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PUP Magian weapons?Follow

#1 Aug 13 2012 at 7:53 AM Rating: Good
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Hey,

So I started leveling PUP again after coming back and also thought I'd start a magian trial weapon for it. Now I have no idea what weapon is good except I heard something about STR path being good. I have MNK leveled and use Brawny for it, are they okay at all or crap for PUP? I won't be going for Vere, but aside from that I think I could manage most trials.

Also, I was wondering if any of the multi hit weapons are at all useful? I have a feeling they aren't, but yeah... Lastly, I will mostly duo and do old content/abbysea not VW and that sort of stuff if that at all matters.

Thanks in advance for any insights!

Edited, Sep 7th 2012 7:40pm by Kaolian Lock Thread: Thread derailed. Start a new one if you like, but people posting in it need to leave the drama elsewhere...
#2 Aug 13 2012 at 10:42 AM Rating: Excellent
As far as non-Magian h2h weapons go, the Brawny Adargas are the second best in the game right now, right behind the Girru from Legion. If you're not planning on making a Verethragna, the +Str path is a good alternative.

The only real thing that the multi-hit h2h had going for them back in the day was using them with Footwork on Mnk, relying on Tornado Kick for damage. For Pup though they've never been very good, so I'd recommend avoiding those in favor of something like the +Str path.
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#3 Aug 13 2012 at 12:15 PM Rating: Good
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I guess that was what I expected, but it's too bad... I would have liked multi-hit to be of more use since it is more fun. :)

Anyway thanks for the help Vlor!
#4 Aug 13 2012 at 10:47 PM Rating: Good
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Agree w/ Vlor on the STR path. Overall it is likely the best ele trial for PUP we get the most use from the str + Att.

I would also recomend the Auto's -PDT earth path as well , comes in handy for VE tank situations.

I have seen several PUP's w/ the wind AGL + Evasion path though I personally don't see the need vs fire path.

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#5 Aug 18 2012 at 2:08 PM Rating: Good
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Okay so I started the STR path and will slowly work towards that when I have time. I am curious though, I haven't done any Abyssea at all except for exping (I just got back to the game after yet another break) and I am not sure what gear to get. I do have some gil so I could probably get a pretty decent setup from the AH if that is at all possible. What items would you guys suggest I get as placeholders until I can get Abyssea going a little. Mainly I am interested in solo gear.

Thanks in advance!
#6 Aug 20 2012 at 4:55 AM Rating: Good
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Hard to beat PUP's Empy Gear Most of the +1 items are soloable , the rest are easily obtained through /shouts or my favorite method head out to the mob pop and ask other groups <Can I have it?>. Try to do the last method on a yellow proc job though.
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#7 Aug 20 2012 at 6:48 PM Rating: Good
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Belcrono wrote:
Hey,

So I started leveling PUP again after coming back and also thought I'd start a magian trial weapon for it. Now I have no idea what weapon is good except I heard something about STR path being good. I have MNK leveled and use Brawny for it, are they okay at all or crap for PUP? I won't be going for Vere, but aside from that I think I could manage most trials.

Also, I was wondering if any of the multi hit weapons are at all useful? I have a feeling they aren't, but yeah... Lastly, I will mostly duo and do old content/abbysea not VW and that sort of stuff if that at all matters.

Thanks in advance for any insights!


The Best h2h Weapons for pup:
1: Kenkonken
2: Verethragna
3: Girru
4: Oxyuranis (STR path)
4.5: Brawny Adargas
5: Oxyuranis (DEX path)
6: Shara's Fists
7: Duzumi (WoE VS weapon, which is really not worth the bother because VS performance without Verethragna isn't any different than stringing pummel or shijin spiral for pup)
That's based purely on my looking up the stats really quick. I might have missed one or two, and everything after kenkonken may have its order shifted depending on the actual math, but this is most of them. That also only speaks in terms of melee.

Obviously, the STR path are the best magian trial for damage, but they also take the most time, and are the most annoying to make. Both the AGI/Eva and Pet: MAB trials are useful for pup, and are incredibly easy to make (You can get all the kill trials done in a single day for either weapon, after that it's just a matter of getting geodes/ites) and have the same dmg/delay as the STR path, so they're a decent option to hold you over while you grind fire weather/geodes.

My list is:
Pet: MAB (Done)
Evasion (almost done, I've been lazy getting my breeze geodes)
Pet: PDT (Working on it, I had planned on it but never got around to it before I went on break)
Pet: MDB (Also working on it, because I was thoroughly impressed by it after playing with it on the test server)
STR (Working on it slowly, because it's such a pain in the *** to do, and I'm incredibly lazy)

Also, in defense of the EVA claws, the +27~8 EVA on them (after AGI) is enough to nearly cap your evasion rate on almost anything but the most annoying NMs, meaning you can use them and your normal TP set and not experience any issue. You don't really need them for regular mobs, skill and Evasion Bonus IV are typically more than enough there, but the extra chunk helps to cap you off against some of the weaker NMs. Honestly, at this point, using an evasion set is pretty much doing it wrong, unless you're not engaged, and are kiting something with ludicrous accuracy, but honestly.... what would that be? Smiley: laugh

I will also point out that the DEX magian claws are a relatively strong competitor purely by the nature of shijin spiral's 100% dex mod, and less because our best ws being multihits. They're not in the top 5 like the STR claws, but they're still very good weapons, and are relatively easier than the STR path, for those who aren't really willing/able to put in the stupid amount of effort/money the STR claws need right now.

Vlorsutes wrote:
As far as non-Magian h2h weapons go, the Brawny Adargas are the second best in the game right now, right behind the Girru from Legion. If you're not planning on making a Verethragna, the +Str path is a good alternative.

The only real thing that the multi-hit h2h had going for them back in the day was using them with Footwork on Mnk, relying on Tornado Kick for damage. For Pup though they've never been very good, so I'd recommend avoiding those in favor of something like the +Str path.


Oxyuranis (STR Path) vs Brawny Adargas is a fairly even wash, favoring the magian weapon a bit, especially for pup, since we're always a little behind in terms of attack. That said, there's some disgustingly twisted irony that a pair of adargas are one of the best h2h weapons in the game right now.

Belcrono wrote:
Okay so I started the STR path and will slowly work towards that when I have time. I am curious though, I haven't done any Abyssea at all except for exping (I just got back to the game after yet another break) and I am not sure what gear to get. I do have some gil so I could probably get a pretty decent setup from the AH if that is at all possible. What items would you guys suggest I get as placeholders until I can get Abyssea going a little. Mainly I am interested in solo gear.

Thanks in advance!


Pup is one of the rare jobs that has a stupidly strong AF3 set. Most other jobs have gotten some/most of the pieces cleanly replaced by now, or never had them in the first place, and some only got pieces that were clearly TP only or WS only. Pup got lucky. Our body, hands, and legs are all strong for TP and WS, and are still strong competitors even with other gear now available. Our head is still a very strong TP piece, and our boots are still one of our best ws pieces (and TP, if you can afford to use boots without haste). As for gear to hold you over, The Aurore set is excellent, regardless of the stigma. The body and legs are very strong pieces that dance all over almost everything we had available at 75, and the boots are very competitive by the nature of "every single one of our ******* TP boots has 2% haste" though that's less so now, because there are a couple not ridiculous to get (0/750ish on those 3% haste kokugetsu sune-ate) options with 3% haste if needed. What gear you use now will depend a bit on what you had at 75. Usukane body and feet are still excellent, and are stronger than aurore. Usukane pants vs aurore pants depends on how much acc you need. Walmart turban is still a handy option, and will hold you over nicely until you get your Cirque Capello +1. Beyond that, I'd need to know what gear you had to work with.

As for the Cirque set itself;
Leg seals are stupidly easy to get, the quest for them is just so ******* easy, and so ******* cheap.
Feet, body, and hand seals are all relatively easy to solo once you've got a couple of the more appropriate atma.
For that, feet come easiest from Gnawtooth Gary, who you can fight in your sleep once you've got minikin monstrocity to keep soulsoother refreshed.
Hands, for me, came from Sharabha, who takes a little practice to get used too, and benefits from having a decent MDT set (but I solo'd my hands entirely before the addition of Shell V) and I did him without the +earth resist atma (Dragua hates me. Killed him twice with red proc and neither time did the atma drop)
Body, I split between koios, and the quest in altepa, because the quest is easy, just a bit time consuming, and koios is a joke, but requires a bit of luck to claim because there's usually competition.
Head, I got from Blazing Eruca, but I never solo'd it because it was a pain in the *** to deal with back then. It's probably fairly easy to solo now, though.

Of course, even if you can do them solo, it's always faster to bring a blm with you to proc yellow and up the drop rate.

As for +2s, I'mstill working on that, because I went on break from the game before I got tothe point of getting them easily, and I've found that none of them drop from easily soloable mobs. I'm nnot trying very hard, though. Smiley: laugh
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Reiterpallasch wrote:
Glitterhands wrote:
Am I the only one who clicked on this thread expecting actual baby photos [of Jinte]? o.O

Except if it were baby photos, it would be like looking at before and afters of Michael Jackson. Only instead of turning into a white guy, he changes into a chick!
#8 Aug 21 2012 at 2:41 AM Rating: Good
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Okay, I will have to work a bit on AF3 +1 then. I don't think I will be able to solo much so will have to work on it with groups, but I don't mind that.

THe items I have is basically a few MNK pieces (really wish we could use more of the items like Brego gloves, but it does seem a lot better now than it used to be when PUPs were apparently mages heh).

Head: Ocelomeh
Body: Juogi
Hands: Aurore
Legs: Aurore
Feet: Aurore
Weapon: Brawny Adargas

The rest is basically just things I scraped together for leveling and haven't really switched out because I can't decide if I want to sell a few MNK things to get better PUP accessories. Will have to see what I do.

Also, thanks a lot for all the answers and help guys, really appreciate it.

Oh, btw what attachments do you guys use for WHM auto?

EDIT: Btw, Is Windbuffet anything for PUP? After thinking about it a little I am assuming for WS in that case?

Edited, Aug 21st 2012 5:16am by Belcrono

Edited, Aug 23rd 2012 7:08am by Belcrono
#9 Aug 24 2012 at 2:39 PM Rating: Good
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Belcrono wrote:
Okay, I will have to work a bit on AF3 +1 then. I don't think I will be able to solo much so will have to work on it with groups, but I don't mind that.

THe items I have is basically a few MNK pieces (really wish we could use more of the items like Brego gloves, but it does seem a lot better now than it used to be when PUPs were apparently mages heh).

Head: Ocelomeh
Body: Juogi
Hands: Aurore
Legs: Aurore
Feet: Aurore
Weapon: Brawny Adargas

The rest is basically just things I scraped together for leveling and haven't really switched out because I can't decide if I want to sell a few MNK things to get better PUP accessories. Will have to see what I do.

Also, thanks a lot for all the answers and help guys, really appreciate it.

Oh, btw what attachments do you guys use for WHM auto?

EDIT: Btw, Is Windbuffet anything for PUP? After thinking about it a little I am assuming for WS in that case?


I've never really been a fan of juogi, tbh, but that has more basis in when it came out and the stats available to us at that time than it holds any water today. That said, as someone else with mnk and pup, a lot of the gear does translate, though not all of it (my pup and mnk share a bit more in common, gear wise, than my mnk and my war, but it's mostly accessories). That aside...

The Ocelomeh headpiece should hold you over until you get cirque +2. How the 1% haste and 12 Dex compare to the 2% double attack is mostly situational based on how much total double attack you have. The Juogi vs Aurore body is a similar case of total crit/DA deciding the matter, but really, aurore's not going to top juogi. ****, once you're properly up to date with gear, Juogi can compete pretty evenly with farsetto+2; each being stronger in different situations. Pink gloves will hold you over until you get pantin dastanas or cirque guanti +1 (ideally you want both +2, because each is stronger than the other in depending on which puppet you're using and what you're fighting). Likewise, Aurore brais will do you fine until you spend a few hours trading sausages to get your cirque legs +1'd (seriously, the trickiest part of pup legs is getting the bastion credits to get the nq in the first place Smiley: laugh).

I'm also curious as to what accessories you're using. To kind of give you an idea, my current TP set (which is mostly from back when +2s weren't very common, with a few newer pieces interspersed, due to me being relatively infrequent in my play since then) and the planned upgrades I'm very slowly working towards:
Head: Cirque Capello +1 (+2)
Neck: Cirque Necklace (Still debating whether I want to get a rancor collar or not, and if I did, whether I'd use it for pup, since most of what I dowith pup is solo play or lowman; also note that if I know I'll be at high haste, I'll use chiv chain instead.)
Ears: Kemas/Brutal (Until I get around to finishing WotG and get the regain earring)
Body: Cirque Farsetto +1 (+2, and eventually maybe Juogi, depending on pricing and math)
Hands: Pantin Dastanas and Cirque Guanti +1 (both +2'd; again, each is useful, pantin for valoredge/sharpshot, cirque for stormwaker or when the pet is not important)
Rings: Rajas and Blood Ring (I'd be better off replacing blood with keen ring, but I've been saved by the resists on the blood ring a few times when I solo, and the difference is rather minuscule. I also forget to pick one up constantly, and I really just like how blood ring looks. Smiley: lol Don't copy me on that, though, I'm a bad influence there)
Back: Vellaunus' Mantle or Pantin Mantle depending (I use pantin for ws, and occasionally if I'm using valoredge. I'm equally wary of Rancor Mantle as I am of the collar, because that DT +10% is a pretty hefty cost to pay when you're the only melee. I'll probably get both eventually, for min-max sake, but I'm not gonna be happy about it. Also keep in mind that much to our ire, pup was excluded from Atheling Mantle. Smiley: glare)
Belt: Cirque Sash (Only improvement is twilight belt; whether or not moepapa would be an improvement would depend on what SE does with valoredge/sharpshot in the future, and if you can cap haste with the 5%, and not need the 6~7% from cirque/twilight)
Legs: Cirque Pantaloni +2 (These are really tough to beat. They're on par with pretty much every other option we have, save Thaumas Kecks, which kind of dance all over everyone's best haste pants, but those aren't exactly easy to get. Euxine +3 are fairly close to cirque, though, and pull ahead at higher haste)
Feet: Aurore Gaiters (because there's really ******* nothing easily attainable that's better to TP in, even cirque scarpe +1, which I have.

As for Windbuffet? Not really since we need a haste belt to cap gear haste. Honestly, just looking at it, windbuffet doesn't seem like it'd be good for any job, due to how basically every job needs a haste belt to cap gear haste. If you can cap gear haste without a belt, maybe, but otherwise...
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Reiterpallasch wrote:
Glitterhands wrote:
Am I the only one who clicked on this thread expecting actual baby photos [of Jinte]? o.O

Except if it were baby photos, it would be like looking at before and afters of Michael Jackson. Only instead of turning into a white guy, he changes into a chick!
#11 Aug 25 2012 at 8:18 PM Rating: Good
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Zelduh wrote:
Wow, the supposed self-proclaimed God of puppetmastery's gear sucks ***. No wonder you think PUP sucks, your gear is abyssal. Next time gear the job properly before you badmouth it. Your crappy performance =/= the performance of every other PUP in the world. Some people actually gear the job, Jinte.

My gear and the fact that I'm not an elite endgamer does not change the fact that my math is right. I have never once claimed to have amazing gear, and I quite often state that I don't play regularly any more, and that I haven't for several years now. I've never been at the top of the line in terms of gear quality, and I never will be. That does not, in any way, change the fact that my math is unshakably correct.

Until you can explain to me how an opinion suddenly outweighs math, which you won't be able to do, I suggest you kindly shut the **** up, and get back to learning your basic times tables.
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Reiterpallasch wrote:
Glitterhands wrote:
Am I the only one who clicked on this thread expecting actual baby photos [of Jinte]? o.O

Except if it were baby photos, it would be like looking at before and afters of Michael Jackson. Only instead of turning into a white guy, he changes into a chick!
#13 Aug 25 2012 at 10:19 PM Rating: Decent
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Lady Jinte wrote:

My gear and the fact that I'm not an elite endgamer does not change the fact that my math is right. I have never once claimed to have amazing gear, and I quite often state that I don't play regularly any more, and that I haven't for several years now. I've never been at the top of the line in terms of gear quality, and I never will be. That does not, in any way, change the fact that my math is unshakably correct.

Until you can explain to me how an opinion suddenly outweighs math, which you won't be able to do, I suggest you kindly shut the @#%^ up, and get back to learning your basic times tables.


Jinte!! How could you not have known that FFXI GEAR makes you BETTER than other ppl!?

See me. Pup isn't even my main job, but I have Kenkonken(test server) so I'm better than every other pup.
Check out my sweet pup set

I'm way better pup than you!! You should just quit the game now of embarrassment, and don't go outside because there's a giant sign above you wherever you go which says

"I SUCK AT FFXI SO PLEASE KILL ME!"

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#15 Aug 26 2012 at 12:32 AM Rating: Good
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Reiterpallasch wrote:
Glitterhands wrote:
Am I the only one who clicked on this thread expecting actual baby photos [of Jinte]? o.O

Except if it were baby photos, it would be like looking at before and afters of Michael Jackson. Only instead of turning into a white guy, he changes into a chick!
#17 Aug 26 2012 at 11:44 AM Rating: Excellent
Zelduh wrote:
Calm down bro, don't have a heart attack on account of your sick obsession with nonexistant math. You have issues. If you don't use PUP for anything you don't have the right to say anything about it. Your math is theoretical, it's not actual. Try using the job for once with proper gear. Whatever your IRL issues are it isn't an excuse to have such horrible gear and 0 knowledge of proper gear or game mechanics and calling yourself a PUP. You're not a PUP.


so now math is theoretical?

what happened to this forums since i last checked in :c
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#18 Aug 26 2012 at 1:02 PM Rating: Good
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You know, Zelduh... Jinte can be wordy, can be quite egocentric, and certainly has a very strong personality. Her PUP gear happens to be on the low end, too, but IT MAKES SENSE. I'll never condemn those players who has less time, or not many LSmates that can help, or whatever, if they use the gear available to them that makes sense (but seriously, Jinte, a STR ring would be more useful than that, you know this, and the 5-6 STR ones are dirt cheap).

Yet, despite all of that, the math-supported claims she makes ARE TRUE. You don't need to have the most perfect gear to make those claims, heck, you don't even have to play the **** game. The way the game works is mostly known, and with the wide gaps in performance (in zerg fests) between PUP and the heavy hitters, the small nuances not fully known won't change the result at all.

Now, if you want to argue with equipment, here is mine. Before Neo-Nyzul appeared, my PUP gear was almost perfect, barring the weapon, as I have STR Oxyuranis instead of Empy or Mythic. Well, with all of that, and knowing how to play the job, I happened to be as PUP on several VW fights, against Kaggen, Gaunab and Akvan, specifically. And while I did pretty well, according to an external parse (outdamaging SAMs, NINs, some obviously lazy/bad DRKs, etc.), I had to give my 100%, and I was clearly outparsed by the well-geared heavy hitters. And that's on fights that, even if not turtly, were NOT zerg fights at all, as we lacked many buffs etc. So, no, not even with good gear can PUP destroy other DDs, and much less come close in zerged fights.


Finally, mathematics are, by definition, theoretical. Duh!
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#19 Aug 26 2012 at 3:01 PM Rating: Excellent
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TaimMeich wrote:
You know, Zelduh... Jinte can be wordy, can be quite egocentric, and certainly has a very strong personality. Her PUP gear happens to be on the low end, too, but IT MAKES SENSE. I'll never condemn those players who has less time, or not many LSmates that can help, or whatever, if they use the gear available to them that makes sense (but seriously, Jinte, a STR ring would be more useful than that, you know this, and the 5-6 STR ones are dirt cheap).

Yet, despite all of that, the math-supported claims she makes ARE TRUE. You don't need to have the most perfect gear to make those claims, heck, you don't even have to play the **** game. The way the game works is mostly known, and with the wide gaps in performance (in zerg fests) between PUP and the heavy hitters, the small nuances not fully known won't change the result at all.

Now, if you want to argue with equipment, here is mine. Before Neo-Nyzul appeared, my PUP gear was almost perfect, barring the weapon, as I have STR Oxyuranis instead of Empy or Mythic. Well, with all of that, and knowing how to play the job, I happened to be as PUP on several VW fights, against Kaggen, Gaunab and Akvan, specifically. And while I did pretty well, according to an external parse (outdamaging SAMs, NINs, some obviously lazy/bad DRKs, etc.), I had to give my 100%, and I was clearly outparsed by the well-geared heavy hitters. And that's on fights that, even if not turtly, were NOT zerg fights at all, as we lacked many buffs etc. So, no, not even with good gear can PUP destroy other DDs, and much less come close in zerged fights.


Finally, mathematics are, by definition, theoretical. Duh!

I hate to be this guy, however...

In the TP set you have on that page, the bruiser earring is essentially useless. The H2H skill is not taking you up a damage tier, unless the equation for H2H damage has changed recently. You'd probably be much better off with an attack earring.

I also think that Cirque +2 may beat the Oce. Headpiece in that gear set, even considering the set effect. Though I'd take that with a grain of salt as I'm much too lazy to do math.

Edited, Aug 26th 2012 4:08pm by Dragonmasterxxxx

Edited, Aug 26th 2012 4:09pm by Dragonmasterxxxx
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#20 Aug 26 2012 at 3:05 PM Rating: Good
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Dragonmasterxxxx wrote:
I hate to be this guy, however...

In that TP set you have on that page, the bruiser earring is essentially useless. The H2H skill is not taking you up a damage tier, unless the equation for H2H damage has changed recently. You'd probably be much better off with an attack earring.


You are totally right. I don't know when I realized that, but I used that set for a long time before switching back to Kemas. I didn't update the ffxiah set, but I'm pretty sure I was using that for a long time anyway, so the criticism is spot on.

Quote:
I also think that Cirque +2 may beat the Oce. Headpiece in that gear set, even considering the set effect. Though I'd take that with a grain of salt as I'm much too lazy to do math.


Nah, in this case, the Toci's + Ocelomeh +1 outparses and "outmaths" (using Motenten's spreadsheet) Cirque +2. What's more surprising, even NQ Ocelomeh head + Toci's is better, with 24% uncapped haste.

Edited, Aug 27th 2012 12:03am by TaimMeich
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#21 Aug 26 2012 at 4:24 PM Rating: Good
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Zelduh wrote:
Calm down bro, don't have a heart attack on account of your sick obsession with nonexistant math. You have issues. If you don't use PUP for anything you don't have the right to say anything about it. Your math is theoretical, it's not actual. Try using the job for once with proper gear. Whatever your IRL issues are it isn't an excuse to have such horrible gear and 0 knowledge of proper gear or game mechanics and calling yourself a PUP. You're not a PUP.

I'm pretty sure not playing is an acceptable excuse for not having up-to-date gear. Kind of hard to update your gear when you're account isn't even activated. Further, it doesn't matter whether my math is theoretical or actual, because it uses the same exact mathematical equations that the game uses, in the same exact way. The only difference is that mine's posted in a forum, not showing in your chat log. I also love that you didn't even own up to the mistake about the ring.

If you seriously think I know nothing about proper gear or game mechanics, then you're one of the most unintelligent people I've ever had the displeasure of crossing words with. Otherwise, just need to stop trolling, because it was never good quality trolling anyway, and now it's just pathetic and distracting, like a mosquito bite.

KaynofTitan wrote:
so now math is theoretical?

what happened to this forums since i last checked in :c

We got an infusion of ******** from somewhere.

TaimMeich wrote:
You know, Zelduh... Jinte can be wordy, can be quite egocentric, and certainly has a very strong personality. Her PUP gear happens to be on the low end, too, but IT MAKES SENSE. I'll never condemn those players who has less time, or not many LSmates that can help, or whatever, if they use the gear available to them that makes sense (but seriously, Jinte, a STR ring would be more useful than that, you know this, and the 5-6 STR ones are dirt cheap).
Better than an HP ring, sure, but I'm not using lolbloodbeadring. The difference between 5 acc and 5 STR is fairly wash for most of the stuff I use pup for, and the extra resists have come in handy from time to time. Besides, the correct answer is Epona, which I'm working on. Smiley: lol

Dragonmasterxxxx wrote:
I hate to be this guy, however...

In the TP set you have on that page, the bruiser earring is essentially useless. The H2H skill is not taking you up a damage tier, unless the equation for H2H damage has changed recently. You'd probably be much better off with an attack earring.

I also think that Cirque +2 may beat the Oce. Headpiece in that gear set, even considering the set effect. Though I'd take that with a grain of salt as I'm much too lazy to do math.

Oce+1 + Toci's:
STR+13 DEX+26 Haste+7%
Accuracy+10 (+23) Attack+10 (+16~17)
Double Attack+3% Triple Attack+3%

Cirque Head/Body+2:
DEX+10 Haste+9% Hand-to-Hand skill +5
Accuracy+20 (+29) Attack+20 (+25)
Double Attack +3%
Set Proc Rate +2% (total: 3~4%) (I can't remember the exact pattern it follows)

With the rest of the set taken into account, the biggest part is that with cirque head/body, you still can't give up haste boots for something better (like cirque boots) because that would leave you at 24% haste. Any pair of 2% haste boots (of which we have a thousand) would obviously hit hard cap, unlike oce/toci's, which only hits the soft cap. However, that haste rounding and boot tidbit aside, with these four pieces, it basically comes down to this:

STR+13 DEX+16 Triple Attack+3% vs Atk+8~9 Acc+6, and the slightly increased set proc, since at 99 with 8 merits, the 5 skill from the head alone won't push you up a damage tier (However, bruiser's and capello together actually would). Without any question,Oce+1/Toci's wins, compared to double cirque, because the set proc is so low either way that it can't negate the boost of the STR/DEX/TA. Even if the h2h skill boosted you up a tier, the 13 str is effectively 2-3 fSTR, which would drown out the dmg+1. Thus, it basically comes down to the Cirque letting you wear slightly stronger boots, and which boots would be needed to overcome the difference.

So, bringing the boots back in,
Athos are DEX+10 Acc+5 (+10) Haste+3%, and of the options to replace them without losing capped haste, you have:
Mustela boots, Savateur's Gaiters, and Usukane Sune-Ate (none of the others have any chance of topping athos, realistically), so:
Mustela:
STR+6 DEX+6 Haste+2%
Savateur's: Acc+8 Kick Attacks +3% Haste+2%
Usukane: Acc+7 Atk+7 Store TP+7 Haste+2% (TP/hit 5.8 -> 6.1, which does shave 1 hit off of the amount needed to reach 100% TP)

Mustela negates some of the str (13-6 = 7 str lost) and some of the dex (16+10 = 26-6 = 20 dex lost, still increasing the total net loss), , but also costs acc, switching the advantage of acc to Oce/toci (6-10 = -4 +3 = -1, meaining oce/toci now have +1 acc), So mustela won't cut it.

Savateur's increases the difference in acc to 14, and partially negates the loss of the triple attack (KA is only 1/4 as effective as TA, because it is, at most, one extra hit per round, while TA can reach up to 4 extra hits, because it can proc on each punch individually). Combined with the extra set proc it might negate the loss of damage from TA, but the huge difference in STR/DEX would still have oce/toci's pulling ahead.

Thus, we've got usukane. It ups the atk/acc differences to be more competitive at 15~16 and 13 respectively, and also shaves off a hit to 100% TP. In the other two cases, the difference that going from the soft to hard gear haste caps (ie: that extra 1% to account for rounding) isn't enough to sway anything, but here, combined with the store TP, I would wager that it basically puts the two on par with one another, with oce/toci/athos pulling ahead against higher defense stuff where the str/dex are more valuable towards increasing your fSTR and dDEX, while cirque/usukane would pull ahead on lower defense stuff where the str/dex are less valuable due to lower VIT/AGI to deal with. Either way, that's probably a wash.

Honestly, the difference between either set up, regardless of which boots you use, is fairly minuscule. I couldn't give an exact difference in damage without a specified target, though.
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Reiterpallasch wrote:
Glitterhands wrote:
Am I the only one who clicked on this thread expecting actual baby photos [of Jinte]? o.O

Except if it were baby photos, it would be like looking at before and afters of Michael Jackson. Only instead of turning into a white guy, he changes into a chick!
#22 Aug 26 2012 at 5:43 PM Rating: Decent
KaynofTitan wrote:
Zelduh wrote:
Calm down bro, don't have a heart attack on account of your sick obsession with nonexistant math. You have issues. If you don't use PUP for anything you don't have the right to say anything about it. Your math is theoretical, it's not actual. Try using the job for once with proper gear. Whatever your IRL issues are it isn't an excuse to have such horrible gear and 0 knowledge of proper gear or game mechanics and calling yourself a PUP. You're not a PUP.


so now math is theoretical?

what happened to this forums since i last checked in :c


Zelduh has been kind of trashing pup rep by making wild claims without any way of backing it up. Cementing the stereo-type. Jinte made it her personal mission to prove s/he with cold hard facts. You know that pesky theoretical math gets in Zelduh way. So Zelduh lashes out at Jinte any shape way or form s/he gets.

Anywho, a seldom look at option is dance shoes from ANNM. Not much better then aurore but you can get pet bonus stats.*shrug*
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#23 Aug 26 2012 at 6:30 PM Rating: Good
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TP feet options for PUP are really crappy. I was really lucky to get Athos in my first Lancing Lamorak set, otherwise I could still be wearing pink feet (thay're not that bad, actually, other than the uglyness), or either using or saving for a pair of Savateur.

And Jinte, what kind of content do you do to need the 5 acc for the ring? PUP has auto capped acc on mostly everything except endgame mobs, bur 5 extra STR is 1 more damage and some extra att, and that's useful even against Dynamis EP. Of course Epona is the superior option, but in the mean time a STR ring (even a cheap and multipurpose one like Spiral) should be much better. Well, "much better" in the sense that it will do something, there's nothing you will able to do with it that you couldn't without, of course.
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#24 Aug 26 2012 at 6:37 PM Rating: Good
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TaimMeich wrote:
TP feet options for PUP are really crappy. I was really lucky to get Athos in my first Lancing Lamorak set, otherwise I could still be wearing pink feet (thay're not that bad, actually, other than the uglyness), or either using or saving for a pair of Savateur.

And Jinte, what kind of content do you do to need the 5 acc for the ring? PUP has auto capped acc on mostly everything except endgame mobs, bur 5 extra STR is 1 more damage and some extra att, and that's useful even against Dynamis EP. Of course Epona is the superior option, but in the mean time a STR ring (even a cheap and multipurpose one like Spiral) should be much better. Well, "much better" in the sense that it will do something, there's nothing you will able to do with it that you couldn't without, of course.

Mostly soloing NMs and ****. And also, like I said, part of it is just how cool the ring looks despite not being terrible (invoking the law of ugliness here: the better the stats, the worse the item looks). Smiley: laugh

Besides, 5 STR giving 1 fSTR for 1 DMG isn't exactly something you can notice without a long term parse, and even then, isn't very obvious, so I've got other, far more obvious things to prioritize before getting a STR ring. That, and I'm still old fashioned enough that TPing in a STR ring feels ******* dirty, otherwise I'd TP in my spiral ring and hate myself.
____________________________
Theytak, Siren Server, FFXI [Retired]
Amerida Baker, Balmung Server, FFXIV
LOLGAXE IS MY ETERNAL RIVAL!

Reiterpallasch wrote:
Glitterhands wrote:
Am I the only one who clicked on this thread expecting actual baby photos [of Jinte]? o.O

Except if it were baby photos, it would be like looking at before and afters of Michael Jackson. Only instead of turning into a white guy, he changes into a chick!
#26 Aug 26 2012 at 7:01 PM Rating: Good
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54 posts
Thank you for all that hard work, Jinte. Though I'll be honest, I started skimming quickly after coming to the realization that I was pretty **** wrong. XP


I'll completely accept that my assumption on that was wrong though, and that is not only because of my miss thinking that the head would push us up a damage tier but also because I did not exactly mean replacing Toci's with the +2 body, only the head.

A very informative post, though. If I somehow find reason to come back I shall keep it in mind. However, at this point I'll admit I've lost interest as most of my goals seem much further away and I can't even find joy in the gearing of my favorite job anymore. The latter of which can be seen quite well if you look at my gear on FFXIAH.

Huh, this posts seems somewhat useless now that I read over it... ^.^; Heh.

Edit: Zelduh, just shut up already. You're causing more trouble for the PUP community than anything else and that's easily apparent just from my small amount of lurking.

Edited, Aug 26th 2012 8:03pm by Dragonmasterxxxx
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