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Urd/Skuld THF+RDM strategyFollow

#1 May 30 2010 at 5:41 PM Rating: Decent
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I'm trying to get glass color for my Verthandi drops for Athame double attack dagger. I asked a RDM friend and went to try out Urd/Skuld, though Urd popped for me twice.

The first time I popped it, I noticed it was missing me alot, even when I switched to haste gear. It was barely hitting me. I had my RDM just sit there to see if I could actually tank this thing, turns out I actually could. So, at 97% HP I asked him to dispel all the junk she's been buffing herself. The first spell he casted on her was Dispel, and it's the only spell, and bam, he got hate I couldn't get it back. She would turn to me, and once he would try to do something else, she would just look at him and hit him. He wasn't prepared to get hit, so he tried to Stoneskin himself but she was on him. I got her back by Accomplice since she had stoneskin on as well. It seems she just loves this spell. I was never able to interrupt any of her spells although I'd often triple on them, which normally would interrupt other mobs spells (I learned this from campaign where triple attack would interrupt tier 3 agas, i sometimes resort to assassin's charge just for that). During the small window I had while she was casting ss, i hit her and got her to 96%. it was so annoying because i wasn't doing enough damage to break her ss fast enough to actually do damage, and my rdm wasn't giving me anything (not even haste) or dispelling it or dotting/enfeebling it because she would turn to him. I finally gave up and decided to flee to jeuno so i could buy food and my RDM would sub NIN to try again.

This time, RDM was feeling safer since he was /NIN with phalanx and ss so he decided to dispel everything as soon as she buffs. Because she would have ss on, again, i wasn't dealing enough damage to take it off and she would just run after him. ultimately, i used accomplice to get her off him, but what he did was that he refreshed himself so she just went and killed him. I fleed to Jeuno. it was so frustrating.

I am wondering if anyone have any tips about this fight. It really doesn't sound all that hard (I mean, she really barely touched me). If I can just push through that last bit of damage.

I do have a PLD with me, but I think a THF could tank this better because when she hits, she hits hard. So avoiding hits is better than taking them imo.
#2 May 30 2010 at 6:38 PM Rating: Good
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Dispel generates a large amount of enmity and if a mage casts dispel in rapid succession their hate is going to be capped fast. As a thief you may not be getting hit much but you won't be dealing enough damage to tank it for long.

EDIT: The others have already listed a few duo strategies for rolanberry fields using the lake. I popped my low manned pixies in batallia downs so we ended up getting extra help. The lake makes a good kiting strategy and I agree with what the others have said. Just make sure you run from trance because some of his tp attacks are pretty dangerous. A red mage should be able to handle kiting urd without any issues and when you end up taking hate just run. Your best sa ws opportunity is when Urd stops to cast. With a kiting strategy it shouldn't be too difficult to take it out. In fact, I actually want to try it myself now. I think I'll see how well I do with a linkshell mate later today.

Edited, May 31st 2010 7:52am by Melphina
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#3 May 30 2010 at 10:07 PM Rating: Good
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The best way to do it would be have your RDM tank it via dispels and nukes and have him run around a tree in rolanberry causing Urd to flip out. You can then follow Urd spamming SA and meleeing when she stops to cast at your leisure, just ensure you run away during trance.

The tree is at J-10, on the southernmost tip, there will be two together, the western-most one will cause Urd to trip up, just run back and forth between it and the shore line for the pond and watch Urd take the long route to try to eat your face. Good luck actually getting an upgrade.


EDIT: It's a confirmed solo/duo strat performing that way, and if you feel bad about that method, just kiting around the pond does just fine too, it's just not as quick. I've duo'd PLD/NIN and BLM/RDM plenty of times doing both, best record for upgrading to a yellow abyssite was 1/7, worst was 1/23, both Verthandi pops dropped 0 eyes. :\

Edited, May 31st 2010 12:09am by ElvaanTHF
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#4 May 30 2010 at 10:53 PM Rating: Default
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....

Yeah ok.

Build Tp.

Pop it.

Let the RDM get hate on purpose via dispel or whatever. Should be fine with just SS/blink

SA/AC/WS

Let the rdm spam whatever spell he wants and lulz as it tries to hit you.
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#5 May 30 2010 at 11:57 PM Rating: Good
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For urd, at least, you can straight-tank it like a normal mob. Rdm keep it debuffed, as you can't get much hate on a level 86+NM with stoneskin / protect on. Urd will 2hr every (iirc) 20% HP lost (trance animation). When you see trance: start running. She will attempt to use 4 TP moves in a row. All can be outrun except the first, which isn't too dangerous. Her second TP move can occasionally bind you. So definitely try not to get hit by that one!

Just keep that strategy in mind until she's dead. Remember you can SAWS during her spells.

Skuld is rougher for thf. I just fought it like a normal mob, no special strategy. Died at 10% remaining to a thundaga III. Run from her 2hr, just like urd. Otherwise it's a normal fight with some luck (that you don't catch multiple -ga 3)
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#6 May 31 2010 at 2:52 AM Rating: Default
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whoa whoa whoa, hold on now. there's ah! my goddess characters in ffxi now!? what's next, you fight tenchi to break the 75 level cap?
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#7 May 31 2010 at 10:27 AM Rating: Good
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I don't know of any Tenchi, but I must kill urd and skuld so that I may summon Verthandi. Then pull out her eyes, give them to an... eye collecting moogle, and upgrade my Scythe of Epicness +1.

Might do dagger later if they improve it.
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#8 May 31 2010 at 4:38 PM Rating: Good
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I've got some PM's about this, so I'll just copypasta for ease.
2 PM's wrote:
PM #1
Rionel wrote:
So I was wondering, since you recently posted about it!

I'm also tryin' to go for the uber Athame dagger via the Verthandi group, though I was wondering about Urd since you mentioned about duo'ing it with THF + RDM (Dualbox'd, but still!)

I have SAM, DNC and RDM.

My sister has SMN WHM.

My friend has COR PUP.

Do you have any suggestions for fighting her? I've yet to get to that point but I figure I might as well get this figured out quickly.

Shamaya wrote:
Hmmm, let's seee.. What advice can I give. Well I just killed it a 12th time. I got really unlucky w/ the color conversion. I only died once because I was just chatting away and being really cocky. If you're not careful things can get tricky.

Since all I know is a melee strat that's what I'll recommend, though I imagine a dot/kite strat would actually work really easily if you wanted to.

For a straight tank strat, I'd go dnc. I don't have any experience Sam tanking, so maybe that'd work too. Or you could Rdm tank. Whichever job you feel most comfortable tanking on basically. I'd have your sister go Whm and sub Nin. There's no need to sub /blm for ES, and I think the safety of /nin will help more than the MP efficiency of /sch. If you were to take a lot of damage at once she could Cure bomb you, but if she got hate, it could rip through her stoneskin in only one hit. And then there would be trouble. But with /nin she could actually safely hold it for quite a bit. If it turns its attention to her, be careful, as it has a move that can aoe sleep. For me, I would just collaborator when it went to a mage. Your jobs don't have that, so for safety if she wants, she can keep a poison potion up just in case.

Keep slow on it. If you're dancer, I'd recommend an evasion build. It's worked well for me. And if you do do that, definitely have your sister try her best to keep blind up. It'll make a definite difference.

At 79 or 80%, it'll use trance. So just be prepared for that. You'll see the animation and its use of the move. Run immediately. Itll probably hit you w/ the first TP move which is harmless. The other TP moves I think have a range of 15'. Just run and it'll catch up to you and try to hit you again. Just keep running out of the range of 15' or 20' and it should say 'no valid targets'. It'll do like Something arrow -> lethe arrow -> Cyclonic Turmoil -> Cyclonic Turmoil.

If it hits you with turmoil, it mutes you. Echo drops won't remove the silence. So if it hits you with that and your evasion set isnt holding you, your sis/friend might need to temporarily kite it.

Hmm. Now that I think of it, it's buffs can be a huge problem. You could have your sister go whm/rdm but that might be a little unsafe. If you are duoing, it could be hard to deal w/ all those buffs.

If you are able to bring your friend and trio, have them not melee the mob. It's just a waste of MP and it'll be more difficult for you to tank. Have them come cor and Ninja+monk roll you probably for evasion and subtle blow, or maybe ninja and hunters or something. They should be able to DD it from afar safely. Have them dispel it as often as they can.

And that's all I can think of. GL /(^^)/


PM #2
Cybaster wrote:
Heya. I read your post about dualboxing Urd with thf and rdm and I wonder if you can help me answering some questions.

I'm also a thief with rdm mule I can dualbox. I've tried Urd twice and failed both times. My main problem is with hate. I can't get enough hate off my rdm and it keeps going after it.

With Urd high defense and stoneskin, it's really hard to damage Urd and takes forever to destroy the stoneskin. And when I do break it, it will immediately recast it, so I have to dispel it, including all of its other buff. That gives too much hate on the rdm and it's pretty much downhill after that. What did you do with it? Did you dispel all of its buff or just brute force its stoneskin with melee and ignore all of its buff?

Here's my idle gear for Urd:
Blau/Sirocco
Octant
Optical Hat
Evasion Torque
Novia Earring
Ethereal Earring
Scorpion Harness
Denali Gloves
Rajas Ring
Sniper Ring +1
Boxer's Mantle
Scouter's Rope
Denali Pants
Dance Shoes

- Should I use X/Blau instead?
- I actually forgot to acid bolt it, is it possible? Or should I use Ungur instead?
- Any reasonable improvement I should get for the fight?
- I forgot if it can dispels food or not, what food should I use?
- When it uses trance, I immediately flee and got lucky when Zephyr Arrow missed me. Wiki says it ignores shadow and bind, do you just erase it quickly?

Thanks in advance (`3`)b

Shamaya wrote:
Hey man. Actually, after fighting Jyestha and Farruca Fly T2 NM's in the Saruta area, I'm tempted to say the Dancer Pixie Urd is actually harder, lol. It's possible that since I'm very well geared it's giving me more of an advantage than I'd expect. The fight can get a bit tricky at times, especially if you do get hit with bind/silence. But I think you can definitely do it.

Starting off with the most easy advice, equip advice. I use raven hose but those have -enmity so you might not want to use them. Instead of Sniper+1 I use bomb queen ring. You might not have that. Other than that my gear is pretty similar. I'd definitely advise changing towards an ungur since you said you have it. Even if you didn't I'd use a bomblet/core. It's not worth your time to mess with bolts. If you had perfect accuracy and proc rate, I'd do it. But I didn't even think it was worth trying based on my melee accuracy and the level of the mob. Blau/Sirocco might be better DPS since you won't be able to get much advantage from X's while straight tanking this. But you might want to use X's instead since it'll feed less TP.

Speaking of less TP, I often use a hybrid evasion/subtle blow set. Things like dragon harness, peiste belt +1, rajas ring, new ebur gear, etc, can really make a difference in the mob's WS output. If you make one of these sets, switch between it and your full evasion set as necessary.

It could also be that I have more dual boxing experience than you. I use two computers so if you're using one computer you might be at a disadvantage.

Is your rdm sub ninja? That is essential. If so, you should be able to hold it effectively for relatively long periods of time on your rdm. If possible, when you composure I'd put up haste, stoneskin, and refresh. I wouldn't even worry with the other buffs. They'll probably be of no consequence and your protect/shell will also get erased, so don't even worry about that.

Was HP any issue for you at all? It was rarely much of an issue for me, but I used gigant and bomb core. If you think you're in danger too often, you might want to go with carbonara which is really good. If not, use pizza or sushi. I actually might just say sushi for this fight, as much of a pizza lover that I am.

As for strategy for the fight, I'd start off with 100tp, assassin's charge, SA, and feint primed. Pop it and have your alt char dia2/3 it to hold it for a second (or have your alt pop it if you can). Then just engage and spam your shark bite macro (or mandalic stab? idk, I use mercy). This should plant a decent amount of hate on you from the start. Have your rdm move about 20' from the pixie, and if you can, rotate the position of your character so that your character is closer than 20' away.

MP management is important for the fight. As you may have found out, it's accuracy isn't that good, so if you need to recover MP, pop a wizard cookie on your alt and rest, and turn your thief's back from the mob so as to not feed it any sudden TP, and hold it. Blind is going to be impt for the fight. I have blind2, but I don't see why blind1 wouldn't be just about as good. Keep slow2 and bind2 on full time. If you don't know if they're up, just throw it on again just to be sure. Make a huge difference.

If hate is a problem regularly, bring your rdm within 10' of your thf and collaborator as soon as its up. Don't use accomplice ever in the fight unless you're at a point where you're sure you're going to wipe. Regular collaborator is invaluable to you.

I'm not sure which of the arrows really do the bind that gos through silence. I do know the arrows missed me regularly. It may be that we both got lucky (I'd have gotten lucky on almost every fight), but as long as you flee away as soon as it trances, you should be fine.

As long as you keep collaborating often you should be able to keep hate off of your mage to the point where dispelling it isnt a problem. You actually want to dispel it very often. Every single time it buffs, even if it's just regen or shell. Again if MP is an issue, rest and hold. If you pull hate, hold hate for a sec and sneak attack the mob to try to get it back. Be careful about meleeing it a lot while your rdm is holding it, because it can do that aoe sleep move. If you want, you can use a poison pot for that, but I didn't bother.

If you're regularly dispelling it it won't have stoneskin up and you'll be dps'ing a lot harder and holding a lot better hate. Regular feint and dia will really improve your DoT and enmity. Oh and on a final note, when it tries to regen or stoneskin, if you have 100TP and sneak attack is up and you're waiting for it to do either of those spells, you can sneak around to its back and get off an SA WS. Otherwise, I'd reserve WS and not use it very often unless you have feint up at the time, ensuring all/most hits land.

That's all I can think of. Try these things and GL!

Cliffnotes:
-Have Rdm sub /nin
-Have Rdm dispel absolutely everything, and keep dia slow and blind up.
-Start the fight with an SA WS for hate, and collaborator often
-If you pop Skuld instead of Urd, I'd recommend just zoning it. Bring powder boots if it makes you feel safer.
-Flee kite whenever it uses Trance
-Try to stack SA+WS as often as possible. You can easily pull it off if you react immediately upon her casting regen or stoneskin. I think I've done it when she was curing before, too, but the window of time seems too small for any consistency.
-When not in a dire situation, try to use only as much evasion as necessary.

Edited, Jun 1st 2010 3:46am by Shamaya
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#9 May 31 2010 at 11:09 PM Rating: Good
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i demand that at least one person who was watching anime before the year 2000 reads this thread and responds to my earlier post.
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#10 Jun 01 2010 at 3:04 AM Rating: Decent
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milich wrote:
whoa whoa whoa, hold on now. there's ah! my goddess characters in ffxi now!? what's next, you fight tenchi to break the 75 level cap?


I'm certain they were referencing the Wyrd sisters from Norse mythology here. (although ah! my goddess is very (very!) loosely based on the Wyrd sisters also)


Verðandi (anglicized as Verthandi)

Urðr (anglicized as either Urd or Urth)





Edited, Jun 1st 2010 6:17am by Lobivopis
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I thought of it first:

http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/forum.html?forum=10&mid=130073657654872218#20
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