1
Forum Settings
       
Reply To Thread

RDM update stuffFollow

#102cidbahamut, Posted: Oct 11 2011 at 1:28 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Finding a good linkshell is hard.
#103 Oct 11 2011 at 1:37 PM Rating: Excellent
Guru
Avatar
*****
11,147 posts
Yet your solution to anyone who doesn't have one hammered out in, let's say, 1-2 weeks is to find a better linkshell. Gotcha.

Maybe I'm just weird with my rational attempts at adult time management, but standard equipment shouldn't take a month or more to acquire.
____________________________
Violence good. **** bad. Yay America.
#104cidbahamut, Posted: Oct 11 2011 at 1:41 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Finding a good linkshell fixes so many problems it isn't even funny. You owe it to yourself to find one that's a good fit and will help you achieve your goals. I don't know why I'm getting flack for suggesting that finding one is a worthwhile effort.
#105 Oct 11 2011 at 2:00 PM Rating: Excellent
Guru
Avatar
*****
11,147 posts
Nobody's arguing that a good linkshell doesn't help with everything. Lording down from the assumption that everyone has one is problematic, though. Or more appropriately, it can skew the perception of standard. Setting the bar high for yourself is one thing, but you just can't expect everyone to meet or exceed it. It's just not possible with how all of our lives, skill, and play styles vary. And really, you can see these frustrations mounting with recent events like poor scroll drop rates, the heavy plate issue, and VW's shoddy loot system. It's bad enough fighting game issues. Adding player politics on top is enough to scare people away entirely.
____________________________
Violence good. **** bad. Yay America.
#106 Oct 11 2011 at 2:17 PM Rating: Default
Scholar
***
1,286 posts
So I should be assuming that everyone is wallowing in misery as they refuse to try to find a shell that's a good fit, is that it? Just assume everyone has a terrible linkshell? Ok. Sure. That doesn't change anything. Empyreans are still easy. It's getting people to help you that's difficult, and that is indeed a huge hurtle for a lot of folks, but it's a hurtle that infests all levels of content and is easily thwarted if you can find yourself a good linkshell.
____________________________
Server: Midgardsormr
Occupation: Reckless Red Mage

IcookPizza wrote:

I think RDM's neurotic omniscience is sooooooo worth including in any alliance.
#107 Oct 11 2011 at 2:53 PM Rating: Excellent
Based on the reports I was getting in here, I was expecting to see a number of flaming and trolling posts, but I don't see anything on either end of the spectrum that warranted any kind of moderation. The post reporting function is something to use in the case of a legitimate complaint, but what was recently reported doesn't really constitute flaming or trolling in any way. Don't abuse it, alright?
____________________________
Lady Jinte wrote:

Vlorsutes' Negotiation Skill rises 0.2 points
Vlorsutes' Observant Parent Skill rises 0.3 points
Vlorsutes' Argument Diffusing Skill rises 0.1 points

#108 Oct 11 2011 at 4:19 PM Rating: Decent
Avatar
****
7,547 posts
so wait just because someone disagrees with you it isn't trolling or flaming?
____________________________
HEY GOOGLE. **** OFF YOU. **** YOUR ******** SEARCH ENGINE IN ITS ******* ****** BINARY ***. ALL DAY LONG.

#109 Oct 11 2011 at 5:25 PM Rating: Good
***
3,059 posts
Calling people tards is.
____________________________
"And I'm prepared to passionately argue this point until nothing makes sense anymore. If that doesn't work, then the hours upon hours of whining will." -Red Mage Statscowski

Saggo of Garuda Lakshmi
#110 Oct 11 2011 at 5:27 PM Rating: Decent
Avatar
****
7,547 posts
All right,

This convo is quickly flatlining so here goes (from a troll none the less that apparently offers nothing constructive).

This is to sum up in my own opinion with contributing elements from the community here in what RDM has/needs in its relevant areas.

Support

RDM is falling drastically behind as a healer, and even a support healer. In the coming months (likely march) I expect the level increase to 99 ,although it would not surprise me if SE flaked out and increased the cap 1 level each update instead). Either way the next level is 96/48 meaning 2 things, /RDM will give Cure IV and Haste, this is very bad for us considering 2-3 certain jobs that can abuse this, BRD, SMN, and likely the most dangerous BLU.

Now future aside currently RDM is in the back seat to SCH and WHM, while I agree with our positioning, the tools WHM and SCH have (and will be getting) really distance themselves from RDM. RDM can kind of cheat to catch SCH some by subbing SCH, the fact is that they are ahead of us still but not as much. I feel this is a good balance as RDM can change on the fly, and SCH can not as readily do so and RDM also has the ability to effectively melee most targets. The Issue is with how far ahead WHM is from SCH, and Thus more so ahead of RDM. WHM is sitting pretty ******* high on their horse, and we are about to lose nearly our whole support side in 1 level.

Needs:
Cure V (or SE needs to increase the respective caps of all healing spells by one tier but keeps enmity values)
- All buffs RDM have to be Accessionable, Temper being a large one, haste as well. With SMN and BRD getting everything RDM has plus their own buffs that are AOE, it only goes to boost the support position. It also will be usable by SCH/RDM (haste primarily) so there is no limiting factor for any native haste jobs having AoE haste with proper subjob selection.

Melee

Leaving this one short, because I think it is fine but does have a few needs.

Needs.
Better Itemization on gear.
EX WS's from dagger and sword.
ADDED to Dagger Magian Trials.


Enfeebles

******LETS THESE WORK ON MOBS AGAIN, ALL OF THEM*******

Nuking

Its working just fine.
____________________________
HEY GOOGLE. **** OFF YOU. **** YOUR ******** SEARCH ENGINE IN ITS ******* ****** BINARY ***. ALL DAY LONG.

#111 Oct 11 2011 at 9:11 PM Rating: Default
Scholar
***
1,286 posts
rdmcandie wrote:
so wait just because someone disagrees with you it isn't trolling or flaming?

Well ****. I was going by the definition folks have been using over at the Official Forum. They're official so they have to be correct, right?
____________________________
Server: Midgardsormr
Occupation: Reckless Red Mage

IcookPizza wrote:

I think RDM's neurotic omniscience is sooooooo worth including in any alliance.
#112 Oct 11 2011 at 9:40 PM Rating: Default
**
824 posts
Not sure why anyone's talking about linkshells and empyreans in the same sentence, really... find 1-2 people that also want Empyreans, get together with them as often as your schedules allow, and make your weapons.

This solves several problems:

-You don't have to search for that special hard-to-find linkshell. (Which are even harder to find these days on account of them being unnecessary to succeed at 90% of the content at this point)

-You don't have to wait in line, amass points, deal with drama, etc.

-Nobody is going to tell you your Empyrean of choice is a lower priority than another (read: theirs). It's not an exaggeration to say that a Kannagi or Ukon helps reduce time spent farming, but they are certainly not necessary.

..and after working closely with this small group for awhile, you start to branch out into other events, and eventually you get to the point where you wonder why you even cared about finding a Linkshell in the first place.
____________________________
rdmcandie wrote:
RDM can attain an almost static 50% reduction to recast time, SCH can over shoot this for a total of 60% reduction under Alacrity (provided you are wearing loafers and keeping dark weather on yourself)

rdmcandie wrote:
MACC is a joke, any job with access to mage gear can hit close the MACC cap on legion mobs, which is why my BRD/RDM can land slow/para/blind despite having only 150 skill (from /RDM.)
#113 Oct 12 2011 at 1:42 PM Rating: Default
Avatar
****
7,547 posts
Oh and I am just going to leave this here.

Total Empyreans completed 27,217

As of June 2011

http://www.playonline.com/ff11us/guide/development/census/10/4.html

Hard is hard eh.

For comparisons sake

Total Relics completed 5978 (Final Stage, L80, L85 and L90) - rather time consuming
Total Mythics completed 512 - actually difficult to obtain (thank you 30K alexandrite)


Oh and for further comparison

Relics were available in 2004 iirc, Mythics 2007?, and Emps 2010. first dates are kind of off I think but the important one is the 1 year Emps have been available, That is 74.5 Emps finished every day.

at the time other census of course, likely higher now, with more and more people being capable of farming them in a timely manner, higher levels and better gear helps too.

Edited, Oct 12th 2011 3:46pm by rdmcandie
____________________________
HEY GOOGLE. **** OFF YOU. **** YOUR ******** SEARCH ENGINE IN ITS ******* ****** BINARY ***. ALL DAY LONG.

#114 Oct 12 2011 at 3:05 PM Rating: Good
Avatar
****
4,779 posts
The numbers don't lie. Although, combining an 80-90 does inflate things. Looking at what it takes to get a 95 Empyrean. I bet you things start evening out between Relics and Empyrean as time goes on.

My biggest problem with Almace is that it seems to be a cop-out to regarding Sword as a weapon class's difficulty in being a truly respectable weapon class. I'll refer to this more when I finish writing up my response to RCD's 'general viewpoint' post.

Alamace is an amazing sword and it's not difficult to obtain. But it in and of itself is not a solution to the problem as much as it is a stopgap to it.

So yes, work towards an Empyrean. It's worth the relatively low effort it takes to get it. But Sword as a weapon class still needs to be fixed.

Edited, Oct 12th 2011 5:06pm by Hyrist
#115 Oct 12 2011 at 3:20 PM Rating: Default
**
824 posts
What do you think is wrong with Sword as is, beyond the EX requirements on all the good WS? (Which I agree, those need to go)
____________________________
rdmcandie wrote:
RDM can attain an almost static 50% reduction to recast time, SCH can over shoot this for a total of 60% reduction under Alacrity (provided you are wearing loafers and keeping dark weather on yourself)

rdmcandie wrote:
MACC is a joke, any job with access to mage gear can hit close the MACC cap on legion mobs, which is why my BRD/RDM can land slow/para/blind despite having only 150 skill (from /RDM.)
#116 Oct 12 2011 at 3:21 PM Rating: Decent
Avatar
****
7,547 posts
Quote:
The numbers don't lie. Although, combining an 80-90 does inflate things. Looking at what it takes to get a 95 Empyrean. I bet you things start evening out between Relics and Empyrean as time goes on.


What? there is already nearly 5 times the amount of complete Emp weapons, Dynamis and Relics have been around over a half decade. 1 year, half decade, nearly 5 times as many, you could say it is 5 times easier to get an Emp weapon than a completed relic weapon, Especially when the major reason to get an Empy is for its badass WS, and the Aftermath (or w/e they call it now). The 95 stat increases pale in comparison to what the 80 EMP weapon gives...but you are right the numbers don't lie, getting an emp is hella easy.

Quote:
My biggest problem with Almace is that it seems to be a cop-out to regarding Sword as a weapon class's difficulty in being a truly respectable weapon class. I'll refer to this more when I finish writing up my response to RCD's 'general viewpoint' post.

Alamace is an amazing sword and it's not difficult to obtain. But it in and of itself is not a solution to the problem as much as it is a stopgap to it.


Solution to what problem? The RDM didn't have a solid sword WS (outside of DB). Now it does, and all you need to do is invest a week of time into the level 80 emp weapon, which should take no time at all. Looks like problem solved.


Quote:
So yes, work towards an Empyrean. It's worth the relatively low effort it takes to get it. But Sword as a weapon class still needs to be fixed.


What is wrong with sword as a weapon class, Evisceration > than Vorpal in and out of abyssea, so its not Vorpal that is the issue, Id say a bigger Issue is the fact RDM is missing from current daggers, I mean it would be nice to see EX WS's opened but its not overly needed with how easy CDC is to get (either emp or non emp) and the fact Evis still beats vorpal. (using a 40 DMG Twi Knife, VS a 56DMG Sash -PDT.)

I would like sang blade though, but sword is pretty good now, and when it isn't dagger is better anyway.
____________________________
HEY GOOGLE. **** OFF YOU. **** YOUR ******** SEARCH ENGINE IN ITS ******* ****** BINARY ***. ALL DAY LONG.

#117 Oct 12 2011 at 3:46 PM Rating: Excellent
Guru
Avatar
*****
11,147 posts
Suckiness of Relic/Mythic acquisition doesn't change the Empyrean situation at all. If anything, it emphasizes SE's **** poor mentality on "ultimate" weapons prior to Abyssea and why I'd personally favor them easing those requirements instead of shoving the 1500 Heavy Metal Plate stage at us to try and "balance things out" like some think they're doing to placate the Jeuno Posers.

Anyway, looking at the numbers of CDC capable weapons, there are 2546 out there as of the census. Distributing them amongst 16 servers, that's about 160 swords per server. If we want to assume 250k people are playing and split those among the servers again, that's 15625 people per server, obviously not all on at once. Roughly 1% of people on a server could maybe CDC. If we want to be liberal on job spread, 1/3rd of those will be RDMs, or ~54 of that 160. Could maybe 1/3 that again if you want to split up between JP/NA/EU. 18 people on at a time sound like much?

Now, if we were looking at numbers of 51% or higher, I might start leaning toward the standard argument as that's the beginning of majority. 80% or more of people owning one would be a better number in terms of determining standardization. Of the above numbers, we have no way of determining who's multi-boxed, PUG'd, or pooled LS resources. If I had to guess an order of success, though, I'd go LS > multi-box > PUG. And the further you move to the right in that order, the far less likely you'll have someone who can do it in a week or less.

Edited, Oct 12th 2011 5:51pm by Seriha
____________________________
Violence good. **** bad. Yay America.
#118 Oct 12 2011 at 4:04 PM Rating: Default
**
824 posts
Out of all those RDMs, how many actually bother meleeing at all, and how many of them consider themselves 'serious' about it? And from that number, how many opted to build a different Empyrean first, for whatever reason?

Furthermore, Scars was released in September, the census data was obtained in May, and it's currently October, meaning the census was based on 8 months of data, and another 5 months have passed since then; acquisition has also been made easier by changing how KIs are obtained, as well as the cap increase. So you're looking at at least a 60% increase to the number of completed Empyreans in circulation at this point at the absolute least; given how commonly I see them around and how SE has eased the process, I'd probably go so far as to say they've doubled since the census.

In other words, I find your numbers highly suspect.
____________________________
rdmcandie wrote:
RDM can attain an almost static 50% reduction to recast time, SCH can over shoot this for a total of 60% reduction under Alacrity (provided you are wearing loafers and keeping dark weather on yourself)

rdmcandie wrote:
MACC is a joke, any job with access to mage gear can hit close the MACC cap on legion mobs, which is why my BRD/RDM can land slow/para/blind despite having only 150 skill (from /RDM.)
#119 Oct 12 2011 at 4:13 PM Rating: Good
Guru
Avatar
*****
11,147 posts
Hey, I'll play along and say they doubled since census. Awesome, now 2% people per server have a CDC weapon. 78% to go.

I just hope you realize I'm evenly distributing the numbers based on numbers SE's given us. It's possible your server could have 1.66x more than another that's 0.33x the average. That's still not a high number and how someone wants to play RDM really means @#%^ all. Either the swords exist or they don't.

Edited, Oct 12th 2011 6:20pm by Seriha
____________________________
Violence good. **** bad. Yay America.
#120 Oct 12 2011 at 4:21 PM Rating: Default
**
824 posts
You're not taking into account the first paragraph though, which is the most important.

Quote:
Out of all those RDMs, how many actually bother meleeing at all, and how many of them consider themselves 'serious' about it? And from that number, how many opted to build a different Empyrean first, for whatever reason?


Also,

Quote:
That's still not a high number and how someone wants to play RDM really means @#%^ all. Either the swords exist or they don't.


This only matters if 100% of the people you are including in your denominator are melee RDMs. I leave it to you to decide if this is true or not.

Edited, Oct 12th 2011 6:30pm by LyltiaofLakshmi
____________________________
rdmcandie wrote:
RDM can attain an almost static 50% reduction to recast time, SCH can over shoot this for a total of 60% reduction under Alacrity (provided you are wearing loafers and keeping dark weather on yourself)

rdmcandie wrote:
MACC is a joke, any job with access to mage gear can hit close the MACC cap on legion mobs, which is why my BRD/RDM can land slow/para/blind despite having only 150 skill (from /RDM.)
#121 Oct 12 2011 at 4:29 PM Rating: Decent
Avatar
****
4,779 posts
rdmcandie wrote:
All right,

This convo is quickly flatlining so here goes (from a troll none the less that apparently offers nothing constructive).

This is to sum up in my own opinion with contributing elements from the community here in what RDM has/needs in its relevant areas.


I'm on board with civil discourse. However I ask that if anyone makes opposition to statements that are made, that you fully explain the entire context of your argument in their first reply, rather than draw out the conversation intentionally. We can then break down important points needed in each statement from there if needs be.

-----------------------------------------------

Now to regard things from the top. I'd like to ask, RCD, that we separate the concepts of Support and Healing. I do this because there are roles, and jobs specifically for Support that have limited healing ability, such as Corsair and Bard, and as such these functions should probably be weighed in on their own merits, even if the solutions can perhaps cross the lines between. However, I will address what I believe to be our core function first.


Enfeebling

While I'm in agreement with the bolded statement that we do need our enfeebles to land better on NM monsters, as NMs are the target of our enfeebles primarily. But we also suffer from a lack diversity and depth within our enfeebles.

Put bluntly, even if our current list of enfeebles worked to full effect on all current notorious monsters, with the exception of Gravity and Bind, it would not make the NM environment any less disposed against Red Mages. This is because the majority of our enfeebles address Auto-Attacking (with 2 spells to regard casting) and SE has decided to make the majority of difficulty center around TP moves that, aside from subbing for stun, we have no direct means to combat.

I feel this should be rectified as a first priority to any other changes to Red Mage. Having an innate way to lower the damage and/or general effectiveness of an Enemy TP move is a boost that will filter down and assist every other one of our moves, simply by proxy of not having to focus so heavily on recovery.

Beyond that, I would like to see more offensive debuffs. Ones that lower Magical Defense, and perhaps a debuff that increases critical hit damage received or critical hit chance would both be effective and synergize well with the new ability trends. These offensive debuffs can also serve as support elements while essentially bypassing the 'single/self target only' trend SE has firmly locked Red Mage into.

To wrap up this section, I believe Enfeebeling is the core answer to most of Red Mage's problems, though not all of them. Having a strong enfeebling ******* against the enemy that is both defensive and offensive can really outshine what more direct adjustments to problems brought to light in the past years. Proper enfeebling will allows us to be very versatile, and potentially devastating beyond the fodder game.

Summary:
- First Priority: Give RDM a Debuff to weaken TP attacks.
- Make current Debuffs more effective.
- Create more offensive debuffs to support damage through weakening the enemy.


----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Support

This is where I divide myself from the common perception of what "Support" is. Or, perhaps more specifically, I am in support of the Developer's approach to Red Mage's Enhancing as a means of closing the gap between itself and other classes. From this perspective I have to disagree with the concept of making all of our single target spells accession-able. However, there is a twist to this that I will explain at the end of the segment.

I did notice, however, in how we have quite a deal of support spells and functions in the way of defense and melee, but little in the ways of spells that support our other spell functions, aside from Refresh and Gain Spells. I think in here there is an opportunity to create buffs that conflict with Temper to assist our other forms of casting such as curing (As a priority) and nuking (even though nuking itself is in a good place.) These buffs would help 'close the gap' a bit in terms of being able to fill in these roles. As some brief suggestions, one that enhances cure potency (that breaks cap) and reduces cure cast time (or gives a HoT effect), or a spell that increases Magical Critical chance and Magical Critical/Magic Burst damage.

Now here is a twist. I've been listening and watching a lot when it came to desires of being a better buffer, of keeping cycles out of the concepts, and SE's hesitation to give RDM AoE/Sphere buffs and keeping their gap closer spells actually working for Red Mage specifically. But I beleive there should be some sort of comprimise.

So as a possible 99 JA or Meritable Ability, to give an ability that allows us to bestow or share our single target specific buffs (stoneskin, aquaveil, Temper(or mage equivilants) Phalanx, Enspell and Gainspell, to one targeted ally. Have the recast long enough so that we must choose a priority member to give this to, in order to prevent cycling, and have it meritable that these abilities receive a boost to their potency for their natural duration when transferred. (A seven minute superboost seemed to be too long.) Note, while the timer should be high enough to prevent spam onto multiple players, the timer, I beleive, should be low enough to maintain on one person. This is to be the ultimate assistance to a Duo Partner, or a group tank, healer, nuke, or that one important member for that moment: the ability to share a Red Mage's substantial self-growth through their magic with gives it such a spot light solo, to the most needed individual in party play.

Additional, as a possible merit to give a general "Enhancing Magic Potency" to assist our enhancing magic's strength could be a possible idea to further increase the overall effectiveness of these buffs.

This paired with the more offensive enfeebles listed in the above section should help round out our support function nicely. (Refresh and Haste already do this for us.) Granted, we won't be invited JUST for that on its own, mind you but it helps provide a more complete package.

Summary:
- Keep Self-Targets as is.
- Give new buffs that aid Magical Duties such as Curing and Nuking.
- Give a High Level or Meritable ability to give/share self buffs at a higher potency to one additional member in the paty.


------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I should note that anything below this point I consider to be a secondary role of the job. In terms of development and invite reasons, particularly in endgame, the three roles below should play second fiddle to what is offered as roles above. Not that it should be impossible for a Red Mage to say, heal effectively, but it should be considered additional 'dressing' to the meat and potatoes that is enfeebling and support functions. In situations in which enfeebling in particular isn't needed, theses secondary functions should be able to take the spotlight more. But as the difficulty of the monster increases, these functions should fade further into the background against our core.

With clarification in mind, let's continue.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Healing

I'll address this first as it seems to be a major argumentation point.

Red Mage's healing needs help, I don't believe anyone is arguing against this point. I however, disagree with the concept that Red Mage and Scholar should be a part of a greater 'healer' category. Healing as a role in FFXI has grown into a rather distributed role, especially with updates to Blue Mage, and the inclusion of Dancer. As well as the plethora of damage prevention abilities, and the planned increases to Scholar's Regen Abilities, the need is lessenning.

In terms of pecking order, I beleive future adjustments should place Red Mage as 'tied for fourth' in terms of healing potential. Behind White Mage, Scholar, and Dancer (whom I'd recommend have their Waltz timers split into two categories to facilitate this.) And tied with Blue Mage. The placing of Dancer of course is a subject for another discussion, the equivocalness with Blue Mage's healing ability being the more important point here.

Put bluntly, BLU has some powerful curing spells, that can address damage in a wide as well as relatively inexpensive cures, but difficult sustain. As a general idea, Red Mage would have the sustain, but not the AoE ability to quickly address wide areas of attack with raw cure power.

To meet this goal, after thinking on this for a while, I'm going to take a step back on my current banishment of Cure V, with a catch. Instead of say, lowering the potency of Cure V itself, instead I'd reccomend that for non WHMs the timer is increased... like, Curing Waltz V (or worse)increased.

Now note, this is keeping in mind that we have Cure IV, Fast Cast, and the aforementioned "curing magic buff" listed above helping out our curing performance, the latter to adjust this base timer down to more manageable levels. But this insures that Cure V won't be spammed as a replacement to Cure IV. Instead, players would have to intelligently make the decision whether or not the situation merits for its use.

Situations in which large amounts of AoE damage beyond what these limits are occurring should, in my view, require more curing jobs or the specialist.

NOTE; this adustment is proposed while still under the fear that this might overshadow Red Mages' primary role, and if it came to a decision between the two, I would choose the primary role strength then to this (And ask that we would be brokenly potent in enfeebling to compensate). But if both can be implemented on a level that would make RDM both invited for unique roles and reasons and remain a competent healer, I am for it. I would still prefer that more inventive measures would be made to solve this problem, but they would likely require the level of work Square Enix perhaps wouldent make.


Summary:
- Red mage should be tied with Blue Mage in curing effiency.
- Give Red Mage Cure V on a long recast timer. (Keeping in mind a Enhancing Magic spell to buff Cure recast/Potency)
- Prioritize this under enfeebling adjustments.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Nuking

I have no Red Mage specific changes (aside from the above listed boost for sake of completion.) to Nuking that I believe need to be regarded.

Rather, in the nuking field itself, I still believe that outside of Abyssea there is a bit of concern of the Damage potential over time feel compared to heavy damage dealers. This comes partially to due MP limitations, but also casting limitatons. I believe the answer to this should lie back with the dated Skillchain system.

What I would propose is that a successful magic burst grant a powerful detrimental effect to the enemy, related directly to what was burst-ed. For example, a burst-ed Paralyze should gain a Saboteur-like effect to the spell (that stacks on normal Saboteur) and that a burst-ed nuke should grant additional damage over time depending on the amount damaged in the nuke.

But these are just general ideas to increase the potency of teamwork and make the Mages' roles more potent through it.

Additional, it would be nice to see Magic Criticals more frequent and noticeable (Some sort of "Magical Crit!" notice on spells would be appreciated in this.

Summary:
- Make Skillchains and Magic Bursts more useful
- Make Magical Critical more noticable frequent, and powerful in general.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Melee


I might get a few odd glances for me placing this last, but honestly the issue is that much about RDM's melee performances and the recommendations in how to improve it is pending on what happens to Sword in the Weapon Skill updates.

To clarify my stance on Melee: That given things in the healing aspects are sufficiently covered or are of low concern, Red Mage should be capable, if not encourage to melee on fodder mobs and lesser to mid NMs so long as our primary role, enfeeblement, is done. With the adjustments above to enfeeblement and the possible WS adjustments it should be more than feasible for RDM to be a strong enough asset for them to be smacking things in all but the highly annoying, or highly difficult situations; especially if say you and your gathering of friends are plentiful on Red Mages or other curing sources.



It is my opinion that the 3 Sword jobs listed in Emperyan/Magian weapons should not have any limitations as to what weaponskills they use under that catagory, with the exception being the Job Specific Mythic Weaponskills. Furthermore, I believe that current weaponskill performance on our existing weapon skills should be improved, particularly in the matter of our Magical Weaponskills which are highly lackluster.

However, above all of this, I firmly belief that Sword users are overdue for our version of Rampage/Dancing Edge/Hexa Strike. For the new near-99 level Weapon Skills for Sword, I'd say it should be something that displays a mastery of sword usage, through a powerfully damaging Weapon Skill. Considering Sword has always been a strong Final Fantasy weapon staple I feel as if it has had a fairly weak showing in FFXI, overly much so even keeping in mind that this is an MMO.

And while CDC and Almace shows promise for the future and displays the power of the weapon itself. It feels more as a display of the weapon's strength, not of the strength of the job wielding it or the fact that Sword itself is powerful.

As far as Red Mage adjustments, there's not much new to be be said on this. I believe that Composure should scale up with level, and that there should be more gear support for the Melee aspects. But I wish to wait on specifics to this until we understand the depth of the Weapon Skill adjustments we will be receiving.

It is a current beef, however, that we are not currently on many scale and harness type sets in our current level arc. I'd like to see this changed.

A note about Dagger:
I disagree with RCD that we should be on Dagger Trials. There has always been a discrepancy between our dagger and sword uses that have always favored Dagger above Sword, and I believe SE was correct in amending that by putting RDM on Sword Magian trials and not on Dagger.

That said, I am not opposed to us receiving more powerful Dagger choices outside of Magian Trials, to keep it as a secondary weapon option for the job. This is currently lacking in the field, probably due to Magians, however I feel as if this may correct itself in the future.

Summary:
- Improve Existing Sword Weaponskills
- Give Sword Skill a powerful non-weapon specific WS.
- Put Red Mage on more Melee gear. (Where's our Scale and Harness sets?)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Wow. Long post is long. Sorry about that. Check the summaries if you'd like not to have to deal with my reasoning. Over all none of this is a shock (Except for perhaps me giving an ok to Cure V even if I put it on an obscenely long timer.)

In the end there's a lot of work that still needs to be done on Red Mage, particuarlly in the boss/HNM department. I believe though we often differ in opinions on how Red Mage should come into it's own, we all agree that we would like this job to be a stronger presence overall. If we could maintain our focus on that, instead of auguring over other issues, I have a feeling these forums could become a healthy, active environment again.

Speaking of such, when was the last time Red Mages ever shared Red Mage stories with each other? You'd think the Duelists of Vanadiel would have plenty of interesting tales to tell.





Edited, Oct 12th 2011 6:59pm by Hyrist
#122 Oct 12 2011 at 4:47 PM Rating: Excellent
Guru
Avatar
*****
11,147 posts
Quote:
This only matters if 100% of the people you are including in your denominator are melee RDMs. I leave it to you to decide if this is true or not.


What part of "1% of people on a server have CDC capable weapons" is me saying they're all melee RDMs? Okay, I broke the 160 distribution amongst RDM/PLD/BLU. Are you going to try and tell me those other jobs don't exist now? That people might not consider themselves a BLU or PLD main? While someone with an Almace might be inclined to level all 3, it's not a guarantee. I'd argue the 'serious' melee RDMs were already among the ~54 per server of the job spread based on the census data, but I'm also going to shake my head if you're trying to say the only serious melee RDM is one with an Almace, as if any and all effort prior to that point means nothing. See the past few pages if you want to start your ******** on accessibility again.

Regardless, my stance doesn't change. If you can get a CDC sword, go for it. Just don't expect everyone else to have one unless you want to call SE a bunch of liars with their own data.
____________________________
Violence good. **** bad. Yay America.
#123 Oct 12 2011 at 5:11 PM Rating: Good
Avatar
****
4,779 posts
Quote:
Regardless, my stance doesn't change. If you can get a CDC sword, go for it. Just don't expect everyone else to have one unless you want to call SE a bunch of liars with their own data.


Agreed. But this said I believe the physical effort should be made first before the conclusion is made form the player that it is beyond their grasp.

There are plenty of interesting alternative Swords out there in the game, and while not as powerful as Almace, I don't beleive these should be ignored just because the Emperyans are comparatively easy to obtain than relics are, but rather Sword's performance should be raised to make these other options passable.

You can keep CDC king, but I can't count vorpal as a good enough of a WS to merit itself in the 'high end WS' category, which means that Sword lacks one outside of Emperyans.

As someone who would like to make a FFXI hobby of collecting swords, this is disappointing.

Edited, Oct 12th 2011 7:12pm by Hyrist
#124 Oct 12 2011 at 5:22 PM Rating: Default
Avatar
****
7,547 posts

Seriha wrote:
You want to throw around that having an Empyrean weapon is standard gear.


You said this earlier in the thread, don't change tunes now because SE's numbers show that over 10% of your (arbitrary) 250K has an Emp weapon. (a value that following Lyl's logic should be approaching 16-17% of players). Hard to say what the actual values are, considering we don't know how many "live" accounts are dbox tri-box accounts with 1 main account reaping the rewards, (be it gear or gil from store accounts).

Fact is Emp weapons are nearly 5 times easier to acquire than Relics, and Over 50 times easier than Mytics, (likely even more due to time variation on how long each has been available.)

Emp weapons are easy to get, the amount that have chosen CDC is redundant all that shows is the popularity of a specific item, it does not demonstrate the ease or difficulty in getting said item.

@ Hyrist TBH I didn't read any of that, I already assume you are not in favor of changes to our enhancing role (other than more single target buffs, even though you always claim you don't want to see RDM locked into minimal amounts of spells...ie. Refresh II and Dia III.) You want to minimize the healing role.

Essentially it is melee or bust with you, which is rather ironic considering you always claimed to prioritize RDMs generalist approach.

Of course you could have also rattled off a bunch of silly ideas that are not needed. What is needed is for SE to address issues with the current situation, IE. RDM having only 2 group buffs left that can't be subbed post 96/48 (refresh II, Phalanx II), The fact our enfeebles do not work on anything relevant, The fact we are not on Daggers (which should be interchangeable with swords considering our skills in each).

Im probably close to the mark, but your post is way to long, and to be honest I don't care to read it.
____________________________
HEY GOOGLE. **** OFF YOU. **** YOUR ******** SEARCH ENGINE IN ITS ******* ****** BINARY ***. ALL DAY LONG.

#125 Oct 12 2011 at 5:27 PM Rating: Excellent
Guru
Avatar
*****
11,147 posts
Not specific to RDM, but I've been concerned with the lack of new WS gained simply by skill levels since the 80 cap. Some will say Emps were our level 85 WS, fine, but 90 and 95 were left lacking. SE not adding more when we hit 99 likely isn't to be received well, but I could also see them putting the new WS on the final phases of all magian weapons. I see this as both good and bad, since a job like RDM wouldn't have to worry about the EX restriction on a Sword WS, but it's also more than likely these WS won't be as good or better than CDC for sword, and so on down the weapon list. Then again, this absence of new WS could also be a side effect of their phantom promise to tweak WS across the board.

Quote:
You said this earlier in the thread, don't change tunes now because SE's numbers show that over 10% of your (arbitrary) 250K has an Emp weapon. (a value that following Lyl's logic should be approaching 16-17% of players). Hard to say what the actual values are, considering we don't know how many "live" accounts are dbox tri-box accounts with 1 main account reaping the rewards, (be it gear or gil from store accounts).


If you have a way of breaking down how that 10% are actually individual players and not, say, half of it being the power gamers with multiples all up in our grill saying everyone should have one, go for it. I focus on CDC because CDC pertains to RDM with regards to how some feel any RDM should have it if they want to engage a mob. The unfortunate reality, much as their favorite immolated idiot is the distributor of thruthiness, is that these people are currently rare and will continue to remain rare short of SE making some kind of drastic adjustment. What they pulled with WoE certainly didn't help those seeking Badelaire as the "easier" version.

As for the 250k, that's a conservative guess at the decline on subs based on the last 300k number I read up on. Obviously, if the number of subs get higher, the percentage of distribution will get worse. I might be more inclined to say FFXI is sitting at 150k subs these days, but 160 swords a server still isn't much, nor do we know how many completed weapons are associated with inactive/banned accounts. Edit: Not sure how valid you could call this, but as of 2010, this pegs XI around 350k users.

Edited, Oct 12th 2011 7:43pm by Seriha

Edited, Oct 12th 2011 7:57pm by Seriha
____________________________
Violence good. **** bad. Yay America.
#126 Oct 12 2011 at 5:39 PM Rating: Good
Avatar
****
4,779 posts
That is very low of you, RCD. For someone who claimed to want to have an actual conversation, instead of reading and addressing it respectfully, without preconceived notions or insults. You immediately ignore the post and generalize, disqualifying your entire previous statement in saying you wanted to have a civil conversation.

How am I supposed to act like a civil, logical person you claimed you missed, when this is the reply I receive?

Did you even notice that I made a suggestion for making Cure V usable on RDM?

Or how I listed Melee as a secondary role below BOTH enfeebling AND enhancing, and, in fact, it was listd LAST on the adjustments?

I've extended the olive branch on this hatred and disregard I receive from individuals like you more often than I believe is deserved and it is both continually and consistently slapped away.

You also make this horrible presumption that Melee is all I want to do on Red mage. Which is far from the truth. In fact, persisting on it at this point is libel and I will say this clearly.

Stop insisting that all I wish to do or all I desire for the Red Mage has to do with Melee. It is a lie, and a poor excuse to disregard my posts. If you continue to persist with lieing about me, I will be sure that the moderators are made aware of this harassment.
Reply To Thread

Colors Smileys Quote OriginalQuote Checked Help

 

Recent Visitors: 1 All times are in CST
Anonymous Guests (1)