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Rindomaru augmentsFollow

#1 Jul 23 2009 at 7:54 PM Rating: Decent
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I'm surprised this hasn't popped up yet. But what do you guys think about a G.Kat with WS dmg 3%, Acc+ and Store TP+9 with a base damage of 77 and delay 450. Or similar augments like that? I'm about to go do the fight now and post in my augments.
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#2 Jul 23 2009 at 8:04 PM Rating: Good
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i just did the fight...

store tp +14
acc +3
evasion +1
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#3 Jul 23 2009 at 8:44 PM Rating: Decent
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I'm surprised this hasn't popped up yet.


Only it has...
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#4 Jul 23 2009 at 9:37 PM Rating: Decent
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Was wondering what you guys thought about this replacing my Hagun? I'd like to sell my Hagun and get a Hauby+1. If I can get at least StoreTP+4 I'd maintain a 6-hit build. I def would like acc+4/5 WS DMG+%3/4 and store TP+10~.
#5 Jul 23 2009 at 9:43 PM Rating: Decent
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so its safe to assume a store tp +15 weapon finally exist.... now about that ws dmg% thing 4 is the max or will SE give us a 5 or 6?
#6 Jul 24 2009 at 12:11 AM Rating: Good
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SamuraiMaster wrote:
Was wondering what you guys thought about this replacing my Hagun? I'd like to sell my Hagun and get a Hauby+1. If I can get at least StoreTP+4 I'd maintain a 6-hit build. I def would like acc+4/5 WS DMG+%3/4 and store TP+10~.


that + haub+1 is a downgrade from hagun + haub. hagun WSs 20% harder than rindomaru before you include the 3%~ WS damage augment. get 6-hit from sTP grip or usu boots.

in the future: "can i sell my hagun and use [insert GK that isn't amano] without taking a hit to my damage?" answer: no.

"lol what about futsuno (i know you can't get it but it's hot lol)?"

still no. if you get a futsuno and neither you nor your ls sell it, you either have too much gil or you're a fucking idiot.
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#7 Jul 24 2009 at 2:07 AM Rating: Decent
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Well I just got acc +5 , Store TP +16 and Adt effect: Stun +8 on mine lol fun stuff.
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#8 Jul 24 2009 at 6:29 AM Rating: Excellent
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that + haub+1 is a downgrade from hagun + haub. hagun WSs 20% harder than rindomaru before you include the 3%~ WS damage augment. get 6-hit from sTP grip or usu boots.

in the future: "can i sell my hagun and use [insert GK that isn't amano] without taking a hit to my damage?" answer: no.

"lol what about futsuno (i know you can't get it but it's hot lol)?"

still no. if you get a futsuno and neither you nor your ls sell it, you either have too much gil or you're a **** idiot.


Would this augmented GK be worth it if it was replacing Onimaru or would the argument against it still apply there as well?
#9 Jul 24 2009 at 8:55 AM Rating: Excellent
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DietSoda wrote:
Quote:
that + haub+1 is a downgrade from hagun + haub. hagun WSs 20% harder than rindomaru before you include the 3%~ WS damage augment. get 6-hit from sTP grip or usu boots.

in the future: "can i sell my hagun and use [insert GK that isn't amano] without taking a hit to my damage?" answer: no.

"lol what about futsuno (i know you can't get it but it's hot lol)?"

still no. if you get a futsuno and neither you nor your ls sell it, you either have too much gil or you're a @#%^ing idiot.


Would this augmented GK be worth it if it was replacing Onimaru or would the argument against it still apply there as well?

Quick napkin-esque math has the Rindomaru drawing even with Onimaru (in terms of WS damage only) with +4% wsdmg augment. However, the latent acc/attack/base damage bonuses will improve your DoT while TPing, which leaves Onimaru as King of the Hill among the reasonably obtainable not-Hagun GKTs.
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#10 Jul 24 2009 at 9:03 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Quick napkin-esque math has the Rindomaru drawing even with Onimaru (in terms of WS damage only) with +4% wsdmg augment. However, the latent acc/attack/base damage bonuses will improve your DoT while TPing, which leaves Onimaru as King of the Hill among the reasonably obtainable not-Hagun GKTs.


Not going to disagree completely... but if your Store TP build does not include Usukane, you may be better off switching to Rindomaru if it means you can TP in Dusk/Fuma and not jack around with Hachiman.

Also, Stun +8 is hawt...
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#11 Jul 24 2009 at 10:29 AM Rating: Excellent
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Lothiriel wrote:
Quote:
Quick napkin-esque math has the Rindomaru drawing even with Onimaru (in terms of WS damage only) with +4% wsdmg augment. However, the latent acc/attack/base damage bonuses will improve your DoT while TPing, which leaves Onimaru as King of the Hill among the reasonably obtainable not-Hagun GKTs.


Not going to disagree completely... but if your Store TP build does not include Usukane, you may be better off switching to Rindomaru if it means you can TP in Dusk/Fuma and not jack around with Hachiman.

Also, Stun +8 is hawt...


again, store TP grip.

though, if stun+8 means "stun 8% of the time" it could be mildly useful for SAM/DNC soloing i think. i'd not usually want to /DNC with anything but soboro, but if the stun is reliable, it could have a place somewhere.
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#12 Jul 28 2009 at 12:05 PM Rating: Good
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Because this post should have been on this forum


*hates not having regular access to the net right now*
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#13 Jul 29 2009 at 7:10 AM Rating: Good
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milich wrote:
Lothiriel wrote:
Quote:
Quick napkin-esque math has the Rindomaru drawing even with Onimaru (in terms of WS damage only) with +4% wsdmg augment. However, the latent acc/attack/base damage bonuses will improve your DoT while TPing, which leaves Onimaru as King of the Hill among the reasonably obtainable not-Hagun GKTs.


Not going to disagree completely... but if your Store TP build does not include Usukane, you may be better off switching to Rindomaru if it means you can TP in Dusk/Fuma and not jack around with Hachiman.

Also, Stun +8 is hawt...


again, store TP grip.

though, if stun+8 means "stun 8% of the time" it could be mildly useful for SAM/DNC soloing i think. i'd not usually want to /DNC with anything but soboro, but if the stun is reliable, it could have a place somewhere.
Wouldn't platinum grip, and Soboros (basically) avg of 2 hits per round give you just as much stun? Personally I can't stand /dnc without Soboro, for situations where you need /dnc that is.
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#14 Jul 29 2009 at 8:50 AM Rating: Good
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Arucaurd wrote:
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A 5-hit build withouth the tp bonus is inferior to a 6-hit with the hagun bonus. It doesnt trump hagun.


Depends, the number of WSs vs the potency of the WSs. Assuming 150STR and a pDIF of 2.0 to make things easy to follow.

Hagun:
(75 + 16 + 92)1.975 * 2 * 1.19 = 859

Rindomaru (Enough STP to get 5hit, 5% WS damage, and 3-5ACC):
(77 + 16 + 92)1.6625 * 2 * 1.19 = 730

Thats ~17% more WS damage from Hagun on a per WS basis, before counting a 5% WS damage bonus as I'm not sure if it would be a +0.05 to fTP or a % bonus like overwhelm. The difference would be 752 damage if it's a fTP bonus vs 761 damage if it's a % stacked with Overwhelm.

Over the course of 1000 swings, assuming 100% ACC to make things easier, Rindo will be able to WS 250 times, while Hagun will WS 200 times.

That totals as 171,800 WS damage Hagun, 182,500 WS damage Rindomaru, again before considering Rindomaru's WS damage bonus. Rindo also looks to be better for tping, with 2 base damage and a chance for ACC+ over Hagun.


The only way Hagun can beat out a dream Rindomaru would be if the sacrifices to get a 5 hit with Rindo were so great they negated the advantages.

You need 74 STP with a 450 delay GKT to get a 5hit.

25 Trait.
10 Merit
16 Rindo
7 Usu feet
6 Usu Body
5 Rajas
1 Brutal
4 Rose Strap.

74 Total.

The downside is that this gear needs to be full timed, so you lose a couple STR on WSs.

I'm sure there's some little things I left out, like the differences in optimal tping gear for both sets, the STR difference in WSs, etc., but I'm not a SAM so @#%^ it.

Rindo looks like good competition for Hagun to me.


Quote:
30 extra damage per 1000 on WS will not compensate for the extra stats and lower delay on an ebow.


Again I'm not a RNG, but if Fay Gendawa's higher delay lets it WS one shot sooner, wouldn't it be the same as Naglering, which despite higher delay trumps other GS with higher dps because of its 6hit build?

Disregarding the delay for now since we don't yet know exactly how high the -delay on the augments can go, and I don't know sh*t about Xhit builds for RNGs, Assuming one of the 3 augment slots is taken by -delay, it comes down to 2STR and 1 base dmg vs 4atk, 2acc, and 3 AGI, (from know augments) which is questionable and depends on what you're fighting. Fay Gendawa also has a higher weapon rank if that means anything.

Edited, Jul 27th 2009 12:24am by Arucaurd


This is the post that went wrong in the DRK forums.... lets play around, shall we?

This is the build you propose for TP:
http://ffxigear.com/?ref=16898

This is WS
http://ffxigear.com/?ref=16896


Against the "Standard" Hagun Setup:
TP:
http://ffxigear.com/?ref=16899

WS
http://ffxigear.com/?ref=16897

In the end, what we are comparing here is:
Ont tp, Hagun set has:
10 more atk
2 more double attack

Rindomaru has
1 more acc
2 more STR

on WS, Hagun has:
tp Bonus
5 more STR

Rindomaru has
3 atk
5 hit build

Everything is very close. We are really comparing only a 5-hit build with Rindomaru against a 6-hit with the Hagun bonus.

That said, some numbers.

1)Hagun,
-WSing at 130 STR ( As per FFXIGear )
-@ 100 tp.
-5 WSes ( Rindomaru will do 6 in the same time frame)
- Considering a bir for vit ( VIT 67 )


D = 75. fSTR = 15. Bonus from STR = 0.83 * 0.75 * 130 = 80. Base D = 80+75+16 = 170

Multiplied by fTP we get a base 318. Times 5 WSes we get 1590 base damage.


2) Rindomaru
-WSing at 125 STR ( As per FFXIGear )
-@ 100 tp.
-6 WSes ( Hagun will do 5 in the same time frame)
-Considering a bir for vit ( VIT 67 )

D = 77. fSTR = 14. Bonus from STR = 0.83 * 0.75 * 125 = 77. Base D = 168

Multiplied by fTP we get base 262. Times 6 WSes we get 1572 base damage.


So yes, it will be *very* close. The Hagun set is cheaper ( Hagun + hauby +1 are cheaper than Usukane ), and the rindomaru set requires a perfect augment on rindomaru.

I have not considered what other augments you could have on rindo either. But either way, it will be *very* close to Hagun if you can pull it off.

Edited, Jul 29th 2009 12:51pm by TheKhory
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#15 Jul 29 2009 at 9:39 AM Rating: Good
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@TheKhory


You're not using WS gorgets? They're **** easy to obtain and are almost essential to all melee...They also change the math.

Added note: Since the "WS Damage +%" is not exclusive to SAM, we can assume it influences WSs by adding to fTP, and if it doesn't it only makes Rindomaru even more desirable.

Lets change your math to include WS Gorgets and fTP bonus:

Rindomaru (3% WS DMG)
-WSing at 122 STR
-@ 100 tp.
-6 WSes ( Hagun will do 5 in the same time frame)
-Considering a bir for vit ( VIT 67 )

D = 77
fSTR = 13
WSC = 75
Base D = 165
fTP = 1.6925

WSD = 165 * 1.6925 = 279

Total WS D = 279 * 6 = 1674



Hagun,
-WSing at 127 STR
-@ 100 tp.
-5 WSes ( Rindomaru will do 6 in the same time frame)
- Considering a bir for vit ( VIT 67 )


D = 75
fSTR = 15.
WSC = 78
Base D = 168
fTP = 1.975

WSD = 331

Total WS D = 1655



Rindomaru beats Hagun. Note that the numbers are just Base damage, after applying pDIF and Overwhelm, the difference becomes more noticeable, though the same % wise.

Also the difference grows the longer you use it, obviously. Over the course of a merit party, the difference is quite noticeable, unless you only do 5-6 WSs in a merit party? <.<
#16 Jul 29 2009 at 10:28 AM Rating: Excellent
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Khory wrote:
5 4 WSes ( Rindomaru will do 6 5 in the same time frame)

"6-hit" = WS + 5 hits after, WS doesn't take "time" so rindo will do ~1.25x more WS, not ~1.20x as you suggested.
Arucard wrote:
Since the "WS Damage +%" is not exclusive to SAM, we can assume it influences WSs by adding to fTP,
I don't know why you think it's a tp mod, it's more likely to be a separate modifier like overwhelm IMO.


The real problem is going to be getting a "max stat" rindo, but that's just a matter of doing the fight over and over.
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#17 Jul 29 2009 at 11:05 AM Rating: Good
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I don't know why you think it's a tp mod, it's more likely to be a separate modifier like overwhelm IMO.


Because all other forms of "Increases WS Damage" have been an fTP mod. If the increases WS damage were exclusive to SAM I could see it as stacking with overwhelm, but it's not exclusive, and all other examples, being WS Gorgets and assualt weapons, boosting fTP by the equivalent decimal.

As for the perfect rindo, it helps, but isn't completely necessary, as there are other STP options that aren't terrible...just not too many and most situational.

Edited, Jul 29th 2009 12:05pm by Arucaurd
#18 Jul 30 2009 at 5:37 AM Rating: Decent
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I had completely forgotten about sea gorgets.... I am still stuck at 5-3, so i dont have any yet...

And point is taken for the 4 hits after the ws vs 5 hits after the ws.

All of those make rindomaru better. Plus the other enhancements will make it even better. So yeah, it dethroned Hagun.

As long as you have the required usukane.
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#19 Jul 30 2009 at 6:22 AM Rating: Good
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I'm curious to see how/if Pahn will amend his statement near the beginning of the thread:

Quote:
in the future: "can i sell my hagun and use [insert GK that isn't amano] without taking a hit to my damage?" answer: no.


I'm inclined to think he's still correct. But going back to the hypothetical Rindo... does anyone have evidence of a Rindo with Store TP +16, +3-4 ACC and WS Damage +5% actually existing?

Quote:
All of those make rindomaru better. Plus the other enhancements will make it even better. So yeah, it dethroned Hagun.

As long as you have the required usukane.


And the 100% perfectly configured hypothetical Rindomaru. It really strikes me as a bit premature to label the Hagun as "dethroned" due to these number crunches. One could, theoretically, receive a STR+4 augment from FoV on a Hachiman Domaru but I'd stop short of saying that Kirin's Osode has been dethroned >.>

Edited, Jul 30th 2009 10:24am by Beltenebros
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#20 Jul 30 2009 at 7:26 AM Rating: Decent
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I'm inclined to think he's still correct. But going back to the hypothetical Rindo... does anyone have evidence of a Rindo with Store TP +16, +3-4 ACC and WS Damage +5% actually existing?


While I have not seen a 16stp 5acc 5%DMG Rindo, I have seen a 16stp, 2acc, 3%DMG rindo. I've also seen that the cap of WS DMG is at least 5%, cap to ACC is at least 5, and the cap to STP is at least 16.

Either way, you don't need an Ideal Rindo to trump Hagun, just a good one. An Ideal Rindo will trounce Hagun.

Notable Exception: Anything were you don't melee much and/or only go in to TA or SATA WSs, Hagun is still the best because you're going for sheer spike damage.

Quote:
And the 100% perfectly configured hypothetical Rindomaru. It really strikes me as a bit premature to label the Hagun as "dethroned" due to these number crunches. One could, theoretically, receive a STR+4 augment from FoV on a Hachiman Domaru but I'd stop short of saying that Kirin's Osode has been dethroned >.>


Funny thing that a STR Augmented Domaruuuu would make Rindo even better lol.

I also think the current trend for augments is to add a stat other than the one a piece of armor has the most of. Like you'll see Foragers with ACC/DEX+ but never ATK/STR+, but that's just a bunch of speculation, and I hope it's not true. I'd kill for a Forager's with +5ATK or +2STR...

As for pahn, if you really need someone to do simple multiplication and addition for you... =/

You don't need someone that runs around pretending to be drunk to save you from 3rd grade math. Especially if they'll just run out and assume something like HAGUN IS ALWAYS THE BEST without even looking to see.
#21 Jul 30 2009 at 7:45 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
Notable Exception: Anything were you don't melee much and/or only go in to TA or SATA WSs, Hagun is still the best because you're going for sheer spike damage.


Which is where I was sort of going with my arguing against the "it dethroned hagun" argument. I don't see the hypothetical Rindo replacing a Hagun for HNMs or Instance (certain KSNM/BCNM/Mission/etc) battles. For MeritPo, Dynamis, etc the 5-hit Rindo would appear to pull ahead of the Hagun, assuming one has Usukane and the optimal Rindo augmentations.

Quote:
You don't need someone that runs around pretending to be drunk to save you from 3rd grade math. Especially if they'll just run out and assume something like HAGUN IS ALWAYS THE BEST without even looking to see.


Now now, let's try to keep the discourse civil...
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#22 Jul 30 2009 at 8:36 AM Rating: Default
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Quote:
Which is where I was sort of going with my arguing against the "it dethroned hagun" argument. I don't see the hypothetical Rindo replacing a Hagun for HNMs or Instance (certain KSNM/BCNM/Mission/etc) battles. For MeritPo, Dynamis, etc the 5-hit Rindo would appear to pull ahead of the Hagun, assuming one has Usukane and the optimal Rindo augmentations.


Rindo will outperform Hagun on anything that you're allowed to melee and lasts for more than 3 minutes.

Hagun is better for Zerg Fights, Meikyo Shisui, TAing Wyrms/Khim/etc (When using tp before 300).

Rindo would be better for Standard Kirin's, Gods, Jailers, Limbus, Dynamis, Nyzul, Einherjar, Battlefields, etc.
#23 Jul 30 2009 at 9:22 AM Rating: Decent
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The funny thing is: Rindo can be better than Hagun or worse than Onimaru.

Those augments can really swing both ways. Mine got +10sTP, +4acc and +2Racc...

Edited, Jul 30th 2009 1:23pm by TheKhory
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#24 Aug 10 2009 at 1:41 PM Rating: Decent
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Got mine on 3rd try, first rindomaru.

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a102/dslodolce/rindomaru.jpg

I have usu body and feet etc. but i dont have the rose strap yet. With that rindo, i could use spaghetti carbonara, WS in usu body and feet (lose 4 str from rutter and osode i think) but keep 5 hit always. Considering it until rose strap... thoughts?
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#25 Aug 11 2009 at 9:03 AM Rating: Decent
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Got mine on 3rd try, first rindomaru.

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a102/dslodolce/rindomaru.jpg

I have usu body and feet etc. but i dont have the rose strap yet. With that rindo, i could use spaghetti carbonara, WS in usu body and feet (lose 4 str from rutter and osode i think) but keep 5 hit always. Considering it until rose strap... thoughts?

Nice situational weapon for mamool.
5 hit polearm on 2 floors of colibri still gives you the best exp rate in game.
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