Forum Settings
Reply To Thread

Sneak Attack / Trick Attack + Weapon Skill GuideFollow

#102 Oct 25 2004 at 10:02 AM Rating: Default
114 posts
For Great Katana up to lvl 59 all Weaponskills stack with Sneak Attack, according to various posts on this thread and some in the samurai forums, it can be concluded that every single Great Katana WS stacks with Sneak Attack :-)
#103 Oct 30 2004 at 8:53 PM Rating: Decent
586 posts
I have a couple of things to point out (if anyone's still reading this far down :)

It may be common knowledge to THF, but i find a lot of others don't know that SA multiplies damage, but not all WS do. People in pre-33 parties would tell me to stack Shadowstitch with SA, but since shadowstitch = regular attack damage + bind, the SA/WS doesn't do any more damage than a regular SA. Therefore, waiting those 10, 35, etc... seconds to execute are slowing down damage. Good choices for pre-33 if you want to stack SA/WS is sword or h2h weapons. The h2h weapons are pretty effective with /MNK because it speeds attack rate (increasing TP gain) and combo is nice damage, especially if you're doing it at least once/fight.

Before 33, i used SA and gust slash, but separately (if i had dagger on). I used SA+combo until late 20s cause i was THF/MNK. A lot of people knock /MNK but i found that boosting up efficiently between fights (if i wasn't pulling) GREATLY improved the damage of my first SA. As i approached 30 i swapped full time to dagger and /WAR to get accustomed to the feel of knife fighting :p

I believe personally that SA can miss sometimes, just like weapon skills. I've missed about 4 SA in my career when i believed i was positioned properly (countless others when the mob moved x_x ). However, this happened when the mob moved while i was in SA animation so i used the equivalent for /lockon (easy for PS2 user^^) maneuvered myself around the mob, locked back on with SA still as an active status and approached. The caveat about being within acceptable distance may have had something to do with that though...

I generally have problems putting /wait 1 between my SA and TA... maybe my lag is bad, but sometimes the second one would fail to activate. Macros i use:

/p Using SATA, line up!
/ja "Trick Attack" <me>
/wait 2
/ja "Sneak Attack" <me>
/wait 59
/echo repeat SATA

for WS

/p [Sneak Attack} + [Trick Attack] + [Viper Bite]
/ja "Trick Attack" <me>
/wait 2
/ja "Sneak Attack" <me>
/wait 1
/ws "Viper Bite" <t>

solo (build up TP first and activate SA before engaging):

/a <t>
/wait 2
/ws "Viper Bite" <t>

When i put /wait 2 between them i find that the occurrence of me attacking during the wait is much less than the amount of times they would overlap and fail to activate. /wait 2 is necessary for the attack macro because it gives me time to pull weapon before activating the WS, otherwise i always get "You cannot use that command outside of battle" or whatever it tells you.

Also, if anyone knows the formula for damage and how effective STR/ATT versus DEX is, please let me know, thanks =^.^=
Dremen - Elvaan
Nation: Bastok R10 Alexander
Main: 75 - PLD BRD WHM NIN
Merits: 48
Valor:5/5 Bard:0/5 Cleric:3/5 Koga:2/5
Claimed Linkshell
#104 Nov 04 2004 at 1:37 PM Rating: Decent
94 posts
What can I say but THANK you for such an outstanding guide!
I just hit level 30 last night and so based my entire thoughts on the guide here. I could pull it off w/o a hitch (once I had the tanks in line). I must say though, the MOST IMPORTANT lesson I walked away from with that is the fact that the SA & TA timer is from when you launch it, NOT from when it executes.

Again, just flat awesome guide. Thank you!
#105 Nov 23 2004 at 5:04 PM Rating: Decent
80 posts
yes you can TA on the tank when he is facing the mob to put more hate on them.

The only thing, as stated above, is trick sometimes misses even if you do everything right. And the damage is very minimal using this technique.

TA is best used with SA from behind the mob with a "trick partner". At later levels a good Paladin will secure enough hate that it doesn't mater who is your trick partner (a DRK, MNK, DRG etc. will suffice). The mob will stay focused on the PLD
Server - Seraph
LS - GamersRevolution
Profile : http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/profile.xml?55296
#106 Nov 28 2004 at 11:39 PM Rating: Decent
2 posts
OK guys I have a question. I just got level 60 dragoon with 30 thief as sub, using pole arm. I naturally have SATA. The thing is, SATA is doing the same damage as regular sneak attack is for some reason and i know im not doing it wrong cause im a skilled thief as well. Also, it's not adding damage to any weapon skill im doing. All it does, is transfer hate pretty much. Can someone tell me if SATA is works with dragoon using pole arm or not please?
#107 Dec 01 2004 at 11:18 AM Rating: Decent
11 posts
This may have been asked/answered already, and forgive me if is a rather n00bish question, but if I used SATA (aka: fuidama) using the tank as my SATA partner, would the SA activate because Im behind the tank? or is it required to be behind the mob when using SATA?
Thank you.

Edited, Wed Dec 1 11:19:34 2004 by Credan
Credan --- Diabolos Server
Hume --- THF75/NIN37
San d'Oria -- Rank 6

"Love is like a flower.. treat it with care and it will bloom.. Treat it poorly and it will wither away.."

"You dont need a reason to help people.."
~ Zidane
#108 Dec 05 2004 at 5:18 PM Rating: Decent
502 posts
Not on topic at all, but i'd just like to let you all know that one of the best Thf's in the game has left for WoW ; ; He actually gave up Thf after 45 to become a Bard, which he played with just as much Ability as his thf, took that to 49, but was too despondent at the current IG economy to lv either job anymore when his equipment couldnt be the best available without constant farming. {Take care.} Leachman.
67Thf 60Mnk 50Rng 21Whm 43War 33Nin 31Bst 17Blm others lv 6-10
Voyager Sallet... Obtained w00t

To Do list:
1. KILL CARMINE DOBSONS m(><)m, get drops 2/3done
2. Complete CoP Tenzen's a *****.
3. make money... not neccessarily in that order. 1/10000000000 done.... I think >.>
#109 Dec 17 2004 at 10:47 AM Rating: Decent
154 posts
Here's some of my thoughts on this whole thing.

I got in an argument with a taru THF/NIN in west altep yesterday about whether or not it was more worthwhile to separate Sneak and Trick or if it was best to just stack them and ensure reliable damage and hate control. IMO, a THF is gimping his party if he's not contributing to the tank's hate dump and also if he or she passes on a chance to function as a pure Damage Dealer for the party as well. Li'l dude ended up leaving my pt. Anywho, I believe Fuidama should be stacked as often as possible until you have Assassin at 60, but even then you'll still want to stack Fuidama for initial hate dump, and always with a weaponskill. If you or your trick partner don't have TP and have at least until your Fuidama timer recasts, past 60 you can Sneak Attack with a normal hit and then run behind the tank and get the same damage with Trick Attack.

When to Fuidama > VB: I don't use this for initial hate dump, because it more often than not leads to a delay in scoring first hit behind tank and causes wandering problems. I always trigger Fuidama macro just before I let loose with /ra to pull or when the puller announces the pull. Then when the pre-voke goes off, I go to first person mode, target and lock the mob, run behind it about four character lengths behind, wait for Pld or Nin to align, then engage the mob and run up on it behind the tank for first hate dump. This method operates ridiculously fast, and usually Fuidama is recharged and ready to go within ten seconds after the tank has taken Fuidama and expounded upon it with their default hate control routine, and therefore the resulting Fuidama > Viper bite finisher on the skillchain will end the mob's existance once the SC and the MB finisher connect.

Good voke partners and SATA SC partners: Samurai have Third Eye, which gives them a free hit if they get first voke or if it charges midfight will help them if they draw hate with a renkei combo. Tachi: Enpi > Viper Bite = Distortion, Blizzaga/Water II/Blizzard II magic burst.

Dragoon: Double Thrust > Viper Bite > Distortion yadda yadda. Dragoons past level 50 are the best midfight SATA skillchain partners in the game, setup first hate dump on tank, swing behind DRG, execute Fuidama enhanced skillchain for big damage, DRG uses Super Jump which deletes their Enmity value accrued during the fight.

NIN/WAR or WAR/NIN: These guys operate about the same in the partner role, problem is finding a NIN/WAR that's willing to let another tank be main tank. Usually you'll proly find a WAR/NIN as the vokebuddy/SATA partner more than the NIN who is likely either main tank or not in your party at all. Either way Utsusemi helps them survive the initial voke and also if they end up grabbing hate post SATA. Not really sure about what War or Nin ws contribute to renkei with a Dagger finisher.

Also, I have 1.5 waits in my SATA > Viper Bite macro and it's never failed, I trigger the macro when the SC buddy auras when readying starter and the three second timer always lands a Renkei when mine goes off. In fact my 1 second timer on my normal SATA macro without Viper Bite fails more than the 1.5 second timer on my other one, considering raising the non-WS SATA macro to 1.5 as well.
Server: Vilya
Mang, Hobbit Hunter level 50
Infares, Man Burglar level 17
Dilf, Dwarf Minstrel level 18
Freshly, Man Champion level 17
Cofounder of Solidarity kinship
#110 Dec 19 2004 at 11:12 PM Rating: Decent
5 posts
I am new to this forum. Insofar as clustering macros are concerned /ja and/or /wait and/or /ws in one macro is a recipe for disaster. Use alt1 strictly for SA, alt2 TA and alt3 as your WS. Some people have asked me, "well what if SA goes off before i use TA?" Both SA and TA seem to have, builtin delay timers before the /ja actually strikes the mob. Further, I tend to use my TA first before my SA as i have found that SA strikes quicker once activated than TA. Perhaps the preceding has something to with the comparison between the visual quality of SA vs. TA. I am a 68 thf atm and i, more than 80%, Use alt2(TA) then Alt1(SA) then WS. This "manual" has been failsafe for me 95-97%while PTing. Try it, but if you don't like it, try something else, but for the love of all the things that could be and should be left unsaid, DO NOT cluster your macros. Hope that helps a little.
Best wishes and happy holidays,

#111 Dec 23 2004 at 4:07 AM Rating: Decent
88 posts
Didn't read through all the posts.. but I know for sure that Energy Steal/Drain do NOT stack with SATA. I've personally tried it (a combination of curiosity and boredom), and it resulted in the exact same MP drain. 48 with Steal at 300% TP, 49 with Steal/SATA at 300%; 57 with Drain at 300% TP, 56 with Drain/SATA at 300%.

Also, ALL the Samurai weapon skills with Great Katana stack with Sneak Attack. They're all physical damage, they're just elemental with renkei. At least, this is what a friend of mine tells me. And another guide I read as well.

Above that.. I don't know if you have the info on Hide in the guide. There's so much that up and coming 30+ Thieves can learn from the more experienced.. you get the greatest thrills when you manage to pull off that one SATA Viper Bite for 600 damage that plasters the hate to the tank in a pinch and saves the whole party. Unfortunately, usually those great heroic efforts go unnoticed in the blur of battle spam.
FFXI: Sarid - Elvaan Female, Unicorn Server (Retired)
71 Thf/Nin: http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/profile.xml?46980
68 Mnk/War: http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/profile.xml?96388

WoW: Azrelya - 60 Mage, Undead Female, Gorefiend Server
Kryna - 57 Warrior, Troll Female, Gorefiend Server
#112 Dec 28 2004 at 2:12 PM Rating: Decent
16 posts
ok i have a question
and im pretty sure everyone's gunna think im a moron

but does it matter which abilities you enable first

for instance

sneak attack > fast blade
fast blade > sneak atk

soemtimes my tp peaks first andihave 2 seconds until sneak atack is ready
and i never knew if it made a defference

i started to wonder in the early days using boost and sneak atack together.......now that i am all about stacking job and weapon abilities from both main and sub
im ready to embark on complicated macros

so please tell me if which ability you enable first makes any difference
and also suggestions on juggling sub job abilities into the mix
#113 Jan 13 2005 at 9:23 AM Rating: Decent
171 posts
Was messing around with Sneak Attack today while farming in Battalia as DRK55/THF15. Tried all my Scythe and Great Sword WSs. Here are the few that worked with SA:

Slice - Works, physical, contact.
Dark Harvest - No, elemental.
Shadow of Death - No, elemental.
Nightmare Scythe - No, elemental.
Vorpal Scythe - No, physical, non-contact.

Great Sword:
Hard Slash - Works, physical, contact.
Power Slash - No, physical, non-contact.
Frostbite - No, elemental.
Freezebite - No, elemental.

Here's what got me thinking... just because the Sneak Attack doesn't affect the damage (doesn't give critical) on most WSs, does it still provide the 100% hit?
Amazo // Night Elf, Rogue @ Aszune
Dessler // Human, Warrior @ Aszune
Cecile // Troll, Priest @ Vashj
#114 Jan 13 2005 at 3:18 PM Rating: Decent
830 posts
weotch wrote:
Where I Have trouble with SATA is when we are going to SC right off the first SATA from the pull.

Hi there!

I'm only a 17th thf myself, but I like to look ahead a bit. If I'm understanding you correctly, you're trying to pull a SATA with a stack WS right off the bat(or Orc, or Gob Smiley: tongue) for a fast SC at the start of the fight. This is sheer conjecture, but has anyone tried this?

Start-fight SATA

Stay unengaged til first voke, then,

/ja "Sneak Attack" <me>
/wait 1
/ja "Trick Attack" <me>
/wait 1
/ws "(Your killer of choice here)" <bt>
/a <bt>

or in-fight SATA with WS

/attack off
/ja "Sneak Attack" <me>
/wait 1
/ja "Trick Attack" <me>
/wait 1
/ws "(A good one)" <bt>
followed by a manual re-engage.

As far as wait-times go, I at this stage of the game don't know if you even need a /wait between Sneak and Trick. If not, then you could get a little more done in each of these macros(party info, recasts, etc.)

Anyway, hope someone will try this out, since it looks like it'll be yet a while before I make it back around to levelling thf. Smiley: boozing

"This world gives you two choices - you can die on your knees . . . or you can stand."

LS: UnknownSoldiers
Fast Macro Setup!
My Superduper Elemental Enfeebles Guide!

#115 Jan 13 2005 at 3:29 PM Rating: Decent
830 posts
I have found this to be a handy macro when I'm tankin:

/as <t>
/wait 1
/ja "Provoke" <t>
/wait 30
/ja "Provoke" <t>
/recast "Provoke" (and hit the timer on my handy-dandy lil Vana'diel clock!)

I have found that this mac helps to sidestep the whole <t> vs. <bt> thing. /as seems to function based solely on what mob(s) is/are currently engaging the puller instead of the other way around.

Oops! Just remembered which forum I'm in Smiley: blush
So um . . . maybe someone could pass this along to their favorite tank for a critique . . .

Happy Hunting everyone! Smiley: boozing
"This world gives you two choices - you can die on your knees . . . or you can stand."

LS: UnknownSoldiers
Fast Macro Setup!
My Superduper Elemental Enfeebles Guide!

#116 Jan 13 2005 at 3:49 PM Rating: Decent
47 posts
Just wanted to let you all know you don't need 2 tanks.. a DRG with high jump can work as the trick partner.. The SATA goes through the DRG and the mob turns to the DRG.. The DRG uses high jump which sheds his hate and the mob turns back around to the tank.. Works great and gives the Tank a 5 sec span to rest...

Just what i have seen work through LS Buddies. I love RDM but THF is movin up fast..
75 RDM, 54 BLM, 46 THF, 43 Sam, 37 NIN, 21 RNG,
22 WHM, 22 WAR, 10 MNK, 11 SMN, 7 BRD, 7 PLD, 3 BST
Male Taru, Windurst ~ Rank 8 ~ Fenrir Server
LS - Entropy ~ Dynamis LS ~ Bombtoss
#117 Jan 26 2005 at 6:05 AM Rating: Decent
12 posts
Great info, thanks for the SATA help ^.^
~~ Kujata Sever
#118 Feb 04 2005 at 2:22 PM Rating: Decent
3 posts
Nice thread.. wow!!!
Fishing-31, Goldsmithing-16, Smithing-14, Alchemy-10

"You are not the only hero.", PSO
#119 Feb 18 2005 at 5:27 AM Rating: Good
can Leachman please update this?

if you are there, Leachman...or maybe a mod or admin could do taht...

infact I would love to update it, but I cannot update someone elses post.

anyway, there is a lot more info in the threads associated with THF's, that are not in here, and some of which are even littered throughout this one.

a more consolidated guide would be better! eh?
Kerisa: Hume: Female: Fairy
Corsair level 25
I'm a Pirate. YARG! Now, gimmie your booty.
my awesome siggy
#120 Feb 18 2005 at 11:08 AM Rating: Good
367 posts
can Leachman please update this?
Leachman moved on to other things. I miss his help and application of good math to different subjob and equip questions. Ahh well... The admins have far too many other important tasks (like keeping the site running) to play with this thread.

a more consolidated guide would be better! eh?

I attempted to consolidate other threads that were useful in my links sticky. You can find some more in depth information in those threads if you wish to research SATA further (and get a better grasp on how Assasin affects SATA usage post 60.) However, people often don't look at those links and I believe it is very helpful for this thread to remain stuck on the top of the forum. I haven't seen a better SATA guide than this one for new thieves and I feel confident that it helps a great deal of people. If you really don't like this sticky, you could try creating a new one. If enough other forum members preferred it than they could petition the admins for a swap-out. I'm not up to the task though. And I have no idea how much support you would get.
#121 Mar 10 2005 at 12:27 PM Rating: Decent
5 posts
Ok, my first post here... so bare with me..

As a lvl 19 thf myself, learning SA @ 15 taught me a few things.

#1 - THF still can't take much damage.
#2 - THF can deal damage, just not consistently
#3 - THF CAN stack a WS (Fast Blade), but the current result does not add much to the overall total.

In my experience, it is better to SA, Attack, then WS>Skill Chain, than to SA>WS...

I hit with about 50-60 with SA, then an additional 15-30 with Fast Blade. With SA>Ws I only hit about 60 on average. No overall gain.

Anyone else gettings these results?
#122 Mar 17 2005 at 12:15 PM Rating: Decent
224 posts
actually no...Sneak Attack will work when u are behind the mob...alone or standing behind someone else u get all the hate from it. Trick Attack will work when u are behind someone...even if they are not behind the mob it will still work(unless it misses) and they will get all the hate. so yeah a "Trick partner" really makes things easier...
75 blm, 75 nin, 75 brd, 64 bst, 57 pld, 53 rdm
NPC 65
RotZ= Complete
CoP= 8.1
Retired from FFXI.
Retired from LOTRO
Retired from Rift
#123 Mar 28 2005 at 9:54 AM Rating: Decent
589 posts
Hello thieves. Thought I would check in and see what's going on in ffxiland. No doubt this topic is old and crusty by now. I have no idea what thieving is like in ffxi anymore, so maybe someone else can take over this thread and fix it up. I'm sure it doesn't reflect reality anymore.

Lostink, shoot me an email: leachman_ss@yahoo.com

We can figure something out. Either I'll give you my password, or something else that will allow the sticky to be useful.
#124 Apr 13 2005 at 9:28 AM Rating: Decent
505 posts
ja "Sneak(Trick) Attack
/wait 45
/p "Sneak(Trick) Attack @15, tp = <tp>"
/wait 15
/echo Sneak(Trick) Attack is ready!

This is a good macro to use to a certain extent, but I just wanted to say that if you use another macro before the time it takes for the /echo to come up in the log, it cancels it out. Also you can miss this sometimes and not realise it is ready, so for all my ability macros I use /recast. This will display say, Sneak Attack like this:

Sneak Attack [0:00] (when it is ready)

This is inputted into the macro like so:

/recast "Sneak Attack"

This is used for a differnt macro all together to my SA macro, but you can view all /recast times on all your abilities together. Just thought I should get that alternative across ^^ It really helps me out a lot.
[sm]Jezter ~(Diabolos) - TeamYosha
Tarutaru - 73DRG/WAR 60THF/NIN - Rank 7 Bastok
53 Bonecraft~ Protective Specs. 06/07/06
Valkurm Emperor: 1/1 ~ Leaping Lizzy: 0/8 ~ BP Vorax: 1/7 ~ Jolly Green: 1/1 ~ Morion Worm: 1/6 ~ Ose: 1/1 ~ Dune Widow: 0/7 ~ Spiny Spipi: 1/4 ~ Hoo Mjuu: 0/2 ~ Spook: 0/23
#125 Apr 14 2005 at 5:14 PM Rating: Decent
144 posts
Just my .02 here.

I had my macro set up just as you sedcribed in the first post:

/ja "Sneak Attack" <me>
/wait 1
/ja "Trick Attack" <me>

and was having some problems from time to time with the server/my lagg causing only the SA to go off. This also happened with a /wait 2 but not as often. I found that putting a /wait 3 seemed to work the best and has so far never missed the TA part of the macro. As for adding a WS to the mix I prefer to use 2 macros when doing this that way I dont have to make a mess of SATA macros for my WS and I have WS macros that dont have the SATA prep delay in them. As for timing this I found hitting the WS macro while my character is going through the TA animation (hands glowing green) seems to work the best. Now if some one has posted all this before dont flame me I have not yet had a chance to read everyting else here but I did notice some discussion on the timing so that is why I am posting this. Also by adding an aditional second to the macro I did not notice much of a difference in putting the SATA to the mob I did however notice that my macro always works

/ja "Sneak Attack" <me>
/wait 3
/ja "Trick Attack" <me>
/wait 60
/echo ********** SATA ready again************

I use the /echo command so I know when it is ready and dont spam the party screen. Of course if I use another macro in this time I will not get my /echo but that is OK I just hit the SATA macro again (while in place of course) to either get a countdown timer of how much longer or the macro goes off like it should.




[cyan]Fear is your only weakness, conquer it and be strong.
Paragon of Samuri Excelence
Black Mage:Paragon of Black Mage Excelence
#126 Apr 22 2005 at 12:44 PM Rating: Decent
43 posts
this guide was very helpful in understanding SA & TA, and how they can be used together or in combination with WS. This will definitely helpe me as I lvl thf so that I have a better understanding to maximize my damage...Thanks
#127 Apr 22 2005 at 3:33 PM Rating: Good
368 posts

T.T really helpful. Especially for someone like me who's been a hard line mage who doesn't know much about /ws and marcoing it and what works. -.-' explains the gust slash thing though.

(Wondered for a long time why it wouldn't work.)

Thx ^^
Redsilent (Retired) Windurst Rank 8 (CoP 2-5)
LS -Social: HeroicSouls |
Server - Fairy
Jobs: [75 Rdm][75 Whm][57 Thf][53 Smn][66 Drg]
RDM AF[6/6]WHM AF[6/6]DRG AF [6/6]THF AF [4/6}
#128 Apr 25 2005 at 7:56 PM Rating: Decent
10 posts
Hide is really a lot simpler than it seems, there are only a few things you need to remember.

1) Hide is treated almost identically to casting the Spell, Invisible, except for a few differences, so you should make sure that it is the last Job Ability that you use. Using Sneak Attack after Hide will just deactivate the effect of Hide.

2) When getting ready to Hide, remember that it only prevents the enemy from Sight detection. If you are fighting Crawlers, or other monsters that attack and detect by sound, using Hide will result in a failure, reading "PC tries to Hide, but is noticed by the MOB."

3) When under the effect of Hide, it is true that, considering you activated Sneak Attack beforehand, you may gain the effect of Sneak Attack from any angle you desire. A popular use of Hide when you first obtain this skill, is on the Goblins that many parties Level up on from 44-48. Since they only track by sight, using Hide during battle is perfectly fine, and will work wonders for hate-control in a pinch. Some can use Hide to stack two SA/TA's onto a single tank in the same battle. I myself used it for when i had acquired enough TP to use my WS in the party.

4)Hide has yet another VERY important use, as well: Using it with a sight detecting monster (such as the aforementioned Goblin) you can actually LOSE all emnity on them and gain the effect of invisibly, mid fight, allowing for a safe retreat.

Hope this helps out some.
WAR 30 MNK 28 WHM 01 BLM 24 RDM 32
THF 60 PLD 00 DRK 00 BST 06 RNG 18
BRD 49 NIN 27 SAM 01 DRG 07 SMN 04
BLU 00 COR 00 PUP 12

"Just because you can't sing is no reason to hate my singing! :P" ~*Ikijha*~

Sylph - Send me a tell, I'm on a lot.
#129 May 02 2005 at 6:01 PM Rating: Decent
100 posts
must be because of the last update but SA is stacking with elemental WS again such as iron tempest ? go figure

#130 May 05 2005 at 5:51 PM Rating: Decent
26 posts
lol nice spelling, good add though
#131 May 09 2005 at 3:39 PM Rating: Decent
21 posts
Very helpful. Thank you!
#132 May 20 2005 at 4:06 AM Rating: Decent
152 posts
Thanks for this information wouldn't have done it right without it... rated you up. Great info!
#133 Jun 06 2005 at 1:10 AM Rating: Decent
188 posts
just wanted to say great info, i was wondering if you could share some info for me on some advanced or just overall advnced macros for a thf, currently thf 38 Pugg Slyph sever, my main problem is i am on a ps2 so some things are kinda of a pain if you could share and shed some lights on ceartain things it would be greatly appreciated.

~~Pugg~~ 75 Paladin/65Thief
Koenig head [x]
Koenig hands [x]
Crimson Greaves [x]
Paragon Of Thief Excellence
Thief Retired
(> <)
#134 Jun 08 2005 at 5:52 PM Rating: Decent
4 posts
Ok so around 60 (this is just a question) do i still need Sneak attack in a party or should i just Use trick attack
Idgaff Is what you say when you want a noob to leave ya alone...
#135 Jun 20 2005 at 5:55 PM Rating: Decent
52 posts
Great post! very informant and will help me greatly lvling my THF sub.

I do have two contributions to the post, however:

1) Great Katana: Tachi: Jinpu also stacks with SA. I have tested it out on my old acct with my 50 Sam.

2) Just a suggestion for your diagram for SATA. You showed:


But wouldn't you want to SATA the PLD since he'd be the main tank?


*WAR (or whoever is puller) pulls mob
*PLD lines up behind mob
*THF lines up behind PLD
*THF pins hate on PLD with SATA
*PLD Vokes

So it would look more like:


Maybe I'm just missing somethiing, but that's what I noticed. If i'm wrong, let me know ^_^

Props on the post again and rate up.
- Titan Server
- Elvaan Male
- SAM67 WAR37 RNG35 THF30 NIN21
- Linkshell: Synergy
#136 Jun 24 2005 at 2:17 PM Rating: Decent
175 posts
leachman excellent guide i think im gonna tell people who are improperly set-up for my fuidamas to check this out. I've had people not set me up right and not get hate because they weren't behind the mob completely or they moved while I was trying to TA to hold the hate on them.
Server: Qutzalcoatl
Race: Galka
Country: Bastok
Rank: 6
Job Levels: THF 56 WAR 46 NIN 53 SAM 57 PLD 75
G1[o] G2[o] G3[o] G4[o]G5[o]
AFweapon[o] AFhat[o] AFfeet[o] AFgloves[o] AFlegs[o] AFbody[o]

Race: Tartaru
Country: Sandoria
Rank: 1
Blm 5
#137 Jul 09 2005 at 2:44 PM Rating: Decent
21 posts
Very nice guide reading it up as now I am planing to LVL my THF its currently at 20 and I cant wait for Viper Bite. I am LVLing it up for my WAR SJ but still plan on playing around with it in future I think I wont be able to quit after 33.
#138 Sep 08 2005 at 10:09 AM Rating: Decent
1,352 posts
Thanks for the guide, I'd just like to point out that in the axe section you have "Gale Axe" labeled "Galka Axe". This is a great guide thank you for posting it.
(Tarek on Unicorn)
Cry havoc and let slip the dogs of war.
Haste/DA/Kick/Triple Attack Mechanics
War Forum:
Feel our power, know our pain...
#139 Sep 08 2005 at 7:58 PM Rating: Decent
368 posts
Nice guide.
100+3 Goldsmithing

#140 Oct 01 2005 at 10:48 AM Rating: Decent
487 posts
Excellent job! A couple of comments from an old retired thf:

1)If you have the time or energy to make a revision, there is a post in here about doing a recast, which I would like to echo with great approval. Critical importance to know when SA and TA (and, lest we forget that we are thieves... Steal)are ready to go again. Easy macro, and suggest you put it in the same place on every macro palette:

/recast "Sneak Attack"
/recast "Trick Attack"
/recast "Steal"
/recast ...whatever else you want... 2 hr? sure..

2) If thief is puller (very common at all levels), learn to cast your Sneak Attack (or later, your SATA) out in the field, without engaging the mob (use boomer, other ranged attack to pull). Just learn to time it so you have 10-15 seconds once you get back to camp to get in position, engage and fire. But if you learn this early, you will quickly see the benefits of having your SA/TA ready again 10-15 seconds into the fight. You will want to have this technique honed to perfection by the time you get to Qufim...

3) Have a separate macro for SA, for TA, and for SATA (as well as one to let your party know when you are ready for SA_SATA/WS).
I found at early levels, once I got TA, there were plenty of situations where you want to pin hate on tank with TA, but you have already used SA... Don't always wait to throw the big SATA/WS; remember the job is not DD, but hate control.

4) Experiment with equipment switching macros at an early level (tons of references, especially over in Jobs/Red Mage). You want maximum DEX for SA, maximum AGI for TA, and maximum Att/Str for melee in between these special attacks. Just remember that you can switch all items EXCEPT main weapon, offhand weapon or shield, ranged attack weapon without losing TP.

5) Side note: get an xbow early, level marksmanship and keep it maxed if you can. Xbow and bloody bolts: thf rules as a farmer, hardly any downtime.

Zaub of Bastok/Cerberus:
Taru, 17/20@90
Bone 100+3+Sign/Leather 60+1
Alch/Wood/Cook/Cloth/Smith/Goldsmith 60
GS 51/Smith 53/Fishing 29
#141 Oct 13 2005 at 8:56 PM Rating: Decent
#142 Oct 30 2005 at 12:16 AM Rating: Decent
279 posts
Thank you, ty, ty
#143 Oct 31 2005 at 11:33 PM Rating: Decent
6 posts
I found after many random failed macros that I had to have a /wait 2 in between my sneak and trick. Mine looks like this now after i fixed it:

/party SATA
/ja "Sneak Attack" <me>
/wait 2
/ja "Trick Attack" <me>
/wait 2
/ws "Dancing Edge" <t>

Hope this helps some. Basically you have to play with it to find the way you like it.
<Thief> <Power>!!!
#144 Nov 06 2005 at 1:20 AM Rating: Default
226 posts
just sonme quick tips:

SATA as THF MAIN JOB will deal extra damage from both job abilities, as well as transfer hate.

SATA as THF SUBJOB will NOT deal extra damage from either SA or TA. SA will become a guaranteed regular -critical- hit (no extra dmg like THF main would). TA wont deal extra damage at all, just transfer hate onto your SATA partner

not many people know that....

also, il describe SATA + Hide


Hide is a job ability that turns you invisible, and will shave off ALL hate from a sight aggro monster-- as long as you dont have more then "Initial" hate.

Initial hate is obtained when you are aggrod by a sight-aggro monster. Initial hate can also be obtained by -for example- missing your arrow/bolt when you pull. You gain more then inital hate if you:

Melee hit he monster
ranged hit the monster
use a Job ability that gives hate
cure someone with hate
use a BRD song against the mob

SATA + Hide

SATA + Hide is a great technique that is useful when you are going to SATA a SIGHT aggro monster, but not use a weaponskill.

NOTE: SATA + Hide will NOT work if you have more then initial hate.

You get aggrod by a sight mob on purpose to bring it to camp, haveing both SATA and Hide ready to activate. TANK provokes mob, you get behind the tank, so now you look like this:


Now, you would activate SATA and then Hide, Engage the monster, and strike. BAM! full SATA damage, full hate onto the tank, without a trick partner. You get to look cool being invisible then all of a sudden do uber-damage and appear out of nowhere.

Edited, Sun Nov 6 01:48:19 2005 by Jubejubes

Name: Jubes (RETIRED)
Server: Remora
Main Jobs: 75RDM, 58BST, 44BLM, 33BRD

Name: Lexn (RETIRED)
Server: Quetzalcoatl
Main Jobs: 19THF, 24WAR


Name: Jayp Lv22 Orc Hunter
Server: Eldre' Thalas

Flame me all ya want, i dont give a sh*t. if your stupid enough to argue with me about some internet video game, then to **** with you.
#145 Nov 06 2005 at 10:11 AM Rating: Decent
124 posts
Awsome guide!

But could you plz put that RNGs get hate with scavenge?
I want other RNGs to know to know that before they die like me ;;

#146 Nov 06 2005 at 12:42 PM Rating: Default
226 posts
scavenge gives hate, as well as Sharpshot. i aactually kept hate when our tank DC's as RNG in the dunes. arrow, arrow, arrow, sharpshot, scavenge arrow arrow lol

Name: Jubes (RETIRED)
Server: Remora
Main Jobs: 75RDM, 58BST, 44BLM, 33BRD

Name: Lexn (RETIRED)
Server: Quetzalcoatl
Main Jobs: 19THF, 24WAR


Name: Jayp Lv22 Orc Hunter
Server: Eldre' Thalas

Flame me all ya want, i dont give a sh*t. if your stupid enough to argue with me about some internet video game, then to **** with you.
#147 Nov 09 2005 at 5:39 AM Rating: Good
1,146 posts
Remembers me of the good old times when i started playing.

Nice infos but nothing new.
And a few colors would make it easier to read.
Final Fantasy XI
Server: Quetzalcoatl
Name: Kyana (retired)
Jobs: THF75 PLD70 BST70

#148 Nov 21 2005 at 10:43 PM Rating: Decent
5 posts
I'm a big fat juicy newb! i hav'nt even played yet, but im gonna play THF. Can you give me some pointers? <_>
#149 Dec 20 2005 at 6:36 AM Rating: Decent
1 post
Does Agi help SATA or SATA VB PLZ HELP
#150 Feb 16 2006 at 2:46 PM Rating: Decent
22 posts
Thank you. This thread was most helpful. Definitely deserving of being permanently placed in some most important Thieves "How to" guide. It's amazing how in a lot of places, thieves are the main class I can't find great info on. They have comprehensive guides out there, but not for thieves. This works great in conjunction with the thieves guide that seems to be only on this site.

Edited, Thu Feb 16 14:52:17 2006 by furrivaser
#151 Feb 23 2006 at 5:44 PM Rating: Decent
1,135 posts
While i'm here ~_~ an updated list/corrected names

Bold'ed additions

an O with things that do well w/ SA/TA on THF main.
And a + with things that do well w/ SA/TA on /THF.


H2H: O Combo, Shoulder tackle, One inch Punch, Backhand Blow, O Raging Fists, Spinning attack. Howling Fist, +Dragon Kick, Asuran Fists.

Dagger: Wasp Sting, O Shadowstitch, O Viper Bite, O Dancing Edge, O Shark Bite, O Evisceration.

Sword: O Fast Blade, Flat Blade, Circle Blade, O Vorpal Blade, Swift Blade, Savage Blade.

Great Sword: +Hard Slash, Power Slash, Shockwave, +Crescent moon, +Sickle Moon, +Spinning Slash, +Ground Strike.

Club: Brainshaker, Skullbreaker, O True strike, Judgement, Hexa Strike, +Black Halo.

Staff: Heavy Swing, Shell Crusher, +Full Swing, Spirit Taker, Retribution.

Axe: Raging Axe, Smash Axe, Gale Axe, Avalanche Axe, +Spinning Axe, Rampage, +Calamity, +Mistral Axe, Decimation.

Great axe: Shield Break, Iron Tempest, +Sturmwind, Armor Break, Keen Edge, Weapon Break, +Raging Rush, Full Break, +Steel Cyclone.

Scythe: Slice, Nightmare Scythe, Spinning Scythe, Vorpal Scythe, Guillotine, +Cross Reaper, +Spiral ****.

Spear: Double Thrust, Leg Sweep, Penta Thrust, Vorpal Thrust, Skewer, +Wheeling thrust, +Impulse Drive.

Katana: Blade: Rin, Blade: Retsu, Blade: Jin, Blade: Ten, Blade: Ku

Great Katana: +Tachi: Enpi, Tachi: Hobaku, Tachi: Goten, Tachi: Kagero, +Tachi: Jinpu, Tachi: Koki, +Tachi: Yukikaze, +Tachi: Gekko, +Tachi: Kasha


Few notes incase you wondered why i O or +'d some things.

H2H-Combo: Early on, this is one of the most damaging Boost+SA+WS on THF.

H2H-Raging Fists: a THF friend of mine on Coffers does this on bones, not an XP use, but it was still doing 2k :) which is nice.
Sword-Fast Blade: Like Combo, its a high-Damage SA+WS at lower levels on THF

Sword-Vorpal Blade: :) THF main on this w/ ridill can do insane Numbers.
Club-True Strike: THF mainhanding a Raphael's rod(Rare..) -can- do over 2.5k to XP-type blunt-weak mobs.
Staff-Full Swing: some MNK/THF do this on the CoP Wyrms, sleep to x amount TP, and let this monster out for 2,000+
Axe-Spinning Axe: It's actually not that great, but i figured i'd list it because for what it is, its a pretty decent axe SA ws if for some reason you weren't using GA on WAR/THF...

Axe-Calamity: at 300TP war/nin w/ 2hr up...this can do upwards of 1750 on IT... So SA/TA, but only at 300%.

Axe-Mistral Axe: kind of meh~ at ~800-900 but it is the only WS that can proc SATA ranged :).
Great Axe-Raging Rush: This isn't that much better SATA'd than it is un-SATA'd, but unSATA'd this is pretty bad-***...so it only improves then-on.

Great Axe-Break Skill: I believe the 'break' weaponskills don't stack with SATA, but i'm not sure enough to remove them.
Scythe-Cross Reaper: Not that impressive...Just i guess the first 'Decent' Scythe-SATAWS. However, why you would be /THF not using GS for Spinning slash is beyond me.

Scythe-Spiral ****: at 300TP...and only then. it has a 3.625X Damage mod. Though i haven't seen it SATA'd in or out an XP party... i did see a DRK use it on a Knight Crawler in CN while leveling his NPC. Landed for ~2600, now it was TW, but its also a one-hit WS. maybe it Crit'd, maybe it Double attacked, i'm not sure.
Reply To Thread

Colors Smileys Quote OriginalQuote Checked Help


Recent Visitors: 19 All times are in CDT
Anonymous Guests (19)