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Accssesion and Self-Target BuffsFollow

#1 Nov 27 2007 at 9:16 PM Rating: Good
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Is anyone high enough to have concrete, confirmed information that Accssesion will make Self-Target Buffs into AoE? The ones I'm mostly concerned with are:

Phalanx, Stoneskin, Blink, En-spells, Blaze Spikes, Ice Spikes, Warp

I'm going to use what little information I have to guess that yes this will work. I'm talking of course about the Bar spells. The RDM Bar spells are self-target, single target spells. The WHM Bar-ra spells are AoE, but still self-target. This tells me that the coding SE would need to use to implement this is already being done in the game and within their parameters. I myself am nowhere near 40, but this information may help put some sub job debates to rest.

Edited, Nov 28th 2007 12:18am by DerangedBlue
#2 Nov 28 2007 at 9:33 PM Rating: Decent
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my money is on that they will not work on self casts, only on cast you can target a PT member. Group warp and reraise at lv 40, common...
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#3 Nov 28 2007 at 10:07 PM Rating: Good
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sideways wrote:
Group warp and reraise at lv 40, common...


Acession only works on WHM enhancing/healing spells, so Warp was always out of the question, and Reraisega wouldn't be until 66, which isn't too farfetched, seeing as BRD basically gets it a mere 5 levels later.

Moving along though, someone on KI apparently has done testing on it, and confirms that the Enspells, Blink, and Aquaveil all work, so it'd seem that self-target spells are not excluded. Hopefully Reraise, Stoneskin, etc... are the same way.

In case anyone wants the link to the thread on KI:

http://killingifrit.com/forums.php?m=posts&q=164446

Edited, Nov 29th 2007 12:36am by KodoReturns
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#4 Nov 29 2007 at 2:30 AM Rating: Good
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I found out something pretty interesting while testing these. First of all, yes they only work on white magic spells. This means no blaze or ice spikes, as these are black magic spells. The thing that was unexpected was the amount of hate these spells pull. Looking at kanican's page, single target enhancing spells generate about 300 points of volatile enmity. If you cast this on six people at once, it generates 1800 points of volatile enmity, which is equivalent to a provoke. This makes it somewhat dangerous to cast any of these spells near the beginning of a battle. From what I've observed, this appears to be how the hate generation works.

http://kanican.livejournal.com/

EDIT: And by the way, it works on cure spells. I did an AoE cure 1 and 2 on myself, and it worked as expected. It basically made it a curaga. The AoE radius is based on whoever you've targeted with the spell. I'm thinking this probably works with paralyna, erase, etc as well. Although, when you cast those spells, it will be like provoking the mob. Erase could generate up to a provoke and a half, if it works the way I think it does. >.>

Edited, Nov 29th 2007 7:20am by Nateypoo
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#5 Nov 29 2007 at 7:55 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
EDIT: And by the way, it works on cure spells. I did an AoE cure 1 and 2 on myself, and it worked as expected. It basically made it a curaga. The AoE radius is based on whoever you've targeted with the spell. I'm thinking this probably works with paralyna, erase, etc as well. Although, when you cast those spells, it will be like provoking the mob. Erase could generate up to a provoke and a half, if it works the way I think it does. >.>


I'm not sure about erase generating so much hate. Whms for a while now have been able to use divine seal to do aoe status cures and have been able to cast them during battle without any problems. I have a feeling the hate gain isn't multiplied when you aoe a single target spell(with the exception of cure because that hate is based on hp cured). It may increase the hate over casting it single target but I just don't think it's as much as a flat hate x 6.
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#6 Nov 29 2007 at 8:23 AM Rating: Decent
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You're right, I shouldn't assume it's precisely 6x. I'm not sure how much it is, I just know it's significant. A four person regen was enough to reliably pull hate off a dancer provoke; I don't how much weaker their provokes are though. I'm testing it again vs regular provoke and hate seems to be holding most of the time. Although, I did pull hate at the beginning of a fight with a five person regen. The ninja got two hits in, and the mob took one shadow. Hate went right back to him after he got another hit in. I don't know how to quantify it, but it's a lot.

It's also proportional to the spell used. Using protect with the AoE ability generated very little hate. Protect is only a 80 VE skill, so this makes sense. AoE cures seemed comparable in hate to a similar strength curaga.

Edited, Nov 29th 2007 11:45am by Nateypoo
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#7 Nov 29 2007 at 9:27 AM Rating: Good
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Personally I'm interested in the enspell damage calculations. Is there any evidence to say that the resistance is calculated off of each individuals enhancing skill or is it from the SCH's enhancing skill?
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#8 Nov 29 2007 at 9:40 AM Rating: Good
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Magusalley wrote:
Personally I'm interested in the enspell damage calculations. Is there any evidence to say that the resistance is calculated off of each individuals enhancing skill or is it from the SCH's enhancing skill?


We definately need to test this to see if it works or not cause en-ga on dual wielding, multiattacking melees would be quite powerful. Even at a reduced effect like +10 damage at 75 it'd still be very nice on fast melees.
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#9 Nov 29 2007 at 1:46 PM Rating: Decent
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My understanding of Enspell damage is that your base damage is calculated at the time of casting based on your enhancing skill and your enspell accuracy is decided at the time of each hit based on the enhancing skill of the person with the enspell buff. If you're a RDM these numbers are the same, if you're say a WAR being buffed by Rumuh's rolling thunder(who's enhancing skill is the same as SMN skill? (is this correct?)), you're enspell accuracy is a whopping 0.

I imagine that enspell accuracy will make it prohibitive to give party enspells.
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#10 Nov 29 2007 at 2:09 PM Rating: Good
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The reason I ask is because, I personally have not seen any formal testing on it. I've only seen arguments based on the SMN case. However, the one anecdote I've seen on BG suggests something different.

http://www.bluegartrls.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=26403&p=817233&hilit=scholar+enspell#p817233

Quote:
I tried this today in Garlaige Citadel, but soon had to stop because it was overwriting the DNC's Sambas. However, against Beetles, Enaero was doing mostly 1 damage, although I saw 2-3 hits for 10 damage. There were 2 BLU, a DRK, and a DNC meleeing. Against bats every single hit did an additional 5 damage. I'm not sure if it's possible to draw any conclusions from this but a friend and I are going to do some tests tomorrow to try to narrow it down.


Please note that DRK, BLU and DNC do not have an enhancing skill level.
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#11 Nov 29 2007 at 2:44 PM Rating: Good
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The 5 damage does interest me a bit. It's certainly a reduced effect from what en's would do at that level but it's not entirely abyssmal. Keep in mind even a rdm main will get resists on en's on an IT mob(the type of resist where it almost seems like every hit is reduced in damage). Test is obviously too limited to draw conclusions but en's being useful can't be ruled out at this point either.
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#12 Nov 29 2007 at 3:07 PM Rating: Decent
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dont they have one that works on BLM spells as well? what about seeing aoe gravity at fanfest? speaking of fanfest didnt someone say sch could use refresh as well?
#13 Nov 29 2007 at 3:34 PM Rating: Good
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DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
dont they have one that works on BLM spells as well? what about seeing aoe gravity at fanfest? speaking of fanfest didnt someone say sch could use refresh as well?


Accession - Works on WHM enhancing and WHM healing.
Manifestation - Works on BLM enfeebling.

Yes, Gravity has been confirmed to work with Manifestation. Outside of Mage's Ballad from /BRD, we cannot access any form of Refresh right now.
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#14 Nov 29 2007 at 3:39 PM Rating: Decent
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Magusalley wrote:
The reason I ask is because, I personally have not seen any formal testing on it. I've only seen arguments based on the SMN case. However, the one anecdote I've seen on BG suggests something different.

http://www.bluegartrls.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=26403&p=817233&hilit=scholar+enspell#p817233

Quote:
I tried this today in Garlaige Citadel, but soon had to stop because it was overwriting the DNC's Sambas. However, against Beetles, Enaero was doing mostly 1 damage, although I saw 2-3 hits for 10 damage. There were 2 BLU, a DRK, and a DNC meleeing. Against bats every single hit did an additional 5 damage. I'm not sure if it's possible to draw any conclusions from this but a friend and I are going to do some tests tomorrow to try to narrow it down.


Please note that DRK, BLU and DNC do not have an enhancing skill level.


Um... forgive me if i'm wrong, but wouldn't it be more effective to test out Enblizzard-ga on the beetles instead of enaero? (i know the quote if from BG) That would give us a better summation of how good the enspells could be.
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#15 Nov 29 2007 at 4:08 PM Rating: Good
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>.> Yeah the post below that one notes that the reason this person was seeing 1's on beetles is because they're strong against wind. Bats, however, are weak to wind and they were getting consistent +5 damage (this being the reason I posted it).

So basically you're seeing +5 Damage with the proper enspell applied for a level 40SCH/20RDM.

So the damage cap should be (and I believe SCH has a B+ in enhancing after the JA?):

(sqrt(enhancing skill) - 1) = (sqrt(118) - 1) = 10.8 - 1 = 9.8 => 10

Which is what the person reports as being the highest they saw. Still this is a good reason to test Enspellga damage with SCH. Most peopel would tell you that with an SMN this value, for each hit would be 0.


Edited, Nov 29th 2007 7:12pm by Magusalley
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#16 Nov 29 2007 at 5:18 PM Rating: Decent
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A RDM in my Linkshell informed me that when he had en-fire activated, it overrode the Dancer's Samba effect on himself - has this possible setback been confirmed or addressed yet?
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#17 Nov 29 2007 at 5:43 PM Rating: Good
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Yep, other additional effects override the samba effect. I've is you have a blind knife and the blind effects procs, it will override the samba effect.
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Jinte wrote:
Seriously, who wouldn't wanna convert an Icemaker into a cooler for nice cold drinks during a party?
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