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Ninja Equipment Guide III (Update: 10/17/2008)Follow

#77 Aug 06 2008 at 3:29 PM Rating: Good
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VeyronMick, ****** Superhero wrote:
Not at all, I had to work late the last few nights, then spending time with the wife and kid means I don't have time to respond to all posts immediately.

..........

I'll be working on more of them tonight, will take a day or two off after tonight as I haven't actually played FF in 2 weeks now while working on this (although I did get a couple of nights of Lost Odyssey in.)

..........

That earlier comment wasn't meant at you, one particular post came across as very condensing, but you get them in forums from time to time, **** I've done a few myself.


Eesh.. two weeks? If you could use any help, I'd be happy to put in some effort to helping you out. I can probably work out the Haste to DW comparison stuff (and some other things concerning enmity if I can get on to do some testing) and some other stuff I had mentioned. Just drop me a PM and if I don't know it, I'll research it for you (lots of free time until Fall Semester starts). That isn't really fair for you to not play. >_<

Anyway, I'll apologize for thinking you were ignoring my posts (I was going to edit my post this morning, but then I didn't have anything to replace it with! >.>). I didn't know if I had offended you and that's the last thing I want to do to someone who is doing a great job on helping the NIN forum.

On another note, I kind of agree with everyone else on the above haste discussion. 1/20th of a second, while faster, isn't worth the loss of any stats. 20 rounds of attacking to show any sign of improvement isn't going to pay off in most fights and even if it does, you may as well be better off with the 3 attack from the Denali Bonnet. I'm not too familiar with how attack would factor in (I'll have to bug Pahn or look for the damage formula), but 20 rounds of it versus the extra 1% haste.. could make a slight difference. It isn't worth arguing over, but the math may be fun to toy with.
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#78 Aug 06 2008 at 4:08 PM Rating: Excellent
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tbh hauby is overated imo. where by your comparing a nq haub 12.5 acc 12.5 attack to a koga 12acc 16 attack. seems obvious koga is better. yes its true the dex will have a small affect on crits but the 3.5 attk advantage would pretty much outweigh from the various math posts i've read + you would need tons of dex to see a noticable impact on crits.

then to throw in haub+1 15 acc 15 att. and a cost of 2.5 - 3 mill is again a lot of farming time for most ppl and reading all the various maths posts in the forums your only really going to see maybe a 1-1.5% increase in your dot from wearing a haub+1 over koga. in comparison to you ~2% evasion parse. again 2.5 - 3 million gil can be just as hard to get as koga in dynamis and if you find dynamis more fun than farming koga tp and nq haub ws seems a pretty nice choice and potentially saving you 2 or 2.5 million with which you could upgrade a lot of your other equipment choices with.

with a bit of thinking the equips you could buy with that money could give a much bigger boost to your overall dot. at the end of the day you need to think about ya equipment 1 piece wont make or break you and if obtaining x is going to me more fun than obtaining y then and theres minimal difference between them do it lol


I thought I covered why a Haub is actually slightly statistically better despite the very similar ATT/ACC stats. STR and DEX.

fSTR will be there. It's not worth gearing only for STR, but hey, +1-2 damage to both of my Katanas, that's pretty nice. It might take a bit of DEX to see a real difference in crits, but hey, "free" DEX is better than none >.>

Yeah, a +1 is a small difference. The thing to me there is that you're enhancing something that's already successful. A 2% evasion boost on top of the typical 3-7% in merit doesn't make tanking really any different. Edging your ACC%, WS average, etc up just adds to your overall effort. Every little bit helps.
If you're building for evasion, then sure, Koga would be preferable in the slot...but still not as good as some other pieces (Ekidnu's, SH, etc).

The bigger reason is, as I mentioned, a NQ Haub is your benchmark. A 200-250k, level 59 piece that many NINs will have already had since they could wear it.
You can use it on a number of other jobs, in capped events, and for WS. A +1 is a fine investment due to that, but not required.

If you want to TP in Koga, hey, fine, like I said, it's not a big difference. For the purposes of an equipment guide, however, it should be put in perspective.
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#79 Aug 06 2008 at 5:14 PM Rating: Decent
Tried the suggestion on adding a different colour to the stats to see if would improve readability. It does look better IMO, contrast looks good on my monitor if people are still finding it tough I can change it to something else.

Added colour coding stats to the weapons/ammo/ranged section (INT, EVA etc.)
Kept meaning to get around to that one, but fixing mistakes has been the priority so far.

I've changed the wording in most of the stats to make them clearer. I was getting confused myself on some of them.

Added links in the first section to guides that were recommended to help explain them, I'll still need to go through the nin links section and a couple of pages of nin post to see if any other relevant ones come up.

Fixed the mistakes that people pointed out. Updated the "Hikazu Hara-ate" description to mention you need a L75 job and are participating in Salvage.

Picked the best comment I could find about Koga Chainmail and updated it's description.

Updated the description on the L50 and L55 haste belts to

Will do a bit more work on the first section and will add DEX rings next.
#80 Aug 07 2008 at 2:10 PM Rating: Good
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Please consider adding a comment for fudo & senji that the +% crit only adds to that hand's weapon.

Consider commenting on dusk gloves+1, since you're including speed belt and AV drops.
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#81 Aug 08 2008 at 2:53 AM Rating: Decent
tordall wrote:
Please consider adding a comment for fudo & senji that the +% crit only adds to that hand's weapon.


Added, that's very useful to know. I had assumed from reading the stats the it would apply to both weapons.


tordall wrote:

Consider commenting on dusk gloves+1, since you're including speed belt and AV drops.


I've added them in now.

While they are excellent, I personally wouldn't drop between 25m-40m on them.
I could kit out a lot of my jobs for that for more benefit.

EDIT: Also added a link to some excellent testing done in the thf forums on Evasion in the first post under the Evasion section. It's an excellent read.

Edited, Aug 8th 2008 11:31am by VeyronMick
#82 Aug 08 2008 at 11:41 AM Rating: Good
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Man.. no more complaints? I guess this is about ready to be stickied if nobody has anything else to add. I'll give it a look over and edit my post in a bit, but I don't think there was anything else I wanted to mention.
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#83 Aug 08 2008 at 1:11 PM Rating: Good
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the very (VERY) slight extra damage from sais aren't worth losing the def down from yoto+1. the +1 is fine though.

defenSe is spelled with an S, not a C =x

again, earth staff should also be mentioned for it's -20% phys dmg for endgame tanking.

Quote:
This staff can be used to give a bonus to the elemental magic X. Very useful when tanking with the elemental Ni wheel.


if you must leave it worded like that (instead of DDing with the ele wheel), then fine, but i hate you for it >:O

finally, many of the throwing items (bomb core, fire bomblet, tiphia sting, etc) are no longer throwable, and therefore do not have any D/delay
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#84 Aug 09 2008 at 3:07 AM Rating: Excellent
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ThePsychoticOne wrote:
defenSe is spelled with an S, not a C =x


Not in England! :P
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#85 Aug 09 2008 at 3:13 AM Rating: Good
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MithraDooom wrote:
ThePsychoticOne wrote:
defenSe is spelled with an S, not a C =x


Not in England! :P


oh?

well, that goes to show how americans don't know/care about the rest of the world.
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#86 Aug 09 2008 at 3:25 PM Rating: Decent
ThePsychoticOne wrote:
the very (VERY) slight extra damage from sais aren't worth losing the def down from yoto+1. the +1 is fine though.


Changed the comment on Sai to reflect this.


ThePsychoticOne wrote:

defenSe is spelled with an S, not a C =x


We spell the same as the brits, I'm not changing that one. Smiley: wink2


ThePsychoticOne wrote:

again, earth staff should also be mentioned for it's -20% phys dmg for endgame tanking.

if you must leave it worded like that (instead of DDing with the ele wheel), then fine, but i hate you for it >:O


I had changed the staves section to incorporate this already, for some reason it wasn't updated in the post, had to redo it. Alla does this from time to time.


ThePsychoticOne wrote:

finally, many of the throwing items (bomb core, fire bomblet, tiphia sting, etc) are no longer throw-able, and therefore do not have any D/delay


Updated that section to add that info.
#87 Aug 20 2008 at 8:31 AM Rating: Decent
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Level 75 - Koga Tekko (RareEx)(AF2) - [HST] [DD]
Def: 18 Ninja Tool Expertise (Nighttime: STR: 12 Haste: 4%)
Haste is only active at night as well. The only always active trait is save on tools.

These are to be used fulltime at night. It would be a good idea to make a night macro set with these and other items like vampire/fenrir's earring or koga kyahan. Ninja tool expertise works about 25-33% of the time.

You're missing AF+1 body. Thunder ring should be mentioned. Flame rings aren't "very expensive". Shadow ring, shadow mantle, bloodbead ring missing. It should be mentioned that shura legs aren't to be used once you attain byakkos (or any leg piece for that matter).
#88 Aug 20 2008 at 10:05 AM Rating: Decent
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The +40 hp on koga legs is useful for a CB build or another max HP application.
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#89 Aug 20 2008 at 10:33 AM Rating: Decent
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Overburn wrote:
Quote:

Quote:
Level 39 - Fuma Kyahan
May only be beneficial for Utseumi recast, much more useful later on.

even with no other haste gear, these are still best dd feet.



Not really, with only 3% haste you're not going to be cutting down much of your actual swing timers to the point where it adds little to no actual DoT.


"To no" actual DOT? 3% haste will always increase your DOT. Is it huge? No, but neither is 4 attack or 3 dex or whatever...actually much bigger than those.

Seriously, what else does anyone recommend? The only thing I can see being comparable if you have no haste whatsoever would be Pahluwan or Denali feet.

Also OP, Kitsutsuki is a good Katana you overlooked.

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#90 Aug 22 2008 at 1:53 PM Rating: Good
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This is a nice guide. Great job.

There are several places you suggest swapping a piece of enmity gear in for Provoke. There are other reasons to swap in enmity gear such as warcry, elemental & enfeebling ninjutsu, and black magic spells and job abailities for /drk.

Some gear is great to swap in with Utsusemi but I didn't see that mentioned. I prefer to only swap slots which won't blink me so for example:
Evasion Torque
Swift Belt (haste) Scouter's rope (evasion)
Boxer's Mantle
Evasion Earring
Ethereal Earring
Wivre Ring x2 (I personally don't bother to use these to save inventory space)
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#91 Aug 23 2008 at 4:19 PM Rating: Decent
Added...
------------
Armour: AF+1 body, Thunder ring, Bloodbead ring
Weapons: Kitsutsuki
Comments: Added new section in the first post to recommend creating a specific build for night times. Also added section on Utsu gear swaps to the first post.


Updated comments on...
-------------------------------
Armour: Koga legs, Shura legs, Koga Tekko
Comments: Added situations that Enmity macro pieces should be used to the Enmity section in the first post. Cleaned up armour descriptions to mention using enmity swaps, rather then just for Provoke macros.


Thanks for peoples comments on these


fuzzyman wrote:
You're missing Shadow ring, shadow mantle


To be honest I've never seen anyone wearing these.
The proc rates are supposed to be bad to the point that there are better alternatives.
Can you elaborate why and when you would consider these.?

Edited, Aug 23rd 2008 8:51pm by VeyronMick
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#92 Aug 23 2008 at 7:09 PM Rating: Decent
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VeyronMick, ****** Superhero wrote:

fuzzyman wrote:
You're missing Shadow ring, shadow mantle


To be honest I've never seen anyone wearing these.
The proc rates are supposed to be bad to the point that there are better alternatives.
Can you elaborate why and when you would consider these.?


the ring has a high proc rate (25% iirc? not sure exactly). the mantle isn't great (5% proc rate iirc?). mantle has it's uses, like when you don't need the extra enmity from cerb/hbm, or on darksday for vit+20.
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#93 Aug 23 2008 at 9:32 PM Rating: Decent
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Shadow ring goes without saying. On any HNM with magical aoe that byapasses utsusemi, it would be a good idea to full time it. Shadow mantle is the best shadows down piece. Even if it's only 5-10% proc rate, you can consider it as 5-10% -dmg. Because over time, that's what it averages to. Both very useful pieces for endgame tanking.
#94 Oct 14 2008 at 8:39 PM Rating: Decent
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It's a very good guide, I have only 1 minor correction to add. You got the required Assault rank for the Perdu Blade incorrect. Should say Second Lieutenant, not Chief Sergeant
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#95 Oct 17 2008 at 4:39 AM Rating: Decent
Aluus wrote:
It's a very good guide, I have only 1 minor correction to add. You got the required Assault rank for the Perdu Blade incorrect. Should say Second Lieutenant, not Chief Sergeant


Hmm, I was already reminded of that but missed updating it.
Thanks for the reminder.

Edited, Oct 17th 2008 8:34am by VeyronMick
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#96 Nov 19 2008 at 12:43 AM Rating: Decent
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Level 73 - Shura Haidate (RareEx) - [DD]
Def: 30 HP: -35 STR: 5 Accuracy: 7
These are an excellent for both TP and WS. If you have Byakko's, these can be used in WS macro if you badly need the accuracy.


The 15dex on byakko's haidate gives you 7acc. Both pieces are equal accuracy wise. It's an argument of 5str, raising fSTR, or 15dex, raising crit %.

For WS, if you're using Blade: Jin, STR and DEX mods are equal. 15dex > 5 str. Seeing that it is crit based, I'd be hard pressed to use shura over byakko's.

For TP, the 5% haste puts byakko's over the top.

I think you should replace your comment with "These are excellent for both TP and WS, until Byakko's Haidate."

I'm of the mind that shura haidate should be left for the monks when they're using hundred fists.

Edited, Nov 19th 2008 1:40am by Renowaikk
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#97 Nov 21 2008 at 1:35 PM Rating: Decent
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DEF:29 DEX+5 VIT+5
Lv.69 MNK/NIN/SAM

worth a mention imo.
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#98 Jan 15 2009 at 4:21 PM Rating: Decent
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Been awhile since anyone posted in this but I thought I`d put in a recommendation (assuming no one has already made it) for lower level NINs. If they have it, a Dash Sash is a really good choice for a belt slot piece early in level. An enmity boost is really nice when there is nothing else to fit in that area that`s worthwhile until like the 40s.
#99 Jun 29 2009 at 2:48 PM Rating: Decent
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Lots of good information and discussion here, thanks for putting this together.
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