Sublimation findingsFollow

Here's some recap of what we already know (copy paste of ffxiclopedia):

* Stores MP while reducing HP. The effect ends once the MP limit is reached, HP is too low, or you are attacked. Stored MP is gained when the ability is reactivated.
* Obtained: Scholar Level 35
* Recast Time: 30 seconds
* Duration (Charging): Until MP limit is met
* Duration (Charged): 2 hours
* Your character’s HP will slowly decrease while storing MP and you will be unable to enter healing mode or log out while this ability is in effect.
* The MP limit is 25% of your max HP (before applying "Converts HP -> MP gear").
* This effect persists when changing zones.
* Enhanced by Scholar's Mortarboard.
* Refresh effects from food or the Red Mage spell will not take effect while Sublimation is charging.

So now to the experimental stuff:
We all know that Sublimation is ticking away at 2hp/tick till it drained 25% of your max hp. This is actually only half the truth.
While Sublimation is charging ANY physical damage you take counts toward the 25% hp for Sublimation.
But the MP restored is 25% of your current HP, not your max HP.

I happend to notice that when i just applied a fresh Sublimation, and gravity wore off at the wrong time and i took quite the beating, and after less than 20 seconds my Sublimation was charged full. Cured me to full and used it and got the full effect.

Whoa, whoa, whoa! Wait a second. So what you're saying is that I (RDM/SCH) can pop Sublimation, pop Convert (instantly charging Sublimation), Cure to full, Pop Sublimation, and it will recharge all of the MP I spent curing myself?

What about -HP/+MP gear? Does this mean that someone with 1000HP and a Zenith set could pop Sublimation, macro 5 pieces of Zenith in and out (-50HP/+50MP each) to reduce HP by 25%, repop Sublimation, and get a full effect Sublimation ( in this case, 250MP) in a matter of seconds every 2 minutes? If so, *evil grin*.

I just posted the above questions in the RDM forum, where RDMs far better equipped than I am will hopefully test this. I'll post findings in this thread after the tests are run.

Mood: Excited

But if the OP in this thread is telling the truth (I don't see why anyone would lie about something so easily verified/disproved), then that's just SE trying to throw us off the scent. Or it's a bug that's working in our favor.

Thanks, I'm looking forward to hearing your results!

Alright, so here's what I did.

I went out to Meriphataud Mountains [S] and used Sublimation, then cast Dia on a Lizard. I let him beat on me. Sublimation kept ticking while I was taking damage. I took about 444 damage and then it said my store was full. I Cured myself to drop my MP down to about 350, used Sublimation, and I got 93MP back.

I'm guessing that it stopped because my HP had reached a certain level. For the next lizard, I put Regen II on myself to keep me from dropping too low. 631 damage from the lizard before Sublimation went to fully stored. It filled in the time Sublimation normally takes to fill.

Sublimation seems glitched in that it doesn't drop when you are attacked, but the other two stop conditions do work.

Oh, whoops.

The second time gave me the normal MP of a fully charged Sublimation at the normal speed. Which, for me, is 261.

Edited, Mar 11th 2008 1:56pm by Tidane

Campaign ending, death, and job changes kill Sublimation.

Edited, Mar 11th 2008 2:05pm by Tidane

I can confirm that Refresh cannot be applied to someone with Sublimation active.
A RDM in my pt tried to Refresh me twice but it had no effect, and I had Sublimation on.

yeah refresh can not be used with sublimation. It is verified with other people. You can use Regen with sublimation so that you dont lose HP - but you will still get full benefit of sublimation.

Also, once sublimation has completed the MP store, you CAN rest. So while it is storing, you can not rest, but once it has finished, you can

But they forgot to make Ballad and Evoker's Roll have no effect? :/

Because mp refresh is the only way they can buff a mage?

If they made this stack with refresh then RDM would be stuck in the healing roll forever. I see this as more of an attempt to help WHM and SCH in a party situation.

I'm glad this doesn't stack with refresh.

I agree, all or none.

"all or none" uhh no, use yagudo drink, and try and stack it with refresh, then, try and stack it with ballad. Ballad and evokers are more powerful, because their jobs are more specialized, they cant heal without subs, they cant do much else.

Just out of curiosity, does sublimation stack with juice?

Yeah, that's why I asked^^ Should be checked though.

While that's true, there are other, better, ways of accomplishing the same effect, while allowing Refresh and Sublimation to stack. One suggestion I made is having Convert and Sublimation reset each other's timers, since they're both JAs with similar effects, and no RDM would ever use Sublimation in that case, because it's not worth giving up Convert for it, by any stretch of the imagination. I'll admit, this is SE we're talking about, but still, there are other ways of accomplishing the same end without making Refresh and Sublimation incompatible.

An unarmored SMN gets 240mp/5 minutes from Siphon. The correct number without gear should be 5.4MP.

Question for the SCH to clarify:

I see "current Max HP" as the limit of sublimation. Does that max hp gear have to be on the full time, or just on before the limit is reached?

Restated: if you start sublimation at 1000 hp, drop to 800 hp for a second, then get back to 1000 hp, will the mp returned be 200 or 250? How about if you keep at 1000hp until the limit is reached and then drop to 800?

It sounds to me like sublimation checks for the limit every tic.

brd/sch with Ghorn: 9/tic

eitherway, you havn't included gear, which outside of pld+drk (and technically war i guess >.>) rdm is onry job that can use 2 auto refresh pieces at once.

Saw that, my question is is *little* different. I picked hp values 25% apart, which is probably a bad example, let me change them

1st question, with regen active:
You start at 1000hp for 2 minutes, Sublimation fills to 80/250.
You switch to 840hp for 2 minutes, Sublimation fills to 160/210. (staying at 1000hp, it'd be at 160/250)
You switch back to 1000hp until full. Is "current max hp" 1000, or 840?

The total at deactivation is either at the limit or the same for both. Unless Miltani clarifies that sublimation hit its limit after changing back to the higher HP total, we can't be sure which is happening. Clearly if mp returned is only 210, the correct limit is "lowest max HP." If the amount returned is 250, the correct limit is "current max HP." Clearer?

2nd question:

1000 hp until Sublimation hits the limit of 250hp. It no longer is filling and is no longer changing. Is it necessary to keep +hp on?

It looks like the only way everyone can be right is if every tic Sublimation checks whether to shut off or not. This actually behaves a lot like campaign exp for heals/damage/buffs. At the end, you get whatever value is stored. This second question is to address whether these checks continue after hitting the cap. Miltani's first sentence talks about "during," and I am asking about after.

In the BRD case they don't really have much else to offer mages. Unless you wanted INT or MND or possibly some bar-spell. Besides BRD can't refresh PLDs as easily as RDMs so it evens out. RDM is now still the best frontline refresher, and BRD still is a good mage refresher.

Of course the exception is if you have a melee with SCH sub, but how often will you run into that? BLU/SCH melee? DRK/SCH melee? PLD/SCH tank?

Yesterday I was ready to swear off Sublimation at level 35 as worthless. Last night I figured out how to use it to my advantage.

I'm solo'ing Gob pets in Zitah right now, SCH/NIN, and I couldn't figure out how to add Sublimation to my rhythmn. But this is what I do now, and it works for me (lolElvaan):

1. apply buffs, food, etc. When ready activate Sublimation, and then Tonko.
2. Find pet, kill pet, reapply Utusemi, activate Sublimation a second time.
3. Rest
4. When ready, activate Sublimation, Tonko, and repeat.

I generally get about 40MP in the time it takes to kill EM leeches, and between 60-80MP for Toughs. My spell order goes Alactiry+StoneII, Drain, StoneII, Blizzard, Thunder, then if it's still alive, Bliz, Thunder, or Fire until dead.

I expect to take 3-5 hits from the pet, but they aren't hard hits, and rarely land me in the yellow unless Drain is resisted. Between Drain and resting, I get enough HP to continue on. Previously, I'd have to use a Dark Arts Regen before taking a knee, and that extra 18 MP was an extra resting tic, which is important when you're basing chain 2s and 3s off pet resummons. Last night I found myself ready 10-20 seconds before the Goblin was.

It was very rewarding, and if anyone is still in doubt about using Sublimation in a solo setting, I hope this shines some light on your own options.

5K to 37 ^^ Do we have a ding thread?

if rdm wants to use sublimation, they can activate it on the way to camp but if they try to refresh themselves it wont do anything(you will get a no effect message). so rdm otw to camp with a full store of mp can buff then get the mp back with sublimation, then start their refresh cycle.

im not sure what your point with convert it but it does not act like sublimation in the fact it stores mp. convert will not speed up sublimation(nothing will except AF head). when u activate sublimation to get your mp, your hp doesnt drop. i hope this clears up w/e you were having questions with.