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Job Adjustments ManifestoFollow

#27 Jul 16 2011 at 9:32 AM Rating: Default
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Hyrist wrote:
Cid, quoting out of context is old trollin.

Get with the times and use a Meme or something.

Anyways, Sav, why not Goliard on the body? Haste kinda dominates the typical melee rounds and I doubt those rules are different from RDM.

In other news that ****** me off:

Looks like 'stri' and 'brave1' are going to go to Paladin and Scholar respectively.

They call us a buffer class, then give all the buffs to other jobs. @#%^ing moronic.


Edited, Jul 16th 2011 10:22am by Hyrist



I'd withhold judgement on that, I doubt those are what we think they are. RDM will get Gain-STR, Gain-DEX and Gain-INT, that's pretty much a given. Those two spells are likely completely new spells / abilities an thus I'd figured PLD / SCH and / or WHM would be on them.

Simply put, I haven't been assed to both with Nyzule Isle to get my Golliard Body and I probably won't get it for a long time. I'm also waiting to see what SE creates at 95 and above, at some point in time blind incompetence will have us on some +haste body that we share with BLU / PUP / BRD / SMN or some-such mix. That and we dearly need attack. The only thing nobody thought about was that defense doesn't scale at the same rate attack does. Monsters are starting to get retarded defense now, especially the stuff outside of Aybssea.
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when you're hefting something that deadly, you don't miss - mobs get the **** out of the way instead...
#28 Jul 16 2011 at 11:49 AM Rating: Decent
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Nah I think I'm well within my rights to be ****** off at those two spells not going to RDM considering that they had the audacity to call us buffers when all we have is Haste and Refresh.

It seems it dosen't matter WHAT idea they show, they're **** poor at utalizing any vision they have for RDM.

Mage or Melee, that's infuriating. At least with as a decent buffer class I could have RDM push the more support debuff aspect as main role and swap to BLU for a more 'in crowd' melee fix.

At this point, however, there's absolute sh*t in store for RDM as a job. I'll beleive the 'Enfeeble Adjustments' when I see them.

And you can do Nyzul now with 3, Sav. Go and get your body, it's worth it.

Edited, Jul 16th 2011 1:55pm by Hyrist
#29 Jul 16 2011 at 1:18 PM Rating: Default
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That's why I said nothing for RDM has changed. It was very frustrating back in the Sky days to be labeled the "Enfeebler" and only have a hand full of spells to use, most which were either resisted or immune to.

That's why, honestly, I'm just happy to get anything. Some times it seems that SE make changes based on the player base and sometimes it seems from their vision. I'll just take whatever and make it work.
#30 Jul 16 2011 at 2:12 PM Rating: Default
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Yeah I'll believe their are "enfeebling adjustments" when I see it. SE's too afraid of a RDM soloing their boss's by using enfeebles. I'm pretty sure anything they add will be made immediately useless by making their "new" HNM's immune to it. That or the effect will be like addle's, really weak.

I'll eventually get around to doing Nyzule isle. And while is possible to enter with 3, it's not possible to beat it with three lol, as we discovered the other day. Switch floors or puddings will mess you up everytime.
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RoTZ: Complete DM: O
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lolgaxe wrote:
Nothing in this game is impossible if you set yourself to the task of actually doing it. Even dumb people can only hold you back for so long.


Lucinus wrote:
when you're hefting something that deadly, you don't miss - mobs get the **** out of the way instead...
#31 Jul 16 2011 at 9:35 PM Rating: Default
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So we're getting brave/faith which will make the "buffing demigods" thing true?
#32 Jul 16 2011 at 10:45 PM Rating: Decent
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I'll eventually get around to doing Nyzule isle. And while is possible to enter with 3, it's not possible to beat it with three lol, as we discovered the other day. Switch floors or puddings will mess you up everytime.


Tell that to my group.

RDM BLU DNC. We can occasionally get 10 floors in a run. More if we gather a couple other people who are just hawking for floors.

Just vary your damage outputs, you should be more than fine getting 5 floors a climb at level 90.
#33 Jul 16 2011 at 10:53 PM Rating: Default
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RDM BLU DNC. We can occasionally get 10 floors in a run. More if we gather a couple other people who are just hawking for floors.


Same, we go NIN THF WHM and haven't lost yet.. although droprate on bosses sucks as always. -.-
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rdmcandie wrote:
RDM can attain an almost static 50% reduction to recast time, SCH can over shoot this for a total of 60% reduction under Alacrity (provided you are wearing loafers and keeping dark weather on yourself)

rdmcandie wrote:
MACC is a joke, any job with access to mage gear can hit close the MACC cap on legion mobs, which is why my BRD/RDM can land slow/para/blind despite having only 150 skill (from /RDM.)
#34 Jul 17 2011 at 3:41 AM Rating: Default
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Hyrist wrote:
Quote:
I'll eventually get around to doing Nyzule isle. And while is possible to enter with 3, it's not possible to beat it with three lol, as we discovered the other day. Switch floors or puddings will mess you up everytime.


Tell that to my group.

RDM BLU DNC. We can occasionally get 10 floors in a run. More if we gather a couple other people who are just hawking for floors.

Just vary your damage outputs, you should be more than fine getting 5 floors a climb at level 90.


Went with a pickup group and one run we beat the Lv 100 boss with plenty of time. Second run I changed to DRK so that I could get the weapon drop and we had a horrible time. We were running with five. Had a five switch floor which was a pita, thankfully we had the members for it. But with three people how would you do four and five switch floors? We also had a string of kill specific family "Psychflayers" and "kill all" Puddings / Oozes.
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RoTZ: Complete DM: O
CoP: Complete AN: O
99 SAM, RDM, BLU, WAR, PLD, DRK

lolgaxe wrote:
Nothing in this game is impossible if you set yourself to the task of actually doing it. Even dumb people can only hold you back for so long.


Lucinus wrote:
when you're hefting something that deadly, you don't miss - mobs get the **** out of the way instead...
#35 Jul 17 2011 at 6:49 AM Rating: Default
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We want to see red mages play a more vital role in HNM battles by making enfeebling magic more effective against high-level notorious monsters and their legendary levels of resistance as well as allowing them to better contribute to party member enhancement.


This is what I've pushed for a long time on the forums. I know the few old school RDM's left wanted a melee increase, but that's just not realistic with all the melee classes already available. Granted FFXI isn't as horribly balanced as FFXIV's melee vs mage classes, but it's not good. Every mage wants to whack their staff thinking they are playing an offline RPG and forgetting their playing a MMO. RDM's major weakness for a long time has been weak enfeebling on HNM's. This has been true dating back to 2004. The only difference was back then, we were refresh whores so it didn't matter. I'm glad to see SE has finally woke up and listened to me. I've only been pushing this for 5 years+ now. Better late than never.
#36Almalieque, Posted: Jul 17 2011 at 8:25 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Exactly. Melee buffs can happen, see Composure and Tier II enspells (minus the enhancing requirements). It's just hard to do because SE would have to create a melee buff that's only effective in party, else RDM would become the "Solo God". That's why Composure reduces casting time and enspells don't proc of dual wield. HNMs weren't designed to be soloed.
#37 Jul 17 2011 at 11:47 AM Rating: Good
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A melee buff would make Rdms solo gods...really?

Edited, Jul 17th 2011 4:28pm by SlashAnonymous
#38 Jul 17 2011 at 12:15 PM Rating: Default
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What Slash said.
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#39 Jul 17 2011 at 4:00 PM Rating: Decent
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Shadow, RDM's role on HNM mobs was never in question here. But creating a wider viariety in which Red Mage can take to the frontlines has been a long standing (and once acknowledged) desire of Red Mages for a long time. There's no valid reason why they should not accommodate that. At all.

Quote:
But with three people how would you do four and five switch floors?


If you go in with 3 people, you will never get a 5 man lamp floor. Nyzul adjusts for number of participants.
#40 Jul 17 2011 at 5:20 PM Rating: Default
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If you go in with 3 people, you will never get a 5 man lamp floor. Nyzul adjusts for number of participants.


I am pretty sure this is false. The only type this applies to is Registration Lamps, as it only requires everyone in the group to register.

Edited, Jul 17th 2011 7:24pm by rdmcandie
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#41 Jul 17 2011 at 7:04 PM Rating: Decent
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SlashAnonymous wrote:
A melee buff would make Rdms solo gods...really?

Edited, Jul 17th 2011 4:28pm by SlashAnonymous


Uhhh.. no, did you not read my entire post? I said there can be melee buffs, but they would have to be carefully balanced like the examples I provided in the post. If RDM can DD like a DD, then why play a DD?
#42 Jul 17 2011 at 7:17 PM Rating: Default
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Almalieque wrote:
SlashAnonymous wrote:
A melee buff would make Rdms solo gods...really?

Edited, Jul 17th 2011 4:28pm by SlashAnonymous


Uhhh.. no, did you not read my entire post? I said there can be melee buffs, but they would have to be carefully balanced like the examples I provided in the post. If RDM can DD like a DD, then why play a DD?



You mean keep it like it is now, capable of ding about 80% of a DD's numbers while in a DD role. With the tools to provide utility should it arise?
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#43 Jul 17 2011 at 8:10 PM Rating: Good
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rdmcandie wrote:
Almalieque wrote:
SlashAnonymous wrote:
A melee buff would make Rdms solo gods...really?

Edited, Jul 17th 2011 4:28pm by SlashAnonymous


Uhhh.. no, did you not read my entire post? I said there can be melee buffs, but they would have to be carefully balanced like the examples I provided in the post. If RDM can DD like a DD, then why play a DD?



You mean keep it like it is now, capable of ding about 80% of a DD's numbers while in a DD role. With the tools to provide utility should it arise?


If you're doing 80% of a dd, then that dd sucks
#44 Jul 17 2011 at 8:13 PM Rating: Decent
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rdmcandie wrote:
Almalieque wrote:
SlashAnonymous wrote:
A melee buff would make Rdms solo gods...really?

Edited, Jul 17th 2011 4:28pm by SlashAnonymous


Uhhh.. no, did you not read my entire post? I said there can be melee buffs, but they would have to be carefully balanced like the examples I provided in the post. If RDM can DD like a DD, then why play a DD?



You mean keep it like it is now, capable of ding about 80% of a DD's numbers while in a DD role. With the tools to provide utility should it arise?


We can't even do 100% of a Whm

We are far past that 80% of a DD mark
#45 Jul 17 2011 at 9:06 PM Rating: Decent
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rdmcandie wrote:

I am pretty sure this is false. The only type this applies to is Registration Lamps, as it only requires everyone in the group to register.



You can claim that, but never in a grouping of 3 have I ever had more than a 3 lamp floor. Never in a grouping of 4 have I had more than a 4 lamp floor.

You'd think in the time since the level cap catching friends up on floors in groups of 3-4 people we'd have run into a 5 lamp floor by now.

We haven't. You can call it luck, or put it to the test yourself.



Edited, Jul 17th 2011 11:06pm by Hyrist
#46 Jul 17 2011 at 9:16 PM Rating: Good
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I can confirm being in a 3 man group will -not- prevent you from getting a 5 lamp same time floor. So yes, you got lucky.

Edited, Jul 18th 2011 12:18am by Neisan
#47 Jul 18 2011 at 1:00 AM Rating: Decent
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I can confirm being in a 3 man group will -not- prevent you from getting a 5 lamp same time floor. So yes, you got lucky.


I can also confirm that a 5 lamp floor is not a guaranteed loss for 3 people, especially if one of them is THF.
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rdmcandie wrote:
RDM can attain an almost static 50% reduction to recast time, SCH can over shoot this for a total of 60% reduction under Alacrity (provided you are wearing loafers and keeping dark weather on yourself)

rdmcandie wrote:
MACC is a joke, any job with access to mage gear can hit close the MACC cap on legion mobs, which is why my BRD/RDM can land slow/para/blind despite having only 150 skill (from /RDM.)
#48 Jul 18 2011 at 1:52 AM Rating: Decent
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Almalieque wrote:
If RDM can DD like a DD, then why play a DD?
Because maybe you don't want to be the guy with the rapier and pimp hat, and instead want to be maybe the guy with the huge axe, or maybe the emo guy in spiky armor with a scythe, or maybe the guy with the great katana in hand. Plenty of reasons, really.

Your claim has already been debunked several times, so I'm not sure why it was brought up in the first place.

Edited, Jul 18th 2011 4:10am by Ruisu
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#49 Jul 18 2011 at 6:36 AM Rating: Decent
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Ruisu wrote:
Almalieque wrote:
If RDM can DD like a DD, then why play a DD?
Because maybe you don't want to be the guy with the rapier and pimp hat, and instead want to be maybe the guy with the huge axe, or maybe the emo guy in spiky armor with a scythe, or maybe the guy with the great katana in hand. Plenty of reasons, really.

Your claim has already been debunked several times, so I'm not sure why it was brought up in the first place.

Edited, Jul 18th 2011 4:10am by Ruisu


That's not "plenty of reasons", but one, "aesthetics". If you believe the player base is more aesthetic than practical, you're sadly mistaken. You should visit our other RDM thread where RDM is claimed to be "mostly useless" because it has a 3:5 kill ratio on certain mobs.

If RDM could deal the same amount of damage as a DD, you best believe there would be an increase of RDMs. I'm not proposing that should happen, I'm just stating the reality. If your only reason is "I want to be a Samurai", then you are agreeing with me about the love for a job > practicality and if you flock to a jock just because of a like update, then that makes you a band wagoner.

#50 Jul 18 2011 at 9:57 AM Rating: Decent
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The "80%" was as of level 75, since then we've taken a huge nose dive. Like the above posters said, a WHM can "out DD" us now. The reasons are simply, nearly every other job in the game as been super buffed in one way or another. The jobs that got good stuff got better stuff, and the jobs that didn't get good stuff got better stuff. Only three jobs have been ignored, SMN, RDM and SCH. Some arguments can be made for BRD, but they were and will always be the most desired buffing job in the game, especially now that they can both haste and march people.

The big feeling I get from SE is their afraid of enabling another Avesta. Of giving the job anything that could possibly make it stronger in any sense, out of fear that someone will find a way to abuse it to solo super NM's. And until this fear is removed, RDM will never ever ~ever~ get anything of substance. Avesta did some amazing things, but no single player hurt the job more then he did.
____________________________
RoTZ: Complete DM: O
CoP: Complete AN: O
99 SAM, RDM, BLU, WAR, PLD, DRK

lolgaxe wrote:
Nothing in this game is impossible if you set yourself to the task of actually doing it. Even dumb people can only hold you back for so long.


Lucinus wrote:
when you're hefting something that deadly, you don't miss - mobs get the **** out of the way instead...
#51 Jul 18 2011 at 11:12 AM Rating: Decent
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I'm going to have to disagree with pretty much everything you just said; y'all need to stop feeling sorry for yourselves, seriously... we got plenty of amazing things from 75>90, including huge boosts to both our melee and nuking games.

I mean really, out-DD'd by BRD and WHM? In case you haven't heard, Abyssea's over, man.
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rdmcandie wrote:
RDM can attain an almost static 50% reduction to recast time, SCH can over shoot this for a total of 60% reduction under Alacrity (provided you are wearing loafers and keeping dark weather on yourself)

rdmcandie wrote:
MACC is a joke, any job with access to mage gear can hit close the MACC cap on legion mobs, which is why my BRD/RDM can land slow/para/blind despite having only 150 skill (from /RDM.)
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