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When do I craft to MAX Skill ups.. The AnswerFollow

#77 Dec 03 2004 at 2:35 PM Rating: Decent
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Edit: Double Post.

Edited, Fri Dec 3 19:37:55 2004 by DaVinci
#78 Dec 03 2004 at 2:40 PM Rating: Decent
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Edit: Argghh Triple Post >_< (sorry)

Edited, Fri Dec 3 19:39:03 2004 by DaVinci
#79 Dec 03 2004 at 2:51 PM Rating: Decent
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lokyst wrote:
DaVinci, how did you manage to read in Moon Phases for the synths where he didn't mention the moon phase? o.O


The Moon Phases happen in a chronological order starting from New Moon, Waxing Crescent, First Quarter, Waxing Gibbous, Full Moon, Waning Gibbous, Last Quarter, Waning Crescent, then back to New Moon again. At Level 30 he noted it was Full Moon, hence the only possible Moon Phase before Full Moon was Waxing Gibbous.

lokyst wrote:
Also, since the moon phase (specifically full moon) plays such a huge role in success and skilling up in comparison to direction I don't think it's possible to compare the effects of the two factors without some form of analysis to separate them out. We don't even know what days he did this on.


I was aware that Eruntalon did not list the Days that he crafted on. Have you read Eruntalon's experiment on HQ Mystery Thread Solved? . I'm quite sure one of the factor not mentioned was crafting on what day with what crystal/Moon Phase. The Day/Crystal was rather a passive knowledge to my reply (sorry)

Regarding the form of analysis to separate success and skill ups, the Succes Rate is mentioned in Eruntalon's HQ Thread. The Skill up rate is in the process in this thread.

lokyst wrote:
As for your conclusion that the effect of direction results in an average chance for skill up disproving the theory, I would almost say it does the opposite, because if you look carefully he's getting this average skill up when he's 2 levels away from the cap. I think the general consensus is that when you're closer to the level cap your skill ups drop off. Although, this is also a hypothesis.


I did not state anything regarding the effect of direction that results in an average chance for skill up. But I did disagree with the Direction Facing Theory, until 100 % proven otherwise.

The Tradeskill's skill up system somehow follows within the equation path of a parabola. In the parabola when x = 0 is the lowest/highest peak. One or two, or five tradeskill levels more or less than the skill cap follows the path of skill rate increase/decrease.

lokyst wrote:
As for the moon phase theory, I had wondered if something like that was possible, but then I noticed that the number of days duration of the moon phases were unequal, which lead me to discard that idea.The crescent and gibbous moons are 13-14 days long compared to the 7 days for full / new / quarter moons. It just doesn't feel right that they'd make it unequal if it was more than just a % factor.


I was not aware of the time/days for each Moon Phase cycle. Perhaps the reason to this inequality is to create a balance towards crafting and any other events regarding elements. However, it would be nice to see Full Moon/New moon lasting for 17 full days.

Edited, Fri Dec 3 19:43:44 2004 by DaVinci
#80 Dec 06 2004 at 11:28 AM Rating: Decent
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Anyone got the SkillupCalculator.zip and got the ability to upload it? :D
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#81 Dec 06 2004 at 1:55 PM Rating: Excellent
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Wow, that was a lot of information to be read into my observations. My "data" was merely anecdotal at best. It was just something I decided to do on a whim. Because of all of the other factors involved in skillups/HQ/crafting I think it will prove to be to difficult to prove it one way or the other. I simply posted the reason why I'm now superstitious about it. ^^

Besides this is just wrong:
Quote:
(2nd Best was done facing 'Dark' NOTE: with Level *8 Differential gap)

based on what is stated here:
Quote:
30 to 38 (Fanged Arrowheads) Level Gap 8 Crystal Wind Facing Light Full Moon 6 stacks level 34= .1 skill ups every 1.8 synths (2nd Best)


I do however believe in this Skillup calculation, as it has helped me tremendously in Bonecrafting, and will save me a lot of gil when I level Woodworking again.



Oh, and to Zyphinx, check out Lokyst's sig for what you seek.


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#82 Dec 06 2004 at 8:21 PM Rating: Decent
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Eruntalon the Silent wrote:
Besides this is just wrong:
Quote:
(2nd Best was done facing 'Dark' NOTE: with Level *8 Differential gap)



Instead of 'Dark' it should have been 'Light.' Thank you for the correction.
#83 Dec 22 2004 at 12:08 PM Rating: Decent
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I did a little testing last night.

Smithing was at 78.

Thick Sollerets (83)
83 - (78+1) - (2) = 2 (prime zone)
cap - (level + guild equipment) - (adv. img)

I attempted 12 Thick Sollerets
failed one (0.1 skill up)
succeded on 11 (0.9 skill up over all)

So with the equivalent of one stack of each material one level was gained. I believe this theory but will test more tonight.
#84 Dec 22 2004 at 12:33 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Thick Sollerets (83)
83 - (78+1) - (2) = 2 (prime zone)
cap - (level + guild equipment) - (adv. img)

I attempted 12 Thick Sollerets
failed one (0.1 skill up)
succeded on 11 (0.9 skill up over all)

So with the equivalent of one stack of each material one level was gained. I believe this theory but will test more tonight.


1 full level on 12 synths at level 78 is amazing.

To be honest I don't pretend that my theory will boosy post-50 crafting that much.

All the factors you list are Advanced support? Moon, day and direction were all zero?

#85 Dec 22 2004 at 1:24 PM Rating: Decent
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moon was half, all others factors were zero, I did that on purpose to test just adv. img. I was facing NW but I was using earth crystals so it should of had no effect on it. I can't remember the day but I know it had no relevance to earth.

I am searching now for what i will try tonight. But let me tell you i was amazed at seeing 0.1 on almost every synth. I plan to test your theory through out the rest of smithing and any other craft.

Edit: direction was wrong

Edited, Wed Dec 22 13:31:11 2004 by Jotro
#86 Dec 22 2004 at 3:21 PM Rating: Decent
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Ok i'm just gonna like... say a few things...

30.3-34 in less than 30 synths.

I am *CONVINCED* and 99.9% positive this tool works the way it should. This is one of the greatest assets to come out of this forum.

and this should be a sticky XP, i'll upload the calculator to Megaworm, just a sec.

DOWNLOAD HERE
(Right Click -> Save As)

Edited, Wed Dec 22 15:39:42 2004 by Gourry
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#87 Dec 22 2004 at 7:27 PM Rating: Decent
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I'd like to start off by thanking Purplenv ^^ I always enjoy reading other peoples' research and comparing it to my own. Oh and btw, thanx for trying to craft me some Noct Brais+1 a few weesk ago, hehe (if you remember that). Gourry, that tool you posted is pretty neat. I can't wait to get home from work and test it while getting my cooking to 60.
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#88 Dec 22 2004 at 7:28 PM Rating: Decent
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It's not my tool, scrool back, i *beleive* Purple made it, but i need to check

i was wrong

divisortheory made it. And it *does* work. Extremely well, but leave it on balanced, it gets wacky when it leans one way or the other.

Edited, Wed Dec 22 19:30:59 2004 by Gourry
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#89 Dec 23 2004 at 9:38 AM Rating: Decent
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Phlegra, I do remember. Sorry for the non HQ.

I did HQ a Shade Harness and Shade Leggings yesterday (a harder synth IMO). Back to back on the same day as crystal, and at 85% moon. WEIRD.

I am very happy this is working for everyone.

A note, I did about 10-11 Anima synths yesterday and gained 0.6, using my theory.
/pats self on the back
#90 Dec 23 2004 at 11:02 AM Rating: Decent
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In my experience this is accurate.... in that; Having a 2-5 level difference between your skill and the cap of the item you're synthing results in the best skill-ups. This could be achieved as said previously in posts by using a combination of:

Advanced/Regular Image Support and Guild Items

I think although all these other variables may factor in (ONLY moon phase and day of the week if anything IMO), the most predominant and important factor is the difference between skill level and item cap. This is what will make or break you in skilling up, rather than focusing on the day element or even moon phase. Take that stuff as a bonus if it is factored, but I'm assured it's not weighed nearly as significance in the results as just your actual difference in skill level from cap.

So in other words when I'm skilling up (Which I have always done effectively^^) I do so without considering anything beyond my skill level and the cap of item and am still always happy with results. This is just for those of you who don't wanna turn crafting into a headache but rather know the most important factor in skilling up. Don't kill yourself over every little thing ^.~

(Alchemy: 78 - Woodworking: 60 - Bonecrafting: 53 - Leathercraft: 35 - Clothcraft: 30 - Goldsmith: 24 - Smithing 14) For reference.
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#91 Dec 23 2004 at 11:27 AM Rating: Decent
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Hmmm,

I would have to disagree.
On average, sure you would have satisfactory results by disregarding the day and the moon phase, but you can't say it has insignificant effects, IMO. (Really we are only arguing opinions, which can never really be won, either way)

An example,

3 would generally be a good level gap, low fails, skill ups even on failure, and somewhat challenging.

Say we have a 3 level gap, Earth crystal synthesis. You are saying there would be an insignificant difference in skill ups wether it was done on Earth Day and full moon, or Darksday, and new moon?

In my experience in post 50 crafting, it does. Pre-50 I would agree that these factors have a smaller effect, but after 50, we need all the help we can get.

As well, lining up ALL the factors to stay in the zone can be fairly easy, especially if you are at the guild and can use free or paid synth support?

(You do have higher post-50 crafting experience then I, but not more)
#92 Dec 23 2004 at 12:06 PM Rating: Decent
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Yes I agree the best we can really do is opinion. I like the data and it makes a lot of sense, I do agree with that as well. This is surely the best thread I've read on skiIling up also, so great job indeed. I suppose maybe I'm lucky but in these high 70's, I'm still getting a level per 1.5-2 stack of ingredients or so without having to really focus on anything besides my level differences.

Anyways, I'm really only pointing this out for the lazier people like me who sometimes don't want to look at days of the week or moon phase, but would rather craft knowing the predominant factor (level difference). I'm just giving that crowd something solid to rely on since it is indeed "the" confirmed factor.

I don't doubt the other variables could further make your day, and i agree with what's been said in this thread, I'm just emphasizing the predominant factor for people like me who want it straight to the point. (Setting aside well speculated factors)

I'll try to apply your formula next time I have a skilling session. ^^




Edited, Thu Dec 23 12:08:55 2004 by Filthyskill
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#93 Dec 23 2004 at 12:21 PM Rating: Decent
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Just pointing out: The link to the Calculator on Megaworm isn't working.
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#94 Dec 23 2004 at 1:43 PM Rating: Decent
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It's working you just have to right click and save as.

And thanks for mentioning me Gourry ;-) Doesn't surprise me that anything but balanced freaks out. I did that while I was at work and should have been working, so my goal was to finish asap before the boss came in lol.

Edited, Thu Dec 23 13:44:19 2004 by divisortheory
#95 Dec 23 2004 at 4:39 PM Rating: Decent
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yeah you should try to re-evaluate the equations for the Biased ones.

Edit: JUST SO EVERYONE KNOWS-> The Skillup Calculator takes the day you are on *at that very moment* the % moon it is *at that very moment* and it gives you the best situation *for that very moment*

so you really only have to use it once an hour (every time it switches days and moon%)... >_>

And based on the calculator, 35->37... 14 synths >_> I do beleive it works wonders...

Edited, Thu Dec 23 16:48:14 2004 by Gourry
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Smithing
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Mastersmith Anvil Obtained: 8/7/06 2:00:46 AM
#96 Dec 23 2004 at 4:46 PM Rating: Decent
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What if I post the source code and let someone else re-evaluate it Smiley: laugh
#97 Dec 23 2004 at 5:10 PM Rating: Decent
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I didn't read much of the stuff after the first post but I did find it interesting. If you're interested though, here's another thing that might be a possible factor. The elemental staves. I heard a rumour that these staves effect crafting efficiency. I don't own these staves (i'm a THF and have no use for it) to try testing with it yet but if anyone wants another thing to play around with, this might be one.
#98 Dec 27 2004 at 11:06 AM Rating: Decent
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PurpleNV I am a fairly new player and have been leveling up Woodworking since I started. I can say after starting to use this method, my leveling speed has increased greatly.

Rate up for you and thanks much!
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#99 Dec 27 2004 at 11:47 AM Rating: Decent
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I had a simular run as before but this time it took about 1.6 stacks of material for 1 level. I have been appling this theory to raising Leathercraft and Goldsmithing so far it has worked well.
#100 Dec 27 2004 at 12:02 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
just want to say great formula, Purplenv!

and after reading this thread, it seem like wearing guild clothing(like apron or glasses) would +1/2 to your skill, not Factor. am i correct?

What if i get apron/spec./and fool gold's? (i'm Goldsmith by the way) would having all 3 guild items, +3 to my skill? i figure the guild item that cost 150,000gp would give me a +1(hidden trait??)to my skill.

Can someone who use Purplenv Formula answer my question, plz? i use the formula when i started GS, and it works for me..and i dont want x to be 6, when i want x to be 2


and i also heard that having mogenhancement would affect syth. just like syth support.
like for example:
faint elemental energy = +1
powerful elemental energy = +2
filled with overwhemling elemental energy = +3

of course this is just a rumor i heard..... but if someone have any opinion on this...plz post...i would like to hear what you have to say ^^


and it seem like there lot of crafters talking in this thread...any of you crafter got a millionaire desk, or two?
it suppose to have a hidden trait, of syth success up. wonder, what happen, if i filled my mog with overwhelming energy(which i do, cause i dont want to lose materials as a GS) and have like 5 millionaire desk, instead of one.... wonder if i see any difference. i wonder.....hmmmmm


and Thanks in advance to anyone who answer my questions. ^^



I think i read that the 150k GP item gives a mogenhancement. As far as the +1 hidden trait, i am not sure of but it could infact have one. As for elements in your mog house i have never use them simply because i do not have the room in my safe to put furniture. I spend a lot of time outside of my home nation so using storage may become difficult.(perhaps i have too much crap)
But i am curious as to how much this has effected your resluts. Do you have furniture for each element you use? or just one?

For guild equipment i have always added that to my skill level. On my next smithing run i plan to try something capped 8 levels above my skill level, with both pieces of guild equipment and Adv. Img.

Edited, Mon Dec 27 12:04:16 2004 by Jotro
#101 Dec 28 2004 at 6:12 PM Rating: Decent
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Sorry if I'm repeating someone as I only had time to read about 95% of the posts but first off thank you Purplenx!!! This is great. I have had a personal theory for a while that paid support was throwing me above the cap when I was close to the cap. This is the first time I have seen someone talk about that. I'm at 72 Cloth right now and want to put this to use as I have a 'Will kill monsters for food' sigh up near the Guild.

Anyway..., what I wanted to add is something that no one really covered. But a lot of people were asking about the directions and being refered to a compass here on the site. I just wanted to add that this can be obtained in game if any of you didn't know. Not sure where in Bastok and Sandy, but in Windy Waters talk to a little taru by the telescopes on the roof of the (Opastery? cant ever remember the name of that place) and he will show you a star map. The stars of the constilations are color coded for their element (ie Shiva, light blue, ice) I just drew this on the cover of my Bradey guide, so now my guide has useful info in it. hehe. ^^

Hope this helps someone who was lost on the 'direction' thing too.
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