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When do I craft to MAX Skill ups.. The AnswerFollow

#152 May 18 2005 at 11:45 AM Rating: Decent
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Zala,

Since you were crafting with Earth crystals, I'm curious to know if the periods of time you did see skill ups were light based or dark. If I remember correctly from the "On the should of giants" thread, people seem to point that HQ would be like skill chains in that opposing forces would result in more HQ.

Earth being Dark based, if the time periods you synthed in were light, it could be that HQ and skill ups are increased in those time periods, as are breaks, while if you synth in dark time periods, you get more success, but less skill ups.

I'm curious to know if others think this could be somthing to follow on as I recently started skilling most of the crafts to 60 and am intrigued to try this out.

Now if I can just start noting down my synths, or parsing them... **** me and crafting on my ps2! Forces me to note it all down manually ;-)
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#153 May 18 2005 at 12:21 PM Rating: Decent
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Unfortunately, that day was kind of hectic for me (between buying leather gloves at NPC, mazurka myself to run to the guild to sell the gauntlets and get advance synthesis when it ran out, then mazurka myself again to buy more gloves), so I didn't take down very good notes. However, I did record a skill up run on Silver Hairpins with wind crystals in which I did ~4 stacks, this may or may not support what I observed, however, I did notice there were bursts of skill ups as well as when there were none, and since it was a continuous sythesis, we may be able to figure out some kind of a pattern, if there is any. The thing is we still aren't sure which half hour corresponds to which element, I've read 2 versions floating around in the forum, but who is to say there aren't more?
#154 May 18 2005 at 1:48 PM Rating: Decent
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It's quite possible...we still need a bit more data to make an hypothesis, or try to prove or rather disprove the current ones stated on times.

I might consider shaping up and start to note down all my synths as well as doing a /clock before every synth, might even start crafting on the trusty laptop so I can parse the data more efficiently, if I can figure out how it works.

Might make for some interesting things for the more mathematically advanced minds than mind in here!
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#155 May 22 2005 at 4:35 PM Rating: Decent
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Heres a link that is basicly modeled after this post. I'm not sure if its posted, but here it is

http://ffxi.lokyst.net/timer/crafttimer.html

in fact, theres a link from that site, to this forum...
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#156 Jun 01 2005 at 12:37 AM Rating: Decent
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maybe the +1 is kinda like accuracy? or chance of better? , and btw on darksday i lvl most, i usually make +1 stuff im lvling off of that day im only lvl 14 clothcraft , BUT I KNOW WHAT IM TALKING ABOUT O_O so be it or be smited by the almighty taru rdm!
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#157 Jun 01 2005 at 12:52 AM Rating: Decent
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guys, i get how it goes!!! the 1-blah blah is skill gap between what u are making so if u have a lvl 1 skill and ur trying to make something that caps at lvl 7 u have low chances, but by having support it becomes possible for your to do it and more and more +1 etc makes u have a higher chance of synthing whatever u are making, does that sound about right? ,,,,
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#158 Jun 02 2005 at 9:31 AM Rating: Decent
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IcedragonOo wrote:
guys, i get how it goes!!! the 1-blah blah is skill gap between what u are making so if u have a lvl 1 skill and ur trying to make something that caps at lvl 7 u have low chances, but by having support it becomes possible for your to do it and more and more +1 etc makes u have a higher chance of synthing whatever u are making, does that sound about right? ,,,,

Right. Basically, all the modifiers get added to your current skill to determine how easy or hard it will be for you to successfully synth at that moment with that crystal on that day with that moon, etc.

If you have a skill of 1 and you try to craft a 7-cap item with no factors going for you, then most likely you'll be failing a lot (and not just failing, but losing most of your ingredients, too). But, according to Purplenv's figures, if you synth on the appropriate day (+1), full moon (+1), with paid support (+2), then that'll put you at an effective skill of 5, so you shouldn't be having many issues successfully synthing (and getting skillups).

So the more support you have, whether it's through the guild, guild items, day of the week, direction you're facing, phase of the moon, or whatever, the easier it is to successfully synth. Of course, if you're trying to skill up, then you want to control what bonuses (or penalties) you want applied so you can keep yourself in the "sweet spot" as long as possible. Too many bonuses and you may put yourself over the cap, and while you still skill up as long as your base skill is under the cap, it'll be pretty slow. :)

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As for the original post, thanks for the info. I've started to try to get serious about a craft, and I've been using this to try to help me now that I'm getting into some longer stretches of doing the same synth. I haven't tried to check the figures, but it all looks good from what I've been experiencing so far. (Only 19 crafting levels, but still, it's looking good.) While I haven't waited for certain days or moon phases, I've tried to be aware of what my modifiers should be, and use that to gauge whether it'd be a good idea to get support or try facing a certain direction.
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#159 Jun 05 2005 at 3:25 PM Rating: Good
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I've been following this thread for a while now, and I'm really impressed with your theory Purple. My g/f pointed this out to me, and she is now sold on it :P


One thing though, I think a nice feature to add to the Skillup Calc program would be the option of adding basic/advanced support as input, on top of day/crystal etc, but also, add guild items as well (1, or 2) since those will definitely affect the outcome of the overall score.
I guess what I'm meaning is a more advanced version of the Calc, where you're able to input more factors yourself, instead of putting them in and having it tell you to/to not get support, etc.



Btw, also...
Just did a few tests on my own regarding advanced support. I am 0 in Bonecraft, with no support I was able to attempt a level 15 synth, but not 16. With advanced support I was able to attempt a level 18 so it seems to definitely be +3

Edited, Sun Jun 5 16:28:40 2005 by Osarion
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#160 Jun 06 2005 at 5:29 AM Rating: Decent
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another props to this thread, i was at 61 (i think 61.0, didnt have it written down) and in 1 stack of darksteel boltheads and yew lumber (earth crystal) which caps at 62, i gained a total of .6 skill ups on firesday facing NW (which gave me a 2.5)

thats more skill ups than the last 4 stacks combined not knowing what to do and just facing S and crafting.

thanks again.
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#161 Jun 06 2005 at 11:03 AM Rating: Decent
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sure it's stickied, but i'm gonna bump it anyway
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#162 Jun 09 2005 at 9:25 PM Rating: Decent
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I have one more thing to consider, when you use free support, there are in fact two different free supports offered.It has been in my experience the one free support (the one other members tell you to avoid) seems to make my synths fail more often (possibility this third support lowers current skill?)
#163 Jul 11 2005 at 12:01 PM Rating: Decent
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i hate to even post this but i got a full pt of skillups at -1 under the cap both times i did coins , mythril and gold and got great skillups (.2 X5) this was with advanced support and facing SE on firesday doing only 12 synths. Not one break.
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#164 Aug 01 2005 at 1:27 AM Rating: Decent
Where did the data for this come from?
Is this based on actual recorded synth results?
Or is this based solely on intuition gathered and congealed over the years from multiple threads?
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#165 Aug 01 2005 at 7:39 PM Rating: Decent
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POSSIBLE HQ FORMULA* *POSSIBLE HQ FORMULA* *POSSIBLE HQ FORMULA
POSSIBLE HQ FORMULA* *POSSIBLE HQ FORMULA* *POSSIBLE HQ FORMULA

OK, id like to bump this up to, but id also like to post a theory i learned from a fellow crafter and friend. His theory is actually quite good, but im still trying to figure it out, it is for the probability rate for HQing an item. He doesn't worry about which way he faces, nor the day/time/etc or anything else. But the way he does it is quite well putout. He says he dont believe in the directions and anything but i think if he did he'd be a lot better. Anyways the way he does his crafts, is like this:

(current skill) - (skill cap on item) / 100 = HQ rate

if the craft has a subjob craft, it goes like this:

(current skill) - (skill cap on item) / 125 = HQ rate

if it has 2 subcrafts, like this:

(current skill) - (skill cap on item) / 135 = HQ rate

**(skill cap on item) = whatever the main craft is on the item

now this crafter has all subcrafts at 60. and smithing at 100 +3 +3, he also has an alchemy wand and goldsmithing spectacles

anyways he has actually tested this theory many times, he once saved up 12 damsacus ingots for haubys and tried it out. since hauby cap is 69smithing and has clothcraft, the formula would go like this

106 - 69 / 125 = HQ rate

106 - 69 = 37

37 / 125 = 29.6%

29.6% = HQ rate

he made 4 haubys +1 and 8 NQ, he didnt fail any.

im still trying to figure out some stuff to this theory and how you might be able to add in all the things other people do when synthing. Such as:
- Direction
- Day
- Moon Phase
- etc.

im also going to try and figure out how to add subcrafts into this formula. But if you have the subcrafts at 60 for the synth u are doing, then id say to follow this formula when trying to HQ something.

If you found this formula helpful for when HQing or anything please rate up, People tend to rate you down when you post that you beat gilsellers to a NM and get the drop, like as if they hate you for getting ur drop and then they still havnt gotten yours, so they think rating you down is cool >.>

And one more thing, if found anything that might help this formula or post something that is a flaw, please do as i'd like to try and get this formula down if it really is that good. thank you.
#166 Aug 03 2005 at 5:15 PM Rating: Decent
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as posted, that formula cannot work, because for synths under the cap you would have a negative HQ% number.
#167 Aug 04 2005 at 2:43 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
now this crafter has all subcrafts at 60. and smithing at 100 +3 +3, he also has an alchemy wand and goldsmithing spectacles

anyways he has actually tested this theory many times, he once saved up 12 damsacus ingots for haubys and tried it out. since hauby cap is 69smithing and has clothcraft, the formula would go like this

106 - 69 / 125 = HQ rate

106 - 69 = 37

37 / 125 = 29.6%

29.6% = HQ rate

he made 4 haubys +1 and 8 NQ, he didnt fail any.


Smithing lvl 100 - 69 cap = 31
31 / 125 = .248% HQ rate

If you glace at my sig, considering haubs land in the tier 11, you can see I'm almost at almost a precise 10% HQ rate.

10% vs 25% is a rather large difference. One that I'm not seeing.

I have a slightly different opinion, but I do like the effort put into that one.

In order for him to pull of consistant 25% hq's, cloth would have to cap at 29 or less.

Edited, Thu Aug 4 15:57:16 2005 by mikesjusticee
#168 Aug 09 2005 at 2:20 AM Rating: Decent
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I have found that alot of the forums work on the theory that you are in the center of the crafting compass, however, i have found that if i put myself in the position of the crystal i am using, and face towards the strong or weak element that i get more skill ups / high quality. if you look at the elemental diagram posted in all of the guide books, and the ones that npc's show. it always points from the element to another element. not from center to outside.

anyhow, thought i would pass this on, maybe someone else has a different theory
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#169 Aug 16 2005 at 2:30 AM Rating: Decent
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One example:

I went from Leathercraft 14 to 15 on Earthsday (half moon), and from 15 to 16 on Lightsday (full moon), with a dark crystal recipe capped at 21.

In both cases I used Advanced Support and was Facing North (which is the direction for dark crystal).

My Mog House has Mogenhancement: Experience just in case.

So:

1st day (earthsday)
-------------------

X = 21 - 14 - (2+0.5) = 4.5

Results: terrible. Lots of breaks, slow skill-up, any +0.2 skillup.

2nd day (lightsday)
-------------------

X = 21 - 15 - (2+0.5-1+1) = 3.5

Results: very nice. Very few breaks (1 or 2) and +0.2 skill up 3 times in a row!!

Now the comments: looks like there is a huge difference between X = 3.5 (very good) and X = 4.5 (not good at all).
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#170 Sep 02 2005 at 12:11 PM Rating: Good
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Your timer is the best thing that ever happened to me...I never liked crafting untill I refered to your guide for success
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#171 Sep 02 2005 at 12:29 PM Rating: Excellent
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your theory rocks and so works. I recommend it to everyone I know and swear by it. ThankYou
#172 Oct 26 2005 at 8:47 AM Rating: Decent
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Excellent rating! Have heard a number of people also try to incorporate various Bar- spells, equipment effects (such as ele staves). I do not think these have any application, but... Any reaction to this?
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#173 Oct 26 2005 at 8:56 PM Rating: Decent
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This is some really great information. I am sure we all know that.

I have been leveling woodworking and thanks to a generous friend I have been doing it in a sort of half-powerlevel fashion. Penny mindful but able to synth the high dollar items.

What I had noticed though was a significant drop in my skill up when I neared the level cap. Wow, because I was also careful to craft on the days favorable to skill up and low loss. On top of that... I always used advanced synth support. I started to get the idea that it was the advanced synth but now I know the whole story. I wll be sure to put this to good use.
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#174 Dec 17 2005 at 2:34 PM Rating: Decent
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I was reading thread and saw that people wanted to know if anyone tested this. I had 0 in every craft skill and had never done crafting, a friend told me about the website calculator that is based on this formula when I did decide to try a skill. I went from 0-60 in under 3 days in cooking, and from not failing as much as I guesss people who don't follow this formula do... anyway going from 0-60 not only didn't cost me money in the end but has made me over 200k ^^ I guess my results should slow down as I approach higher levels but we'll see.

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#175 Dec 20 2005 at 1:44 PM Rating: Decent
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I recently tried some differents level of mog-enhancemts.
Here are my conclusions :

Opposiite element Overwhelmed support : -2
Opposiite element Powerfull support : -1
Opposiite element Faint support : -0.5

No Mog support : 0

Same element Faint support : -0.5
Same element Powerfull support : -1
Same element Overwhelmed support : -2

For example :

Bones Patas (67) - current skill (61) Fire crystal
craft during watersday (0), Full Moon (+1), crystal direction (+0.5)
Moghenhancement : Overwhelmed (+2)
Total = 67 - 61 - 1 - 0.5 - 2 = 1.5

i lost 2 Bones Patas on ~50 crafts (i had 2 bonecrafters helping me) and +0.6 in 2h (day after was Windsday Full moon)
#176 Jan 01 2006 at 3:32 PM Rating: Decent
Hey first post so bare with me :)
I have personally had a great deal of success with this formula and would like to take this time to thank purplenv on a job well done. Lord knows how long this post has been up for but in a game that is so complex and a part of it as intricate (or completely random) as crafting purplenv has developed and shared a way that brought me from 0 - 84.7 as efficiently as i believe could have been done. Although it is always good to question findings such as these, where a player has made such a claim as unraveling one of the great secrets of our little world of Vandiel, i beleive that after leveling a craft solely on this theory that it is infact credible. Also when i am not able to calculate this formula (rushing and being a noob) i found myself synthing 16 orge masks in a row and not getting .1 skill;; purplenv has done something truly incredible, the likes of which just doesnt happen to often; he has unraveled one of the great mysteries of the game. Configulations Purplenv!!
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