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When do I craft to MAX Skill ups.. The AnswerFollow

#127 Feb 14 2005 at 3:11 PM Rating: Decent
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^
This thread/theory does not pertain to HQ.
I do not play a mage job so I have not tested this with spells or staffs. Anything is possible...
#128 Feb 16 2005 at 2:04 AM Rating: Decent
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Is there a post which dictates directions compared to crystals?
#129 Feb 17 2005 at 4:47 PM Rating: Decent
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Here's a test I did to see if the idea that HQ chance is linear proved true. And although I think it is, I don't believe it's as cut and dry as "higher your bonus, more HQ you get".

I decided to try something. Was shooting for carrot broth. The reason why is it has 3 decernable levels of HQ, it's capped at a nice low 3, and it uses cheap ingreadients.

Test setup:
2x stack water crystals
8x stack carrots
Lightsday
Full Moon (100%)
Facing waterstar (west)
Adv. Support
My cooking skill is 55

My first stack resulted in 3 regular, 8 HQ1, and 1 HQ2 synths. Not bad!

My second stack is where it went weird. I'll explain:

First 7 attempts resulted in 1 regular, 5 HQ1, and a HQ3. Yay! This is pretty similar to the first 12 synths. However my last 5 were as follows:
Regular
Regular
Regular
Crystal shatter!
Regular
Wow. 52 points above the cap with the moon, day, star, and support all helping me and the last 5 were total crap.

This leads me to believe there's some sort of cap on how many HQs you can do. Weather this is per recipie, guild, day, moon phase, RL time, synths done w/o zoning, whim of the gods, etc.? I don't know.

I know that 24 synths isn't really enough to get a definitive picture of how it works. I could have just had phenominally bad luck on the last half stack. I hope this data helps!
#130 Feb 17 2005 at 4:58 PM Rating: Decent
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Wrong thread SidneyDarkstar.
#131 Feb 19 2005 at 3:21 AM Rating: Decent
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Gourry wrote:
so basically the difference between HQ'ing and Skilling up is like this.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v208/Gourry_Inverse7/untitled.gif

Edited, Fri Nov 5 15:09:55 2004 by Gourry


I thought this thread was about the best way to get skillups and HQ using the info you presented, Purplenv. If I posted to the wrong place, I apologise. Where should I have?
#132 Feb 20 2005 at 8:16 PM Rating: Decent
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ignore this post

First off, Purplenv, thanks very much for providing us with this very useful synthing formula. I've used it ever since I seriously began crafting a few months ago. I'm now at over 350 total and have had multiple experiences of gaining a level in less than 12 synths.

Right, enough ***-kissing, down to my question. :p

The equation here gives +2 as the value for paid synthing support. As far as I have read elsewhere, I had heard the same value of +2. My Japanese synthing guidebook also says +2.

However...

In this thread:
http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/forum.html?forum=24&mid=1108869283938584484&num=10

The poster bootykilla makes the statement that:
>also (and thi shold be made a sticky)
>Advance Image Support gives +3 not +2
>which has been proven here in the forums

...

Well?
Is advance synthing support +2 or +3? If it is +3, then the value for Purplenv's equation would have to be adjusted from 2 to 3, and I would have 4 months of incorrectly calculated synths =(


Thanks for any confirmation anyone can provide.



Edited to get my foot out of my mouth
Well, I go and question someone's good info on the forums, only to realize I had a massive misfiring somewhere in my brain. Went back and checked my info again (of course, only after I posted) and found 3s jumping out at me everywhere. Thanks for the corrections. ^_^; Sorry for the wasted post. ;_;



Feelin' really stupid...

Edited, Mon Feb 21 19:12:42 2005 by Vrijaal
#133 Feb 21 2005 at 9:07 AM Rating: Decent
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I believe synth support does provide the equivalent boost to 3 hard levels, which I think was proven by using a synth that could not be attempted because of the crafters level, then adding synth support, and the difference obtained was 3 levels.

This does not mean that my formula is wrong.

My formula was not saying that paid synth support adds 2 levels, or that unpaid adds one, but that the strength of the influence from these factors is twice as strong with paid then with unpaid, and 4 times as strong for paid vs direction. Once you figure out the lvl gap, it is not so much based only on levels anymore.

#134 Apr 13 2005 at 1:21 PM Rating: Good
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I have added these calculations to my Final Fantasy XI Timer for Palm, including the option to list which days will give you the most success or most skill ups based on your current skill.

I wanted to add a feature to list the days with the most +1s, but there doesn't seem to be consensus on when that is.
#135 Apr 15 2005 at 3:12 AM Rating: Decent
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As far as moghancment goes, I got a little crazy last night.

In despair of trying to buy tuna for tuna sushi (lvl77 synth I belive) I got tired of not getting skill ups... I got MAYBE .1 skillup per 12 synths, usually with 3 or 4 critical failures in the mix (at lvl72, no gear.) Sooo I went and bought ~50 yellow pots and slapped them into my moghouse for "Overwhelming" moghancment: Earth. I remembered that it helped synthing with earth crystals but I wasn't sure how.

Fast forword to today. I got my hands on some tuna, rice and other stuff and started synthing with no support. Out of 12 synths I got 1.1 skillups, with 2 failures (like 45% moon facing south) It may be that I reached the ideal spot for lvling offa this stuff, but it coulda been the moghancement also. Either way its absolutely amazing that the skill has picked up this fast.

I was skeptical so I searched for more ingredients, and started synthing a couple hours later (lvl73 now, moon maybe 36%? still facing south, no support) Again almost .1 skillup per synth, 3 failures.

I'm overjoyed about the results, HOWEVER, it seemed to make my failures worse except on one occasion. (lost everything on all but one, where I only lost the crystal)

I plan to lvl cooking all day tomorrow and I'll post the results (hopefully they will be similar. ^^)

It could be the ideal lvl to skill on this, or it could be luck, but I'd like to think the moghancement had something to do with it. I dunno. Please tell me more, {I'm Interested.} lol ^^ ~Aet
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#136 Apr 17 2005 at 3:48 PM Rating: Decent
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Ok, so your saying the higher the number the more chances of you getting a skillup or success?

sorry i'm a noob at crafting.
#137 Apr 18 2005 at 8:38 AM Rating: Good
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I didn't read every post. I just wanted to add my 2gil.

If i go for skillups at a normal gap i craft on the day my crystal is weak to (gap of 4).
If the gap is bigger i use advanced support and craft on any day (gap of 4-6).
If the skill gap is bigger i try to craft on the day of the crystal and use advanced support (except on cheap synths, then i don't bother)

I don't take a look at moon when skilling but i have to admit that i seem to get more skillups on a full moon but i don't want to wait for a perfect moon.

The only time i wait for a perfect day is if i want to HQ something with high success rate. New moon, opposite day or same day (light/dark) normaly has the highest HQ rate for me.


Also the OP said:

Quote:
>6 High risk, low reward zone
No good reason to be in this zone
Only for the pure power leveler, who could care less about expenses
Please move onto another craft/recipe before wasting your gil here.


This always depends on the reciepe. I rather skill on a cheap synth using water/earth/ice/lightning crystals that's 8 lvls above my skill then stick with a expensive one only because it's not so high above my skill. This can save alot of money even with breaks.
Of course there is a limit to the skill gap. For a very very very cheap synth it's 10 lvls for me, expect many breaks here.
8 lvls are ok with guild support and crafting on the same day as crystal, still some breaks but it gets better with each level you gain after all.

Edited, Mon Apr 18 09:55:01 2005 by RidingBean
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#138 Apr 19 2005 at 6:57 AM Rating: Decent
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i reckon Full Moon to skill-up on is over rated
i was 97.8 for cooking, on the Full Moon, Fireday
i went to cook Sweet Rice Cakes, that use a Fire Crystals
went through 2 stacks of each ingredient
and only got 0.1 skill
i was spewing

was hoping to get 98 and be aleast halfway to 99
T_T

had advance support and +2 from my hat and apron

Edited, Tue Apr 19 08:00:12 2005 by Caladis
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#139 Apr 19 2005 at 7:30 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
i reckon Full Moon to skill-up on is over rated
i was 97.8 for cooking, on the Full Moon, Fireday
i went to cook Sweet Rice Cakes, that use a Fire Crystals
went through 2 stacks of each ingredient
and only got 0.1 skill
i was spewing

was hoping to get 98 and be aleast halfway to 99
T_T

had advance support and +2 from my hat and apron


O_o

Umm, did you read the theory in the OP?

I could have almost predicted you would be wasting your time with that setup.
You were WAY to possitive.

I am going to calculate your X value just ot show you how bad that plan was.

99 cap.
97.8 skill
+2 from Guild equipment.
Firesday
Full Moon
Synth Support
You did not sate direction, so I will leave Neutral, but I am betting you faced NW.

Skill Cap - Your skill - (Sum of "The Factors")=X

99-(97+2)-(1+1+2)= -4

You X was -4 (Without direction, which I bet you faced NW, so actually giving -4.5)

Anything less then 2 is less then ideal, and less then 0 is very poor skill ups.

I bet you didn't have any fails though.
#140 Apr 19 2005 at 9:44 AM Rating: Good
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Bumpity bump. That is all.
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#141 Apr 19 2005 at 10:40 AM Rating: Good
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I found crafting on lightsday/full moon can help with skillups, if you're far below the cap (5+). My belief is that you'll succeed more often, thus giving you more chances to skill up on snyths that would have been failures any other day. It seems to work when crafting potions and holy waters, I was gaining tons of skill ups, almost a lvl per stack of crystals.

As you get closer to the cap, switching to darksday also helps. I gained alot of skillups makin brass ingots on darksday 2 lvls from the cap.
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#142 Apr 19 2005 at 10:52 PM Rating: Decent
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ah thanks Purplenv
friend gave me the jest of this thread but didn't understand it
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#143 Apr 26 2005 at 4:01 PM Rating: Decent
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Bump, people still have never seen this.
#144 Apr 26 2005 at 4:20 PM Rating: Decent
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bump

I would have just bumped this thread instead of creating my own had i known it existed.

Purplenv: Credit for your theory has been placed in my thread, even though i based the information in my thread wholly off of that timer. Now i learn they based that timer off of your thread. Sorry for the aparrant hijacking
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#145 Apr 29 2005 at 7:49 PM Rating: Decent
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I'll have to try this more. I know I did at lv. 58 on thundersday, facing SE, not sure of moon phase, and no synth support I crafted Hi-Ethers with no problem. Out of 58 synths I only failed 2 times I continuously got .5 skillups till I reached 64 at this point .3 was the highest I saw. This seems to goes against most of what's been stated here though, unless someone see's something that could answer that?
#146 May 06 2005 at 3:13 PM Rating: Decent
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you should really add guild equipment into your "The Factors" list.

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#147 May 08 2005 at 1:55 PM Rating: Good
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I swear every time I read this thread I learn something new!

amazing job purp your a credit to the FFXI community.


PS: if it wasnt for the trollz who rate me down any chance they get id rate you up ; ; (karma is 2.75)
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#148 May 08 2005 at 5:51 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
you should really add guild equipment into your "The Factors" list.


I did note that guild equipment should be considered in your hard level of skill.

Now that I have Guild Equipment I still feel the same way, so there was no need to update the OP.
#149 May 17 2005 at 3:58 PM Rating: Good
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The OP stated clearly that this formula does not apply post 60. Up to level 60, I used this fomula and have nothing but praise and gratitude. Other crafters snickered when I /pointed my directions. Even my so called friends and LS mates laughed and chastised my "ritual". Fine, they didn't have to believe in it. If I went too many synths without a skill-up, all I had to do was stand up and face a different direction to get myself back in the prime-skill up zone. It WORKED. I was disappointed when I finally hit 60.

Sure enough, 60 is a whole different ballgame. I can synth stacks upon stacks of "the recommended" item 8 levels above me and not get a single break, but no skill-ups either. When I attempt synths of things I actually want five levels above me, breaks. >.<

Coming back, I've read though the posts though and I see people applying it even into the 90's.

Was the formula found to hold up better than expected? Is there a modifier I need to apply?
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#150 May 17 2005 at 6:01 PM Rating: Decent
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i noticed that lightsday and the day of the week that crystal is weak to usually gets higher skillup rates. the day of week of the crystal is the worst day to get skillups

everything else i just can't prove. price has a lot to do with it, and item turnover also plays a role.
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#151 May 18 2005 at 11:35 AM Rating: Decent
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In addition to using the crafting timer that was designed based mostly on your theory and formula, I've been paying close attention to the time of day when I skill up. Since according to a lot of the HQ threads each half hour periods correspond to certain element (there has not been a definitive list that everyone agree with if I recalled correctly). I noticed that I get more frequent skill ups during some periods and not others. So what I would do now is if I get no skill up from the synthesis, I would wait until the next half hour before attempting it again. If I get skill, I would continue crafting before I hit nothing, and then repeat the process.

From a recent skill up run using earth crystal on Steel Finger Gauntlets (smithing, 51 cap), I noticed a pattern of seeing skill ups during the latter half hour. That is not to say I get them on every single :30 to :59 period, but if I get skill up say at 4:31, I would almost always see skill ups during the next two synthesis (3 is the maximum number of times you can craft in an half an hour game time).

I have went through the same process using wind crystal on Juji Shurikens (goldsmithing, 31 cap). I don't remember which time frames were good in terms of skill ups, but once I start getting them, I do recall seeing subsequent raises during the same half hour.

I am unsure whether this holds true irregardless of the gap between your craft level and the target item's cap, but this sort of leads me to believe that the time of day has a significant impact in skilling up. It's been a while since I read this thread, so I am uncertain whether this has been discussed before.

Edited, Wed May 18 12:37:05 2005 by zala
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