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Pup sucks in Zergs. This is a fact.Follow

#27 Jul 23 2012 at 6:13 PM Rating: Good
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dustinfoley wrote:
This whole thread reminds me of the issues with xiozen claim that you can tell the difference between all the different animators and if you couldn't you fail at pup.

Xiozen..... Smiley: disappointed
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Reiterpallasch wrote:
Glitterhands wrote:
Am I the only one who clicked on this thread expecting actual baby photos [of Jinte]? o.O

Except if it were baby photos, it would be like looking at before and afters of Michael Jackson. Only instead of turning into a white guy, he changes into a chick!
#29 Jul 24 2012 at 6:03 PM Rating: Excellent
Zelduh wrote:
dustinfoley wrote:
This whole thread reminds me of the issues with xiozen claim that you can tell the difference between all the different animators and if you couldn't you fail at pup.


You can. The basic animator allows you to use maneuvers. The Turbo Animator allows you to use maneuvers and gives you DEX+2. The Animator +1 allows you to use maneuvers and gives you DEX+4 and increases the HP/MP of the automaton. The Deluxe Animator allows you to use maneuvers and gives you DEX+6. :P


If memory serves, he was meaning seeing changes in the performance of the actual Automaton between Turbo Animator and Animator +1, like it reacts differently with the two animators (Deluxe didn't exist at the time) and drastically changes your Automaton's performance.
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#30 Jul 25 2012 at 7:20 AM Rating: Good
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(Deluxe didn't exist at the time) and drastically changes your Automaton's performance.


I've read it reduces cast time but only once w/ no other support, Please enlighten me as to what is currently known.

Thanks in advance.
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Pikko wrote:
I can't freaking believe I didn't click this thread earlier. YOU LITTLE TWERPS!!


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#31 Jul 25 2012 at 11:58 AM Rating: Good
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TaimMeich wrote:

If you reply to this, either we all learn something amazing from you, or you are proven wrong. I'll be happy in both cases.


This.
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#32 Jul 25 2012 at 1:42 PM Rating: Decent
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Seems to be a lot less forthcoming when it doesn't involve insulting people's intelligence.
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rdmcandie wrote:
RDM can attain an almost static 50% reduction to recast time, SCH can over shoot this for a total of 60% reduction under Alacrity (provided you are wearing loafers and keeping dark weather on yourself)

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MACC is a joke, any job with access to mage gear can hit close the MACC cap on legion mobs, which is why my BRD/RDM can land slow/para/blind despite having only 150 skill (from /RDM.)
#33 Jul 25 2012 at 3:00 PM Rating: Excellent
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Vlorsutes wrote:
Zelduh wrote:
dustinfoley wrote:
This whole thread reminds me of the issues with xiozen claim that you can tell the difference between all the different animators and if you couldn't you fail at pup.


You can. The basic animator allows you to use maneuvers. The Turbo Animator allows you to use maneuvers and gives you DEX+2. The Animator +1 allows you to use maneuvers and gives you DEX+4 and increases the HP/MP of the automaton. The Deluxe Animator allows you to use maneuvers and gives you DEX+6. :P


If memory serves, he was meaning seeing changes in the performance of the actual Automaton between Turbo Animator and Animator +1, like it reacts differently with the two animators (Deluxe didn't exist at the time) and drastically changes your Automaton's performance.

That's pretty much exactly what he was claiming, "You can see an obvious difference between the three animators in terms of automaton behavior" and rather than providing his evidence for testing he would always respond "Test it yourself and you'll see what I mean" while ignoring the fact that several ofus HAD tested it, AND posted our findings that completely disproved everything he said, claiming that we did it wrong.
Dalans wrote:
Quote:
(Deluxe didn't exist at the time) and drastically changes your Automaton's performance.


I've read it reduces cast time but only once w/ no other support, Please enlighten me as to what is currently known.

Thanks in advance.

Here's what they do:
Animator: allows you to use Maneuvers
Turbo Animator: allows you to use Maneuvers, and has the following hidden effects: DEX +2
Animator +1: allows you to use Maneuvers and has the following hidden effects: DEX+4 Valoredge: HP+60, Sharpshot: HP+45, Stormwaker: HP+40 MP+60, Harlequin: HP+50 MP+50
Deluxe Animator: allows you to use Maneuvers and has the following hidden effects: DEX+6

According to the testing of a large group of very intelligent math-fluent pups, including myself, there is absolutely nothing else the animators do. If, somehow, we've missed something they do, the resulting something is so absolutely minuscule that it's nigh impossible to measure, and will have absolutely no impact on pet performance whatsoever.

Things that have been tested and debunked:
Influencing Casting Casting Time
Influencing Global Recast Time
Influencing Spell Recast Time
Influencing Attachment Recast Time
Influencing Ranged Attack Rate
Influencing Weapon Skill Frequency (How often the puppet uses a ws, and how long it holds TP)
Influencing Overload Rate
Influencing Maneuvers in any way other than allowing them in the first place
Influencing Automaton AI
Influencing Automaton Stats (Atk, Def, Haste, Eva, Acc, MAB, MDB, etc, etc, with the exception being the frame-based max HP/MP bonuses on the animator +1)
Influencing the Automaton in absolutely any obvious manner
Influencing the Automaton in any subtle, but still noticeable manner
Influencing the Master in any way whatsoever (aside from the aforementioned +DEX and access to maneuvers)

The only thing that hasn't been tested is:
Influencing the Automaton in some minuscule way that is impossible to accurately test

which hasn't been tested because, well, it's impossible to accurately test.

Also, I'm waiting for Zelduh to say ANYTHING that my OP doesn't outright disprove Smiley: dubious
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Reiterpallasch wrote:
Glitterhands wrote:
Am I the only one who clicked on this thread expecting actual baby photos [of Jinte]? o.O

Except if it were baby photos, it would be like looking at before and afters of Michael Jackson. Only instead of turning into a white guy, he changes into a chick!
#34 Jul 25 2012 at 3:53 PM Rating: Good
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Sorry I misread what V said in that quote
Quote:
(Deluxe didn't exist at the time) and drastically changes your Automaton's performance.


Took it as the others add nothing except dex hp/mp ; but Deluxe is Super Awesome and I don't know it.
(Parenthesis) are hard . . .
Carry On.
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Pikko wrote:
I can't freaking believe I didn't click this thread earlier. YOU LITTLE TWERPS!!


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#35 Jul 25 2012 at 4:01 PM Rating: Excellent
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As an After thought I realized Jinte read my post and went on to reply with precise helpful info and not once berated me for my ignorance.

I feel proud of Jinte and perhaps a little cheated personally.
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Pikko wrote:
I can't freaking believe I didn't click this thread earlier. YOU LITTLE TWERPS!!


Wint wrote:
You know, I can click the rate down button more than once Smiley: motz


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#37 Jul 25 2012 at 8:16 PM Rating: Good
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Zelduh wrote:
I miss the days of 10/tick regain Burratainos. That was so broken


That settles it Smiley: disappointed
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Pikko wrote:
I can't freaking believe I didn't click this thread earlier. YOU LITTLE TWERPS!!


Wint wrote:
You know, I can click the rate down button more than once Smiley: motz


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#38 Jul 26 2012 at 3:28 AM Rating: Good
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Zelduh wrote:
I miss the days of 10/tick regain Burratainos. That was so broken


And you are still dodging my question.
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#40 Jul 26 2012 at 5:48 AM Rating: Excellent
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TaimMeich wrote:
Zelduh wrote:
Sorry but if your puppet dies doing a "zerg", you're doing it wrong. Once again, lrn2pup. And once again, the puppet does NOT need BRD or COR buffs.


I'll keep it simple: We have provided reasons as to why PUP doesn't work in zergs, the main one being having the automaton dead fast due to the high aoe damage present. You claim that keeping the automaton alive and maintaining an offensive in a zerg situation is possible, but haven't explained how.

My question is simple: Zelduh, what do YOU do to keep your automation alive in high-end zerg situations, while maintaining an offensive on the NM? Examples would be awesome, too.

If you reply to this, either we all learn something amazing from you, or you are proven wrong. I'll be happy in both cases.


Bolded the question for your convenience.
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#42 Jul 26 2012 at 8:37 AM Rating: Excellent
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A better troll would have just left the thread after they were called out. Shape up, Zelduh.
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#43 Jul 26 2012 at 9:38 AM Rating: Excellent
Zelduh wrote:
Magic.


Zelduh, it really doesn't help your cause if you comment about how Puppetmaster is amazing when it comes to zerg fights, but when asked by many individuals about one of the crucial aspects as to why we feel they wouldn't perform that well in one, you respond with that. If you believe that they are amazing and want people to see "the truth" as you put it, then explain why and give empirical evidence, and when asked something significant, you should respond to it seriously.
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#45 Jul 26 2012 at 8:43 PM Rating: Excellent
Zelduh wrote:
Too lazy to make you guys see the light =/ figure it out on your own


And too craven to own up to it when you've been called out for spewing BS, again.
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#46 Jul 26 2012 at 11:49 PM Rating: Good
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This thread is pretty much over. He's not going to give facts/ he showed his true colours. You just lost whatever credibility you had left with such a childish attitude. Trolls gunna be trolls
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#48 Jul 27 2012 at 10:46 AM Rating: Good
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So, assuming you're not a troll (and if you are, bad move staying on the topic), but apparently can't even provide proof of your beliefs. The "you people won't belive me" is not an excuse, hard proof is not subject to belief. Provide proof and I'll consider your statement more than just blind beliefs from someone extrapolating his EP Dynamis farming to endgame content.

As I said before, I am willing to be amazed at your zerg method... Even if I'm ready for disappointment.
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#49 Jul 27 2012 at 10:53 AM Rating: Decent
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Except you are... This forum (pup) is nothing but people who have loved and played pup from back before it was the cool thing to do. We know our stuff and a few of the people here are exceptionally good at math (jinte) and testing (too many to list), and when we tell you this is the way it is...sorry but your SOL because its really hard to make an argument against facts when your defense is 'nut uh, im right and your wrong'. No evidence, examples, parses, testings, or even hypothetical situations to back up your claim means your posting non-sense for the sake of trolling.

I am not saying that in practice a pup cant consistently out damage most classes because it wouldn't be true. No one goes 100% all the time, specially when 60% is enough to get most things done. You will have afkers, people multi-tasking/ multi-boxing, not using temps as quickly as possible, and in most real life situations, yes a pup giving 100% will out DD their whole link shell if the rest of the shell is only giving it a 60% effort.

In the math world, or in a LS where the monk is giving 100% as well, that 2-3 base dmg, 10-20% more kick attacks, and access to gear with more TA, DA, Haste, etc adds up. And in zerg situations, that 5-10% dmg difference becomes exponentially better. Factor in maneuvers, JA used to keep the pet alive, and other additional temp items that monks wont have to use as well as the fact that automaton dont have a zerg mode (no massive haste or buffs), and its very obvious, that a monk and pup both giving 100% will always lead to the monk out damaging the pup.
#51 Jul 27 2012 at 12:59 PM Rating: Excellent
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Zelduh wrote:
Nothing I say will convince you people that PUP is a good damage dealer


You're right we don't need to be convinced PUP is a **** Good Damage Dealer. We all know it is!

This Topic has nothing to do with PUP being a Damage Dealer it has to do with PUP in a Zerg Situation.

Enlighten us with your knowledge on How PUP is superior in Zergs to other jobs so that we may go forth and change the mindset of the FFXI community.
You champion the cause of the PUP Do not go forth alone allow us to battle with you so that we as a collective can show all non believers our true strength.
But alas you seem content to hoard your specific knowledge at the very least point us in the right direction so that we may figure it out for ourselves.

Zelduh you do the entire PUP community by not sharing your knowledge with us. All we can hope for is that we blindly stumble upon this secret and wonderous knowledge you possess and join you so that you are not alone.
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Pikko wrote:
I can't freaking believe I didn't click this thread earlier. YOU LITTLE TWERPS!!


Wint wrote:
You know, I can click the rate down button more than once Smiley: motz


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