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#27 Apr 17 2011 at 6:19 PM Rating: Decent
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wow... just.. wow.

Unfortunately I didn't have a point to make becasue my question was answered. I sensed a tone in his reponce (directed at me which Im not going to pick apart) so I replied with humor. I guess certain ppl took it the wrong way. Did I say anything insulting other than babble? I don't think it is I who is **** hurt. Grow a pair guys, this is the Interent.

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And rate bombing us doesn't help prove your point either Sand. Grow up.


/sigh, so much hypocracy in that statement its untrue.
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#28 Apr 17 2011 at 6:31 PM Rating: Decent
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So, your question was answered, and your way of saying thank you is to insult the person who decided to answer for you?

As for the 'tone' being 'directed at you,' again, I highly suggest rereading what you so condescendingly wrote off as babble. I gave several hypotheticals as to why one would use /DNC, and disproved each. Not once did I accuse, or even insinuate, that any of them applied to you. If you choose to believe so, that's your business, but do not mistake interpretation as intent. It only makes you look stupid.
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#29 Apr 17 2011 at 9:23 PM Rating: Good
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Sandmasterr wrote:
I sensed a tone in his reponce (directed at me which Im not going to pick apart) so I replied with humor.

There's the issue. Your response wasn't really that funny.
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#30 Apr 18 2011 at 3:59 AM Rating: Decent
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Oh well, its over, time to move on.
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#31 Apr 26 2011 at 5:25 AM Rating: Excellent
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Firstly, just wanted to appologise to Lyltiao for my initial responces, when I re-read the thread I couldn't find anything I should of taken the wrong way.

Secondly, the methods given for solo-ing these NM's is very good information. Until this week, I'd never fought the 3 lesser Gig's, and briareus I just stood there for win/atma just before scar's came out. I obviously read over the NM's on wiki first, but for my first atempt I went /DNC for all 4 NM's to get to know them. Your on the money too when you say its not needed, and it took me 7 NM kills to make a Briareus popset. The second and 3rd sets I made from 4 and 5 nm kills.

Briareus was many times easier than I expected, I've killed him 3 times now and have still only seen 1x 1111 Mercurial strike. On my 2nd and 3rd kills /THF I had to turn a couple of times to let my HP replenish from atma. Using DD gear with my evasion comming from /thf traits, Yonin, 1x Sekka+2, Ballerines my eva rate seemed capped, I couldn't really notice a difference when I put Kuryami up. I Used full Iga set with the accesories and 2/5 +2's. Atma's for all were Mounted Champion, RR, GH. 4/50 on helms lmao. Anyway, your posts have given me something to occupy myself with over the next couple of months so thank you ^
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#32 Apr 26 2011 at 1:42 PM Rating: Good
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Yeah, I don't even switch out of TP gear for Briareus; his accuracy is flat-out terrible.

Have been taking a break from farming Kannagi pops to HQ my NIN some more (want to get body +1 to make Pantagruel more straightforward, just got +2 hat last night), and ended up helping my brother skill up his shiny new 90 WAR so we can Fell Cleave for KIs. Hopefully it will allow me to spam Bri more.

Anyone have experience with cleaving for Bri's KIs (and how common they are compared to Cara's)?
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#33 Apr 27 2011 at 4:24 AM Rating: Good
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Well, I got overconfident earlier. I hada few drinks, raised the music volume, popped briareus, and forgot to run at first sign of Mercurial strike. It hit for 1111 then 1.3K ground strike and dead. Just like that :(

Live n learn I guess.
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#34 Apr 27 2011 at 8:00 AM Rating: Decent
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In Visions zones, while amberfarming KIs can be a good supplement for building sets for larger groups, I wouldn't rely on it fully to get you your sets, due to the huge variety of KIs that can drop (the smaller your group is, the more likely you are going to end up with duplicate KIs that you can't take, which just translates to wasted effort).

It becomes slightly more feasible in Scars zones (although generally you cannot obtain a NM's entire KI set solely from gold boxes in Scars zones) and becomes very feasible in Heroes zones (each zone only has 2 boxed KIs and each one of them alone is good for a NM pop... needless to say, this only applies if the mob you need is popped by one of these items)
#35 May 04 2011 at 10:47 PM Rating: Good
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Well, I just finished the 80 trial. Some thoughts for those just starting out:

- NIN/PLD and NIN/WAR work decently, but Grandgousier is basically an enormous ******* who hates me, and whose family I will hunt down some day. With NIN/DRK you lose staff procs, but as long as you're careful to stun Roars, you can take all 3 NMs to town quickly solo, with procs. I don't have a Pitchfork or that would be an additional consideration, and a point against /DRK.

- Getting as many people to help as you can, even if they are just warm bodies to hold KIs and mostly AFK, is a huge speed boost. The days I was solo, I struggled to get 6 Helms in an evening, but the days I had 4 friends come out I'd knock out 12-16 a run easily, if not more.

- This thing is HUGE! Like, the size of a decently-big sword. Crazy.
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#36 May 06 2011 at 3:03 AM Rating: Good
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Yeah i've been doing it all without extra bodies, mainly because I don't have them but i'd love to have a 90 Thf I could dual box for pop items, Because of this i've been doing it all /thf, on sylph all 3 NM's are very regualr camped, and I've found other groups of any size are happy to proc for you if you don't have it, I've made a few friends doing it so far and as long as your respectful of others everyones happy. I've just been spending some evenings in the zone, capping azure so I can farm TE/cruor and temps on while farming pops. On Bria if after taking a large dmg without a med to heal it and others waiting i'll just do a /s to ppl waiting asking to throw a cure & haste to speed the process up. All in all i'm having great fun doing it. Bria can be fairly unpredicable, some fights the largest Merc strike is 444-555, others he'll just spam the high numbers.

I'm nearly halfway there and wondering now if Sobek is solo-able with death resist atma/screen? Otherwise i'll have to call on a couple of friends everytime I get a pop or just farm the whole thing with them.
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#37 May 09 2011 at 7:27 PM Rating: Decent
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I'm nearly halfway there and wondering now if Sobek is solo-able with death resist atma/screen? Otherwise i'll have to call on a couple of friends everytime I get a pop or just farm the whole thing with them.


I hear Resist Death atmas do help with it, but AFAIK Doom Screen isn't gonna do a thing for you, since... it's not doom that Sobek hits you with >_> Not to mention the fact that screen duration (2 minutes) isn't nearly long enough anyway.

Personally, given the nature of Gukumatz camp nowadays (read: a royal ******* pain in the ***, at least on my server), I wouldn't want to risk any Sobek pop like that by trying to solo it unless you have a way of stopping Tyrant Tusk reliably.
#38 May 09 2011 at 7:58 PM Rating: Good
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Sandmasterr wrote:
I'm nearly halfway there and wondering now if Sobek is solo-able with death resist atma/screen? Otherwise i'll have to call on a couple of friends everytime I get a pop or just farm the whole thing with them.


I did my Kannagi Briareus and Sobek stages in five days (I spammed the living sh*t out of both of them). I had a Whm and Blm to tribox with - against Sobek I was able to round together a couple of completely random people. Here's what i can tell you about him:

- One time I got bored since I had 3/3 KI's on all three characters and decided to try him by myself (Nin, Whm, Blm). If you have Mijin and a rejuvinator, there no reason you can't Nin+Whm it. In my 30 or so sobeks, only one spammed me with three killshot-tusks (using no death resistance atmas).
- I highly doubt you'll be able to solo him, even if you could get around his fairly potent -agas there's always a chance he'll hit you with paralyga and get in too much damage. A big problem with mobs like this that have death/doom moves is that the longer you keep the battle going the higher chance there is that you'll get killshotted. So even if you could permanently hold your own in an eva/mdb set, there's something to just getting a Whm and spamming it with a DD set.
- Sobek drops some pretty popular +2 pieces (Nin, War, Blm, Blu leg +2's). The two people I picked up to offtank this with I had absolutely no experience with and they're now good friends. As mentioned in an earlier post, it's also nice to have other people to claim Guku with.

tl;dr: Just cut yourself out of the lotting pool and it shouldn't be hard to find other people. If you can leadoff a "session" with a popset you farmed yourself, that never hurts.

Edited, May 9th 2011 10:00pm by Msthief87
#39 May 10 2011 at 9:32 AM Rating: Decent
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Not to mention TH2 helps with pop item drops from NQ Gigas as well as increasing Briareus's Helm yield.

Treasure Hunter affects the drop rate of Empyrean trial weapon items?

Edited, May 10th 2011 11:35am by xxPhyrexx
#40 May 10 2011 at 12:12 PM Rating: Good
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xxPhyrexx wrote:
Treasure Hunter affects the drop rate of Empyrean trial weapon items?
Well 1st item is 100% drop, the 2nd isn't and is affected by Treasure Hunter which is why it's nice to have a THF come along when you can lol
#41 May 10 2011 at 1:11 PM Rating: Good
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Another note (currently 13/50 Skins, with 4 KI sets waiting to be popped), I noticed that I was getting 1-shotted by Tyrant Tusk every time Sobek used it, and checked my equip for -Dark Resist. After taking off my PCC (-10 Dark), so I had 0 Dark resist, I only got 1-shotted one more time for the duration of the rest of the night. Not rock-solid statistical evidence, but...something to consider.

Still, I'm kind of upset that I wasn't able to finish off my Skins before the merge to Carbuncle. Pre-merge, I only had to compete against a NIN+WHM twoboxer, who was quite easy to outclaim. On Carbuncle, apparently the whole of Japan lives in Misareaux Coast, with settlements set up at Heqet and Gukumatz.
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#42 May 11 2011 at 5:00 AM Rating: Decent
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xxPhyrexx wrote:
Treasure Hunter affects the drop rate of Empyrean trial weapon items?


(Anecdotal evidence) - No proc blue/yellow/red helps with getting that second item. Only TH and if you have some level of TH2 (even subbed) I was getting about a 75% if not higher drop rate of 2 items on Briareus, Sobek, and Apademak. I disagree with someone who said that it's 50% all around, if you look at ANY group doing this stuff that knows what they're doing (even lowmans) - they always have some form of TH. Admittedly, I may be wrong (although everything I have done makes me believe I'm not) - why risk something this important unless you're soloing it? The possible benefits outweigh the problem with a mage being /thf in almost every situation.
#43 May 11 2011 at 5:03 AM Rating: Decent
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Aliekber wrote:
Another note (currently 13/50 Skins, with 4 KI sets waiting to be popped), I noticed that I was getting 1-shotted by Tyrant Tusk every time Sobek used it, and checked my equip for -Dark Resist. After taking off my PCC (-10 Dark), so I had 0 Dark resist, I only got 1-shotted one more time for the duration of the rest of the night. Not rock-solid statistical evidence, but...something to consider.


I would say I got death'd about 15% of the time without any resist death stuff up, so I'm not sure what "every time" means but in one of my fights I was death'd twice then in the next one I got death'd. Three in a row was my max for the Sobek stage. If you want to do some testing with sniper's rings and maybe a dark carol bard, I'd be interested to see what you find.
#44 May 11 2011 at 7:00 AM Rating: Decent
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I was getting about a 75% if not higher drop rate of 2 items on Briareus, Sobek, and Apademak.


Gotten similar results with no TH. Also gotten <50% on runs with TH. /shrug

All in all, I'd say it balanced out to around 50% for me, counting all runs together (both with and without TH) so that seemed like a safe figure to go by.

If you wanna bring TH and it isn't a hassle, more power to you, but IMO it shouldn't determine whether or not you bother to go farming empy items one day. People aren't bringing TH to these because they know for a fact that it helps with drops; they're bringing it because it couldn't hurt.
#45 May 11 2011 at 11:29 AM Rating: Decent
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People aren't bringing TH to these because they know for a fact that it helps with drops; they're bringing it because it couldn't hurt.

Excellent point.


Quote:
I was getting about a 75% if not higher drop rate of 2 items on Briareus, Sobek, and Apademak

Inconclusive evidence at best. Unless you have evidence that shows you got a lower drop rate without TH and a large enough sample size for both (with TH and without), then all you have is your opinion and belief.
I could just as easily proc blue, yellow, or red and get a 75% drop rate and say that proccing blue/yellow/red increases drop rate. Would you believe me just as much as you believe in your TH theory?

When I asked the question, I was hoping for some REAL evidence one way or the other. I'm not looking for an answer of "Oh I believe it because it's worked for me"
#46 May 11 2011 at 1:45 PM Rating: Good
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I bring TH because I bribe people into helping me with +2 items, and TH definitely helps with those.
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#47 May 11 2011 at 2:45 PM Rating: Default
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xxPhyrexx wrote:
When I asked the question, I was hoping for some REAL evidence one way or the other. I'm not looking for an answer of "Oh I believe it because it's worked for me"


I had a paragraph I wrote in anger, I decided to go a different direction.

Quote:
(Anecdotal evidence)
Anecdotal: based on personal observation, case study reports, or random investigations rather than systematic scientific evaluation: anecdotal evidence. (stolen from dictionary.com)

Quote:
Admittedly, I may be wrong
Refer to anecdotal.

I have no idea why you sniped at me trying to get the ball rolling on your question, especially when you stated nothing about wanting a huge case study. That's incredibly bad form. I expected a handful of people to just say that it matters and that would be good enough, as far as I know nobody's actually tracked a thousand or however many you would need to get around the variance and have a margin of error small enough.
#48 May 11 2011 at 3:03 PM Rating: Good
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I should probably clarify on the 'bribe' statement. The same people who helped with my 80 are now helping with my 85, and I'm glad that I'm able to help them get something in return for this trial, as opposed to the last one.
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#49 May 11 2011 at 6:42 PM Rating: Good
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xxPhyrexx wrote:
When I asked the question, I was hoping for some REAL evidence one way or the other. I'm not looking for an answer of "Oh I believe it because it's worked for me"

Then your post was a waste of everyone's time. You're never going to find "real" evidence regarding drop rates and the effects of TH, especially on something as time consuming as farming for Bri Helms/Sobek Skins/etc.
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#50 May 13 2011 at 2:58 PM Rating: Good
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Farming Bria, my first drop was 1x helm and was /dnc.

Ive done 11 since that /THF, I've had all 2x drops except for one which was for a friend I was showing how to solo him on his pop, 1 single myself the rest always doubles. Thats obviously just personal experiance (so far).

Cara for example for example has been a pain for my group literally being 50/50 whether he drops his second gem and thats with TH 7-9 on him. I reckon all the emph weapon drop mobs have differed drop rates, as Ulth for example seems to drop 2x most the time w/o and TH.
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#51 May 22 2011 at 7:50 PM Rating: Good
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Then your post was a waste of everyone's time. You're never going to find "real" evidence regarding drop rates and the effects of TH, especially on something as time consuming as farming for Bri Helms/Sobek Skins/etc.

Your statement is wrong. Evidence would be any information to prove or disprove the benefit of TH on Empyrean weapon drop items. What I meant by "real" was more evidence than just one person's testimony on the matter with eyeballed suppositions.
"I was getting about 75% or higher drop rate" is useless information unless it is a conclusion that is prefaced with data. It shows that he didn't collect any data so he just *FEELS* that he got that kind of drop rate, when in actuality, without REAL EVIDENCE he may very well have got a 50% drop rate and just not realized it.

Now, if you think that it's a waste of time to ASK if there is information to support TH benefiting the 2nd item's drop rate, then that's your opinion, and a terrible opinion at that. Asking if there is information to be found is rarely a waste of time for those interested.

As for the last part of your reply, the evidence does not apply to just ninja trials. It's very safe to assume that the drop rate is consistent for EVERY empyrean weapon trial which are constantly being farmed every day. I think it would be very possible that out of the thousands of empyrean weapons being farmed, perhaps a few people actually wrote down their drop rates with TH and perhaps a few others wrote down their drop rates without TH. If that information were to be accumulated together, we would be able to see the effects (if any) of treasure hunter on the non-100% empyrean weapon drop items.

Quote:
I reckon all the emph weapon drop mobs have differed drop rates, as Ulth for example seems to drop 2x most the time w/o and TH.

Of course if this is true, we're looking at a completely different ball game, lol.

Quote:
I have no idea why you sniped at me trying to get the ball rolling on your question, especially when you stated nothing about wanting a huge case study. That's incredibly bad form.

If you consider my reply a "snipe" then I will apologize for that, but I suggest you re-read it without the emotion and see if you are still offended. If you will notice, I only responded to one statement you made, and it was the statement where you gave "inconclusive evidence" to support your claim. If I were to snipe, I could have said something like "your response was as helpful as a torn condom" but I'm not interested in offending anyone for the sake of offending. If you are being overly-sensitive then there is nothing I can do, but again, my apologies if I seemed to carry a tone of any sort.
As I stated, I was "hoping" which means I didn't ask for the evidence, but, as is the case with MANY forum responses, a person may reply with a link to another forum post or a different website where data has been gathered to show the answer to their question.

As for my personal experience, the only data that I can remember off the top of my head is that I recently killed Chloris 6 times with TH8-10 on it each time. 3 times he dropped 1 bud. 3 times he dropped 2. This very small sample size leads me to believe that treasure hunter has no affect on that 2nd item's drop rate and that it is consistently 50%. Again, this sample is EXTREMELY small and pretty useless by itself.

Now if treasure hunter DOES benefit the drop rate, but that benefit is very small, then we will most likely never accumulate enough data to see if the benefit even exists (and if it was that small, it wouldn't even be worth it to wait for a thief or sub thief anyway). However, if the TH benefit increases the drop rate from 50% to 75%... it wouldn't take a very large sample size to see a 25% increase in drop rate.
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