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Sneak Attack / Trick Attack + Weapon Skill GuideFollow

#127 Apr 22 2005 at 3:33 PM Rating: Good
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<3!

T.T really helpful. Especially for someone like me who's been a hard line mage who doesn't know much about /ws and marcoing it and what works. -.-' explains the gust slash thing though.

(Wondered for a long time why it wouldn't work.)

Thx ^^
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#128 Apr 25 2005 at 7:56 PM Rating: Decent
10 posts
Hide is really a lot simpler than it seems, there are only a few things you need to remember.

1) Hide is treated almost identically to casting the Spell, Invisible, except for a few differences, so you should make sure that it is the last Job Ability that you use. Using Sneak Attack after Hide will just deactivate the effect of Hide.

2) When getting ready to Hide, remember that it only prevents the enemy from Sight detection. If you are fighting Crawlers, or other monsters that attack and detect by sound, using Hide will result in a failure, reading "PC tries to Hide, but is noticed by the MOB."

3) When under the effect of Hide, it is true that, considering you activated Sneak Attack beforehand, you may gain the effect of Sneak Attack from any angle you desire. A popular use of Hide when you first obtain this skill, is on the Goblins that many parties Level up on from 44-48. Since they only track by sight, using Hide during battle is perfectly fine, and will work wonders for hate-control in a pinch. Some can use Hide to stack two SA/TA's onto a single tank in the same battle. I myself used it for when i had acquired enough TP to use my WS in the party.

4)Hide has yet another VERY important use, as well: Using it with a sight detecting monster (such as the aforementioned Goblin) you can actually LOSE all emnity on them and gain the effect of invisibly, mid fight, allowing for a safe retreat.

Hope this helps out some.
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#129 May 02 2005 at 6:01 PM Rating: Decent
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must be because of the last update but SA is stacking with elemental WS again such as iron tempest ? go figure
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#130 May 05 2005 at 5:51 PM Rating: Decent
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lol nice spelling, good add though
#131 May 09 2005 at 3:39 PM Rating: Decent
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Very helpful. Thank you!
#132 May 20 2005 at 4:06 AM Rating: Decent
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Thanks for this information wouldn't have done it right without it... rated you up. Great info!
#133 Jun 06 2005 at 1:10 AM Rating: Decent
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188 posts
hello
just wanted to say great info, i was wondering if you could share some info for me on some advanced or just overall advnced macros for a thf, currently thf 38 Pugg Slyph sever, my main problem is i am on a ps2 so some things are kinda of a pain if you could share and shed some lights on ceartain things it would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks
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#134 Jun 08 2005 at 5:52 PM Rating: Decent
4 posts
Ok so around 60 (this is just a question) do i still need Sneak attack in a party or should i just Use trick attack
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#135 Jun 20 2005 at 5:55 PM Rating: Decent
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Great post! very informant and will help me greatly lvling my THF sub.

I do have two contributions to the post, however:

1) Great Katana: Tachi: Jinpu also stacks with SA. I have tested it out on my old acct with my 50 Sam.

2) Just a suggestion for your diagram for SATA. You showed:

THF>WAR>mob>PLD

But wouldn't you want to SATA the PLD since he'd be the main tank?

Example:

*WAR (or whoever is puller) pulls mob
*PLD lines up behind mob
*THF lines up behind PLD
*THF pins hate on PLD with SATA
*PLD Vokes

So it would look more like:

THF>PLD>mob>WAR

Maybe I'm just missing somethiing, but that's what I noticed. If i'm wrong, let me know ^_^

Props on the post again and rate up.
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#136 Jun 24 2005 at 2:17 PM Rating: Decent
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leachman excellent guide i think im gonna tell people who are improperly set-up for my fuidamas to check this out. I've had people not set me up right and not get hate because they weren't behind the mob completely or they moved while I was trying to TA to hold the hate on them.
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#137 Jul 09 2005 at 2:44 PM Rating: Decent
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Very nice guide reading it up as now I am planing to LVL my THF its currently at 20 and I cant wait for Viper Bite. I am LVLing it up for my WAR SJ but still plan on playing around with it in future I think I wont be able to quit after 33.
#138 Sep 08 2005 at 10:09 AM Rating: Decent
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Thanks for the guide, I'd just like to point out that in the axe section you have "Gale Axe" labeled "Galka Axe". This is a great guide thank you for posting it.
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#139 Sep 08 2005 at 7:58 PM Rating: Decent
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Nice guide.
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#140 Oct 01 2005 at 10:48 AM Rating: Decent
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Excellent job! A couple of comments from an old retired thf:

1)If you have the time or energy to make a revision, there is a post in here about doing a recast, which I would like to echo with great approval. Critical importance to know when SA and TA (and, lest we forget that we are thieves... Steal)are ready to go again. Easy macro, and suggest you put it in the same place on every macro palette:

/recast "Sneak Attack"
/recast "Trick Attack"
/recast "Steal"
/recast ...whatever else you want... 2 hr? sure..

2) If thief is puller (very common at all levels), learn to cast your Sneak Attack (or later, your SATA) out in the field, without engaging the mob (use boomer, other ranged attack to pull). Just learn to time it so you have 10-15 seconds once you get back to camp to get in position, engage and fire. But if you learn this early, you will quickly see the benefits of having your SA/TA ready again 10-15 seconds into the fight. You will want to have this technique honed to perfection by the time you get to Qufim...

3) Have a separate macro for SA, for TA, and for SATA (as well as one to let your party know when you are ready for SA_SATA/WS).
I found at early levels, once I got TA, there were plenty of situations where you want to pin hate on tank with TA, but you have already used SA... Don't always wait to throw the big SATA/WS; remember the job is not DD, but hate control.

4) Experiment with equipment switching macros at an early level (tons of references, especially over in Jobs/Red Mage). You want maximum DEX for SA, maximum AGI for TA, and maximum Att/Str for melee in between these special attacks. Just remember that you can switch all items EXCEPT main weapon, offhand weapon or shield, ranged attack weapon without losing TP.

5) Side note: get an xbow early, level marksmanship and keep it maxed if you can. Xbow and bloody bolts: thf rules as a farmer, hardly any downtime.

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#141 Oct 13 2005 at 8:56 PM Rating: Decent
YESSSS RESPONSE
#142 Oct 30 2005 at 12:16 AM Rating: Decent
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Thank you, ty, ty
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#143 Oct 31 2005 at 11:33 PM Rating: Decent
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I found after many random failed macros that I had to have a /wait 2 in between my sneak and trick. Mine looks like this now after i fixed it:

/party SATA
/ja "Sneak Attack" <me>
/wait 2
/ja "Trick Attack" <me>
/wait 2
/ws "Dancing Edge" <t>

Hope this helps some. Basically you have to play with it to find the way you like it.
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#144 Nov 06 2005 at 1:20 AM Rating: Default
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just sonme quick tips:

SATA as THF MAIN JOB will deal extra damage from both job abilities, as well as transfer hate.

SATA as THF SUBJOB will NOT deal extra damage from either SA or TA. SA will become a guaranteed regular -critical- hit (no extra dmg like THF main would). TA wont deal extra damage at all, just transfer hate onto your SATA partner

not many people know that....

also, il describe SATA + Hide

Hide

Hide is a job ability that turns you invisible, and will shave off ALL hate from a sight aggro monster-- as long as you dont have more then "Initial" hate.

Initial hate is obtained when you are aggrod by a sight-aggro monster. Initial hate can also be obtained by -for example- missing your arrow/bolt when you pull. You gain more then inital hate if you:

Melee hit he monster
ranged hit the monster
use a Job ability that gives hate
cure someone with hate
use a BRD song against the mob
etc...

SATA + Hide

SATA + Hide is a great technique that is useful when you are going to SATA a SIGHT aggro monster, but not use a weaponskill.

NOTE: SATA + Hide will NOT work if you have more then initial hate.

example:
You get aggrod by a sight mob on purpose to bring it to camp, haveing both SATA and Hide ready to activate. TANK provokes mob, you get behind the tank, so now you look like this:

THF> TANK> <MOB

Now, you would activate SATA and then Hide, Engage the monster, and strike. BAM! full SATA damage, full hate onto the tank, without a trick partner. You get to look cool being invisible then all of a sudden do uber-damage and appear out of nowhere.

Edited, Sun Nov 6 01:48:19 2005 by Jubejubes
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#145 Nov 06 2005 at 10:11 AM Rating: Decent
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124 posts
Awsome guide!

But could you plz put that RNGs get hate with scavenge?
I want other RNGs to know to know that before they die like me ;;

lol
#146 Nov 06 2005 at 12:42 PM Rating: Default
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226 posts
scavenge gives hate, as well as Sharpshot. i aactually kept hate when our tank DC's as RNG in the dunes. arrow, arrow, arrow, sharpshot, scavenge arrow arrow lol
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#147 Nov 09 2005 at 5:39 AM Rating: Good
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Remembers me of the good old times when i started playing.

Nice infos but nothing new.
And a few colors would make it easier to read.
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#148 Nov 21 2005 at 10:43 PM Rating: Decent
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I'm a big fat juicy newb! i hav'nt even played yet, but im gonna play THF. Can you give me some pointers? <_>
#149 Dec 20 2005 at 6:36 AM Rating: Decent
1 post
Does Agi help SATA or SATA VB PLZ HELP
#150 Feb 16 2006 at 2:46 PM Rating: Decent
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Thank you. This thread was most helpful. Definitely deserving of being permanently placed in some most important Thieves "How to" guide. It's amazing how in a lot of places, thieves are the main class I can't find great info on. They have comprehensive guides out there, but not for thieves. This works great in conjunction with the thieves guide that seems to be only on this site.



Edited, Thu Feb 16 14:52:17 2006 by furrivaser
#151 Feb 23 2006 at 5:44 PM Rating: Decent
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While i'm here ~_~ an updated list/corrected names


Bold'ed additions

an O with things that do well w/ SA/TA on THF main.
And a + with things that do well w/ SA/TA on /THF.

==================================================

H2H: O Combo, Shoulder tackle, One inch Punch, Backhand Blow, O Raging Fists, Spinning attack. Howling Fist, +Dragon Kick, Asuran Fists.

Dagger: Wasp Sting, O Shadowstitch, O Viper Bite, O Dancing Edge, O Shark Bite, O Evisceration.

Sword: O Fast Blade, Flat Blade, Circle Blade, O Vorpal Blade, Swift Blade, Savage Blade.

Great Sword: +Hard Slash, Power Slash, Shockwave, +Crescent moon, +Sickle Moon, +Spinning Slash, +Ground Strike.

Club: Brainshaker, Skullbreaker, O True strike, Judgement, Hexa Strike, +Black Halo.

Staff: Heavy Swing, Shell Crusher, +Full Swing, Spirit Taker, Retribution.

Axe: Raging Axe, Smash Axe, Gale Axe, Avalanche Axe, +Spinning Axe, Rampage, +Calamity, +Mistral Axe, Decimation.

Great axe: Shield Break, Iron Tempest, +Sturmwind, Armor Break, Keen Edge, Weapon Break, +Raging Rush, Full Break, +Steel Cyclone.


Scythe: Slice, Nightmare Scythe, Spinning Scythe, Vorpal Scythe, Guillotine, +Cross Reaper, +Spiral ****.

Spear: Double Thrust, Leg Sweep, Penta Thrust, Vorpal Thrust, Skewer, +Wheeling thrust, +Impulse Drive.

Katana: Blade: Rin, Blade: Retsu, Blade: Jin, Blade: Ten, Blade: Ku

Great Katana: +Tachi: Enpi, Tachi: Hobaku, Tachi: Goten, Tachi: Kagero, +Tachi: Jinpu, Tachi: Koki, +Tachi: Yukikaze, +Tachi: Gekko, +Tachi: Kasha

==============================================

Few notes incase you wondered why i O or +'d some things.


H2H-Combo: Early on, this is one of the most damaging Boost+SA+WS on THF.

H2H-Raging Fists: a THF friend of mine on Coffers does this on bones, not an XP use, but it was still doing 2k :) which is nice.
------
Sword-Fast Blade: Like Combo, its a high-Damage SA+WS at lower levels on THF

Sword-Vorpal Blade: :) THF main on this w/ ridill can do insane Numbers.
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Club-True Strike: THF mainhanding a Raphael's rod(Rare..) -can- do over 2.5k to XP-type blunt-weak mobs.
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Staff-Full Swing: some MNK/THF do this on the CoP Wyrms, sleep to x amount TP, and let this monster out for 2,000+
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Axe-Spinning Axe: It's actually not that great, but i figured i'd list it because for what it is, its a pretty decent axe SA ws if for some reason you weren't using GA on WAR/THF...

Axe-Calamity: at 300TP war/nin w/ 2hr up...this can do upwards of 1750 on IT... So SA/TA, but only at 300%.

Axe-Mistral Axe: kind of meh~ at ~800-900 but it is the only WS that can proc SATA ranged :).
-------
Great Axe-Raging Rush: This isn't that much better SATA'd than it is un-SATA'd, but unSATA'd this is pretty bad-***...so it only improves then-on.

Great Axe-Break Skill: I believe the 'break' weaponskills don't stack with SATA, but i'm not sure enough to remove them.
-------
Scythe-Cross Reaper: Not that impressive...Just i guess the first 'Decent' Scythe-SATAWS. However, why you would be /THF not using GS for Spinning slash is beyond me.

Scythe-Spiral ****: at 300TP...and only then. it has a 3.625X Damage mod. Though i haven't seen it SATA'd in or out an XP party... i did see a DRK use it on a Knight Crawler in CN while leveling his NPC. Landed for ~2600, now it was TW, but its also a one-hit WS. maybe it Crit'd, maybe it Double attacked, i'm not sure.
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