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RDM update stuffFollow

#77 Oct 09 2011 at 3:48 PM Rating: Default
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Find 1-2 competent friends to roll with and pretty much everything is within your reach. Best way to find them is do /shout pickups for seals to screen people, and pursue the ones whom you get along with and aren't terrible.

That's how I found my partner, and in about a year we've finished close to 30 sets of +2, 10 Empyreans, got all the RA/EX stuff from Abyssea, farmed full Homam/Nashira sets, completed 3 Salvage sets (in about 6 weeks), run Dynamis for 250~300 coins a run, farmed gear from Nyzul, zerg Kirins, and more..

Feel free to PM me for any further advice if you want.

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rdmcandie wrote:
RDM can attain an almost static 50% reduction to recast time, SCH can over shoot this for a total of 60% reduction under Alacrity (provided you are wearing loafers and keeping dark weather on yourself)

rdmcandie wrote:
MACC is a joke, any job with access to mage gear can hit close the MACC cap on legion mobs, which is why my BRD/RDM can land slow/para/blind despite having only 150 skill (from /RDM.)
#78 Oct 10 2011 at 5:08 PM Rating: Good
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LyltiaofLakshmi wrote:
As for CDC... Empyreans are standard equipment for anyone serious about meleeing on most jobs these days;

I'm calling shenanigans.
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#79 Oct 10 2011 at 5:23 PM Rating: Default
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jlejeune wrote:
LyltiaofLakshmi wrote:
As for CDC... Empyreans are standard equipment for anyone serious about meleeing on most jobs these days;

I'm calling shenanigans.


What is wrong with her statement? Most of them are the best weapons for the respective jobs that can use them. Anyone who is serious about melee numbers will have one or be working on one. I fail to see the shenanigans.
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#80 Oct 10 2011 at 5:28 PM Rating: Excellent
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Obviously they're top tier equipment. Yet I don't have one, and I have no plans to work on one, and yet someone has the gall to tell me I'm not serious?
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#81 Oct 10 2011 at 5:38 PM Rating: Default
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jlejeune wrote:
Obviously they're top tier equipment. Yet I don't have one, and I have no plans to work on one, and yet someone has the gall to tell me I'm not serious?


well you can't be that serious if you don't want to work on probably the single best piece of gear for pretty well every job that swings at a mob.

Sure you might do well at it, i don't know, nor do I care, but no you are not serious if you don't even plan to work on one.
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#82 Oct 10 2011 at 5:44 PM Rating: Default
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jlejeune wrote:
Obviously they're top tier equipment. Yet I don't have one, and I have no plans to work on one, and yet someone has the gall to tell me I'm not serious?

Given that they are relatively easy to acquire and considering the boost to performance they offer, yes.
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I think RDM's neurotic omniscience is sooooooo worth including in any alliance.
#83 Oct 10 2011 at 7:54 PM Rating: Decent
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Given that they are relatively easy to acquire


Compared to what? Relics and mythics? Sagasinger?

Everything is "relatively easy" to get if you're gonna use those kinds of things as your basis.

Edited, Oct 10th 2011 10:02pm by Fynlar
#84 Oct 10 2011 at 8:09 PM Rating: Default
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Precisely, hence the incredulity at those who still insist this stuff is out of reach for them.
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rdmcandie wrote:
RDM can attain an almost static 50% reduction to recast time, SCH can over shoot this for a total of 60% reduction under Alacrity (provided you are wearing loafers and keeping dark weather on yourself)

rdmcandie wrote:
MACC is a joke, any job with access to mage gear can hit close the MACC cap on legion mobs, which is why my BRD/RDM can land slow/para/blind despite having only 150 skill (from /RDM.)
#85 Oct 10 2011 at 8:25 PM Rating: Default
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Fynlar wrote:
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Given that they are relatively easy to acquire


Compared to what? Relics and mythics? Sagasinger?

Everything is "relatively easy" to get if you're gonna use those kinds of things as your basis.

Edited, Oct 10th 2011 10:02pm by Fynlar



Well considering the recent changes to Dynamis, Relics are a lot easier to get then they once were, currency stocks are high and it can be solo'd or low manned (3 people in north lands can split the nation currencies for respective tier ups). Mythics are rather unobtainable by the general people as they require a group, a retarded amount of a hard to find/get items.

But ya more or less everything is easy to get, some things just require time, and in some cases a group of friends to do it with.
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#86 Oct 10 2011 at 8:27 PM Rating: Default
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Fynlar wrote:
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Given that they are relatively easy to acquire


Compared to what? Relics and mythics? Sagasinger?

Everything is "relatively easy" to get if you're gonna use those kinds of things as your basis.

Edited, Oct 10th 2011 10:02pm by Fynlar

Well what other "By George, we now kick tremendous amounts of ***" items are there to compare it against?

How to build an Empyrean 101
1. Camp a bunch of low to mid level NMs which are trivially easy to defeat.
2. Shout for help with some VNMs.
3. Get your Linkshell to blitz through the Abyssea NM portion in roughly a week.
4. That's it! You're done.

Now stack that against the legwork, quests, additional trials and several hundred million gil worth of currency it takes to build a relic or mythic.

Even if we didn't have Relics and Mythics to compare against, Empyreans are still easy. They might be a little time consuming, but they're not difficult.
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I think RDM's neurotic omniscience is sooooooo worth including in any alliance.
#87 Oct 10 2011 at 10:54 PM Rating: Good
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Precisely, hence the incredulity at those who still insist this stuff is out of reach for them.


I'm saying that referring to top tier gear as a "standard" is ******* retarded. Perhaps you missed my point?

And yeah, just because I have the dual box or the connections necessary to get these sorts of things in a timely manner, that must mean everyone else does, right?

Quote:
How to build an Empyrean 101
1. Camp a bunch of low to mid level NMs which are trivially easy to defeat.
2. Shout for help with some VNMs.
3. Get your Linkshell to blitz through the Abyssea NM portion in roughly a week.
4. That's it! You're done.


That's still not "relatively easy" compared to most weaponry out there which you can kill a NM once or twice with TH+procs and get right off the bat, or grab off the AH and call it a day. It is pretty funny that you think everyone has a LS that will just drop everything and get their Abyssea drops done in a week, though.

By the way, I have two emps. You're kinda preaching to the choir on how it is done.
#88 Oct 11 2011 at 6:51 AM Rating: Good
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Fynlar wrote:
Quote:
Precisely, hence the incredulity at those who still insist this stuff is out of reach for them.


I'm saying that referring to top tier gear as a "standard" is batsh*t retarded. Perhaps you missed my point?

And yeah, just because I have the dual box or the connections necessary to get these sorts of things in a timely manner, that must mean everyone else does, right?

Quote:
How to build an Empyrean 101
1. Camp a bunch of low to mid level NMs which are trivially easy to defeat.
2. Shout for help with some VNMs.
3. Get your Linkshell to blitz through the Abyssea NM portion in roughly a week.
4. That's it! You're done.


That's still not "relatively easy" compared to most weaponry out there which you can kill a NM once or twice with TH+procs and get right off the bat, or grab off the AH and call it a day. It is pretty funny that you think everyone has a LS that will just drop everything and get their Abyssea drops done in a week, though.

By the way, I have two emps. You're kinda preaching to the choir on how it is done.


Wow been awhile since I've been around here.

I see the old trolls are still present, I wish ala had an ignore feature.

Anyhow onto the topic at hand.

Fyn what their talking about is the crazy mentality that the top 5% tend to have. Basically if your not in the top 5% therefor you suck, this completely ignored the fact that the bottom 95% make more money for SE then the top 5% ever could. I just ignore them, faster and easier that way.

Emps are *easy* only in comparison to relics which basically required you to ***** an entire shell over to make, that or get shacked up with really generous people. Otherwise it's still requires a significant time / energy investment and practically requires friends that have the proper jobs available and geared. Triple boxing a WHM, NIN with me on WAR meant I could build as many sobek pop sets as I wanted, unfortunately my play time is severely restricted with me spending all of it with my shell. This allowed me to only get 26 skins prior to "my turn" on the LS Emp weapon list, then we finished the final 24 skins at once. I don't expect other players to have access to these resources, nor should those resources be required to enjoy a MMO. Every player should be able to enjoy the game, not just those with connections.

RDM melee is actually pretty strong, it just has a few glaring weakness's.

First is WS selection, CDC is amazing but a job shouldn't require an Emp to do this. With the severe glut of good daggers, RDM ~needs~ Vorpal Blade and DW together. Otherwise your back to needing CDC.

Second is gear selection, it's pretty thin but I've been able to put together a rocking set. We really need better body / leg selections, and more ATK / DEX options for CDC.

Currently I've got,

Main / Sub: Almace / STR Shamshir +3
Ranges: M.Acc +8 Chakram
Head: Zelus Tiara
Neck: Rancor Collar
Ear1: Suppa
Ear2: Brutal
Body: ACP Body Atk+10 Acc+10 (Been debating changing this for a long time)
Hands: Dusk +1
Ring1: Keen Ring (Acc+3 Attack+7 one)
Ring2: Rajas
Back: Athling Mantle
Waist: Speed Belt
Legs: Calmeric Trousers (Debating changing this for Haste +3 Atk +7 pants)
Feet: New Haste +4% feet (can't remember name).

This set puts me at 25% gear haste with a good chunk of attack / DA. I use 456 Enhancing Magic for +20 STR, +27 En Damage and 12~13% Temper. Putting all that together makes a pretty fast melee setup. WS set is mostly Attack / DEX options. The rule of thumb I've been using is 1 DEX = 3 attack. It's not absolute but it helps when making choices.

And lastly, the community is our biggest hurdle. We've become our own worst enemy. The out of hand rejection is what hurts the most, it prevents people from trying and experimenting. It becomes a catch 22, no one wants to melee as their afraid of getting ridiculed, people ridicule others because no one does it, and SE is extra cautious because they don't see many people doing it. I really do wish more people would go out and experiment, it's not that hard but it does require more concentration then hitting auto-attack and an occasional WS macro.
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#89 Oct 11 2011 at 7:13 AM Rating: Default
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Fyn what their talking about is the crazy mentality that the top 5% tend to have. Basically if your not in the top 5% therefor you suck, this completely ignored the fact that the bottom 95% make more money for SE then the top 5% ever could. I just ignore them, faster and easier that way.


Funny how you say this, then spend the rest of your long, pointless post doing the opposite. Smiley: lol

Anyways I'm sick of this amnesia y'all seem to be struck with. In case you forgot, getting good (not even the best, that was pretty much impossible for all but the most insane) gear in this game used to require alliances worth of people, and all the politics that goes along with it. Now, all you need is 1-2 people to get some of the best weapons in the game, and you want to ***** and complain how nobody has access to them and only those with connections are able to get it done?

If anyone here is trolling, I'd say it's probably you with this half-assed logic and terrible melee gear recommendations (seriously, 25% haste? Aureole just there to show off?).

I guess I'm flattered that you consider me to be in the top 5% of players though Smiley: cool
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rdmcandie wrote:
RDM can attain an almost static 50% reduction to recast time, SCH can over shoot this for a total of 60% reduction under Alacrity (provided you are wearing loafers and keeping dark weather on yourself)

rdmcandie wrote:
MACC is a joke, any job with access to mage gear can hit close the MACC cap on legion mobs, which is why my BRD/RDM can land slow/para/blind despite having only 150 skill (from /RDM.)
#90 Oct 11 2011 at 10:04 AM Rating: Excellent
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Emps are *easy* only in comparison to relics which basically required you to ***** an entire shell over to make, that or get shacked up with really generous people. Otherwise it's still requires a significant time / energy investment and practically requires friends that have the proper jobs available and geared. Triple boxing a WHM, NIN with me on WAR meant I could build as many sobek pop sets as I wanted, unfortunately my play time is severely restricted with me spending all of it with my shell. This allowed me to only get 26 skins prior to "my turn" on the LS Emp weapon list, then we finished the final 24 skins at once. I don't expect other players to have access to these resources, nor should those resources be required to enjoy a MMO. Every player should be able to enjoy the game, not just those with connections.


Things like this are mainly what I'm getting at. Not everyone's sitting on multiple accounts they can tether around to do things on their own. Nevermind actually being able to RDM in a low-man Abyssea consistently, but advertising yourself as a RDM who wants to melee (better) doesn't exactly inspire confidence, either (and I'm basically in agreement with the later catch 22 paragraph, and I've argued similar before). Sure, your turn should ideally come around eventually, but nobody's gonna be fooled into thinking things like GAxe, H2H, or Katana will not be getting a priority. Those would assuredly let people farm other weapons more quickly, especially since at least WAR and NIN are vital proc jobs.

Overall, I've never once said getting to the 85 phase is impossible. I just feel the over time requirement for those not blessed with the resources, and these people are far more numerous than those who refuse to play outside their little circles want us to believe, is too steep for a job that's fighting uphill for a nod toward melee to begin with. Sure, some get by playing the shout game, but that can be a gamble, either in the quality of players who volunteer or even getting people to volunteer depending on when you start looking. If a timed mob like Guku wasn't involved, someone looking at a good 2-3 hour session might be able to afford wasting an hour gathering bodies, but for the remaining 1-2, they either have to manage claim or hope they get lucky on chests, of which time to build lights is also needed, even if only 15-20m if you're efficient about it.
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#91 Oct 11 2011 at 11:11 AM Rating: Decent
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Aiyl wrote:

P.S. I love you Hyrist and I want your friends.


Come to Odin. The LS is open, honest and friendly. (if you don't mind hearing a few perverted conversations, the two LS leaders have had 3 kids are are still madly in love with each other.)

But make no mistake, the LS is a social with preference to Dynamis and some dabbling in Abyssea matters.

On a side note, and getting into this conversation again (Sans the trolls, I did find the ignore button by the way Sav, problem is all it really does is sub-default those on the ignore list.)

The argument that RDM has no native Melee capability/abilities/traits now is pretty much false with the inclusion of Temper.

The biggest fly (of many) in the ointment, of course, is that some of our more substantial melee boosts also benefit the party. But I accept the 'comparative loss' in the ideal that this is a support job we're talking about. Some of our boosts SHOULD be party wide.

So I'm going (preaching to the choir but it's good to list it out sometimes) to list out the RDM Melee boosts a sec.

Dia (III) 15-30% Defense reduction (With Saboteur)
Gravity (-10 evasion)
Haste (15% Spell haste)
Enspells (Variable elemental melee damage)
Gain STR/DEX (Stat boost)
Temper (Variable Double Attack)
Composure (Wiki now says +10 accuracy for some reason...)


Of course some of these have really glaring flaws (Enspell II calculations, Enspell I scaling, Composure NOT scaling at all.) But you can equate some of these abilities directly over to boots other Melee jobs get

The only other RDM Specific issue left is access to EX weaponskills natively, which, I agree we should have.

The other problem that isn't solely on RDM is the lack of effectiveness in Sword WSes in general, but I have a feeling that will get a buff when they adjust weaponskills as a whole.

I'm with Seriha on this one, there is no reason why RDM should be limited to away from EX Wses. There are only 3 jobs that use them primarily. And making RDM a more competent melee isn't going to break the game, as they'll still be regulated in the backline for HNM/Bosses just like BLU.
#92cidbahamut, Posted: Oct 11 2011 at 11:31 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Gravity isn't worth mentioning. Anything you can land Gravity on you should already be capping accuracy on unless you're meleeing in mage gear.
#93 Oct 11 2011 at 11:45 AM Rating: Good
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Oh, I see that my previous comment was dramatic.

My exact words were:

"I always thought my breakdown would be me going out on a murderous rampage..."

I wasn't implying I was going to kill anything, or anyone. Cid made a very snide comment about me having a mental breakdown, I make a quirky, amused comment on how my vision of me having a mental breakdown was a lot more violent.

To clarify, any indication that I'm going to physically harm anyone in real life rests solely on the viewpoints of the reader. I'm not responsible for your perceptions. Nor will I stand and be held accountable for them.

Thus, I said, "Take what you will of that." Because here's the line that separates a reasonable individual form one that was negative was what you derived one of these from that comment:

Me bemusing at Cid's comment an stating what I believed would be a true breakdown for me, and thus disagreeing with the idea that I'm going through a mental breakdown(Which was the intended message).

Or some sort of veiled threat that I'm going to become an internet-based serial killer and come and kill you.


If you're in the latter camp. You need to take a break from forums, or internet negativity in general. Or at the very least, get over your animosity towards me in general. It's a literary crossroads, or an interpretative mirror. Because the manner in which you interpreted that 'gray' statement is directly reflective of your own view of me.

Perhaps I'm the one who should feel threatened? It most certainly feels as if any time I post on a forum that I get harassed. People tend to get too involved in their disagreements, for all of what? A playstyle difference between two people that will likely never meet in game, let alone in person?

Or a difference between two opposing opinions as to how to solve a problem?

My brief dive into trolling was tiny compared to the attitudes that still have yet to be cracked down upon, even though there is precedent for doing so (I.E. Rog.) And so long as it persists, how am I going to regard this board seriously?

Edited, Oct 11th 2011 1:46pm by Hyrist
#94 Oct 11 2011 at 11:54 AM Rating: Good
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cidbahamut wrote:

Gravity isn't worth mentioning. Anything you can land Gravity on you should already be capping accuracy on unless you're meleeing in mage gear.



You could say the same thing about Composure, if Wiki is to be believed, they offer the exact same degree of performance increase speaking strictly of melee.

Red Mage is a job that wins fights by manipulations that even slips into degrees. Even if Gravity isn't a stellar spell. It's a tool in our set. Using it + Composure is nearly Accuracy Bonus II, even if half of that is shared by the party.

"Should be capping Accuracy" is an opinion that, I've found, rarely connects with fact. Some enemies have more evasion than others, and if you don't have the time to manipulate your macros/macro sets to compensate, Gravity becomes a usable tool again.

Again, it's 5% if you're not capped. It deserves no less of a mention than Enspell IIs or composure.

Edited, Oct 11th 2011 1:54pm by Hyrist
#95cidbahamut, Posted: Oct 11 2011 at 11:59 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) If you're having trouble capping accuracy on fodder mobs without Gravity I don't know what to tell you.
#96 Oct 11 2011 at 12:06 PM Rating: Good
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You're flame-baiting again Cid. You know well the context in which I was making that statement, (it's not JUST fodder mobs in which you can cast gravity upon)yet you choose to assume that to try to put me down. You really have to watch that, cause that short statement is exactly the same thing Rog did to other people.

However, you can cap accuracy against most fodder mobs and still end up short of the mark on cap on others. Thief and Ninja type mobs are prime examples of this.

This isn't even touching the NM situation in which we argue over constantly. Even the lower tiers can have above average evasion that even causes dedicated DDs to not have capped accuracy on.

Edited, Oct 11th 2011 2:07pm by Hyrist
#98 Oct 11 2011 at 1:08 PM Rating: Good
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...

You began this entire conversation arguing against fact with opinion. Your statements are now slipping into generalized absolutes, which again, rarely live up to fact. How are you not trolling?

Let's stick with the facts.

Gravity is gained at level 21 by Red Mage giving the same level of hit increase as Accuracy Bonus I, one level after you can get it subbing Ranger(of all classes), but 9 levels before any other class can receive it as a main job.

It's an effect we can cast, that can improve our melee performance. (As well as anyone else attacking the mob without capped accuracy, but that's irrelevant to this conversation.) In ANY situation in which our accuracy isn't capped for whatever reason.

The only other accuracy upgrade we get afterwards that's native, is Composure, which also gives 5% hit rate, according to BG Wiki. (But does not have to be replenished frequently.)

Unless the monster is flat out immune, (or dies too quickly) there's no reason not to cast it, unless you're absolutely certain that both you and every member of your party and/or alliance is maxed on accuracy.

And if all of that is STILL not enough reason for it to remain on the list, it still remains there just on the very principle that not listing it is, in fact, misinformation by willful omission.

We have it. It helps melee performance. It's on the list, period.

Not listing it would be like omitting Accuracy Bonus or Quickstep from Dancer just because it's possible to cap accuracy without it.



Edited, Oct 11th 2011 3:10pm by Hyrist
#99 Oct 11 2011 at 1:11 PM Rating: Excellent
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Find a better linkshell?


Are you offering one to anyone to who happens to be in such a situation? Because the implication that it's easy for anyone to just up and find a good linkshell is as ludicrous as Empyrean weapons being standard equipment.

How so? Well, in the FFXI I play, it's rare people do things for others for free. Be it gil, other loot from the same targets, or later favors, most everything has a price. By all means, sit there and tell people with a straight face that someone should be able to hop from shell to shell, finding that perfect balance of activity that matches their schedule along with enough synergistic personalities without being placed last in line or needing to earn their keep by getting who knows what for others first for some unknown period of time. And all that "progress" can be lost in an instant at no fault of the individual.

Christ, I'm reminded of the guy who accused me of never doing anything in my LS despite for the year and a half he was away, I had a 95%+ attendance rate to all of our Dynamis and Einherjar runs with an in-shell Limbus and Nyzul group on the side with the occasional Salvage run post-Ein (much as I hate Salvage). On top of that, I'd be at HNMs when able and would help with things when people actually asked me to. Yet, since this guy was in another time zone and rarely saw me on when he was, I was the ******* scum of the earth when I dared ask for anything on my end. And the sad thing is, some would side with him if only because they played with him more thanks to their own schedules conflicting with mine. Didn't matter we were the same group, went through the same application process, helped others get their own stuff, and then some. Linkshells, cliques, whatever you wanna call 'em, getting a good one that suits you simply isn't a matter of wanting it. Luck is a factor in any person's progress with this game, socially and statistically.

Apparently sympathizing and understanding people in such positions is problematic, though. Or maybe the canned response is, "Suck less."
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#101cidbahamut, Posted: Oct 11 2011 at 1:23 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Accuracy caps and Gravity doesn't land on NMs. At the very least it needs a disclaimer next to it noting how underwhelming and niche it is. It helps, but not a whole **** of a lot, and only once in a blue moon.
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