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#1 Aug 27 2010 at 2:29 AM Rating: Good
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From the General Forum
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Courser's Roll (COR Lv.81)
Enhances "Snapshot" effect for party members within area of effect. Lucky number: 3. Unlucky number: 9.

Blitzer's Roll (COR Lv.83)
Reduces melee attack delay for party members within area of effect. Lucky number: 4. Unlucky number: 9.


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#2 Aug 27 2010 at 2:32 AM Rating: Excellent
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Time will tell if Blitzer's Roll is a Sword Strap style delay reduction or actual Haste, though.

Incidentally I can sort of see Blitzer's/Fighter's becoming a popular combination.
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#3 Aug 27 2010 at 3:06 AM Rating: Decent
A roll with a description of what appears to be haste?! Look at all those COR/WHM who used to be at the colibri meripo camp before the level cap went up rejoice.

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#4 Aug 27 2010 at 3:24 AM Rating: Excellent
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Lucinus wrote:
Time will tell if Blitzer's Roll is a Sword Strap style delay reduction or actual Haste, though.
Well, it obviously wont be actual Haste. It's most likely a direct reduction to melee delay just like Haste Samba.

I certainly hope it's not a weapon delay reduction... that would tear x-hit builds to shreds.
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#5 Aug 27 2010 at 5:01 AM Rating: Good
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chewzer wrote:
Lucinus wrote:
Time will tell if Blitzer's Roll is a Sword Strap style delay reduction or actual Haste, though.
Well, it obviously wont be actual Haste. It's most likely a direct reduction to melee delay just like Haste Samba.
Thereby falling under JA Haste, surely, if it isn't the dreaded weapon-delay reduction.
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#6 Aug 27 2010 at 5:06 AM Rating: Decent
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i dont understand, why would it hurt x-hit builds (i dont know as much about this stuff as you)?
#7 Aug 27 2010 at 5:10 AM Rating: Good
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X-Hit builds work entirely around weapon Delay, which affects TP gain per hit (and therefore Store TP). Play with Delay and everything goes insane.
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#8 Aug 27 2010 at 6:31 AM Rating: Good
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Haste is pure win, but snapshot, which i was hoping for, finally throws a bone to ranged attackers!

I am sure it will not be delay reduction of the type that lowers tp gain, they just dont want to word it so that people think they may get recast reductions out of it. But as usual, SE's attempts at clarity only produce worse fears.

EDIT: Why did they have to make these 2 separate rolls anyway? They hate letting us buff a RNG with the other DDs and still be effective for all. Not that i think its hard to hit the rng(s) and not melee, but its extra running around that would be nice to avoid.

Edited, Aug 27th 2010 7:34am by LordTrey
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#9 Aug 27 2010 at 7:05 AM Rating: Decent
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I'm sure it's not weapon delay reduction or it would have said weapon delay reduction, not melée attack reduction.

It's two DD haste rolls I'm sure and that will totally change how we roll from here on in. I think it also makes 2 COR parties almost a necessity to maximize DD potential. Blitzers, Chaos, SAM, Fighters combo on melée would make them super powered.
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#10 Aug 27 2010 at 7:32 AM Rating: Decent
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Depends on what it actually means and if it was translated correctly. We won't know till we see the roll in action. From an online translator the German website says increases attack speed, JP lowers attack interval, French reduces the time of attacks.

If it is actual delay reduction it's really going to depend on how much delay reduction it is. If you can get a lot it will still be very powerful for 1hand and H2H jobs.

Edited, Aug 27th 2010 9:33am by darkhorror
#11 Aug 27 2010 at 7:34 AM Rating: Good
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Dartagnann wrote:
I'm sure it's not weapon delay reduction or it would have said weapon delay reduction, not melée attack reduction.

It's two DD haste rolls I'm sure and that will totally change how we roll from here on in. I think it also makes 2 COR parties almost a necessity to maximize DD potential. Blitzers, Chaos, SAM, Fighters combo on melée would make them super powered.


I am sure there is a point of diminishing returns though. Haste still does reign supreme, so (unless the magical haste cap is already met, which is fairly tough without a BRD) healer/COR/BRD/DDX3 may still be better than healer/CORX2/BRD/DDX2.

I know that in my at least 300+ merits in a COR/BRD pt (I have both lvlled), the "godly" setup of BRD/COR/healer/DDX3 really wasnt that much more powerful over BRD/healer/DDX4.

Edit: Unless, of course, the CORs are fantastically geared and they are DDing as well. That may be the tipping point.

Edited, Aug 27th 2010 9:35am by ManifestOfKujata
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#12 Aug 27 2010 at 7:45 AM Rating: Decent
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COR/BRD/DNC/ DDx3 would be supreme pt as long as the dancer doesnt suck.
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#13 Aug 27 2010 at 7:58 AM Rating: Decent
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I just hope that my time consuming to obtain Commodore Tricorne actually has a chance to augment these rolls. I still haven't seen evidence it does anything to Bolters or Casters.

Just because they are moving away from the job bonus schema of past rolls doesn't mean they should make the AF2 hat obsolete. Hear that SE.
And give us that stupid BRD ability next level update. It makes so much more sense for COR.
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#14 Aug 27 2010 at 8:32 AM Rating: Decent
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Blizters will be interesting, I too hope it's not weapon delay reduction, but literally the description (decreases melee attack delay).

Snapshot is very nice. I can see this being quite useful in a Ranger heavy HNM party, and good for myself too if I'm bullet spamming.

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#15 Aug 27 2010 at 8:50 AM Rating: Decent
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Haste, Haste Samba, and Hasso all say they increase attack speed, instead of reduce attack delay. So I'm expecting this will @#%^ with delay.
#16 Aug 27 2010 at 9:33 AM Rating: Decent
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Alobont wrote:
COR/BRD/DNC/ DDx3 would be supreme pt as long as the dancer doesnt suck.


It already does?

As far as Blitzers Roll, I have a feeling it will be seperate category outside of Haste or Delay reduction.
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#17 Aug 28 2010 at 9:59 AM Rating: Good
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I originally posted this in the Job Adjustments Part I thread in the general forum, but I wanted to repost it here where CORs can see it, especially since the original info is hidden amid tons of random stuff in that thread. I looked at the original Japanese to compare terminology for Haste effects and weapon delay reduction, since the wording was more ambiguous in English. Most Haste effects (except for Desperate Blows) are listed as "increasing attack speed", which was a different wording than Blitzer's Roll as listed. I decided to do some digging in the original Japanese texts to check the wording on Haste-related terms:

Blitzer's Roll: 攻撃間隔短縮の効果
(Effect of shortening the attack interval)

Haste (Spell) and March: 標的の攻撃間隔を短くする
(The attack interval of the target is shortened)

Haste Samba: 敵を被攻撃間隔短縮状態にする
(The enemy is put in the state of attack interval shortening)

Hasso: 両手武器使用時に攻撃間隔
(When two-handed weapons are used, there is a shortening of the attack interval)

Desperate Blows: ラストリゾート中に両手武器の攻撃間隔短縮
(During Last Resort, there is a shortening of the attack interval for two-handed weapons)

Hundred Fists: 格闘の攻撃間隔が短くなる
(Shortening of hand-to-hand attack interval)

On the other hand:
Martial Arts: 格闘の攻撃時間が80減少する
(Decreases the hand-to-hand attack time by 80)

So it has the same wording as all the Haste effects and Hundred Fists, and not a delay reduction like Martial Arts - I'm inclined to believe this is a Haste roll.
#18 Aug 28 2010 at 2:18 PM Rating: Good
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gonna have to do some parade raining on blitzer's roll.

anyone thought about the problem you're gonna run into with haste caps? blitzer's has all the earmarks of being JA haste(same as hasso/haste samba). JA haste has an incredibly low cap-25%-when you factor in the amounts each buff to it give(hasso-10%, haste samba-10%)

causes two problems: blitzer will never be as effective as marchx2. dual-march caps out at ~40%, I'll be surprised if blitzer will even produce the ja cap of 25% on an 11, it certainly won't break 20% as an average.

which leads into the 2nd problem, in the quote-unquote ideal party set-up people are mentioning(dnc/brd/cor/ddx3) you're looking at 3 ~10% ja haste providers but with a 25% cap. someone needs to drop haste to maximize peformance.

dnc changing sambas is a bad idea, haste samba is the only one that improves kill speed. so it's between melee riding seigan(not a horrible idea but does come with an added -10 acc, -5~10 str penalty) or cor using a different dd-boosting roll(chaos/sam/fighter, maybe rogue with the new dnc step*)

I know if i was the dnc in the party, I'd want the cor to change.

obviously without the dnc, or with 1h dd's that goes out the window. but really when people say "DD*x" they mean "2hDD*x"


*feather step, lowers enemy "critical hit evasion" provided that it lets us exceed the 20%(24%-merited) cap on that
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#19 Aug 28 2010 at 2:18 PM Rating: Good
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oops double

Edited, Aug 28th 2010 4:19pm by sscearcev
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#20 Aug 28 2010 at 8:22 PM Rating: Good
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That's assuming all your melees are using hasso to begin with. Not everyone has it. MNK/NIN/DNC/THF/BLU can't use it at all, and not everyone has /SAM (though they should). If blitzer's can average 10% or better, it might be worth having melees /nin for damage reduction anyway.
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#21 Aug 29 2010 at 4:46 PM Rating: Decent
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Desoo wrote:
That's assuming all your melees are using hasso to begin with. Not everyone has it. MNK/NIN/DNC/THF/BLU can't use it at all, and not everyone has /SAM (though they should). If blitzer's can average 10% or better, it might be worth having melees /nin for damage reduction anyway.


Lol. You convince 90% of player base that full timing hasso is a bad idea let alone maybe they should sub nin.
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#22 Aug 30 2010 at 12:55 PM Rating: Good
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Desoo wrote:
That's assuming all your melees are using hasso to begin with. Not everyone has it. MNK/NIN/DNC/THF/BLU can't use it at all, and not everyone has /SAM (though they should). If blitzer's can average 10% or better, it might be worth having melees /nin for damage reduction anyway.


Don't forget other 1-hand/H2H users who may be meleeing and won't be using /SAM. PLD, PUP, COR (!!!), BST. Add the 5 you mentioned, and we're looking at 9/20 jobs who will melee and won't have Hasso. PLUS 2handers not using Hasso.
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#23 Aug 31 2010 at 7:34 AM Rating: Decent
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Bumping this thread, because this is also win:

Screenshot


http://wilddragonchase.blogspot.com/search/label/Dat%20Mining%20FFXI

Edited, Aug 31st 2010 9:20am by Toioiz
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#24 Aug 31 2010 at 9:29 AM Rating: Decent
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COR/BRD/DNC/ DDx3 would be supreme pt as long as the dancer doesnt suck.

who cast haste?

I dont like this!i dont like cor/whm, it sux

#25 Aug 31 2010 at 4:20 PM Rating: Decent
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Anyone know the .DAT locations for the new rolls?
#26 Aug 31 2010 at 5:07 PM Rating: Decent
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seijichou wrote:
who cast haste?


The same guy who casts Dia III. Ditch a DD, make a real party.
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#27 Sep 02 2010 at 4:26 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
COR/BRD/DNC/ DDx3


Just to discuss this a little further, as this roll + the 80+ level cap has changed possible scenarios that need considering in ultimate setups. (Also note that @80, 6man pty's died, but w/e, we spent too many years discussing this kinda thing).

In the aboce setup, the DNC (which has to be a good one who can cure a pty with 5/5 HS merits) would obviously be on Cure+BS+HS duty. The BRD would ideally be /NIN as the job is unmatched as far as pulling goes. The 3xDD's would obviously be the meat heads at the front.

This leaves COR/whm? on 4-roll rotation + haste + Dia/LightS + pro/shell + debuff duty. As much as all COR's would hate this, the alternative would be a less affective DMG output pty adding in a legit healer meaning only 2xpure DD and the DNC not being used to its potential - In this case, the COR would also not be being held to its potential as we know how much mp gear a cor can stk ~~

Again, this isn't to relevant because thankfully SE changed the way we exp 75+ - I can see us talking about perfect allaince exp setups in the not to far future however, and I can easily see 2/3 of the pty's consisting of that setup. If they were 2 jobs I'd of bet on bein changed because of how the rest of the game is changing simply from going 75-99 it'd of been the 2 most versatile jobs in the game - COR & RDM.



Lastly, if Blitz roll is JA haste, then MNK's will be top DD's no question - they are already contenders at 70% haste, a pty like the above (with decent 25% haste MNK's); Would make COR/WHM BRD/NIN DNC/? MNK/NINx3 unstoppable and if COR's could deliver 10% JA haste from the roll, would mean MNK's hitting an additional 6% Haste faster than hundred fists (basically 30% faster than when they in 100fist mode)

Edited, Sep 2nd 2010 6:33am by Sandmasterr
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#28 Sep 02 2010 at 11:04 AM Rating: Excellent
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noob Cor Question: If there is a Cor/Whm and the only healer is a Dnc swinging her daggers at the monster then why does the Cor need to do a 4-roll rotation? Shouldn't it be something like 2-roll most of the time and 4-roll only for MP resting (for haste)?
#29 Sep 02 2010 at 11:18 AM Rating: Good
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Looking forward to seeing where the chips fall on Blitzer's. It was my initial impression that it was going to be a straight "total delay" reduction and therefore operate similarly to Haste Samba. That means it would be operating outside the normal haste cap, while making sure not to reduce recast timers and such that accompany a normal Haste spell.

Think the gamescape will change any at 90/45 when Joe DD (or even We) can sub DNC for 5% haste samba? The +5% from fully merited samba is a big deal, but will parties choose another DD / a different healer over DNC, not knowing if it's fully merited or not?
#30 Sep 05 2010 at 5:13 PM Rating: Default
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Oddwaffle wrote:
noob Cor Question: If there is a Cor/Whm and the only healer is a Dnc swinging her daggers at the monster then why does the Cor need to do a 4-roll rotation? Shouldn't it be something like 2-roll most of the time and 4-roll only for MP resting (for haste)?
If there is a COR/GAY, they don't have anything else better to do than keep up a 4-roll rotation.
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#31 Sep 07 2010 at 11:21 PM Rating: Decent
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chewzer wrote:
Oddwaffle wrote:
noob Cor Question: If there is a Cor/Whm and the only healer is a Dnc swinging her daggers at the monster then why does the Cor need to do a 4-roll rotation? Shouldn't it be something like 2-roll most of the time and 4-roll only for MP resting (for haste)?
If there is a COR/GAY, they don't have anything else better to do than keep up a 4-roll rotation.
but the question was about Cor/whm, not Cor/pup.... {I don't understand.} Smiley: confused

Edited, Sep 8th 2010 12:21am by Jinte
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Am I the only one who clicked on this thread expecting actual baby photos [of Jinte]? o.O

Except if it were baby photos, it would be like looking at before and afters of Michael Jackson. Only instead of turning into a white guy, he changes into a chick!
#32 Sep 08 2010 at 1:07 AM Rating: Good
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chewzer wrote:
Oddwaffle wrote:
noob Cor Question: If there is a Cor/Whm and the only healer is a Dnc swinging her daggers at the monster then why does the Cor need to do a 4-roll rotation? Shouldn't it be something like 2-roll most of the time and 4-roll only for MP resting (for haste)?
If there is a COR/GAY, they don't have anything else better to do than keep up a 4-roll rotation.


For the record, I'm gay, and I always COR/DD.
#33 Sep 08 2010 at 3:05 AM Rating: Good
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Doesn't that make you GAY/COR?
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#34 Sep 08 2010 at 8:28 AM Rating: Default
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Sandmasterr wrote:
Doesn't that make you GAY/COR?
Smiley: laugh
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Chew is being a lot more level-headed regarding the whole issue, which is strange because he's probably drunk.
#35 Sep 08 2010 at 9:02 AM Rating: Decent
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Sandmasterr wrote:
Quote:
COR/BRD/DNC/ DDx3


Just to discuss this a little further, as this roll + the 80+ level cap has changed possible scenarios that need considering in ultimate setups. (Also note that @80, 6man pty's died, but w/e, we spent too many years discussing this kinda thing).

In the aboce setup, the DNC (which has to be a good one who can cure a pty with 5/5 HS merits) would obviously be on Cure+BS+HS duty. The BRD would ideally be /NIN as the job is unmatched as far as pulling goes. The 3xDD's would obviously be the meat heads at the front.

This leaves COR/whm? on 4-roll rotation + haste + Dia/LightS + pro/shell + debuff duty. As much as all COR's would hate this, the alternative would be a less affective DMG output pty adding in a legit healer meaning only 2xpure DD and the DNC not being used to its potential - In this case, the COR would also not be being held to its potential as we know how much mp gear a cor can stk ~~

Again, this isn't to relevant because thankfully SE changed the way we exp 75+ - I can see us talking about perfect allaince exp setups in the not to far future however, and I can easily see 2/3 of the pty's consisting of that setup. If they were 2 jobs I'd of bet on bein changed because of how the rest of the game is changing simply from going 75-99 it'd of been the 2 most versatile jobs in the game - COR & RDM.



Lastly, if Blitz roll is JA haste, then MNK's will be top DD's no question - they are already contenders at 70% haste, a pty like the above (with decent 25% haste MNK's); Would make COR/WHM BRD/NIN DNC/? MNK/NINx3 unstoppable and if COR's could deliver 10% JA haste from the roll, would mean MNK's hitting an additional 6% Haste faster than hundred fists (basically 30% faster than when they in 100fist mode)

Edited, Sep 2nd 2010 6:33am by Sandmasterr


I dont think the loss of dia would hurt the kill speed due to the fact that you can easily max a camp out and run out of mobs. It would need testing but if you speed up your kills to a certain point, your going to be sitting around waiting for repops.
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#36 Sep 08 2010 at 1:22 PM Rating: Decent
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apresmoi wrote:
chewzer wrote:
Oddwaffle wrote:
noob Cor Question: If there is a Cor/Whm and the only healer is a Dnc swinging her daggers at the monster then why does the Cor need to do a 4-roll rotation? Shouldn't it be something like 2-roll most of the time and 4-roll only for MP resting (for haste)?
If there is a COR/GAY, they don't have anything else better to do than keep up a 4-roll rotation.


For the record, I'm gay, and I always COR/DD.
For the record, I'm trans, and cor is my next job to cap. I'm planning on War, Pup, Cor as my top line jobs Smiley: grin
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Reiterpallasch wrote:
Glitterhands wrote:
Am I the only one who clicked on this thread expecting actual baby photos [of Jinte]? o.O

Except if it were baby photos, it would be like looking at before and afters of Michael Jackson. Only instead of turning into a white guy, he changes into a chick!
#37 Sep 08 2010 at 2:20 PM Rating: Good
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I dont think the loss of dia would hurt the kill speed due to the fact that you can easily max a camp out and run out of mobs. It would need testing but if you speed up your kills to a certain point, your going to be sitting around waiting for repops.


What camp are you talking about. Colibri are so 2009. I don't know of any Abyssea camps that you can outkill pops unless you are into heavy competition.

The time to argue ultimate bird camp setups has long since past.
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#38 Sep 08 2010 at 6:37 PM Rating: Decent
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chewzer wrote:
Oddwaffle wrote:
noob Cor Question: If there is a Cor/Whm and the only healer is a Dnc swinging her daggers at the monster then why does the Cor need to do a 4-roll rotation? Shouldn't it be something like 2-roll most of the time and 4-roll only for MP resting (for haste)?
If there is a COR/GAY, they don't have anything else better to do than keep up a 4-roll rotation.

I think his question, was who the hell are you putting the 3rd and 4th roll on?
Yourself I guess, but even so, you shouldn't need more than evokers to keep up haste/dia, leaving only a 3 roll rotation.
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#39 Sep 09 2010 at 7:52 PM Rating: Good
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Enilanerda wrote:
chewzer wrote:
Oddwaffle wrote:
noob Cor Question: If there is a Cor/Whm and the only healer is a Dnc swinging her daggers at the monster then why does the Cor need to do a 4-roll rotation? Shouldn't it be something like 2-roll most of the time and 4-roll only for MP resting (for haste)?
If there is a COR/GAY, they don't have anything else better to do than keep up a 4-roll rotation.

I think his question, was who the hell are you putting the 3rd and 4th roll on?
Yourself I guess, but even so, you shouldn't need more than evokers to keep up haste/dia, leaving only a 3 roll rotation.
Wizard's for QD.
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#40 Sep 10 2010 at 1:44 AM Rating: Good
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Well, that sucks. I was hoping it the description was worded poory, but Blitzer's Roll really does decrease weapon delay.

The effect seems huge. The DRG in this party went from 17tp/hit to 12tp/hit with a lucky roll. Maybe it's worth it?
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Chew is being a lot more level-headed regarding the whole issue, which is strange because he's probably drunk.
#41 Sep 10 2010 at 5:24 AM Rating: Decent
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So if it affects tp gain, this roll, then WS heavy jobs like the 2h brigade do not gain as much as it from DoT heavy jobs like for example monk.

Not sure what the WS/melee dmg split is on say drg/drk/sam, but h2h mnk is round about 30/70, so more melee hits is good.

As I am not a mathy person, I understand this to mean monk nin etc gain a lot more than say 2h jobs. But...

Does this mean now, a decent roll on this will now make monk the new super DD? As far as I know, for any equal haste situation monk wins, but the ja haste from hasso etc means in reality 2h generally have more haste, but if delay lowers, x-hit builds suffer more as it skews 2h jobs to more melee dmg % than WS. Whereas for monk, using h2h, lower delay is not such a penalty.
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#42 Sep 10 2010 at 5:49 AM Rating: Good
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2,591 posts
A well equipped good Mnk or Nin will orgasm from this roll.

In one of your abyss groups, add (MNKorNIN)x4 + BRD + COR for Blitz/chaos/double march - makin sure they all have haste spell then watch the pwnage - if what your satyin is correct on 17tp/hit reducing to 12tp/hit.

Thats massive for DoT jobs. Just make sure the mnk's or nin's you buff arn't gimp or newbies w/o any understanding on how to gearchange etc (maybe ask their gear sets + play style lol - i will be). Also, good Thf's will pwn from this on pearcin weak mobs.
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