Vajra informationFollow

No it'll be killshot 5000 DC skeletons.

Finally done with 1500 aquans:
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a372/Breaze/Vajratrial3.jpg

Next is 2000 dragons. When I was looking for camps I came up with this:
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a372/Breaze/pukcamps.jpg

The puks in Wajaom Woodlands are easy prey. Problem is there are not enough of them. The marker which says: "Puk camp 1" only has 5 puks. In this camp I am waiting on repops. The marker which says: "Puk camp 2" holds 6 puks. But the problem is they are a bit spaced out. And this camp is often taken by other people. (Please ignore the other markers they are in written dutch.)

Does anybody have any suggestions as to where I can find a better dragon camp? I was thinking Riverne - Site B01 maybe? The level cap is gone here and Ignidrake are 58-60. But I have not been up there myself yet. If anybody has any information on a good dragon camp I am all ears.

On a different note: It seems that lvl 80 relic weapons did not get any extra boosts except the stuff we can read on the weapon itself. So mandau only got +4 dmg and +5 attack for now. The hidden effects on it are still the same.

Taken from: http://www.bluegartr.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90723&page=44


Edited, Jul 11th 2010 4:00am by Breaze

Classic opening. I approve.

Second, thanks for gathering some data. Even though I don't play anymore, I find the analysis interesting. Let's see if I remember how to do this.

Level 1 mobs, therefore:
-Capped pDIF & Critical Hit: Max=3.15
-Capped fSTR: For a D40 weapon (Rank 4), +12 wDmg.
-DEX+138 = +138wDmg
Total wDmg = 190

Expected max for SA would then be 598 with no bonus, and not accounting for JT "Crit Damage+".

Assuming that actually is a straight +5% increase, new max is 627.
However, that would mean the bonus for "Enhances SA Effect II" would be something like +40-45%. Hrm.

Double-checking this against X's Knife.
fSTR->Rank3 (Int(34/9)=3), +11wDmg
-Dex+138 = +138wDmg
Total wDmg = 183
Expected Max = 634 [665 after "+5% Crit hit Bonus"]

But your max is significantly higher than that, and I'm not quite sure how I'm supposed to explain that. The only thing I can think of is that either the +5% Crit Damage Bonus isn't +5%, or Mandies as a family have some kind of piercing weakness that isn't listed on Wiki. Using the 634 result above, there's a 22.4% difference I can't really account for (assuming 5% Damage bonus) [Or a 20.2% difference if X's Knife is actually a 12% boost in damage, as I've seen tossed around in the past].

This leaves me at a loss as to what's really going on. :P Any further analysis would be kinda silly. However, if we give this "mystery 22.4% bonus" and go backwards from your max Vajra hit, you'd get a bonus of ~+15% for "Enhances Sneak Attack II". Take that with a grain of salt, because like I said, there's something going on I'm not totally sure of.

Oh wow check this. We already knew:

AM1 is now 1:30 in duration, an extension of 30s
AM2 is now 2:00 in duration, an extension of 30s
AM3 is now 3:00 in duration, an extension of 60s

But what nobody reported yet (as far as I know) is that the AM effects also got more potent!

Old AM2 on level 75 weapon:
Base attack in tp gear no food: 354
tp 207 attack: 376 - 354 = 22 attack
tp 299 attack: 413 - 354 = 59 attack

New AM2 on level 80 weapon:
Base attack in tp gear no food: 389
tp 203 attack: 421 - 389 = 32 attack
tp 208 attack: 423 - 389 = 34 attack
tp 256 attack: 452 - 389 = 63 attack
tp 291 attack: 474 - 389 = 85 attack
tp 298 attack: 478 - 389 = 89 attack

That is a 50% boost in attack across the board.

Going from this we can assume AM1 also gained in potency and now offers more accuracy. 50% more? What would that mean?

Old AM1 on level 75 weapon:
+10 accuracy at 100tp and scales up linear to +19 accuracy at 199tp

New AM1 on level 80 weapon (assuming 50% boost as seen on AM2):
+15 accuracy at 100tp and scales up linear to +29 accuracy at 199tp

AM3 probably has the same double attack rate but got a boost by adding the 60s extension as confirmed.

I am starting to like Vajra more and more that is for sure.

Edited, Jul 22nd 2010 5:30am by Breaze

Well I know that my friends short sampling suggested a 10% increase. Still unverified by anyone else; It's just that Gobli says 5%. Westerners and JP's can't always agree on everything though. Their wiki and ours disagree on Spharai counter, for example.
I'm glad to see Mythics got buffed ^^. That may be a level 1 piercing mob, but damn that is sexy damages paired w/ the X's. You gotta get that new crit mantle too, and the crit body. Maybe figure out the latent on fatality belt. That'd be a hell of a lot of dmg one could deal simply from SA/TA'ing in fights we can't melee. That equip is seriously going to boost Mandalic Stab as well.

I was looking into that but Cavaros Mantle does not seem very interesting. It seems to be a 1% boost only. I would like to think that some other mantles can beat that easy, am I right?

http://www.bluegartr.com/forum/showthread.php?t=96424 Under post number 5.

Loki's Kaftan seems awesome but it has not yet been found. Probably will come from a Tier 4 abyssea NM.

Plants can go to hell.

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a372/Breaze/lvl85Vajra.png

I will have info on the SATA III/aftermath tomorrow.

The 2000 plants were actually much more easy then the puk stage due to the great camp and weak tp attacks plants have.
It also helped that I got stronger so I needed less time to tp and I could ws sooner. It still was boring but who cares I got it done.

thf/nin SA test with gear: lvl 85 vajra
STR 74 + 16
DEX 92 + 63 = 155
attack 457

Three rounds with different setups. All targets - Tiny Mandragora.

Vajra, base dmg: 43 Enhances SA effect III
1. 1046
2. 996
3. 901
4. 1030
5. 1035
6. 1015
7. 1051
8. 925
9. 1050
10.973

high: 1051 low: 901 average: 1002,2


For the second set of tests I wanted a better comparison between the old lvl 80 Vajra and the current 85 Vajra.
So I decided to take out the DEX variable. So I used the same amount of DEX as I had during the level 80 tests. Which was: DEX 84+54 = 138.
So I took off some gear to get this:
STR 74 + 22
DEX 92 + 46 = 138 the exact same amount as during the level 80 tests.
attack 455

Vajra, base dmg: 43 Enhances SA effect III
1. 972
2. 923
3. 935
4. 951
5. 967
6. 848
7. 827
8. 938
9. 902
10.901

high: 972 low: 827 average: 916,4

Note how a small drop of just (155 - 138 = 17) 17 DEX has a dramatic impact on the numbers.

For reference the old level 80 test was this:
STR 67+16
DEX 84+54 = 138
attack 493

Vajra, base dmg: 40 Enhances SA effect II
1. 758
2. 845
3. 828
4. 861
5. 886
6. 783
7. 846
8. 887
9. 862
10.871

high:887 low:758 average:842,7

Going from other posters in this topic it roughly looks like this:
lvl 75 Vajra, D31: Enhances SA effect I: 10% boost.
lvl 80 Vajra, D40: Enhances SA effect II: 15% boost.
lvl 85 Vajra, D43: Enhances SA effect III: 20% boost.
But feel free to correct me if I am wrong.


Last but not least I wanted to go all out. So full DEX and X's knife:

STR 74 + 16
DEX 92 + 63 = 155
attack 457
Vajra/X's, base dmg: 43 Enhances SA effect III, Increases crit damage
1. 1168
2. 1136
3. 1166
4. 1163
5. 1050
6. 1152
7. 996
8. 1116
9. 1018
10.1068

high: 1168 low: 996 average: 1103,3


Aftermath test:
Did SE add extra attack duration and buffs like they did for level 80?
No they did not.

AM1 is still 1:30
AM2 is still 2:00
AM3 is still 3:00

Old AM2 on level 80 weapon:
Base attack in tp gear no food: 389
tp 203 attack: 421 - 389 = 32 attack
tp 208 attack: 423 - 389 = 34 attack
tp 256 attack: 452 - 389 = 63 attack
tp 291 attack: 474 - 389 = 85 attack
tp 298 attack: 478 - 389 = 89 attack

New AM2 on level 85 weapon:
tp 207 attack 488 - 454 = 34 attack
tp 289 attack 543 - 460 = 83 attack

Don't know what happened to my base attack there but it does not matter.
AM2 stayed the same at level 85. So we can assume AM1 and AM3 also stayed the same

Conclusion:
Vajra was awesome at level 80 and it got a bit more awesome at level 85.

If a Mandau thf on Levi is reading this: I would like to have a showdown between Vajra and mandau.
Please send me a tell in-game or PM me. Thank you. inb4 parses don't matter.

Edited, Sep 21st 2010 8:20pm by Breaze

Thanks Sha. Still not sure what to use as off-hand. SE keeps cranking out these nice daggers which all look interesting: Auric, Rapidus Sax, thunder kila+1, Fusetto+1 (ws boost version). Leaning towards Rapidus Sax now but that will probably change again this update.

okay but can somebody with final upgrade version confirm this?

Lookin very sexy. I have to wonder if the bonus counts towards the crit dmg+ cap, which would/could be lame for Abyssea.

I second this motion. It's the most logical way to program it (SA/TA == original damage multiplied by X where X is Vajra boost). I trust Breaze here; the boost should be independent of any crit caps.

All lvl 90 relic/mythic weaponskills got a buff. It is weapon only.
http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/90723-Relic-Augments/page99

15% dmg boost on mythic ws based on burtgang and atonement dmg.
860 : 750 = 1.1466 15% boost rounded up.

Did Vajra and mandy stab get the same 15% dmg bonus on ws?
All targets Tiny Mandragora. Thf/sam used ws only. Did not use SA because Vajra boosts SA. I need to focus on the ws only.

Vajra base dmg: 47
710
626
606
218 (main hand missed?)
506
133 (main hand missed?)
518
589

Angr Harpe base dmg: 46
513
447
545
552
513
592

Take highest dmg from each test:
710 : 592 = 1.199 20% boost rounded up. Take into account the small sample size and the difference in base damage for each dagger and 15% is a very plausible number.

Edited, Jan 5th 2011 2:24am by Breaze

Yup that is exactly what I'm asking :]

I would hate to overlook something that significant on ws damage. It would change the comparison of twash(no boost) vs both relic/mythic. I have been considering what project I might undertake when lance mythic is done and considered mandau to pair with twash and thought if this while dreaming of DW both and what to mainhand :P we may have to revisit rudra vs mercy/mandalic :)

It would also adjust the value of dex/agi vs wsc.

I look forward to the results :]

Edited, Nov 9th 2011 10:58am by Banalaty

Edit:
Technically, you would only have to SAWS if you are confident in the damage formula for your SA's (little funky for vajra) and the mandalic stab formula. 15% is enough of a bonus espsecially with the SATA boosts on mythic to be able to tell pretty quick.

Worst case, you probably only need to test SA solo for lv 95 boost numbers then SAWS and skip solo WS boosts since i havent seen any reports of relic or mythic getting WS damage boosts since the 15/25 at lv 90 and just predict WS damage on paper if you want to save some time.

Edited, Nov 9th 2011 11:27am by Banalaty

the REAL question is...
does it blend??

Could you give a bit more information? What are you analysing exactly?

If possible, yes. It doesnt matter so much for vajra (only 15% boost, and the WS is less impressive than mercy), but it would for stacked mercy stroke (25% boost, much stronger 3ftp, 60% str mod). Although with the big boost to SA/TA on Vajra, that 15% applying to a super sized SATA might make up some of that ground :)

I am a little on the fence if i want to do a Mandau (and offhand twash) and take thf to that extra oomph level, even though a little redundant with twash already, or invest that into an Annihilator for rng (obviouly much more 'efficient' but i dont love rng like i do thf).

If the 25% boost applies to the whole SATA+Mercy shabang, i might be more tempted to do that than if it only applies to the 3ftp part and ignores the big fat dex/agi boost from SATA. (assuming of course that the mythic 15% works the same as the relic 25% and thus your test would give insight to relics :P)



Edited, Jan 7th 2012 5:54am by Banalaty

Just checking, the 710 damage WS is just 1hit (assuming near 100TP so 2.0ftp) and NOT crit-ed? Are you accounting for that 710 becoming a crit if stacked with SA?

It looks like you just took the 710 non-crit WS and added it to the SA, but if they were stacked, the 710 would get jumped up with the crit and crit damage bonus traits/gear. Just want to make sure im not overlooking something before i go make a mandau and wonder why im not getting 25% to a full SATAMS :P

Side note: I finished my Drg mythic, so once its 95 i can compare notes on aftermath and stuff :)

Edited, Jan 9th 2012 5:03pm by Banalaty

Well in that case, we can turn your numbers into crits and see how it works out. How much crit bonus you get in gear and junk. I believe your SA numbers were in 14% crit damage, so assuming thats what you had for your SATAWS numbers (if you have a different crit bonus let me know and we can figure it out for that instead).

1687 SA.
710 WS.

710 was obviously at capped atk, and probably deecent rolls on randomizers. so 2.52 is highest possible Pdif with 2 good rolls. Crit max with good rolls is 3.15.

3.15/2.52= 25% more damage if it was critted. So take 710*1.25=887.

Now we add whatever your crit bonus was. Going with 14%+5%(Trait+lokis) to match your SA numbers. If you had other crit damage lemme know :)
887*1.19=1055

So if you had SA+WS on that one, it would have been 1055 give or take a couple points. (depends on how close to 'perfect' your randomizer rolls were to get that 710)

1055+SA damage, but we have to remove Vajra's weapon damage from the SA and only include dex since SAWS doesnt count your weapon twice.

1687 was 189 dex+51 Vajra base damage. Going with the 25% boost to entire SA via Vajra instead of just the dex as i think i understand it, also assuming Raider+2 gloves and 19% crit damage boost (correct me if these assumptions are wrong prz xD)

Working it backwards:
Dex=189*1.2=226 base damage via dex.(Raid+2 dex bonus)
51 damage dagger.
13 Capped fstr
SA=226+51+13=290 base damage.
290*3.15(max crit Pdif)=913
913*1.25=1141 (SA IV enhancement)
1141*1.19=1357 (19% Crit bonus)

Hmm now im not sure. That doesnt quite line up with your SA numbers at all. What am I overlooking for your SA numbers?

Im retarded. I forgot mandies weak to piercing. No wonder. ANYWAY >_>
1357*1.25=1696(piercing boost)

Long story short, my mathed out SA damage max (now with piercing bonus!) is 1696. You got 1687. Now were playing ball.

OK same thing but remove Vajra 51 base damage and Fstr (since those get moved to the WS and we cant count it twice)
SA=1320 (dex onry)
WS=887
____________________________________________________

Total if 15% WS damage applies ONLY to WS: 2207 (807+1320)
Total if 15% WS damage applies to WS+ AND SA:2405 (887+(1696*1.15))
Your recorded highest:3031

WTF >_>

K lets try out adding in the inconclusive 25% SA boost byrth was messing with.
15% WS damage(NOT on SA) and 25% SATA boost(applied to WS)=2428 (887*1.25)+1320
15% WS damage(YES on SA) and 25% SATA boost (applied to WS)=2626 (887*1.25)+(1320*1.15)
Your recorded:3031

More WTF >_>

Someone help me out. I have to be overlooking something to be missing 400+ damage. Whats the dealio?

Edited, Jan 10th 2012 5:21pm by Banalaty
K...so only thing i can figure is if you add the weapon damage+fstr into BOTH the SA and WS part of the function. If you do that then including:
15% Mythic WS damage applies to SA when stacked
25% SATA IV enhancement applies to WS when stacked.
25% Piercing
19% Crit damage boost (Trait IV+lokis)
20% Dex boost from Raid+2
Weapon/Fstr gets counted twice

If all that is true, damage works out to ~3000 even give or take flooring and crap. Your number 3031. Thats the only thing i can figure to make the observed fit a model. Am i missing some glaring thing? Did you ahve more crit damage gear? Was WS set severely different than SA set? I dont like things not addign up.

Edited, Jan 10th 2012 5:26pm by Banalaty

Yeah but even including every bonus i know of, it still falls way short of his numbers. I was ~400 damage short of his highest with:

25% Vajra SATA bonus (applied to both SA and WS)
15% Mythic WS bonus (applied to both SA and WS)
25% Piercing (mandys)
20% dex boost (raider gloves)
19% crit damage (14% trait, 5% lokis)

With all that, i still only get 2626 give or take a couple points if i missed flooring something. His are over 3k. Wheres the 400 damage coming from?

My gear:

Main: Vajra (lvl 95)
Off: Thokcha (STR dagger)
Ranged: Raider's Bmrng
Head: Ocelomeh Headpiece
Neck: Love Torque
Body: Loki's Kaftan
Hands: Raider's Armlets +2
Back: Nifty Mantle
Waist: Cuchulain's Belt
Legs: Hecatomb Subligar (no aguments)
Feet: Athos's Boots
Ear1: Pixie Earring
Ear2: Aesir Ear Pendant
Ring1: Thundersoul Ring
Ring2: Rajas Ring

I made sure I wore the same gear for SA, SAws and ws. The high number of 3000+ is probably due I used SAws near 300tp
I should have written down the tp as I did each ws. Sorry about that. And compliments to Banalaty for back tracking the gear I used.

Edited, Jan 11th 2012 5:05pm by Breaze

K bad news then if that was near 300tp. Ftp bumped up to 2.5 places max damage at 3391. Min at 3208. 3031 No longer fits. However if you remove the 15% mythic ws boost from the sa part of the damage, max is 3192. Min 3020. Now your 3031 fits right in. The extra damage was from you extra tp, not the mythic 15% carrying over if I'm reading this right =(