The only thing that was holding Whm back in the first place at 75 was their lack of accuracy. I'm pretty sure that's no longer an issue now with our higher combat skills. They'll just have to eat sushi instead of pizza.
And Brd? Well the only thing we really have over Bard now are enspells. Their TP set consists of either pieces we wear or pieces that are better. WS sets, they blow us out of the water and the ability to augment Hetacomb did not help that argument.
At 75 our big advantage that boosted us to the playing field was the joyeuse. Now every job can grab their own equivalent of the joyeuse and for most jobs the weapon isn't even that great.
Job Adjustmentｓ ManifestoFollow
Ok then. I'll pass that along the group.
Still. There's little to dissuade someone from going in there and getting their floors done. The monster difficulty with a level 90 team is laughable, even with the harder monster types.
Get it done man.
AH HAHAHAHAAHAHAH AHAHAH HA HAAAA... that was a good one.
Oh, wait, you were serious? *laughs harder.*
Tell that to Sobek Camp, or every other possible bottle neck. Or how about the trade macro spammers at spawn nms? Abyssea may be complete, but it'll likely never be over. Abyssea is the new Dynamis, it'll be around for years after it's content will be considered 'outdated'.
Edited, Jul 18th 2011 2:18pm by Hyrist
Still. There's little to dissuade someone from going in there and getting their floors done. The monster difficulty with a level 90 team is laughable, even with the harder monster types.
Get it done man.
Quote:
I mean really, out-DD'd by BRD and WHM? In case you haven't heard, Abyssea's over, man.
AH HAHAHAHAAHAHAH AHAHAH HA HAAAA... that was a good one.
Oh, wait, you were serious? *laughs harder.*
Tell that to Sobek Camp, or every other possible bottle neck. Or how about the trade macro spammers at spawn nms? Abyssea may be complete, but it'll likely never be over. Abyssea is the new Dynamis, it'll be around for years after it's content will be considered 'outdated'.
Edited, Jul 18th 2011 2:18pm by Hyrist
Quote:
Tell that to Sobek Camp, or every other possible bottle neck. Or how about the trade macro spammers at spawn nms? Abyssea may be complete, but it'll likely never be over. Abyssea is the new Dynamis, it'll be around for years after it's content will be considered 'outdated'.
It's over in the sense that it was the primary endgame focus for the majority of the community; everything's been figured out, it's just an exercise in farming things now. Of course we'll all be in Abyssea for some time to come, but my point is that people need to stop using Abyssean job performance as the baseline for their comparisons. Sure, BRD can pull some sick numbers in Abyssea.. but so can every other job, so who cares? People need to stop and realize it for what it is; just another event where some jobs are more useful than others, and not get completely bent out of shape that X job isn't as useful as Y job, or that since X job isn't useful in Abyssea, it sucks and needs to be buffed. I'd think that SE's recent announcements regarding the future direction of the game would make it abundantly clear that you're all getting worked up over midgame content; that, and look at how much gear was obsoleted by Abyssea.. we have 9 more levels to go and haven't even seen the real endgame content yet, what makes you think everything in Abyssea is going to stay relevant?
As for Sobek camp, who cares? I've been farming Colorful Abyssites in Misareaux for the past 2 weeks for Colorless Souls, and I've been averaging 1-2 Molted Peiste Skins per hour, to the point where they're going to waste because VNMs @#%^ing suck... and that's single-target killing stuff and doing my own chests. There's certainly no reason to ever camp Gukumatz again, as far as I'm concerned.
Quote:
At 75 our big advantage that boosted us to the playing field was the joyeuse. Now every job can grab their own equivalent of the joyeuse and for most jobs the weapon isn't even that great.
And now we have Almace... and if my own experience getting a Joyeuse back in 2006 is even halfway indicative of how difficult it was to obtain, Almace is, if anything, easier to get.
Edited, Jul 18th 2011 2:39pm by LyltiaofLakshmi
rdmcandie wrote:
RDM can attain an almost static 50% reduction to recast time, SCH can over shoot this for a total of 60% reduction under Alacrity (provided you are wearing loafers and keeping dark weather on yourself)
rdmcandie wrote:
MACC is a joke, any job with access to mage gear can hit close the MACC cap on legion mobs, which is why my BRD/RDM can land slow/para/blind despite having only 150 skill (from /RDM.)
I got my Joyeuse with a Samurai tank...
Charby is not hard or time consuming.
Charby is not hard or time consuming.
SlashAnonymous wrote:
I got my Joyeuse with a Samurai tank...
Charby is not hard or time consuming.
Charby is not hard or time consuming.
Got mine with a THF tank, personally.
And even if it is easier to get, using Almace as the model for melee progress is like saying "it's okay! We get Excalibur!" It's just not so readily obtainable that it makes a reasonable example for the validity of RDM melee past 75.
Level 75 Scruffy/37 Nerfherder
"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world, the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man."
- George Bernard Shaw
"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world, the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man."
- George Bernard Shaw
Quote:
I got my Joyeuse with a Samurai tank...
Charby is not hard or time consuming.
Charby is not hard or time consuming.
Neither is Almace! And Samurai tank in 2006 would've required a lot of help on the support end... I don't wanna hear about how easy Charybdis is now, of course it is.
Quote:
And even if it is easier to get, using Almace as the model for melee progress is like saying "it's okay! We get Excalibur!" It's just not so readily obtainable that it makes a reasonable example for the validity of RDM melee past 75.
Excal takes 150mil or 6 months farming Dynamis 5 days a week; Almace takes 0 gil (unless you buy pops to speed it up; maybe 10mil at most if you're in a hurry) and about 20-30 hours for all of the trials. Saying Almace isn't readily obtainable is laughable enough; comparing it to Excalibur is just @#%^ing stupid.
Like I've said so many times before, how many of you got your Duelist's Chapeau in your first month after joining a Dynamis LS back in the day? Yeah, not very many I'm sure; and Almace is so beyond D.Chapeau in terms of value... why does everyone still think Empyreans are hard or time consuming >.>
Edited, Jul 18th 2011 3:22pm by LyltiaofLakshmi
rdmcandie wrote:
RDM can attain an almost static 50% reduction to recast time, SCH can over shoot this for a total of 60% reduction under Alacrity (provided you are wearing loafers and keeping dark weather on yourself)
rdmcandie wrote:
MACC is a joke, any job with access to mage gear can hit close the MACC cap on legion mobs, which is why my BRD/RDM can land slow/para/blind despite having only 150 skill (from /RDM.)
LyltiaofLakshmi wrote:
Quote:
And even if it is easier to get, using Almace as the model for melee progress is like saying "it's okay! We get Excalibur!" It's just not so readily obtainable that it makes a reasonable example for the validity of RDM melee past 75.
Excal takes 150mil or 6 months farming Dynamis 5 days a week; Almace takes 0 gil (unless you buy pops to speed it up; maybe 10mil at most if you're in a hurry) and about 20-30 hours for all of the trials. Saying Almace isn't readily obtainable is laughable enough; comparing it to Excalibur is just @#%^ing stupid.
Like I've said so many times before, how many of you got your Duelist's Chapeau in your first month after joining a Dynamis LS back in the day? Yeah, not very many I'm sure; and Almace is so beyond D.Chapeau in terms of value... why does everyone still think Empyreans are hard or time consuming >.>
Edited, Jul 18th 2011 3:22pm by LyltiaofLakshmi
The point of the comparison is as follows: 1) despite relaxed requirements, Almace remains on the far end of obtainable melee weaponry, and, due to it's (lack of) presence, is not a powerful example of the state or RDM melee equipment. Four years ago, you would not have said RDM melee was okay simply because the job could eventually get Morrigan's Robe, would you?
2) The devs have historically had a way of attaching RDM to symbolic pieces of gear. Thus far they have given us access to a few endgame swords, which means nothing since our presence on said weapons simply speaks to an image, an aesthetic befitting RDM. It doesn't say much to count the endgame items that we can equip, it's more accurate to examine all the gear and weapons in between (Auction House items, drops from lesser NMs/quests/events), to honestly portray RDM melee.
And frankly, melee promotion for the job is sketchier now than it was before the cap raise.
Level 75 Scruffy/37 Nerfherder
"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world, the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man."
- George Bernard Shaw
"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world, the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man."
- George Bernard Shaw
Even without jumping on to the EMP train, BRD only out DD's RDM because it has its own unique buffs. Put a RDM and a BRD in the same group and both will be parsing about equal. WHM only out DD's a RDM because it has access to more current weapons (easy access) as RDM was left off Daggers, and their WS slightly out shines our because it is 7 hit vs 6 hit.
Even then the gap between WHM and RDM is so small it boarders on mundane, and requires the WHM to give up nearly every form of MP endurance to achieve, a RDM can go SS, RR, GH sub nin or war and still have Refresh 2 and Convert. WHM can put those atma's on but if not /NIN or /WAR they won't even be on the same playing field, and if they sub those their MP durability takes a huge ******* **** all over the place, unless they are spamming Mystic Boon, in which case RDM will pull ahead by using a Damaging WS.
You all argue the versatility of RDM then **** on it because a WHM in a pure DD role out parses us, when they have to sacrifice nearly everything of their core job to do so. Yet a RDM can still safely buff others, heal others, nuke for mb's or straight nuke, without a majo impact on their DD output, and without having to /heal or worry about MP durability.
Christ do you guys even know what you want?
Even then the gap between WHM and RDM is so small it boarders on mundane, and requires the WHM to give up nearly every form of MP endurance to achieve, a RDM can go SS, RR, GH sub nin or war and still have Refresh 2 and Convert. WHM can put those atma's on but if not /NIN or /WAR they won't even be on the same playing field, and if they sub those their MP durability takes a huge ******* **** all over the place, unless they are spamming Mystic Boon, in which case RDM will pull ahead by using a Damaging WS.
You all argue the versatility of RDM then **** on it because a WHM in a pure DD role out parses us, when they have to sacrifice nearly everything of their core job to do so. Yet a RDM can still safely buff others, heal others, nuke for mb's or straight nuke, without a majo impact on their DD output, and without having to /heal or worry about MP durability.
Christ do you guys even know what you want?
HEY GOOGLE. **** OFF YOU. **** YOUR ******** SEARCH ENGINE IN ITS ******* ****** BINARY ***. ALL DAY LONG.
Quote:
Almace may still be a great deal easier to obtain than Excalibur, but until everyone's sporting one and popping off Chant du Cygne in parties as easy as putting on socks, I remain doubtful of your claim.
You remain doubtful because the playerbase isn't swimming in Almaces? That's some faulty logic, because there's many more factors involved in that statistic than simply how obtainable Almace is. As evidence of this, I point you to the overall number of Empyreans obtained across all servers, and particularly that of the Kannagi, which happens to share the exact same trials as Almace. Funny how when you add Kannagi and Almace together, it is far and away the path with the most completed Empyreans? Perhaps the fact that most people opt for Kannagi over Almace might have something to do with it, or the fact that most RDMs just don't ever bother meleeing in the first place?
Flawed conclusions are not a reason to remain doubtful, they are merely an excuse.
Quote:
The point of the comparison is as follows: 1) despite relaxed requirements, Almace remains on the far end of obtainable melee weaponry, and, due to it's (lack of) presence, is not a powerful example of the state or RDM melee equipment. Four years ago, you would not have said RDM melee was okay simply because the job could eventually get Morrigan's Robe, would you?
If 20-30 hours is too taxing on you to obtain the strongest sword in the game for RDM, well, I don't know how you managed to accomplish anything before Abyssea... Almace is just as powerful as it's going to be, regardless of how many people own one.
And again with the WTF comparisons.. Morrigan's Robe to Almace? What the ****, who do you know that got Morrigan's Robe in 3 weeks of Salvage?
Quote:
2) The devs have historically had a way of attaching RDM to symbolic pieces of gear. Thus far they have given us access to a few endgame swords, which means nothing since our presence on said weapons simply speaks to an image, an aesthetic befitting RDM. It doesn't say much to count the endgame items that we can equip, it's more accurate to examine all the gear and weapons in between (Auction House items, drops from lesser NMs/quests/events), to honestly portray RDM melee.
So tired of this ****. If you're gonna wear AH gear on any job, you're gonna be mediocre, even for heavy DDs, period, end of story. Your entire train of thought on this assumes that melee RDMs are mouthbreathers incapable of playing the game much further beyond bidding at the AH; and despite all the evidence in various forums supporting this, I choose to believe better.
Quote:
And frankly, melee promotion for the job is sketchier now than it was before the cap raise.
...clearly no idea what you're talking about.
rdmcandie wrote:
RDM can attain an almost static 50% reduction to recast time, SCH can over shoot this for a total of 60% reduction under Alacrity (provided you are wearing loafers and keeping dark weather on yourself)
rdmcandie wrote:
MACC is a joke, any job with access to mage gear can hit close the MACC cap on legion mobs, which is why my BRD/RDM can land slow/para/blind despite having only 150 skill (from /RDM.)
Quote:
Your entire train of thought on this assumes that melee RDMs are mouthbreathers incapable of playing the game much further beyond bidding at the AH
Um a lot of the gear RDM uses to melee in is bought from the AH. A few notable items being Dusk/+1 hands, Dusk/+1 feet, Calamenec Trousers, Keen Ring. Pretty much the entirety of our WS sets.
Granted there are a lot of items a RDM should go after (Goliard, Goading Belt, Alamace (or Twi Knife), K2-4 or DA+10 (depends on atma choices), Suppa, Brutal, Atheling, Raja's Ring, Brisk Mask.
All relatively easy to get, but **** I still see RDM's melee in mage gear so really its pretty common to see gimp be seen as the standard.
HEY GOOGLE. **** OFF YOU. **** YOUR ******** SEARCH ENGINE IN ITS ******* ****** BINARY ***. ALL DAY LONG.
Almalieque wrote:
That's not "plenty of reasons", but one, "aesthetics". If you believe the player base is more aesthetic than practical, you're sadly mistaken. You should visit our other RDM thread where RDM is claimed to be "mostly useless" because it has a 3:5 kill ratio on certain mobs.
Choice and possibilities are a good thing.
Edited, Jul 18th 2011 4:19pm by Ruisu
Quote:
Um a lot of the gear RDM uses to melee in is bought from the AH. A few notable items being Dusk/+1 hands, Dusk/+1 feet, Calamenec Trousers, Keen Ring. Pretty much the entirety of our WS sets.
Yeah I know, moreso just pointing out how ridiculous it is to assume that any RDM that is halfway serious about meleeing would have zero access to 'endgame' gear like Zelus, Goading, etc. =P
(Because finding a MNK and a WHM and a brew is hard, amirite?)
rdmcandie wrote:
RDM can attain an almost static 50% reduction to recast time, SCH can over shoot this for a total of 60% reduction under Alacrity (provided you are wearing loafers and keeping dark weather on yourself)
rdmcandie wrote:
MACC is a joke, any job with access to mage gear can hit close the MACC cap on legion mobs, which is why my BRD/RDM can land slow/para/blind despite having only 150 skill (from /RDM.)
rdmcandie wrote:
Quote:
Your entire train of thought on this assumes that melee RDMs are mouthbreathers incapable of playing the game much further beyond bidding at the AH
Um a lot of the gear RDM uses to melee in is bought from the AH. A few notable items being Dusk/+1 hands, Dusk/+1 feet, Calamenec Trousers, Keen Ring. Pretty much the entirety of our WS sets.
What are you using for your Dex build WS?
No I agree, any RDM that is semi serious should be looking into attaining the pretty easily obtained items that are available. However most RDM's would prefer to ***** and moan and expect an SE handout. While my 80% number is likely not entirely accurate when comparing against DD who give a @#%^, Ive on numerous occasions been top of the parse as RDM (all be it against not as geared DD). **** I have posted parses here from abyssea that show just that and that is when I had no access to any atma's at all.
Fact: Most players in this game are not geared very well
Fact: Most players in this game do not eat food
While RDM might not stack up as well to equally minded gear *****, a well geared melee RDM is still going to be on par or better then the majority of this game. While in the small % of well geared food eating players it is not that good, the overwhelming majority of this game is not well geared and food eating.
A RDM that actually cares to be a strong DD will preform close to or above the majority of DD in this game.
When all is said and done however it doesn't matter because the stigma is RDM melee is sh*t terrible, because it isn't a top contender in the top geared/food eating %. The "regular" folks assume that a RDM with great gear, eating meat is still going to be worse then a WAR who is using full AF+2 when the difference is actually fairly minimal.
This thread is a testament to that, you have several people whining they can't out DD a pimp WHM, a WHM who has to sacrifice much much more to attain that, then a RDM. Said WHM is not useful in the role the job is meant to play, yet a RDM is still parsing close to them while near infintely able to debuff,buff,nuke,heal as needed.
In the end it is evident that players like Alma, Hyrist, Shadow, Sae, Ser, will never be truly satisfied with the jobs performance at any level, because either they want to argue for versatility, or damage. RDM is a competent melee, it could use some upgrades in certain slots, (namely riding us of Dusk +1 requirements) and access to EX Weaponskills, but overly it is not that bad off, and loses very little to be able to do what it does.
Sure a well geared WHM can take a well geared RDM on the melee parse, but that RDM is going to be offering more to the group in way of utility in the end. If you can't see this, then you are blind, and as pathetic as the majority of the game who think RDM is terrible DD because it isn't a top teir DD. It is sightly behind where it was at 75, and comparison to WHM is stupid, because a WHM gives up everything else it does, to be able to top a RDM.
LOL DEX build. Gear Attack, and only attack. Dex was cool when we couldn't cap ddex for crits, and didn't have the ACC to land all 6 on Evis. Attack gear in WS + Meat. If you doing it any other way, you doing it wrong.
Edited, Jul 18th 2011 5:11pm by rdmcandie
Fact: Most players in this game are not geared very well
Fact: Most players in this game do not eat food
While RDM might not stack up as well to equally minded gear *****, a well geared melee RDM is still going to be on par or better then the majority of this game. While in the small % of well geared food eating players it is not that good, the overwhelming majority of this game is not well geared and food eating.
A RDM that actually cares to be a strong DD will preform close to or above the majority of DD in this game.
When all is said and done however it doesn't matter because the stigma is RDM melee is sh*t terrible, because it isn't a top contender in the top geared/food eating %. The "regular" folks assume that a RDM with great gear, eating meat is still going to be worse then a WAR who is using full AF+2 when the difference is actually fairly minimal.
This thread is a testament to that, you have several people whining they can't out DD a pimp WHM, a WHM who has to sacrifice much much more to attain that, then a RDM. Said WHM is not useful in the role the job is meant to play, yet a RDM is still parsing close to them while near infintely able to debuff,buff,nuke,heal as needed.
In the end it is evident that players like Alma, Hyrist, Shadow, Sae, Ser, will never be truly satisfied with the jobs performance at any level, because either they want to argue for versatility, or damage. RDM is a competent melee, it could use some upgrades in certain slots, (namely riding us of Dusk +1 requirements) and access to EX Weaponskills, but overly it is not that bad off, and loses very little to be able to do what it does.
Sure a well geared WHM can take a well geared RDM on the melee parse, but that RDM is going to be offering more to the group in way of utility in the end. If you can't see this, then you are blind, and as pathetic as the majority of the game who think RDM is terrible DD because it isn't a top teir DD. It is sightly behind where it was at 75, and comparison to WHM is stupid, because a WHM gives up everything else it does, to be able to top a RDM.
Quote:
What are you using for your Dex build WS?
LOL DEX build. Gear Attack, and only attack. Dex was cool when we couldn't cap ddex for crits, and didn't have the ACC to land all 6 on Evis. Attack gear in WS + Meat. If you doing it any other way, you doing it wrong.
Edited, Jul 18th 2011 5:11pm by rdmcandie
HEY GOOGLE. **** OFF YOU. **** YOUR ******** SEARCH ENGINE IN ITS ******* ****** BINARY ***. ALL DAY LONG.
Clarification: At 75 what WERE you building for Dex?
@ 75 I didn't gear for DEX much at all, because I generally subbed WAR or BLU (depending on mob and if healing breeze was of more utility then me getting zerk) and used Vorpal, if I was /NIN Then Id gear for DEX in slots that the amount of ATK gained was weaker then the amount of accuracy and cutting the DDEX. Such as ring slots, (2 x 5 DEX rings at the time was about the best you could do as it offered 10Dex towards ddex as well as 5 ACC.)
But now, its all about capping or getting as close as you can to the pdif cap.
Edited, Jul 18th 2011 5:24pm by rdmcandie
But now, its all about capping or getting as close as you can to the pdif cap.
Edited, Jul 18th 2011 5:24pm by rdmcandie
HEY GOOGLE. **** OFF YOU. **** YOUR ******** SEARCH ENGINE IN ITS ******* ****** BINARY ***. ALL DAY LONG.
Quote:
In the end it is evident that players like Alma, Hyrist, Shadow, Sae, Ser, will never be truly satisfied with the jobs performance at any level, because either they want to argue for versatility, or damage.
I prefer it more to 'staying thirsty' but honestly, in this section, makes a Tall Order in the Manifesto I do not beleive they can meet, with how their track record is with making RDM stingy.
Just like any other player in this game, I'm constnatly looking to improve myelf, and I'm constnatly looking for SE to make updates and improvements to my favorite job class.
Also, what do you plan to do outside Abyssea when you're no longer caping dDex? Cause the majoirty of my days are not spent in Abyssea yet. And, likely, I'll be on Blue Mage inside it unless I'm in there for kicks/brews. (*takes picture of the jaw drop*)
I was challenged to a 75 parse and when I explained my current deffiency to WS gear (I mainly have attack pieces, lacking sea torques and gorgets, etc.) They told me to not bother until I had a decent 75 WS set.
So I'm mulling over a old 75 evisceration set.
Edited, Jul 18th 2011 5:26pm by Hyrist
Same set up. Voidwatch, WoE, and the new Dyna bosses are about the only areas where we see a need to increase our dex and acc for evis. But for those im typically /blm, simply because my melee utility as a RDM is not as good as my support utility, considering MP is not infinite there, and my Cure 4's and refresh cycles are highly relevant.
HEY GOOGLE. **** OFF YOU. **** YOUR ******** SEARCH ENGINE IN ITS ******* ****** BINARY ***. ALL DAY LONG.
It doesn't really matter if RDM becomes some damage powerhouse, to be frank. The only way it could possibly matter is if the gimpiest gimp RDM was comparable to an Ukon WAR, which would cause a bandwagon shift to using RDM as DD for everything (until it got nerfed a week later). Short of that, you have heals and DDs don't, therefore you have an incentive to be pushed hard toward a support role. That is all the playerbase will see, so any damage buffs don't really matter outside of lowman play, because RDM won't ever be equal in damage output to an equally-geared DD (I don't doubt a pimped Almace RDM could stomp your average pickup DD if they tried), so that point is pretty moot.
The only way RDM can justify a move to the frontline is an ability that enhances the role they were invited for (enhancing/enfeebling based on the manifesto) being dependent on having TP and/or your weapon drawn. I wouldn't get my hopes up, though, since SE hasn't indicated anything about doing so.
The only way RDM can justify a move to the frontline is an ability that enhances the role they were invited for (enhancing/enfeebling based on the manifesto) being dependent on having TP and/or your weapon drawn. I wouldn't get my hopes up, though, since SE hasn't indicated anything about doing so.
Aliekber
RDM BLU SCH DRG PLD BLM NIN WHM
Linkshell: CrimsonMercenaries Server: Carbamesh
Post in /K/ where the orbital laser system is now online.
RDM BLU SCH DRG PLD BLM NIN WHM
Linkshell: CrimsonMercenaries Server: Carbamesh
Sandinmygum the Stupendous wrote:
Human (?) females look ugly.
Lower levels of WoE is still consitered in my "OK" areas to melee, because honestly, it's a race against the clock and at that point, all damage you can push out is worthwhile. Sleeps and curing is often abundant in my group as we've an overage of hybrids.
Still, if we're pushing "Just Attack" at that point, aside from the 75 gear I'll keep some of what I've got. (plenty of easy AH attack gear for RDM, just not much of it has haste.) I'll do a more right comparison however when I'm further along in gear/weaponry and we get Gain Dex/Str, which may be enough on its own.
Honestly, I've ceased to care.
I put it this way. If SE fills the order they say about making us better buffers, than whatever melee buffs spells we receive can assist us as well, at better duration.
Any enfeebles that enhance physical performance does the same.
They only way they could mess it up is to skip both sections entirely, in which case it will likely fail to reach the vision they describe in both senses and RDM will sink further into being a joke job, only there to serve a role better suited by a bot. (Unless you're lowmanning, then, it's fun.)
I'm back to 'wait'(And this time waiting means working on my Blue Mage) and see mode.
Edited, Jul 18th 2011 5:48pm by Hyrist
Still, if we're pushing "Just Attack" at that point, aside from the 75 gear I'll keep some of what I've got. (plenty of easy AH attack gear for RDM, just not much of it has haste.) I'll do a more right comparison however when I'm further along in gear/weaponry and we get Gain Dex/Str, which may be enough on its own.
Quote:
The only way RDM can justify a move to the frontline is an ability that enhances the role they were invited for (enhancing/enfeebling based on the manifesto) being dependent on having TP and/or your weapon drawn. I wouldn't get my hopes up, though, since SE hasn't indicated anything about doing so.
Honestly, I've ceased to care.
I put it this way. If SE fills the order they say about making us better buffers, than whatever melee buffs spells we receive can assist us as well, at better duration.
Any enfeebles that enhance physical performance does the same.
They only way they could mess it up is to skip both sections entirely, in which case it will likely fail to reach the vision they describe in both senses and RDM will sink further into being a joke job, only there to serve a role better suited by a bot. (Unless you're lowmanning, then, it's fun.)
I'm back to 'wait'(And this time waiting means working on my Blue Mage) and see mode.
Edited, Jul 18th 2011 5:48pm by Hyrist
Oh, I gave up this fight a while ago. This is just my inner-RDM-fan talking. I've already started leveling COR because I don't have much faith that SE will restore RDM to usefulness without making it a bore to play, even though I actually kind of like playing a buffer job.
Aliekber
RDM BLU SCH DRG PLD BLM NIN WHM
Linkshell: CrimsonMercenaries Server: Carbamesh
Post in /K/ where the orbital laser system is now online.
RDM BLU SCH DRG PLD BLM NIN WHM
Linkshell: CrimsonMercenaries Server: Carbamesh
Sandinmygum the Stupendous wrote:
Human (?) females look ugly.
Out of curosity Hyrist wht jobvs are they comparing this "real 75 WS" set too? WAR? DRG? MNK? SAM? jobs that all benefit from using STR mods to boost both WSM and Pdif, to go along with their near capped ACC and likely /WAR berserk.
RDM doesn't fit WS gear like other jobs exactly because it needs ATK, ACC, and WSM. With WSM being the least efficient of the bunch. (for multi hits) Infact pretty much any job with a non STR mod on their WS fits ATK/ACC/WSM in that order, because well ATK will do more for you in the end. (and chances are they are /NIN and not /WAR so have no berserk.)
RDM doesn't fit WS gear like other jobs exactly because it needs ATK, ACC, and WSM. With WSM being the least efficient of the bunch. (for multi hits) Infact pretty much any job with a non STR mod on their WS fits ATK/ACC/WSM in that order, because well ATK will do more for you in the end. (and chances are they are /NIN and not /WAR so have no berserk.)
HEY GOOGLE. **** OFF YOU. **** YOUR ******** SEARCH ENGINE IN ITS ******* ****** BINARY ***. ALL DAY LONG.
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I'm going to have to disagree with pretty much everything you just said; y'all need to stop feeling sorry for yourselves, seriously... we got plenty of amazing things from 75>90, including huge boosts to both our melee and nuking games.
I mean really, out-DD'd by BRD and WHM? In case you haven't heard, Abyssea's over, man.
I mean really, out-DD'd by BRD and WHM? In case you haven't heard, Abyssea's over, man.
We got absolutely nothing for our melee side from 75 to 90, the sole exception is CDC and only cause SE decided to stick us on the sword with PLD and WAR, they could of just as easily stuck us on the dagger and we'd be really screwed. We were conveniently left off the Magic Sword WS, really the WS that's dINTx2, 50% MND and magic based, that replenishs HP based on damage, we're left off that yet WAR and DRK get it.
Mage side is tier IV nukes, great but BLM got tier V as did SCH, so the relative balance didn't change, they both also got access to convert which was the one thing that really set RDM apart.
"Enfeebling" was ... addle? Could mention Break but BLM got that and at an earlier level and it doesn't work on any NM's, really just Bind V2. Saboteur used to be awesome, then SE nerfed the **** out of that on NM's, bye-bye 70%+ Slow II and 30% Defense Down.
"Enhancing" is ... wait ... let me think .. Refresh II! OMG we're back to the arguments of 2003/2004 and refresh <can I have it> spam. Thankfully the other mages got Refresh 1 so their not making us into their refresh *****.
Healing is ... absolutely nothing. A BLM/WHM is better support at 90 then a RDM, they have Sleepga I / II along with Aspir / Drain / Haste / -na / Curaga / Cure IV. Only thing their missing is Regen II, which is nice but not breaking in any sense.
And that about sums on RDM from 76 to 90.
Ask anyone around here, I'm a very big supporter of RDM melee, to the point that I merited 8/8 Enhancing Magic to make my enspells stronger and more accurate. I also went 8/8 Elemental magic once the upped the cap because contrary to what some people think, I actually do enjoy playing the mage side and blowing stuff up while laughing in god-like mirth. But I'm not gonna lie here, RDM as a job is serious hurting because it has nothing a WHM/RDM or BLM/RDM or even SCH/RDM can't do better. Heck BRD/WHM's start surpass us now that MP's no longer an issue. I'm the main RDM in my shell, and while I came to events exclusively as RDM in the beginning, once we got really good at smashing NM's I started coming BLU because RDM just wasn't needed. Sometimes when we're farming Sobek or other moderate difficulty NM I'll come RDM/NIN and mix it up a bit, this is more cause on such days we're really relaxed and people come on their off jobs / builds.
Anyhow don't want to rant, but RDM is in no way shape or form good right now. SE has basically wrote us out of the game on purpose, all because they didn't want to see a RDM/NIN making videos of himself soloing Briarus / Sobek / Apandamek and Azdaja.
Edited, Jul 18th 2011 10:05pm by saevellakshmi
RoTZ: Complete DM: O
CoP: Complete AN: O
99 SAM, RDM, BLU, WAR,PLD, DRK
CoP: Complete AN: O
99 SAM, RDM, BLU, WAR,
lolgaxe wrote:
Nothing in this game is impossible if you set yourself to the task of actually doing it. Even dumb people can only hold you back for so long.
Lucinus wrote:
when you're hefting something that deadly, you don't miss - mobs get the **** out of the way instead...
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Anyhow don't want to rant, but RDM is in no way shape or form good right now. SE has basically wrote us out of the game on purpose, all because they didn't want to see a RDM/NIN making videos of himself soloing Briarus / Sobek / Apandamek and Azdaja.
You mean all things a NIN/DNC or DNC/NIN can solo?
The reason SE is hesitant, is clearly for one reason, they have no idea what direction to push RDM in. Ever faction of the RDM player base is screaming for something different,some want enhancing, some enfeebling, some nuking, some healing, some melee. SE has to choose carefully which to buff, because if they buff them all you will see groups of RDM and nothing but RDM.
Edited, Jul 18th 2011 6:12pm by rdmcandie
HEY GOOGLE. **** OFF YOU. **** YOUR ******** SEARCH ENGINE IN ITS ******* ****** BINARY ***. ALL DAY LONG.
Quote:
RDM doesn't fit WS gear like other jobs exactly because it needs ATK, ACC, and WSM. With WSM being the least efficient of the bunch. (for multi hits) Infact pretty much any job with a non STR mod on their WS fits ATK/ACC/WSM in that order, because well ATK will do more for you in the end. (and chances are they are /NIN and not /WAR so have no berserk.)
Sav, what's your take on this? Starfox had a similar approach in his STR building but I'm trying to figure out the balance specifically for a 75 Evisceration set. In the end I'm wondering if it's worth going out and grabbing a few choice pieces over what I have (Palwhan's feet over Ogres+1, contemplating turning ACP body into a mock Hauby, debating camping the Dobsonflys or grabbing the AKD hat for WS, etc.)
Also, worth taking the hit on Dex on Evisceration to use Alky's?
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