even worse past this patch with Flash's threat boost.
#26 Nov 01 2014 at 7:26 PM Rating: Good
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You don't need 10 seconds. You need one global. That's all.

If you needed 10 seconds you're doing something *seriously* wrong. It'll be even worse past this patch with Flash's threat boost.


The problem is, ROG (at least <40) puts out a LOT of threat compared to other DPS classes.

They are very bursty and the first few seconds of a fight, their meters shoot way up, and fast. That's WITH the Flash Boost.

In dungeons before RoH, I'll run in, throw two Flashes and immediately FB+SB and the ROG(s) in the group are at 80%+ threat.

FB+SB and they're 90% threat. I'll flash again, and then FB+SB. Next thing I know, I see an orange indicator and now I have 90% threat.

This happened several times, and there is literally no other way to get threat other than Provoke, but Provoke isn't until a bit later (this was in Copperbell).

Then, in Haukke Manor, after RoH, we had a NIN decked out in almost full green dungeon gear with GC weapon and the same happened. 2 Flashes on pull, FB+SB+RoH and he was 90% threat. Another Flash, FB+SB+RoH and he pulls the mob off of me. Provoke, mob is back on me. FB+SB+RoH, mob is on him, but both of our meters are full. And it just goes back and forth like a yoyo.

I've never had this problem with any other DPS, even if they were fully decked out and all of my gear was appropriate and level sync'd (I was 41 at the time, Haukke Manor Syncs to 30).

BUT, it gets better later on. I did a Stone Vigil today and a decked out NIN couldn't get anything off of me; the closest he got was 75% threat thanks to Shield Oath.
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