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#102 May 10 2004 at 3:15 PM Rating: Decent
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Don't toss your Elvaan Red Mage out just yet man, push up to 41 when you get Refresh and Convert, then grab two electrum rings, BAM, problem solved. ^^

I have gotten tons of compliments about how I play RDM, and since I hit 41, I don't think I've had to rest once. Convert and Refresh are just that good. You should be able to get from 31 to 41 in a weekend if you get in with a good party. Just try it and see.

-Tim
#103 May 10 2004 at 3:28 PM Rating: Decent
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kevinsal: Soloing xp and soloing farming are not the same thing.
@ 52 it takes about one hour to make 300 xp off of easy prey (yes I did this while lfp the other day >.>)

Now I don't nomally post on these forums so no flaming the newbie please. I do read them almost everyday and those of you answering questions on this post seem intelligent enough to take me seriously instead of giving me crap. The gaping hole I noticed in this fairly well thought out suggestion on RDM as a class is RDM/DRK. Yes I am 53 and I still play this if my party says it's ok over /SMN. The reason I chose RDM to begin with is that I have no interest whatsoever in being a pure mage, that's not what I pay money for; my WHM and BLM are both lvl 1. With Valkyrie's Mask and the added str I do comparable melee damage to, PLD minus en dmg which may or may not be any great feat, but most RDM can't say the same. Not as much of an mp bonus, but it is an increase in int. All of my gear is towards +mp, though airspirit's discussion about +int +mnd gear has me reconsidering that to a point. A hume rdm with the best gear and all of his/her spells can still suck. Beyond statistics it takes a certain amount of skill to play this job well compared to most other jobs. I don't see how you can totally discount DRK as a viable sub for people who take the time to play the job well.
I'm going to update my profile now, except for skill caps because I keep forgetting to write those down, and I glady welcome any suggestions on gear. Over the next 7 levels I plan on buying Wise Wizard's Anelace, an elemental staff if I can (this part of the discussion was also very eye opening to me), a cotehardie to switch out with my AF, MC and then Darksteel Buckler, Phantom or Bat Earrings, questing a Star Neckalce, and hopefully getting to do BCNM 50 and getting a Jungle Stone (1mil on my server ;_;). I admit, my debuffs don't take on Beetles (the only thing I've been fighting lately -_-) very often, but even with a blm/whm eleseal they still don't half the time, so perhaps that's not fully something I can control without being filthy disgusting rich. I also think I will level my dagger more now and use that when I /SMN and do crap damage.
I appreciate the time you put into this topic, I find it disappointing how many RDM out there just plain suck. However, I hope no one is discouraged at lower levels, thinking such things as "Oh no I picked Elvaan RDM I'm going to suck; I should start over!" If you play well you can make up for most of the class weaknesses. Otherwise you wouldn't see the rare- even-now Galka BLM, WHM, SMN, RDM, walking around in full AF or better. Keep in mind that it is a game, and even if there is a "better way" you can make any(nearly) way work if you try hard enough and get good equipment etc. You can make any job cookie-cutter, but RDM is one that doesn't have to be as a job such as PLD does.

Edited, Mon May 10 16:29:20 2004 by Halion
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#104 May 10 2004 at 3:49 PM Rating: Default
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Quote:
Yes, finally someone says that a RDM can Solo. Everywhere I have seen it states after lvl 15+ you must party to gain lvls.



.... god people are clueless.
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#105 May 10 2004 at 4:45 PM Rating: Excellent
Smurv wrote:
Quote:
Yes, finally someone says that a RDM can Solo. Everywhere I have seen it states after lvl 15+ you must party to gain lvls.



.... god people are clueless.


Smiley: cry
#106 May 10 2004 at 4:56 PM Rating: Default
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woohoo for dancing heroes.. wonder if anything like that happens in CoH ;p
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WOW
85 rogue 85 hunter 85 shaman 85 priest 85 mage
#107 May 10 2004 at 4:57 PM Rating: Decent
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I disapprove of caster RDMs (other than tarus) at all levels: this is correct. If you are nuking then you are going to end up resting ... this either slows down your chain or you aren't going to be properly supporting your team through dispel/refresh. Further, I disapprove of STRICT caster RDMs because it limits your options in emergency situations in the same way that being a Taru does.

Picture yourself inside of Boyahda fighting Processionaire (big bad nasty crawlers that you take on in the 65 range) and you get an add. Are you going to let your BLM sleep it? If you do then you aren't doing your job since their sleep will wear off insanely fast. So you cast sleep on it and go back about your business ... when it wakes it kills you in four shots ... why is this? You neglected to put on heavy armor and if you are a taru you don't have the HPs or VIT to stand up as long. Unfortunately, Sleep II generates a ton of hate ... even if your PLD throws a flash on the sleeping mob for when it wakes you still have an even shot of it disemboweling you when it wakes ... not a pretty thing.

The fact of the matter is that when a Hume or Mithra is compared to a Taru in this situation (as tested in a dual red mage party just yesterday) the tarus not only have significantly less HP to play with but also take around 20% more damage per hit with identical gear. Further, your spell interruption is tied directly to your damage/hp ratio. The more damage you take proportionate to the amount of HPmax you have the greater chance you will have of interruption. Factor in the lower HP of tarus (about 25% lower) with the higher damage they take and it makes them much less suitable in emergency situations. Their only saving grace here is that their sleep cast has less chance of being resisted. On the flipside of this an elvaan can take the damage much more readily than a hume or mithra, but is much less likely to land the spell in the first place.

On a similar point, red mages are immensely suitable for playing as swap tanks or emergency tanks in parties as needed, however it is expensive in MP and requires that you have gear to support it. While a Hume/Mithra (especially elvaan) can take the damage better in these situations a Taru can not. If your party needs fast and heavy healing you will usually find that it is very easy even with the best of tanks to rip hate off of them. If your paladin is near death for some reason (heavy WS) or the mob decided it had a taste for juicy mage it is your responsibility to take the hate yourself and hold it until the rest of the group can take it back. This is pointless if you are unable to survive the time that it takes for them to fix the emergency.

The reason that I look down on caster RDMs is that they spend inordinate amounts of MP on various offensive measures counting on being able to rest to make it up. That isn't a bad thing if you are fighting high level IT mobs that allow you that pause time between matches (though you will most of the time still suffer an efficiency loss compared to mass VT chaining) ... but as soon as an emergency such as those listed above happens your chain is dead or your party is dead because either way you won't have MPs to continue. If you're lucky, you won't have burnt your convert yet allowing you to save the day. If not you will have problems. It is nice to think that you can be a caster and that's it, but it really takes away options that you could put into play if things come up that other more flexible mages can use to help their parties. Even those that just find themselves using elemental magic should still be up front though, as forsaking free damage on the mob is NEVER a good thing unless it will cause you certain death.

As for solo play, it will take you until the 50s and a helping of phalanx before you can solo efficiently. In the 60s I can usually pull around 1K/hr (nothing compared to a group but better than nothing sometimes). Unfortunately at many early levels your weaponry is so gimped and your lack of MPs so painful that it makes soloing very dangerous.
#108 May 10 2004 at 5:47 PM Rating: Default
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Quote:
The reason that I look down on caster RDMs is that they spend inordinate amounts of MP on various offensive measures counting on being able to rest to make it up. That isn't a bad thing if you are fighting high level IT mobs that allow you that pause time between matches (though you will most of the time still suffer an efficiency loss compared to mass VT chaining)


you asked for it >.<

why do you assume that caster rdm's do that? i rarely waste mp nuking unless it's on a MB, i don't see a rdm as any type of damage dealer in a party. i see myself as a support caster, there to keep exp flowing. I play my role as a full caster stayin back and debuffing mob + buffing party & healing when necessary. I also MB now and then but it's not high priority and i dont really care if i miss it. Since i am taru i can chain vt/low IT's for a longer period of time than you and be more efficient w/ my MP by playing full caster.

you assume that because taru rdm's have more mp they are cocky and gonna try to take on high IT's? think about it, we will want to use our MP efficiently and that will mean chaining vt's/low IT's for fast kills, just like you do as a melee rdm. In the same type of chaining vt/low IT groups as you talk about a taru rdm is more efficient than a hume or mithra can possibly hope to be.

you have me on the swap tanking thing, i would never try doing that. But imho that isn't a rdm's purpose in a group, your purpose is to debuff the mob down to your groups level and buff your group with refresh and haste.

Quote:
So you cast sleep on it and go back about your business ... when it wakes it kills you in four shots ... why is this? You neglected to put on heavy armor and if you are a taru you don't have the HPs or VIT to stand up as long.


no because i would have phalanx + stoneskin + blink cast on me after casting sleep 2. I always put those on me so if it guns for me i try to sleep again if i dont get it off one of the tanks get it off me.. Only time i've ever been killed is on a surprise add after a convert from an undead nearby in gustav.. and that bomb that i talked about earlier. You're an idiot if you dont stoneskin/phalanx/blink after a sleep, especially a taru.
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FFXI : Valor LS
75 blm / 68brd / 38whm / 30rng / 75 mnk / 37war / 53 thf / 37nin / 12rdm rank 7
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#109 May 10 2004 at 5:47 PM Rating: Decent
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The reason RDM/DRK was left out is that in many ways it plays similar to a RDM/BLM except with lower MP, higher HP, and fewer utility spells at the benefit of having a small edge in damage. The only real benefit to this combo is for getting aspir ten levels earlier, or for tarus who want to be able to take front line positions easier. For all general purposes, though, there are no real benefits post-50 (when Aspir can be gained via BLM) except for Tarus ... and even then the VIT difference will still keep them from doing any swap-play up front. I don't know of many situations that this would be really beneficial over a different combination ... aspir is really the one reason you'd want to do this unless you're a taru. It works in many of the same ways as RDM/WAR where you lose more than you gain relatively, except that this doesn't gimp you like RDM/WAR does.
#110 May 10 2004 at 6:08 PM Rating: Good
Finally, dissention. As I said previously, this should not be stickied because of the fact that it guides people into a certain direction based on the original poster's opinion on how the class should be played. Rather than have a post that is telling you the poster's opinion on the most efficient type of RDM player, a stickied post should give you all of the options available to you, or at least the most popular. I have seen posts in this thread with players saying they want to start over and are doubting themselves over this post. That is not what a stickied guide should do.

Smurv, you yourself requested to have this post stickied yet you are arguing with the statements made by the poster, which contain the same information as the original post. You yourself disagree in that this is not the most efficient way to play, and yet it is presented that it is. The fact that it has been stickied by the powers that be, add to the effect that readers believe this is the 'gospel'.

Once again I must reiterate that this is a very opinion driven, non-neutral post, and I urge readers to take it with a grain of salt. This is most definitely not a tablet written by the final fantasy gods "Thou shalt play this way". By all means take pieces of this post and adapt it to your playstyle, however, Red Mage need not be played exactly as stated, nor is it definitely the most 'efficient' way.

Edited, Mon May 10 19:08:47 2004 by CrimsonMagician
#111 May 10 2004 at 6:18 PM Rating: Default
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it's an awesome post, and a good debate but slowly i'm regretting getting it stickied :| ( at least it hasn't gotten to a flame war yet and hopefully the debating stays un-hostile) /sigh
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FFXI : Valor LS
75 blm / 68brd / 38whm / 30rng / 75 mnk / 37war / 53 thf / 37nin / 12rdm rank 7
WOW
85 rogue 85 hunter 85 shaman 85 priest 85 mage
#112 May 10 2004 at 6:23 PM Rating: Good
Well, as I've said from the beginning. It's a good post. It's just misleading. You know, Hitler was a good speaker, but he misled alot of people. Not comparing FFXI tactics to genocide, but you get the point.
#113 May 10 2004 at 6:25 PM Rating: Default
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airspirit is a ****, i get it.

:p
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FFXI : Valor LS
75 blm / 68brd / 38whm / 30rng / 75 mnk / 37war / 53 thf / 37nin / 12rdm rank 7
WOW
85 rogue 85 hunter 85 shaman 85 priest 85 mage
#114 May 10 2004 at 6:26 PM Rating: Good
Smurv wrote:
airspirit is a ****, i get it.

:p


Well, no, that's not what I meant. But now that you mention it....
#115 May 10 2004 at 7:52 PM Rating: Decent
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Smurv, I wasn't referring to you. Many red mages I've seen actually believe it is their job to toss a few refreshes then chainnuke until they have to rest. I've seen this a number of times and it makes baby jesus wail.

Most of the threads you find here referring to caster RDMs refer to those that just stand back and chaincast. That is what I mean by "caster RDMs": people that treat the job like a BLM with refresh. Alternately, you can play the class without melee in a similar fasion and sub in a nuke or two instead and come out pretty even if you can time your resting just perfect, which is what I believe you are referring to.

When I talk about tarus being more geared for bigger game, though, I am referring to the longer chain times allowed letting them use more of their voluminous MP reserves each fight while still preserving chaining. It isn't about being cocky, it is using your abilities to their fullest.
#116 May 10 2004 at 7:59 PM Rating: Default
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i've also seen melee rdms who just refresh and cast enspells on themselves while whacking the mob. leaving debuffs to whm & blm. and throwing dispels / nukes out whenever.. to quote what a guy said on survivor the other night(nothing was on tv so i actually watched the finale of it.. first time i watched survivor since the first season) anyways the quote is: "if you live in a glass house, don't throw rocks". You're saying caster rdms only cast nukes and waste their mp.. what about pure melee rdms who only melee and dont cast spells? :p
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FFXI : Valor LS
75 blm / 68brd / 38whm / 30rng / 75 mnk / 37war / 53 thf / 37nin / 12rdm rank 7
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85 rogue 85 hunter 85 shaman 85 priest 85 mage
#117 May 10 2004 at 9:38 PM Rating: Decent
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It depends on the party, for me. If it's melee heavy and I'm the only mage, I'll stand back and cast. If it's mage heavy, I'll get in and melee. If it's a balanced party with one of each mage, I'll do a balance of both melee and spell. When I come into a party, I'm usually the last one. I know what each job's purpose is in the party, so I can look at what gaps there are and fill them: that's the beauty of the RDM job, that it gives you flexibility and options, whether solo or in a party.
#118 May 10 2004 at 11:11 PM Rating: Decent
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Total kudos to airspirit who has been sticking this thread out like a champ defending his thoughts and the whole time w/o an extremely crude/ offensive comment coming from him. It takes a lot to get ripped by a lot of folks and still stand up for yourself after it all. Just so ya know after reading your post ive changed/ added to half my gear (carrying around extra wand) Added about 8 new macros and revamped my old ones. And im 2 levels away from doing SMN quest (i have WHM sub right now, it helps get parties at low levels. Thanks again. And in my opinion, for all caster-only players, if you didnt want to melee why didnt you take BLM or WHM? althought the pimp hat IS tempting.
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#119 May 10 2004 at 11:15 PM Rating: Default
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Quote:
for all caster-only players, if you didnt want to melee why didnt you take BLM or WHM?


................. because i wanted to play a red mage? meleeing isn't a needed feature of rdm, it's a bonus, you can choose to do it or you can choose not to. i choose not to.
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75 blm / 68brd / 38whm / 30rng / 75 mnk / 37war / 53 thf / 37nin / 12rdm rank 7
WOW
85 rogue 85 hunter 85 shaman 85 priest 85 mage
#120 May 11 2004 at 2:03 AM Rating: Decent
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I started as a hume rdmg. Made it to lv 25. I enjoyed backup healing but my main focus was to be efficient thus planed on subing blk. Yet i became somewhat envious of the mana pool of the taru. My logic was that end game the taru pays for the extra mp w/ less hp and -8strenght = -4 attk. Didn't think that was worth ALOT since i figured the enspells would help. Plus +attk is not that hard to find, therefor closing the small gap maybe? i will definately conceed to the experience of the more seasoned players however there are many contradicting viewpoints on the matter. Making it very hard for me to decide.

I made a taru and got him to blmg lv 14 (going to be rd/blk). Now i am in no way inclined to not being in battle. I MUST BE IN battle (personal preferance plus seems most efficient to me). Considering what i said about the lack of strenght but equall dex compared to hume i was worried about survivability. The taru at 70 will have 4 less vit than hume. Also does not seem terribly important seeing as how we should not be getting hit anyways.

So it comes down to hp vs. mp. Sacrifice hp for higher mp pool i considered it an acceptable trade with the following preconcieved notions in mind. MP is more efficient than hp. MORE MP = more CURES.... correct? so aside from getting one shoted your still ahead? At 70 we are talking about a diff of hp vs mp of 210 pt give or take a couple (rounded off... this based off of chart on warcry) bla bla bla more efficent converts and all that ... you have all heard the argument GOD KNOWS i have read them. Also the diff in vit compared to hume is 4 pts. Is that alot? not sure how vit works 1vit = 1dmg? Taru will be = to mithra at 70 in vit although i realize mithra will have a higher evade.

FINAL QUESTION does a taru not also have phalanx, stoneskin, and blink.... help him in both pty and solo? Is the lowered hp really that much of a detriment to fighting toe to toe w/ other rdmg? If i cannot FIGHT i will make a mithra instead of hume. i consider the bonus to hit the determining factor for ME if taru is eliminated as an option. I WANT TO BE A REDMAGE THAT FIGHTS! GOD, PLEASE HELP ME!!!!!!!!

p.s for the record aispirit i think you made an excelent post and to ME it seems to be in sink w/ MY play style i'm just suffering from a case of trying to construct the "ideal" redmage.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

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#121 May 11 2004 at 4:17 AM Rating: Decent
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As a galka RDM, I get better efficiency by medding and hitting MBs instead of meleeing. I keep my sword skill up for 'oh ****' circumstances, but RDM is heavy on Mage, and not so heavy on melee by design. With a B- in sword we're gimped in melee no matter whether you're talking about actual hits or enspell damage since we lack in ATK and ACC both.
#122 May 11 2004 at 5:15 AM Rating: Decent
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So basically you are saying AOE attacks are not an issue because a good DRK/BLM should be able to stun any attacks? Well I wanna know what server you are on where you can rely on your stun casters to catch every attack a mob makes. Because I know on my server just as there are many retarded RDMs, there are also many retarded drks and blms who wouldnt be able to stun if thier lives depended on it. So you are arguing that by being a good RDM is to trust all your pt members to be 100% competent? LOL

Also I would like you to address the issue of why you think it is that JP RDM's lvl 60+ do not melee despite having had the game over a year longer than us NAs and why is it that most high level parties over 60 will more often than not specifically request that you not melee? Hmmmm


As far as the equipment goes, cotehardie over AF tabard?
You've got to be kidding me.

So you're telling me minor stat and MP bonuses are better than a +15 enfeeeble magic skill?

Improves your melee ability? 3 str 2 dex is an improvemnt over -10% interruption and +15 enfeeble skill?

Not to mention the tabard has more def.

So what exactly is the point of having a cotehardie?
Oh yea, if you're a THF with WHM subbed for soloing, cuz thats the only class that wear the **** things.

So you are saying when you are meleeing, it is worth 100k+ to you to give up more def, less interruption, and enfeeble skill for ummm... 3str 2dex?

-----------------------

Basically like I said before there is good info in this post, it would be fair for him to say "Some RDMs choose to play this style: pro-melee. Some RDMs choose to play this style: caster."
But instead airspirit insists that a non-meleeing RDM is wrong and not doing his job properly.

That sir, is quite offensive towards me. I may not agree with your style of play (melee) but I don't go out and write biased guides telling people that what you do is wrong. I don't try to make fact-based claims that meleeing is an incorrect way of playing RDM because even though its not my own personal playstyle, I don't expect everyone else to play my way.


Edited, Tue May 11 06:26:31 2004 by sickeness
#123 May 11 2004 at 10:33 AM Rating: Decent
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I wonder if other jobs have the same sort of arguements in their forums. Do dragoons say, well, i have a CHOICE to bring out my wyvern, but i dont cause i dont like to, its not my style. Or beastmasters that dont tame. Or WHM's that refuse to buy cure spells cause they dont want to worry about other peoples health. Or pallys that only sit in the back with the casters and use cure spells cause they dont like combat either. I figure if something is given to you in your job, use it.
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"When I'm done with it, the mob has to ride the short bus to school."
#124 May 11 2004 at 12:30 PM Rating: Good
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You are 100% correct, Smurv. I don't advocate (by my definition) caster RDMs, but at the same time don't advocate melee RDMs either (ones who do nothing but stab). We should be debuffing and supporting our parties, and if melee gets in the way of that then you are ******** up.

As for the stunning of mob WS, that is usually what I save my TP for. A competent BLM or DRK can knock out over 90% of mob WS through stun ... just like a RDM can knock out WS with flat blade (something that is paying off while soloing Wespes to get my Hornetneedle ... final sting can do over 900 damage in one hit but a good stun takes care of that problem in a flash). It doesn't always work, but then again there aren't too many mobs that have truly dangerous WS either (bombs, dolls, and goblins are the ones I usually am concerned about). It's not hard to take care of these with stuns.

As for the blue cotehardie it gives you STR+4, DEX+3, AGI+4, and INT+3 at the cost of MND-4 and VIT-3 ... and also converts 40 HP to MP. Depending on the group and the mob it makes perfect sense to use it. Some mobs are more resistant to enfeebles causing you to want to use your tabard (and some of these can be overcome by an enfeebling torque) but others will not be letting you get the most out of your melee and elemental performance with the cotehardie. It's all about picking the right gear for the right mob.

Example: cockatrice are moderately evasive in the 60s. If I swap to my Fleuret/Balance Buckler/Rep. Army Mantle I can connect almost every swing while still retaining good performance with spellcasting. In that case the life belt is overboard, so I retain the +2 INT/MND/STR from that and it gives me max efficiency. On the other hand steelshells are extremely easy to land spells on so I'll drop my life belt on for those since they are extremely evasive as well. Processionaire require high mind to cripple them with paralyze, so I do a full gear swap at the beginning of each fight and forsake TP completely. It all depends on the mob and how it reacts to your spells and melee abilities.

The reason most 60+ red mages just stand back and cast is because most are cowardly or haven't levelled their melee at all. They feel there is no point in melee combat because they can't land attacks ... which is due to the fact that they don't melee making it a viscious cycle. Further, many of them are too incompetent to swing and cast at the same time. I can easily forgive tarus for this, but when I see an elvaan red mage that does nothing but cast it makes me wince. You will see some of the best white mages also in melee combat during parts of the battle when they are healing and doing status fixes: they too know that free damage is always good ... though they aren't nearly as effective as a good red mage. It's all about using your abilities to the fullest, and not many are cut out for that.

BTW, please don't give me the JP argument since it is self-defeating. Some of the worst players I've ever encountered were rank 10 JP players with multiple lvl 75 jobs ... time in game does not equate to skill, and neither does the level of some other job. My favorite was the 68THF the other day that couldn't pull off fuidama to save his life. JP players have the same learning curve that NA players do. I had the pleasant experience of having it out with a Rank 9 JP player the other day (one with both PLD and DRK at 75, I may add) that didn't understand how linking in trains works (they link on the first mob and won't magically leave for somebody else if someone pulls a like type in the area) ... a level 75 PLD that doesn't understand aggro ... by your "JP are gods" fallacy that couldn't ever happen but it does.

I run into JP BLMs that melee and never nuke, JP WHMs that do nothing but cast banish, and JP melee that can't renkei even with jobs in the high 60s. Don't use weak and untenable arguments please.
#125 May 11 2004 at 1:05 PM Rating: Decent
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Why does coming to a RDM message board remind me of the three Tarutarus who argue about who is better WHM, BLM or RDM?

When I was approaching level 30, people told me that I would have to stop fighting because my damage would really start to decline. It wasn't all that bad of a decline, and is offset decently well by en- damage.

When I was approaching level 40, people told me that I would have to stop fighting because I would be so busy with refresh, dispel, and enfeebles that I wouldn't have time to do anything else. Somehow I can still pencil fighting in between spells.

When I was approaching level 50, people told me that I would have to stop fighting because every mob had such a horrible AoE attack that it would instantly kill me so I should stay far away. I have yet to see one of these attacks.

People are not all going to play the same. Just because one person may like to melee, it does not mean that there are no merits to playing as a pure caster. And just because one person may like to purely cast, it does not mean that there are no merits to melee.

There are many ways to play Red Mage, and a lot of them are bad. Anyone who goes too far into any extreme, casting too little or casting too much, is a detriment to their party. We do not run up and poke the mob with sharp things, nor do we lay out a bunch of heavy spells. Red Mage is a job about style and finesse. We use our magic to weaken the mob and to strengthen ourselves and party members. We use our skills to make the party run better than if we were not there.

I personally like to be next to the mob fighting. I find it practical as I rarely have time to rest during battle and have an easier time magic bursting and dispelling when I can see the effects. I also have trouble dealing with downtime when I feel that I can be accomplishing something instead of standing around waiting for refresh or an enfeeble to drop. But if it helps the party more for me to not fight the mob, then I will be in the mages corner.

When I party with Japanese players, I have never been told to not fight. In fact, nearly every Japanese RDM that I have played with has meleed as long as there was a WHM in the party. (Even some Tarutarus) And let me head you off at the pass when I say that these are generally Rank 8, 9, and 10 players.

Melee or don't, it is up to you. But either way you play it, you still have to be smart about how you play the job. But I am being far too hopeful when I think that we should turn this thread into a discussion of how to improve the original post, instead of sniping at each other about the details.
#126 May 11 2004 at 1:22 PM Rating: Decent
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265 posts
Airspirit, as you said your posts are based at your observations, then I believe that you are basically right about what you say.

However, can you try make a guide for whm and blm? I know that you don't like to play whm, but you are problably playing blm to use as subjob to rdm...

I am interested to see your opinions and observations about the other mage jobs.
____________________________
http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/profile.xml?27496
RDM 31, BLM 40, WHM 52, WAR 23, MNK 15, THF 15,
SMN 20, BRD 13, BST 11, DRK 36, RGN 10, NIN 12, PLD 7, DRG 13
I just need open SAM job and I will have all jobs.
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