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Why does an RDM cap Ice Magic merits?Follow

#1 Jul 14 2011 at 2:15 PM Rating: Decent
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Having only just got my RDM into a state where he can spend some merits I looked at the Census for an idea of where RDMs usually spend them and found myself wondering why the massive lead Ice Magic Acc. has over every other skill except Convert timer.

Having looked at 'ice' spells I can see one or two I can think of as being useful to cap Acc. for but then all magic schools seem to have their fair share of useful enfeebs, etc.

What is it I'm missing that makes Ice so much more desired than the others?

Edited, Sep 10th 2011 3:54pm by Vlorsutes Lock Thread:
#2 Jul 14 2011 at 2:21 PM Rating: Decent
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Ice has Paralyze, Bind and Blizzard.

Ice just gets the most mileage.
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#3 Jul 14 2011 at 2:32 PM Rating: Good
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Blizzard was/is RDM's most reliable nuke. In Abyssea, it's also RDM's strongest nuke.

Bind used to be vital for NM solos because almost everything was sleep immune, but not bind immune, and the ones susceptible to Gravity usually had increasing resistance so you couldn't rely on it forever anyway.

Nowadays, the older NMs that were vulnerable to Bind are easy for a 90RDM to take on, ice merits or not... and pretty much everything that matters NOW is bind immune. So it doesn't much matter anymore.
#4 Jul 14 2011 at 5:30 PM Rating: Default
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Now a days our MACC merits are pretty mundane, they don't really boost stuff to the point of it mattering. But the reason why Ice is the mantra is pretty much what the above 2 have said.
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#5 Jul 15 2011 at 12:47 AM Rating: Decent
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It did occur to me that Paralyze was Ice and maybe that was one key factor, it didn't though occur to me that Bind was as important as it is (was?).

Thanks for the education. :)
#6 Jul 16 2011 at 2:42 PM Rating: Decent
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Blizzard III/IV
Paralyze
Bind
Enblizzard

And most things we end up fighting are either weak to ice or neutral. Of the available choice's is just the most useful one.
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#7 Jul 17 2011 at 6:40 PM Rating: Good
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Did we ever actually determine for sure if the magic acc merits actually work for Enspells?

One of my lingering questions from the Olden Days.
#8 Jul 17 2011 at 7:22 PM Rating: Decent
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yes they do. all magic acc effects enspells. Although the biggest boost to them comes from using them properly on the mobs weakness.
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#9 Aug 25 2011 at 10:56 AM Rating: Decent
On the subject of merits, what are good ones for a lvl 90 RDM to get? I've had a lvl 90 BLM for a while, and just last night I got RDM up there too, and now I want to aim for end-game. I know exactly what merits I want for BLM but I have no idea what to get for RDM. I know in the old days it was something like:

5/5 Convert,
3/5 Ice,
2/5 Wind

5/5 BioIII
3/5 Slow II
2/5 Paralyze II

But is that still true? I saw on another thread here people saying Bio III just isn't worth it. I know that merits aren't hard to get these days but I'm not interested in changing them constantly. Thanks for the advice!

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#10 Aug 25 2011 at 11:24 AM Rating: Decent
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Not really. That list is pretty terrible by today's standards and probably pretty bad back then too.

5/5 on Convert is a no-brainer.

Magic Accuracy isn't quite as crucial as it once was so you can probably tweak these to suit your taste, but Ice is still the most all around useful one.

For group 2 merits I wouldn't bother putting any in Bio III. It's just not a very good spell, and its claim to fame is either ******* off people who merited Dia III or DoT solos for people who don't know how to nuke while kiting.

Dia III, Slow II and Paralyze II are all worth putting at least one point into. Beyond that it's really up to taste. Dia only gets increased duration, Slow's gains beyond the first merit are marginal, and no one has any math at all on Paralyze.

Edited, Aug 25th 2011 1:24pm by cidbahamut
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#11 Aug 25 2011 at 12:20 PM Rating: Decent
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Yeah, Bio III was nice at 75 when the total damage was comparable to one of your nukes for a fraction of the MP cost.. now that we have tier IV and tripled Refresh capability, it's just a wasted cast.
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#12 Aug 26 2011 at 4:06 AM Rating: Decent
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Given the general overall ********** of our groups 2's (now) 1 Dia, 1 Slow, 3 Para, and either 5 Phalanx 2.

Bio III does have its uses, but they are rooted more so in the solo area, its like having defender on all the time, with no impact on our attack. But for general play (groups) Dia III trumps it.

As for G1. 5/5 Vert. 5/5 Ice still the way to go.

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#13 Aug 26 2011 at 10:48 PM Rating: Good
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The Rules:
-Merit Convert 5/5
-Merit Slow2 at least once
-Don't merit Bio3 unless you plan to go 5/5
-Don't merit Paralyze2 unless you plan to 4/5 or (preferably) 5/5
-Don't merit Blind2

I'd like to dismiss Phalanx2 and non-Ice merits, but there are probably enough niche arguments out there to prove me wrong.

Dia3 is the unique one; no rules behind it.
There are beautifully solid reasons to merit it 1/5, 2/5, 3/5, 4/5, 5/5, and even 0/5.

Edited, Aug 30th 2011 2:51am by IcookPizza
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#14 Aug 26 2011 at 11:26 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Bio III does have its uses, but they are rooted more so in the solo area, its like having defender on all the time, with no impact on our attack.

On a related note, Bio3 is often the better choice for solo RDM in terms of DD.

Casting Bio3 (as opposed to Dia3) allows for:
1-Less cure/regen/stoneskin "cast-lock"
2-Less cure/regen/stoneskin MP-spending
3-Less interruptions; further lessening "cast-lock"
4-Less MP spent on compensating for said interruptions
5-More nuking (due to points 2 and 4)
6-More sword-swinging DoT (due to points 1 and 3)
7-More sword-swinging TP (due to points 1 and 3)
*When using utility-based WS's such as Energy Drain, Aeolian Edge, Sanguine blade... increased TP gain is super valuable*
8-More effective utilization of Enspells (due to point 6)

Poison-like DoT and the immediate "mini-nuke" damage are the icing on Bio3's cake.

...And no; Rehashing that list never gets old.
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#15 Aug 26 2011 at 11:26 PM Rating: Decent
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Oops, a daisy.

Edited, Aug 27th 2011 1:27am by IcookPizza

Meh, I might as well make use of this accidental double-post (guess it's triple-post, at this point).

The first thing I merited was 1/5 Dia II, with the intent of deleting it after capping all of my other merits. Definitely clever, though I'm sure other RDMs had thought of it before me.

Edited, Aug 27th 2011 1:46am by IcookPizza
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#16 Aug 27 2011 at 11:13 PM Rating: Default
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EDIT: NVM, reread what you were responding to, if it's a weak mob I cast dia, if I'm worried about taking hits then I cast Bio.

For G2 I merited 2/5 Dia (I hate 30 second duration with 1 merit) 1/5 Slow 2/5 Para and 5/5 Phalanx 2. My justification is not always going /sch everywhere (while a good sub, not one I'm always using) and with only 2 strategems, in my opinion constantly burning one on Phalanx is wasteful. Paralyze 2 is still better than Para 1 even at 1 merit but not by much (approximately ~5% minimum better). Obviously it costs more to cast but I don't really care that much.


EDIT: And it appears that due to rounding my Phalanx 2 is as strong as my Phalanx 1 at 390-400 skill (380 is weaker but no change between 390 and 400).



Edited, Aug 28th 2011 2:39am by Neisan
#17 Aug 27 2011 at 11:59 PM Rating: Excellent
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Regarding 1/5 Paralyze2:
Quote:
Paralyze 2 is still better than Para 1 even at 1 merit but not by much (approximately ~5% minimum better). Obviously it costs more to cast but I don't really care that much.
Casting SIX TIMES the MP for an inconclusively "5% better" Paralyze doesn't sound like something I'd spend three merit points on.

I wanna say those three merit points are better spent elsewhere, but maybe Abyssea buffs have closed this canyon of a gap I'm imagining.

Edited, Aug 28th 2011 3:45am by IcookPizza
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#18 Aug 28 2011 at 7:55 AM Rating: Default
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The test done over on that over FFXI site had Paralyze 2 being 6% better at one merit, I rounded down. I can agree not wanting to waste merits on a more expensive spell that is hardly better than the original, however aside from dropping Phalanx I felt putting one extra merit in Para was better than unlocking Blind II which I almost never use other than to land an enfeebling spell on odd mobs (I don't evasion tank, and I rarely party on Rdm with evasion tanks either. I don't party on Rdm much these days but that's a different issue).

Edited, Aug 28th 2011 11:03am by Neisan
#19 Aug 28 2011 at 8:00 AM Rating: Decent
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Wait, there wast testing done on Paralyze? Link me.
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#20 Aug 28 2011 at 8:03 AM Rating: Default
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I'll try, it's buried somewhere in my favs folder.

EDIT: Found the links and it seems Para 2 is even better than I first remembered (there was older testing but I can't find it), links here:

http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/83846-Extensive-Paralyze-I-Testing

http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/59134-Paralyze-Testing



Edited, Aug 28th 2011 11:16am by Neisan
#21 Aug 28 2011 at 8:37 AM Rating: Decent
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para is inconsistent anyway, in fact I still use para 1 most of the time, and now with saboteur i can't really find a good reason to get para II at all. Infact outside of Dia III, and the utility Bio III offers our G2 merits are pretty ******.
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#22 Aug 28 2011 at 8:46 AM Rating: Default
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I don't quite remember my merits, but this seems accurate.

5/5 ice
3/5 wind
2/5 earth

3 slow II
1 para II
2 Dia III
2 Bio III
1 phalanx II
1 Blind II
#23 Aug 28 2011 at 9:16 AM Rating: Good
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Almalieque wrote:
I don't quite remember my merits, but this seems accurate.

5/5 ice
3/5 wind
2/5 earth

3 slow II
1 para II
2 Dia III
2 Bio III
1 phalanx II
1 Blind II


seems ****** too.

3/5 wind- useless
2/5 earth- useless

if you dont want/need convert go 5/5 wind or earth, but really who doesn't merit convert

3 slow - only need 1
1 phalanx II, why?
1 blind, why?
2 bio 5/5 or don't merit it.

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#24 Aug 28 2011 at 1:01 PM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
I don't quite remember my merits, but this seems accurate.

5/5 ice
3/5 wind
2/5 earth

3 slow II
1 para II
2 Dia III
2 Bio III
1 phalanx II
1 Blind II


Why does this not surprise me.
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RDM can attain an almost static 50% reduction to recast time, SCH can over shoot this for a total of 60% reduction under Alacrity (provided you are wearing loafers and keeping dark weather on yourself)

rdmcandie wrote:
MACC is a joke, any job with access to mage gear can hit close the MACC cap on legion mobs, which is why my BRD/RDM can land slow/para/blind despite having only 150 skill (from /RDM.)
#25 Aug 31 2011 at 2:57 AM Rating: Default
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rdmcandie wrote:
Almalieque wrote:
I don't quite remember my merits, but this seems accurate.

5/5 ice
3/5 wind
2/5 earth

3 slow II
1 para II
2 Dia III
2 Bio III
1 phalanx II
1 Blind II


seems sh*tty too.

3/5 wind- useless
2/5 earth- useless

if you dont want/need convert go 5/5 wind or earth, but really who doesn't merit convert

3 slow - only need 1
1 phalanx II, why?
1 blind, why?
2 bio 5/5 or don't merit it.




Here is/was my reasoning.

My initial plan was 3 slow II/3 para II when it was only 6 merits.

I initially got para and was disappointed. Given my playing style, mostly solo/duo melee, ice spikes is a much better option for para.

So, I went with my plan and put 2 into Slow II. I stopped after I realized that I didn't need more than one, but really didn't know where else to put it. My philosophy is everything else pretty much sucked and at least I know slow will benefit from it.

I only got one phalanx II because as I said before, if SE wants us to be a buffer class, then it needs to better set us up as such. Otherwise, I'm not going into a "Pink Mage" of buffs, creating cycles of 2-3 spells.

1 phalanx II merit gives you phalanx which is better than nothing, if you want better, then ask a scholar or SMN. As I said, I'm a solo/duo melee person, so I'm not going to put my merits into a spell that I'll probably wont use as much.

Dia III was a given, with the TP burns and all.

I had no intentions of ever getting blind, but that's when I learned that you didn't need to be maxed on slow II, so I ended up getting blind II for ish and giggles, but ended up using it in solo play. BLind II > Blind.

After the update to 10, I put one more in dia because 30 seconds outside of TP burns is a waste, one minute is manageable. Then I put 2 in Bio III for solo play. Bio III > Bio II and if you don't have any MP problems, 1 min recast is nothing.

Then I put my final one in Slow II. Even though it isn't necessary, it's the "Fynlar laziness" concept. I would rather have my spell good enough to where I don't have to worry about gear selection.



Edited, Aug 31st 2011 12:11pm by Almalieque
#26 Aug 31 2011 at 4:39 AM Rating: Decent
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I read that a long time ago, Paralyze on regular mobs is awesome. The problem arises vs NM's and HNM's, where SE's evilness just gave them NM's straight resistance either through purely resisting it, or it such reduced potency that it'll wear before it procs most of the time. Paralyze II being stronger / more accurate suffers the same fate as Paralyze 1. Its a case of it's generally useless, but when it works it works REALLY good.
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when you're hefting something that deadly, you don't miss - mobs get the **** out of the way instead...
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