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Sneak Attack / Trick Attack + Weapon Skill GuideFollow

#52 May 30 2004 at 4:02 AM Rating: Decent
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Someone told me that for Sneak Attack, it only gives the damage bonus to the first attack of multi-hit TP attacks (Dancing Edge), and not all of them. Is this true, or would SA+Asuran Fists be really, really mean? Thanks.
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#53 May 30 2004 at 6:44 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:

Starlight, Moonlight


I won't comment on others, because I've never tested, but I have my doubts about a lot of the listed WS stacking with sneak attack.

However, the above two? These aren't even physical attacks. They don't do ANY damage. There are no skillchains that these skills can be used in. They simply change a straight percentage of TP to MP (i.e. with 100% TP, a starlight will give the user 15MP). That's it. They absolutely DO NOT stack with sneak attack.

This glaringly wrong inclusion makes me think that whoever listed them simply looked at some kind of list to see which had an elemental factor too them and listed everything that didn't. That's obviously wrong. If you have no experience with a WS please don't post that it stacks with sneak attack as if it's fact.

Edited, Sun May 30 19:55:48 2004 by Morlochasdf
#54 May 30 2004 at 7:03 PM Rating: Decent
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Sneak Attack only boosts one hit =/
#55 May 31 2004 at 3:53 AM Rating: Decent
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On the subject of questionable WSes stacking, Spirits Within is listed as stacking with SA. Spirits Within is a straight-ratio damage attack (at 300% TP, it will do half of your current HP). There's no bonus from using SA with it, assuming that it would even trigger SA.

Oh, and regarding <bt>, you don't have to be engaged. <bt> is effectively whatever mob has been claimed by your party (red name). If you engage a mob, but haven't actually attacked it yet, <bt> will do nothing. (the engine will not substitute the variable)

As far as <bt> working in macros if the mob is already targeted... that has more to do with the rather random way that target variables are interpreted. For example, if you have a Tunnel Worm targeted, all of the following will produce the same result (i.e. a range attack on Tunnel Worm):

/ra
/ra <t>
/ra "Tunnel Worm"
/ra Tunnel Worm
/ra Vulture
/ra XYZ

If you have a valid target already selected for a given action, unless you plug in a variable that has a PC as the target (or you use one of the <st> series variables, that requires additional input) you will just perform the action on the selected target regardless of additional line arguments, as far as I can tell.

Edited, Mon May 31 04:53:37 2004 by redvenomweb
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#56 May 31 2004 at 8:09 AM Rating: Decent
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I put a disclaimer regarding stackables in the guide, and removed a few skills.
#57 Jun 02 2004 at 4:29 PM Rating: Decent
3 posts
Well, heres my CTRL+1 macro:

/ja "Trick Attack" <me>
/wait 1
/ja "Sneak Attack" <me>

This macro has yet to fail activating either ability. I heard its because Sneak Attack has a longer activation time than trick, but either way, it works for me.

my CTRL+2 macro:

/ja "Trick Attack" <me>
/wait 1
/ja "Sneak Attack" <me>
/wait 1
/ws "Viper Bite" <bt>

<bt> for battle target of course.

and there you have my 2 cents ^^.
#58 Jun 02 2004 at 7:38 PM Rating: Decent
12 posts
I am a fellow THF, and would like to add a few things. I apologize if someone has already said these things, but here it is again if so. Something to keep in mind with your macros, when you use macros that have multiple commands seperated by /wait, if you currently have a slow effect on you, this will ***** it up. For instance, if you use your TA + SA + WS macro, often times what will happen is you will completely skip the SA, because the slow effect is slowing down your characters actions, and the /wait 1 is no longer a sufficient wait time for using the abilities. In these scenerios where my character is slowed, I unlock from the monster, turn around and hit my macro multiple times to asure both abilities have gone off, then turn around and hit the monster.
Another helpful tip, that most of you have probably already figured out...when you are in a party and it is critical that you get that first SATA off ASAP, pull your weapons out lined up behind the tank, but not facing the monster. What I have found is that I line myself up and go to pull out my weapons for the strike, but I am getting cast on, maybe WHM is doing regen on me or a bard has just had a song go off, and because of this my character goes into what I call "lock down". The game proceeds and I pull out my weapons and hit the monster, but I can't move. This creates a problem if at the last minute the monster or the tank shifts, and you need to adjust to make your attack successful. If you are being cast on you can't make that adjustment, however once you have your weapons out and are faced away from the monster, it doesn't matter if you are getting cast on or not, you can make those adjustments to have your attack land. There is my two cents
#59 Jun 08 2004 at 7:29 AM Rating: Good
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Thank you SO much. I have decided to start leveling THF and was looking for some good information explaining how things worked better. I already understood "trick partners" as I played on before but the timing and useage of them were kind of "alien" to me.

Thank you for taking the time to write this and share your knowledge.
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#60 Jun 14 2004 at 2:47 PM Rating: Decent
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I'm lvl 21 right now and i've been using sneak attack to pull since i got the ability.

At the camp i use sneak attack
I go out, find a mob.
I alert my pt. and follow the mob
I start the attack, and hit * to turn follow off.
Sneak attack lands, does a good amount of damage.
I run back and the mob gets voked off by the main tank.

Usually, when i get back to the group with dinner, my Sneak Attack Timer is at about 15-25 seconds, so theres another huge hit coming.
#61 Jun 14 2004 at 3:56 PM Rating: Decent
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Did we confirm if ALL of those WS's stack w/ the SA or not?
#62 Jun 17 2004 at 3:03 AM Rating: Decent
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great post, very informative
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#63 Jun 17 2004 at 8:02 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
1. Ready Sneak Attack
2. At 56 seconds (of the Sneak Attack Timer), a mob is engaged by the party. Being in correct position, a Sneak Attack lands.
3. After 5 seconds, Sneak Attack is readied.
4. 1 second later, the second Sneak Attack lands.
5. One minute later, Sneak Attack is readied and landed.

Result: 3 Sneak Attacks in ~1:10


There is something I would like to add to this. For example, before the battle you (as thf) have more than 100% tp. Your pt decides that they would like to do a skillchain at the beginning of the battle. However using the all-in-one macro of SA+TA+Viper Bite will prohibit you from using the "maximum damage" tactic described above. Here is what you could do.

Set a macro separate for your weapon skill i.e. viper bite. Before you pull the monster, activate your SATA. As you run back to camp, your voke partner (likely your skillchain partner as well) provokes the monster and the main tank gets behind the monster. The key here for you (as thf) is not to engage the monster. Instead, get into position behind the maintank and let your skillchain partner unleash his weapon skill. Once he does his ws, engage the monster and press (or spam) the viper bite macro. You will connect for SATA Viper Bite and will have a short time left before you can activate another SATA. This move requires some practice since if you ***** up, it's possible that you will hit the monster with SATA before you uses your Viper Bite. However when mastered, can really add extra dmg per battle.
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#64 Jun 20 2004 at 1:21 AM Rating: Decent
42 posts
Great guide. I'm still a newbie and decided to make THF my first "serious" job... this is great stuff. Thank you! (and all the others who contributed too :D)
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#65 Jun 29 2004 at 4:09 AM Rating: Decent
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looks like it needs to be updated. ^^
#66 Jun 29 2004 at 8:55 AM Rating: Decent
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GUESS WHAT~!@~!~!????

if any of you have read the new changes due to the update then you'll find that thieves can now use hide to do sneak attack at any position..

but.. i think that hide is still 5 minutes.. that about ever 2 1/2 fights on average.. any strategies on how to use it? it just got implemented so this ought to generate lots of comments.~!~!

THIS IS REALLY AWSOME~~!

I'M SO EXCITED~! THIEVES RULE!
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#67 Jul 01 2004 at 5:14 PM Rating: Decent
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I would have to agree with Rayel, Thieves do rule I'm afraid :)
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#68 Jul 03 2004 at 2:20 PM Rating: Decent
42 posts
wow. Extremely useful and it cleared a lot of things up for me. Thanks a lot!
#69 Jul 07 2004 at 11:03 AM Rating: Decent
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GREAT!!!! GREAT !!!! Finally a complete guide with all information for us.

Congratulations, and pls maintain updated. Regards.
#70 Jul 09 2004 at 11:56 AM Rating: Decent
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just want to put in with the reestablishment of hide+sneak attack

emergency hate control can be done

hit your hide macro when your behind the tank
then hit your fuidama macro (with ws if available) and stick even more hate onto the tank.

especially useful when things start to go bad

downside hide is on a 5 minute timer, thus you might be only able to use it once every 2-3 battles, depending on your effeciency.
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#71 Jul 12 2004 at 3:35 PM Rating: Decent
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^ um, i thought activating SA deactivates hide.

can we get a list of what weapon skills are most common to linking with viper bite? not even ending chains, blade teki after vb can go on for a 2nd skillchain i hear.

Edited, Fri Jul 16 23:36:14 2004 by outstar
#72 Jul 18 2004 at 1:56 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
The 1 minute timer begins the moment Sneak Attack is readied, not on the subsequent melee attack. This is critically important. If Sneak Attack is readied, and your next melee attack is 55 seconds later, Sneak Attack can be readied 5 seconds after that attack, or 1 minute after sneak attack was last readied. This means that, theoretically, 3 Sneak Attacks are possible within a 1 minute, and ten second window....


1. Ready Sneak Attack
2. At 56 seconds (of the Sneak Attack Timer), a mob is engaged by the party. Being in correct position, a Sneak Attack lands.
3. After 5 seconds, Sneak Attack is readied.
4. 1 second later, the second Sneak Attack lands.
5. One minute later, Sneak Attack is readied and landed.

Result: 3 Sneak Attacks in ~1:10


Whaaaaaat???
Sorry to be so idiotic..but i dont get it...how can you pull off 3 Sneak attacks in 1:10..when the reuse of 1 sneak attack is 1:00...

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oh and another thing..

Quote:
2. At 56 seconds (of the Sneak Attack Timer), a mob is engaged by the party. Being in correct position, a Sneak Attack lands.


Dont you get Hate on you after your first SA(usually), unless the PLD or WAR vokes it, so then you can land a second SA.

Please help me out here. It would be extremely usefull to have this knowledge at a low level(my thief is Lv.17).

btw: I like the strategy guide you build yerself here.
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    #73 Jul 18 2004 at 5:02 AM Rating: Decent
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    sneak attack is in a way, a buff. a buff that only activates when you're in the back......and turns off when it's used. anyway, the timer is activated the moment you activate the ability, not the moment you land the attack. so i can engage and land the sneak attack 5 seconds before the effect turns off. then the timer's down, and you can recast it again.

    still don't get it?

    ok look at it this way. you can land 2 sneak attacks in one minute. first time as you activate it and then 2nd time immediately after the recast timer is 0:00. the way you get a third sneak attack is by casting it way before the puller gets a mob. when he gets it, you'll be ready to attack. as soon as you engage you land it, and then the recast timer is 0:00 again. recast. boom 2 sneak attacks within a small amount of time. the first one i see as a freebie.

    yea, there's chance of getting hate from sneak attacking, but only until the tank shortly gets the hate back no problem.

    i suggest that you do activate sneak attacks way before the battle. that's a big chunk of damage you're missing. do it, and you'll better understand what they mean by 3 sneaks in 1:10.
    #74 Jul 18 2004 at 5:02 AM Rating: Decent
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    erg...double.

    Edited, Sun Jul 18 06:05:08 2004 by outstar
    #75 Jul 18 2004 at 6:21 AM Rating: Decent
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    Quote:
    yea, there's chance of getting hate from sneak attacking, but only until the tank shortly gets the hate back no problem
    By this you mean the Tank will use Provoke and get back hate after i fire my first SA, but the thing its..when i have my second SA ready to fire the warrior wont have a Voke(till 30ses) to cover my second attack, thus usually =ling Doom .(If party is stupid or until the warrior Re-Vokes it.)
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    #76 Jul 18 2004 at 6:31 PM Rating: Decent
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    i've gotten away with that many many times. the mob many not even face you. the longest the mob will be on you in the case you're saying is for 10 seconds. so the mob will be on you, big deal. you in a way need to be hit sometimes to increase your evasion anyhow. your healers should cover that fine.
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